Do you believe being a progressive means also advocating your lifestyle choices to others?

[RiverStone]

I had to really think about how to word this question.

DU rocks and I have really enjoyed the spirited banter and debate we share, even as most of us do so from a position left of center.

Many of us have strong values and ideas around how we live our lives and how those choices impact the environment, personal freedoms of choice, separation of church and state, racial harmony, workers rights, and generally living in a more sane and compassionate planet.

Yet as soon as someone "shoulds" anything, threads can get nasty. Examples include: house size, car size, smoking preference, and TV watching --- to name just a few. I was pitched lots of shit a while back (mixed with lots of agreement) when I started a thread suggesting that driving an SUV is not compatible with environmental ethics. Please, lets not go there - I mention it only to point to what I learned:

That even in a place as wonderfully diverse and eclectic as DU, it is far better to walk my talk rather than advocate how somebody else SHOULD walk their life...even if that choice is a progressive, liberal, environmentally ethical, sexually liberating one! There is a line between personal choices and political ones; and sometimes that line gets blurry.

We can all agree that waterboarding is torture and I will shout out that this is wrong! But bring up how nasty smoking is and.....all hell breaks lose!

I'm curious, in your personal view - do you believe being a progressive includes advocating a best way to live which, if incorporated by others, would make your street (or our planet) a healthier place to live? Can you do that without getting personal?

By the way, I do not believe there is a right answer --- I'm just interested in your answer! :hi:

[Taverner]

1. Show don't tell

Something I live by, or TRY to

I'm not always the best at it

[The_Commonist]

2. Advocating? Sure...

Imposing? No way!

[lunatica]

3. Live and let live and show by example

Or have that unheard of activity of actually conversing about ideas. Tolerance of differing ideas is a good practice. If you viscerally don't like what others espouse then leave them to their beliefs.

[GodlessBiker]

4. Yes, the best advocacy is living your life as you are.

[kestrel91316]

5. "Should" isn't advocating, it's dictating. And it has nothing to do with

being progressive or conservative. Assholes exist in both camps.

[KittyWampus]

10. no, "must" is dictating. "Should" simply puts a moral imperative on something. Humans SHOULD

recycle their waste.

[Oregone]

6. No. Ive progressively deduced that I should slaughter any infidels who disagree

Oh, and this is the only right answer.

[IntravenousDemilo]

7. Think of it as advertising.

Buy this is not much different from do that. Each little "should" is like a little commercial for one's particular worldview. If you don't like it, change the channel. If you are intrigued, keep watching.

I would expand on that, but you probably could too.

[FredStembottom]

8. Advocating is vital.

As we all know so well here that so much (but not all IMHO) of Conservative thought can only stand in a vacuum. Specifically a media vacuum. So we all need to be advocating just to have our ideas seen to exist!

But beware the "shoulds" which I expect have a lot to do with exhibiting a group identity. So few of us naturally fit any group identity and I am always strongly in favor of not trying to fit - let's just discuss an issue at a time.

[RiverStone]

11. Effective advocating without "shoulding" is an art form

And the better we get at at, the easier it is for others to hear what we are saying.

And when threads get heated, it is very easy to drift into "should" land - and it can be without using the word itself. There are many implications that are good stand-ins.

Consider the question a good one for a debate coach! :)

[FredStembottom]

16. Not only an art-form.... but difficult!

:blush: My worst area for "having difficulty" with this is music.
I get so discouraged and enraged at the schlock that triumphs while others in the shadows do the greatest music imaginable - and die poor.

AAAAAArrgh! Hold me back!

[RiverStone]

19. Restraint is probably wise most of the time....

Yet on choice occasions it is healthy to just say "fuck it" and GO FOR IT!!!

Even as the one posing the philosophical OP question, I recall Peter Finch shouting out --- "I'm Mad as Hell and I'm Not Going To Take It Anymore!"

See the movie Network.

We are passionate after all in our beliefs. :hi:

But most of the time, I'm working at keeping the shoulds out of the discussion.

[laylah]

26. One of my favorite

sayings is "DO NOT SHOULD ON ME"! We can advocate for what we believe in without pushing the agenda. JMVHO

[Winterblues]

9. Yes. It is incumbant upon everyone to strive for peace and justice.

I feel to have a strong and vibrant community/country we must put forth our best ideas for how we should manage our resources and preserve peace and harmony. Just because we put forth our ideas does not mean they will become Law or even Regulation but at least you make an honest effort. The best way for evil (tobacco) to survive is for good men to do nothing.. I personally feel tobacco is one of the most evil things ever to exist in our country. Almost a half million people a year die from tobacco related causes and all are preventable. If that isn't evil I don't know the meaning of the word. We are worried about Terrorist "evil" that caused the death of 3000 people in an eight year period. I mean really.....Is America truly brain dead?

[RiverStone]

14. I agree with you on the tobacco! But....

...if you have been around DU for a while, smoking (and John Edwards haircut) threads are almost 100% guaranteed to get real nasty.

I could easily rant on regarding my position on smoking in public spaces, but beware the lurking "shoulds" because they do cause problems.

Of course, we "should" on our children all the time --- regarding right and wrong. Be we are all grown up here....or not. :eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. Being A Progressive Does Not Equal Being An Irrational Zealot Closed Minded Noselifter.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. Yes, we all know you're not a progressive, but it's nice that you admit it so candidly.

(If you can retort in the "I know you are but what am I" fashion, so do I.)

[Cerridwen]

13. I think authoritarianism and paternal/maternalism look ugly

regardless of who displays them.

Banning, "should"ing, legislating, or any other form of "codifying" always carries the dual-edged blade and the "law of unintended consequences."

An example: A friend of mine studied for and received her Masters of (in?) Social Work (MSW). She was horrified to read that during the early years of what would become Nazi Germany, social workers were some of the first to "embrace" and "enforce" Nazi policies pertaining to "correct social behavior." I had studied some of the early US reform movement in which I had read much of the same; "reformers," whose definition of "correct" and "right" were used to define and legislate "acceptable" behavior for "lesser" peoples. Look to the more recent, "Welfare Reform," as another indicator of holding people to standards as defined by the dominant culture and that disregard external influences on said people.

[derby378]

15. Quiet advocation is sometimes the best

I try to carry a Sigg bottle with me when at work, on the road, etc. I fill it every chance I get instead of using a plastic cup from the fountain drink station. I've noticed that a few other people at work are starting to do the same thing, too. Is my use of a Sigg planting seeds in their heads? Maybe not, but then again, maybe.

[dysfunctional press]

17. nope. to each their own.

nt

[T Wolf]

18. Maybe there are some here who do NOT think that waterboarding is torture. I would not be

surprised.

After all, there are some DUers who think that being gay is a sin.

There are some Duers who think that abortion is wrong and should be outlawed in all cases.

There are some Duers who ... pick you own issue.

I would say that there are NO universally-held beliefs among members on this site.

As in everything, it depends on whose ox is being gored.

[RiverStone]

20. Good point

Damn, another assumption (per waterboarding).

[stray cat]

21. I think some members of the left and right are equally dogmatic just on different sides of the fence

[JHB]

22. Advocating? Or Scolding/Nagging/Holier-than-thou-ing, etc.?

There are some people (in every ideology) who can't tell the difference.

[11 Bravo]

23. You can advocate your ass off. Just don't try to make your opinion ...

the law of the land.

[cobalt1999]

24. Advocating your lifestyle means you've judged your lifestyle is better than someone elses

Rarely will one person's choices apply across the board to someone else.

Better to advocate some general principles such as "We should all try to reduce our impact on the environment"

How someone changes their lifestyle to live that principle and how far they take it CANNOT be advocated.

For example your SUV example. That's a HOW. One person may choose to drive a hybrid, one person may choose to do without central AC, one person may choose to give up meat, one person may choose to install solar panels, etc.

The principles are fine, advocating specific HOW's crosses the line.