Do we have any DUers with "non-Western" given names, who choose to go by a more "common" name?

[Skinner]

If so, I'm curious what you think of DUers referring to Bobby Jindal by his given name "Piyush" instead of his preferred name "Bobby"?

And how would you feel if someone (particularly someone you don't know very well, and who is known to have some sort of disagreement with you) insisted on calling you by your given name, instead of the name you have chosen for yourself for your everyday life? Has this happened to you?

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

1. K&R

Thanks for addressing this trend civilly.

[Numba6]

497. his bobby is a misnomer cause he

he ain't a bobby, he's the same old dick

he ain't a bobby, he's the same old dick

Not this:



This:

[Brazenly Liberal]

2. K&R

[slackmaster]

3. No, the kids just called me "Kraut" and "Nazi"

Because of my German surname.

Mocking people because of traits over which they have no control constitutes juvenile douchebaggery.

Racist juvenile douchebaggery is somewhat more contemptable than plain old juvenile douchebaggery, but it's all douchebaggery to me.

[radfringe]

13. teachers always stumbled over my name in school

people still mess it up, and the mispellings are a sight to see

that being said - it didn't make me go out and change my name to Marcia

My name is my name, I'm proud of my german-italian background.

[Number23]

369. Good post.

My name is my name, I'm proud of my german-italian background.

Good for you.

[jeff30997]

386. I guess I just learned something new today.

So radfringe is a german-italian name? :P Just kidding.

Love ya.:)

[pipi_k]

104. Oh god, I remember...

the first few years of school, starting with Kindergarten.

There was this nasty little boy named Eugene who called me "ni**er-lips" all the time.

I was horrified and hurt beyond belief (when I learned what it meant).

I don't think I had/have lips that are bigger than anyone else's, and certainly aren't all that large nowadays when compared to, say, Angelina Jolie's lips. But this kid decided that I had extremely large lips, and even though I'm as Caucasian as they come, he called me a terribly racist name.

Where does a five or six year old kid learn such things? At home, probably.

That's what's really sad...

[psychmommy]

189. were you horrified because the bully said you had lips like

black people? i find full lips attractive and find you being horrified and hurt a little curious.

[pnwmom]

202. Get real. Any child would be hurt by the term n*-lips,

simply because the term was MEANT to hurt.

[pipi_k]

233. I was in Kindergarten the first time it happened

I didn't know anything about racism at the age of five.

I was horrified and hurt, number one, because the way he said it wasn't exactly nice. Even at five, I knew a nasty sneer when I saw one.

Afterward, when I found out what it meant, I felt like he was actually calling ME that nasty name. Because, you know, little kids have trouble separating their physical attributes from the whole of themselves.


Now that I'm older I CAN separate myself from the incident. I also happen to think that very full lips are beautiful. But I think he was probably overstating his case a bit, since my lips really weren't, and are not now, all that big.

[Ecumenist]

I understand what the poster went through because of the fact

I grew up in a time when I was called bubble lips by other black folks. Things have changed so radically that now I have had people coming up to me and asking me who my plastic surgeon is. It wasn't that long ago either. I just made 45 last month. Re the name thing, I often use my maiden name becuase my maried name is a Czech name that is hard for people to spell, let alone pronounce.

[psychmommy]

493. this is an example of institutional racism.

where black attributes=ugly. nappy hair=ugly. we do this in our own communities. but, it is a part of what the general culture teaches about all things black. well i have big lips and nappy hair and i see the beauty in them. nowadays folks are getting surgery and injections and risking skin cancer to like us.

[Confusious]

324. At that age,

kids pointing out any flaw in another is a "death" sentence. You get stuck with it, and everybody remembers it.

[slackmaster]

263. That was the expression people used for putting excessive saliva on a shared smokable item

When I was a teenager.

[Tunkamerica]

389. my dad was called that in highschool

weird

or at least someone wrote it in his year book...

[Mira]

271. I'm called Femi Nazi behind my back for my German surname

and my gender (by racist juvenile Limbaugh loving ditto head douchebags)
I know how you feel and agree with your assessment while laughing my head off.

[dmr]

291. Same sad problem for me even though dad & uncles fought the Germans w/their dads & uncles

It was confusing & hurtful for me as a little kid; but the worse were the kids cruelly jumping all over me when I did the Sign of the Cross before & after the Lord's Pray each morning, and sometimes afternoons, too, in school. I am a firm believer in the separation of Church and State. I was thankful for the Supreme Court ruling; and to my family's dismay as a young girl, I was appreciative and supportive of Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

Those experiences are the foundation of my liberalism today. I always try to put my feet in other's shoes. It'll eat at me if I don't. I've raised my son to do the same.

How would you feel if ... ?

When I briefly logged on last night and saw the use of Jindal's given name, I knew those who did that have either forgotten, or never had cruel personal experiences.

Bobby Jindal said a lot of stupid things last night. His delivery was contrived. There is much to criticize about his policies and thought processes, but to attack him on a personal basis is petty and wrong.

Edit: I meant to also thank Skinner for addressing this issue. It is always good to have a learning moment. Sometimes we don't understand that we hold these ignorances until it is pointed out to us. It's these 'whack-myself-on-the-head-moments' where we learn how what we say may hurt other people - and I know of no liberal who would want that.

Thank you Skinner.

[inna]

352. +1 to Slackmaster!

<<Mocking people because of traits over which they have no control constitutes juvenile douchebaggery.

Racist juvenile douchebaggery is somewhat more contemptable than plain old juvenile douchebaggery, but it's all douchebaggery to me.>>



exactly.

[saltpoint]

4. It's important to include "...and who harbor intense political ambitions"

to your question.

[Marrah_G]

11. Not really since many change to a more western name when entering elementary school.

[saltpoint]

24. I get that, but those elementary school kids aren't runnng for president,

or more accurately, are not positioning themselves at the point of admission to that school to be a major spokesperson for a major political party.

Thus, my thought on the supplemental phrase.

[Marrah_G]

54. But he had no political aspirations when he made that choice.

[onenote]

267. was he running for president when he was four?

Cause that's when he adopted "Bobby" as his westernized name

[saltpoint]

361. So his family legend goes, yes. We're given to believe it as if

it was absolutely and inarguably true.

There are other possible versions.

The 4-year olds you reference must have been the audience he was speaking to. It had a real coloring-book -level feel to it, that speech.

[onenote]

374. you have any evidence to the contrary

because if you don't, you sound exactly like a birther.

[saltpoint]

375. You're free to think there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq

if you choose to.

I'm not into Republican folklore.

[onenote]

384. you're not into republican forklore -- just republican way of thinking

nice bit of bullshit about wmds

[saltpoint]

385. I think the bullshit in question is Bush's, and Cheney's, etc.

But folklore or that kind might indeed require a forklore to pitch it.

[onenote]

441. suggesting that I believed bush and cheney's bullshit is what was bullshit by you

[Richardo]

15. Disagree

What does that have to do with honoring someone's preferences on how they like to be addressed?

[saltpoint]

451. It splices the distractible mind, doesn't it. If one didn't know any

better, one might conclude that Republicans are the source of more than one problem.

[Richardo]

460. Your Random Response Generator™ is working perfectly

Kudos!

[tavalon]

38. No not really

This is about the motives of the one's who are making fun of Gov. Jindal's name not about him.

[saltpoint]

No one knew Jindal's name until Jindal became a public figure.

It was Jindal who took Bobby Brady's name.

[tavalon]

51. I think I missed your point

[Richardo]

73. I'm not sure he has one.

[saltpoint]

348. You're quite right to think so, Richardo.

This makes it easier for you to dismiss the range of issues at hand as well.

[notadmblnd]

342. I haven't seen anyone make fun of his name.

I've seen them use his real name and make fun of the fact that the he appears to be ashamed to use it. I've always hated that people call me Cathy(and the "is that with a K or a C?" that goes along with it), My name is Catherine. I simply hate Cathy, I don't know why, but I hate it. I wanted to be a Kitty or a Kate. However, these day most people just call me Bitch.

[cherokeeprogressive]

89. Should be amended to "FOUR YEAR OLDS who harbor intense political ambitions". n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

213. So what?

What does that have to do with respecting the way he chooses to self-indentify?

[Posteritatis]

241. No it isn't. (nt)

[Hepburn]

5. I have an odd, very odd, first name....

...and I use it. People just have learned to say it correctly. I am who I am not because I have a different name or because I have given myself a nick.

Jindal is stretching, IMO, to be American when there is NOTHING wrong about a foreign background. I am proud of my foreign grandparents. All four of them overcame hardships to come to America and make a better life for themselves and their children and grandchildren. To me ~~ having an ethnic background is a wonderful addition to one's life.

JMHO

[Seeking Serenity]

7. I'm not aware that he's asserted that there's anything "wrong" about a foreign background.

Anybody got a quote on that?

[Hepburn]

32. My point is that Americanizing things is often to hide a foreign background.

My grandmother was horrified over her pieced ears because to her it seemed foreign. She would wear her hair to cover the holes in her earlobes ~~ her ears were pieced when she was a baby. She was born in 1904 in Europe. Because of this, she was totally uptight about me or my mother piercing our ears. Soooo...to honor her request ~~ and she has been dead for about 30 years now, I never pierced my ears and my mother, who is now also deceased, never pierced hers.

So...it is NOT just a name thing. If you do not have a foreign background, maybe it is hard to explain about the idea of being "Americanized." Each person who has a close tie to a foreign county in his/her background deals with it differently. To some people, it is of no consequence and to others, it is a mega big deal ~~ either in a good way or a bad way.

To me, I am mega proud of my foreign background and love to share this with others. Maybe that is why I have such unusual friends from so many different backgrounds and places ~~ my background has made me very interested in how others see things.

[Seeking Serenity]

55. I guess it all goes to intent.

Is one doing so in an effort to hide a foreign background (with the implication of shame because of it), or is one wanting to become more adoptive of his new home?

I see the former as a negative, but the latter as a non-negative.

[dkf]

That is totally it!

There is only passion against having your non-Americanized name used if there is something to be ashamed about it.

Thanks for nailing down what is bothering me so much.

[Seeking Serenity]

94. But we, as non-mind-readers, will never know Jindal's intent.

Was it the former or was it the latter?

[dkf]

152. If we know the intent then we know a lot more about him.

But I'm not sure we will need to spend the energy figuring this out. He kind of blew his chances last night.

[Seeking Serenity]

158. I wouldn't hang one's future political ambitions or chances for success on one speech.

Otherwise, Gov. Clinton would never have recovered from that dreadful (by Democrat accounts) 1988 DNC convention speech. By the end, the delegates were actually booing him and catcalling for him to shut up.

[The Wizard]

395. Bill Clinton, born William Bltyhe

And Gerald Ford born Leslie King, and Ulysses Grant born Hiram Grant. Clinton and Ford were both adopted but Grant didn't think the initials HUG were suitable for a military leader. He added the S for effect.
When are the Republicans just going to trot out someone named Adolf? If they do, I'll try to control myself. Not many people using the name Adolf anymore, especially those trying to get elected.

[wickerwoman]

180. How many people here have a problem with Freddie "Farrokh Bulsara" Mercury

from Bombay who changed his name when he went to school and spent most of the rest of his life trying to pass as a white European?

Who would insist on calling him "Farrokh" to his face when "Freddie himself always played down his Indian origins. In the few interviews he gave, he remained deliberately unclear about them." " Bulsara was a name he had buried. He never wanted to talk about any period in his life before he became Freddie Mercury, and everything about Freddie Mercury was a self-constructed thing"?

People have a right to try to reinvent themselves by whatever criteria they see fit without people making offensive assumptions about the motivations behind it. How many people would insist on calling transsexuals by their birth name after they were asked to call the person something else? And how would refusing to do so not constitute an act of tremendous disrespect?

[sledgehammer]

191. Agreed, and an interesting link for you...

Time Magazine used his birth name when honoring him as an Asian hero of the last 60 years. Perhaps it was to make the connection that he was Asian.

http://www.time.com/time/asia/2006/heroes/at_bulsara.html

[OnyxCollie]

204. How many people have a problem with Ted "Tadeusz W&#322;adys&#322;aw Konopka" Knight?

Although he may have changed his name because no one would know how to pronounce it, not to cover up his ethnicity.

On edit: See! Even the Internets can't pronounce it.

[wickerwoman]

219. Likewise Martin "Ramon Gerardo Antonio Estevez" Sheen

"Sheen adopted his stage name in honor of the Catholic archbishop and theologian, Fulton J. Sheen."

How many people here would insist on calling him Ramon to his face? And what possible motivation would there be other than to highlight his "otherness" or to call him out for selling out his ethnic heritage on the assumption that the only reason anyone could possibly want to change their birth name is because they are ashamed of their background.

[Sebastian Doyle]

245. Hell, even his own kids couldn't make up their minds on that one!

Carlos (Charlie) went with the stage name, Emilio didn't.

[Autumn Colors]

252. As well as (Sir) Ben "Krishna Bhanji" Kingsley

Half Indian and half English. His father's ancestors were also from Gujarat, but his father was raised in Zanzibar, Tanzania, where his grandfather was a well-known spice trader. It was his father who advised him to choose a western sounding stage name or he'd have trouble being cast as an actor.

Ben was his father's nickname (from "Bhanji") and the "Kingsley" part is an hommage to his grandfather, who was known as "King Spice" in Tanzania.

[provis99]

405. how about Geraldo "Gerry" Rivera?

Geraldo went by "Gerry" while at the University of Arizona, to blend in with the WASPs.

[Hawkeye-X]

279. Did he legally change his name?

If so, then I have no problem with it.

[wickerwoman]

316. I don't see the distinction.

If I was transgendered and decided I wanted to be called "Alan" and I didn't want to spend several hundred dollars having my name legally changed, does that give you the right to call me by my birth name if I specifically asked you not to? And apart from rights, isn't it kind of a assholish thing to do to presume that you can call someone something other than what they introduced themselves to you as and/or asked you specifically to call them?

[Raineyb]

314. I certainly have a problem with the passing

It plays into the mindset of the white supremacist who think that if it ain't white it ain't right.

Regards

[wickerwoman]

317. But do you have a right to "out" someone who is trying to pass

just because you think they should have a more evolved relationship to their cultural heritage?

[CreekDog]

199. how old was Jindal when this decision was made? 4? 5? 10?

so i think the "intent" discussion is rather ridiculous.

[paulsby]

192. for pete's sake

he changed his name when he was a little kid. most probably there was at least some impetus to "fit in".

so frigging what? he did it as a kid, and after being called a name for a certain # of years why should he give it up to please the "he's trying to hide his ethnicity" crowd.

THAT would be pandering to ethnic crap, frankly. to change his name back (the name he goes by) to his given name to appease people or to try to prove he's down with his ehtnic roots.

furthermore, with a last name like jindal and the fact that he clearly does not look like some pasty white guy, nobody is going to think he's not indian background, just because he goes by "bobby".

personally, i don't go by my first name. my first name is actually very common, and my second middle name not so much. but i like my second middle name more, so i chose to go by it. sowhat? my first name is biblical. am i "hiding" my biblically influenced parents (neither of whom are particularly religious. but it is technically a biblical name).

this whole thing is bunch of crap. the guy has gone by bobby since he was a little kid and nobody needs to read a bunch of nefarious self-hating racial crap into it. it just makes the person look absurd.

[akbacchus_BC]

272. Wish I could recommend your post. Excellent observations. I didn't

realize that Gov. Jindal prefers Bobby as opposed to Piyush. People should respect his wishes for his name preference. After all, whether his name is Bobby, Anil, Ian, etc., he is not covering up his ethnicity.

This OP has brought out a lot of important information.

[paulsby]

278. thanks

this has really become a tempest in a teapot here.

i mean the guy did an EPIC FAIL in his speech, came across as patronizing (like he was talking to a 3rd grader), and his ideas sucked.

and people are all over his frigging NAME?

[blondeatlast]

452. Thank you; you addressed all the issues involved well. nt

[tblue37]

273. My Sicilian grandparents never allowed their kids to learn Italian,

because they wanted them to fully assimilate as 100% American.

My father, Salvatore Giovanni, became Samuel John when he joined the US Air Force at age 18. (He was a 19-year-old airman at Pearl Harbor when it was bombed.) Since we were at war with Italy, it might have been a wise move to Americanize his name then, though.

My brother Pasquale Giovanni (named after our grandfather) became Pat John when he turned 18.

My second brother, named after Dad, never even got to be Salvatore Giovanni. He was named Sam John from the start, after Dad's Americanized name.

I have always regretted the loss of those marvellous Italian names, though I certainly understand the desire to blend in, especially when one is young.

I have also always regretted that Dad and his siblings never learned Italian or taught it to us. Sure, it meant that they spoke English with no accent at all, but I still wish we had been taught Italian as children by a father who had been taught Italian as a child by his native Italian-speaking parents.

We should definitely call Bobby Jindal the name he wants to be called by. It's simple politeness. We can disagree with him and think he is a jerk without acting like jerks ourselves.

[shanti]

458. i had an old boyfriend

who was 1/2 italian, father's side, so he had an italian last name. he was from NYC. when i met him, he was about 32 years old, and had dropped the last name and was using his middle name as his last name. i felt like he was hiding his italian side and it always bothered me cause i feel you should be proud of your roots.

[Hello_Kitty]

216. Sounded to me like he was awfully proud of his heritage last night.

Granted, it was a crap speech but still.

[LynneSin]

97. I'm glad that Barry Obama switched back to Barack

I think if he ran as Barry Obama we would have faced the same exact questions about the name.

[CreekDog]

200. I think the other important point is that Barack made the decision and he is the one best to make it

as is Jindal.

I'm not saying we can't have opinions on it, but we should recognize that his opinion is the most important one on the matter.

:hi:

[shireen]

397. i thought "Barry" was a nickname?

I can see how "Barry" could become a nickname for "Barack"
Like "Robbie" is a nickname for "Robert".

[eridani]

415. When the kid who was Chuckie Jones in kindergarten gets old enough to apply for a job--

--he becomes Charles H. Jones.

[Hello_Kitty]

215. Jindal is not stretching to be American. He is American.

I find your use of that phrase troubling.

[KittyWampus]

6. I think it's sophomoric. That said, I love Indian culture. Too bad Jindal never reclaimed

that part of his heritage. But that's his business.

Net nannies are annoying.
School yard name calling is embarrassing

[Gin]

8. he will run for POTUS...he deserves scrutiny...IMO

[Seeking Serenity]

12. Indeed. How far does that scrutiny go? (n/t)

[tavalon]

44. Correct! But not about his name!

I bet we could dig up so much dirt on the guy his POTUS dreams would be dashed but the name, is that really the best we can do. It's childish and makes us look like we ain't got nothin' on him. Last night, he reminded us to always think of the Republican's when we think of the disaster that was Hurricane Katrina. Ya think we might just focus on that little gem for a while?

[Seeking Serenity]

9. How do we know that he has not "reclaimed" that part of his heritage?

"Reclaimed" implies that he claimed it once, and then disavowed it. Maybe he never claimed it. Maybe he's never disavowed it. I don't know. Does anyone?

I have to admit, I don't know much about the man, other than he's the governor for my neighbor to the south. Does anyone have something that evinces that he's somehow ashamed or forsaken his cultural heritage? (And even if he is, so what? What does that have to do with you or me?)

[MADem]

392. Didn't anyone listen to his lousy speech? He raved about his heritage.

He talked about his immigrant parents and how his mother was four months pregnant with their little citizen when they arrived here. He also noted that his FATHER called him Bobby and told him how great America was.

Bobby is a common nickname in India. It's a "cultural bridge" name. There are many Indian Bobbys who are actors, singers, sports heroes, etc. The alphabet cannot accomodate every Indian name, and the pronounciation of many names in the west ends up being butchered, so consequently, many Indians adopt nicknames that cross cultures.

Bobby must have figured he hit paydirt when he saw Bobby Brady on TV as a four year old and wanted that for his nickname...because the name is a common one in both Indian society and American. And it's absolute manna in LA.

He took his oath as Bobby. He wants to be called by that name. It's just rude to snark at him and disregard his wishes. That's a GOP device, not a Democratic one.

[pnutbutr]

10. respect and comfort

I wouldn't feel comfortable using what amounts to a nickname unless I knew the person or was asked to use that name by the person. If I met Mr. Jindal today and needed to address him by his full name I would use his given name out of respect.

[Skinner]

18. Just so I understand where you're coming from:

Are you responding as someone who has a non-western given name, but who goes by a more common nickname?

And another question:

When DUers refer to Bobby Jindal as "Piyush" do you believe it is intended as sign of "respect and comfort"?

[pnutbutr]

28. totally western name

I don't really care which name people refer to him as. Piyush is his given name and as such there should be absolutely no problem in addressing him by that name. Bobby is the Americanized name he has chosen to go by in everyday life. Both are acceptable in a venue such as an internet forum. I was more talking about meeting face to face in my post. I was taught to show respect to people and feel that using a nickname he has chosen for himself would be disrespectful since I do not know him personally. Of course if I ever met him I would address him as Mr. Jindal or Governor Jindal and not by his first name unless there was some specific reason to do so.

[Skinner]

46. So, your position is...

...that DUers who call Bobby Jindal "Piyush" are doing so as a sign of respect? Is that correct?

[tavalon]

63. I think he was saying what he would do

I really think defending what has happened on DU vis a vis Gov. Jindal's name as being respectful is disingenuous at best and flat out lying at worse, but I don't think this particular poster was trying to take on that Herculean task. My take anyway.

There is a meme out in cyberland that FreeRepublic and DemocraticUnderground are two sides of a coin, a coin that lacks nor deserves any respect. I know that the meme is incorrect as far as DU goes and truthfully, I never go to the other site so I can't really comment about them, but when we start the jingoistic name calling, well, I suspect we don't look all that different from one another and that makes me sad because it so isn't the essence of this place.

We've gotten huge though, and other than signing up and promising to read and follow the rules, we get all sorts here and some are being way juvenile with this name game. Some of us are looking on rather aghast and I will admit, I'm posting on some of those threads trying to redirect the children, which is probably about as useful as teaching pigs to fly.

[pnutbutr]

81. not necessarily

It all depends on the circumstances and context in which it is used. If meeting personally I would use Piyush if it were necessary to use his first name. That would IMO show my respect to him as a representative of the state and he may then correct me if he feels the need. I have never been comfortable addressing people by nicknames or preferred names until I know them personally. Might just be me though.

On an internet forum there will be people using it in a derogatory way. I don't like it but they are free to do it if they wish, it doesn't hurt me, only them. I would however be curious as to why he decided that Bobby is better suited for him and when in his life he made this decision. Early in childhood or while trying to enter politics?

[dbmk]

301. Even if the man clearly wants to be known as Bobby Jindal?

How can it be disrespectful to call someone by the name they have put on posters all over Louisiana, most likely?

Its not a nickname. Its his name.

[uppityperson]

323. Seems more respectable to call him "Mr. Jindal" or by the name he prefers.

Seems more respectful to call someone by what they prefer to be called than by something you may think is more proper. Seems disrespectful to ignore his preference.

[InvisibleTouch]

486. Addressing him by his non-preferred name...

...would be the exact opposite of respectful. Even if your intention was to be respectful. I can pretty well guarantee he would not perceive it as such. Speaking from experience.

[newtothegame]

290. I'm sorry Skinner, but I have a little trouble taking you seriously on these sensitive issues...

since November 4th. Within 24 hrs of the election, you posted a message on DU giving us African-American DU'ers your "WARMEST CONGRATULATIONS" for what, having the same skin color as our President? And yet not even a keystroke on the fact that on the same day, probably thousands of DU'ers and millions of Americans had been deemed no better than animals, 2nd or 3rd class citizens at best, unfit to marry. Sure, days later after people reacted, you posted a sympathy post, but it was hard to take it seriously at that point.

[Fedja]

325. Bleh.

If you graduated college on 9/11/2001, nobody would have sent you a congratulatory card. November 4th was a day of two major events. Just as I can understand every GLBT person not being overly excited about the elections in view of what happened to their human rights, I can understand people who don't have a personal connection to the particular community overlooking Prop5.

On a personal note, I was happy for my African American friends that day as well. I was happy for them making a collective leap in the removal of silent social barriers. Nothing wrong with that?

[LostinVA]

429. I actually don't disagree with this statement

And, teh ":reasonable people can disagree" has stung like a festered tooth.

[Fedja]

322. I figure it's a taunt.

Not a taunt of his heritage, not a taunt of his being less American than apple pie. I feel it's a taunt of his weakness in the face of adversity.

As Obama flirted with "Barry" in his school days when fitting in is more important than life and death, Jindal does in his mature life. Obama grew out of his identity search into a man who proudly wears his name, including a most inopportune middle name. Jindal's continuous use of the "Bobby" suggest an adolescent angle.

Of course, this is helped by the fact that people here don't like him as a person and a politician, so the negative angle is a most pleasant assumption to embrace. :)

[Brazenly Liberal]

57. I see what you're saying, but I think you are mistaken

I have a friend whose family calls him "Giggy." It's very much a family nickname that refers back to very personal family events. Calling him by that name presumes a degree of intimacy. If you met him, it would be as "Dan" and it would be presumptuous and disrespectful to call him Giggy until/unless you were invited to do so. That's the kind of thing you're referring to with Gov. Jindal, yes?

But that's NOT the kind of nickname Bobby Jindal has. He uses the name "Bobby" publicly, is regularly introduced as "Bobby," and has preferred since he was a small child to be called "Bobby" - by everyone, not just close family.

If you are concerned about being respectful, call people what they want to be called. If you meet or discuss my friend, he is Dan and if you meet or discuss the Governor of Louisiana, he is an assholeBobby.

[Seeking Serenity]

69. If I ever had the chance to meet Muhammed Ali or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

I would not insult them (and denigrate myself) by addressing them as "Cassius Clay" or "Lew Alcindor" contrary to their wishes, even though those are their GIVEN names.

[Brazenly Liberal]

77. Exactly! nt

And if you met my friend, you'd call him "Dan" because he prefers his given name with people he isn't close to.

It seems pretty simple to me.

[freeplessinseattle]

139. Precisely

and further, "Dan" is a nickname of "Daniel", so wouldn't it be odd if someone insisted on calling him "Daniel"? that has the ring of a angry mom, or anal teacher, or something, lol.

seriously, when someone knows that a nickname is a chosen name, such as Mike for Michael, Liz or Elizabeth, etc., and chooses to use the formal form, it is not usually in a positive way, and feels disrespectful (from what I have gathered from friends).

On the other hand, it drives me nuts when casual or new acquaintances decide to shorten my name, it's fine if I've known them awhile but for the most part it gives me a weird feeling of overfamiliarity, and it's always those exuberant salesman type personalities. always felt like they were trying to be manipulative, too, on some level.

[ExPatLeftist]

249. Exactly! "What's my name?!?"

And we know what happens to those that dared to address The Great Muhammad Ali by his "given name": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DefCmUsCPs This event had a big impact on my life and taught me that names DO matter, and that we own our own names, no one else has that right.

The idea that it is "respectful" to address someone by their given name rather than the name that THEY HAVE SAID THAT THEY PREFER is just hogwash. People change their names all the time. Why they do so is up to them, as it is THEIR name - it is not for others to choose.

What about that kid recently whose idiotic racist redneck parents named him "Adolf Hitler" - he will undoubtedly change that shit. Will it then be a sign of "respect" to some of you here to still refer to the poor guy as "Adolf Hitler" simply because he had the horrendously poor luck to have been conceived by a couple of morons?


If you own nothing else in your life, you own your name. It is YOURS and belongs to no one else. If you decide to change it, that is your right. If people still insist on referring to you by another name, whether it was once yours or not, and no matter their lame excuse, then they deserve exactly what Ali gave to Ernie Terrell.



Perhaps there is no overlap, as we are individuals not a hive-mind, but if there is anyone out there that was in the least bit bothered that Obama was called "Hussein" relentlessly by the conservative media and that same person is now referring to Bobby Jindal as "Piyush", then they are a huge hypocrite and a cretin. Excuses about "they did it to 'us'" just do not wash either. WE are better than that. WE are not the ignorami that we claim that "they" are. Or are we? We need to rise above, not lower ourselves into the sewer in order to point out that others are soaking in shit.

Seeing this kind of crap on DU really pisses me off. So much for being "progressive" - whether you see this as racist or not (I most certainly do), that does not change the fact that it is infantile and belongs in a sandbox not in supposed intelligent and adult discussion.

"WHAT'S MY NAME?!" It is what you say it is, Mr. Ali.

[Warren Stupidity]

432. Both of these people legally changed their names.

Muhammed Ali is not a nickname nor is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Had Piyush legally changed his name to Robert Smith, while I would continue to find that odd, he would be Robert Smith, not Piyush "Robert Smith" Jindal.

[blondeatlast]

453. Exactly. Anyone who did would be clearly disrespecting them. nt

[BrklynLiberal]

297. LOL

:rofl:
Made me laugh.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Excellent question, Denny. I hope to hear a lot of input.

In my line of work, I deal with dozens of international students. Those students intent on returning to their home country will generally not bother with trying to find an American sounding name. Those who choose to stay far more frequently find a more traditional, American name, and they'll do the same for their children. They find that it is far easier to assimilate (i.e., have even a chance of being treated as an equal) if they have a first name that Americans can pronounce.

The trend here at DU to call Jindal by his given "Piyush" rather than his preferred "Bobby" is bizarre. It's founded in bigotry because it immediately illustrates that Jindal is "one of them" and not "one of us." It has the convenient dodge of supposedly not being bigotry because "it's his given name", but the motivations are clear.

[Richardo]

19. I have two words for you: Bing and O

You nailed it :thumbsup:

[Seeking Serenity]

21. Award winner!

"It has the convenient dodge of supposedly not being bigotry because "it's his given name", but the motivations are clear."

Patently clear. It's an insult to people's intelligence (mine, anyway) to try to assert otherwise.

[blondeatlast]

33. Thank you--you stated it well. My husband is Indian; American by choice

and uses his Indian name in biz but in other settings goes by an American name that is similar.

We gave our son a beautiful Indian name and he uses it exclusively and politely and proudly corrects those who mispronounce it.

[myrna minx]

35. Exactly. n/t

[KittyWampus]

36. Ah, but the DU'ers doing it aren't bigots. They're playing into the Rightwing xenophobia

DU'ers don't have a problem with Jindal's background.

They are referencing the bigotry of his chosen political party.

And playing a childish game of "turn around is fair play" since the Right used the name "Hussein".

I don't care for schoolyard name calling. Except for the occasional use of the generic "asshole", when warranted.

[Arkansas Granny]

87. Yes. Exhibiting typical playground behavior tactics.

[Seeking Serenity]

98. It's the age-old double standard.

It's bad when you do "X," but it's OK when I do "X," (ostensibly because I walk on the side of angels, my motives are purer than yours, my side can't be wrong, etc.).

I HATE double standards. If it's not OK for the Republicans to do a thing, it's not OK for us to do that same thing.

[blondeatlast]

454. Fortunately, "asshole" is both descriptive and not the least bit racist. I'll gladly refer to Jindal

as an asshole--but won't refer to him by any other proper name than the one he prefers.

[Earth_First]

37. +1 n/t

[Marrah_G]

42. Your post is spot on !

And said far better then my feeble attempts at making the same point today.

Thank you for posting this.

[burythehatchet]

67. check.

[dkf]

86. I don't see that.

I think its more to examine if he rejects his given name and his heritage and to square that with his party.

I think it is odd that a 4 year old would want to change their name anyway.

If people are making fun of the name, I'm thinking its not because its Indian, but because it sounds funny, like the sound you make when something is stinky.

[burythehatchet]

126. You really need to take a time out and reflect just a little.You are doing yourself no favors today

[dkf]

149. Well that is what I see and think when I read this stuff.

I'm beginning to think that being from Hawaii I see the world differently because there are no minorities or majorities here. Pretty much everybody fits in.

Some of you ascribe the worst things to people's motivations. I can't relate to that because people aren't like that around here.

Damn I'm lucky to live here! Not much racism, pride in heritage and really nice weather.

[burythehatchet]

162. Someone once told me I looked Hawaiian. I took it as a compliment.

:)

[WorseBeforeBetter]

371. Pretend you're a 4-year-old kid named Piyush living in Louisiana in the mid-70s with...

your recently arrived "immigrant" parents. You still think it's odd that a child would want an American-sounding name? To me it sounds as if he wanted to "fit in".

I have no idea if this is true (from Wikipedia), but it doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me. Hell, in elementary school I wanted to change my name to Jennifer, because all the pretty blonde girls were named Jennifer. (I kept my name and fully embraced my unique auburn hair...)

"According to family lore, Jindal chose to re-name himself "Bobby" inspired by the sitcom character Bobby Brady after watching The Brady Bunch television series at the age of four. He has been known by his self-adopted nickname ever since—as a civil servant, politician, student, and writer—though legally his name remains Piyush Jindal.<5>"

[Political Heretic]

96. You are of course absolutely right. But it also underscores something far more disturbing....

...hypocrisy. If Bobby Jindal was a liberal Democrat instead of a crazy republican, and it was free republic who insisted on emphasizing his "foreign sounding" name, we would call them "disgusting" and "outrageous"

[Marrah_G]

109. Which site do you think the following was posted on?

5. Yeah...I think I've spoken to his brother Billy at Dell tech support
I can't understand him either.

[Buzz Clik]

113. I couldn't agree more.

I have busied myself hiding threads that played to this issue.

[blondeatlast]

455. Zing--> Target. nt

[Occam Bandage]

133. Absolutely true. nt

[PVnRT]

146. Another +1

:thumbsup:

[H2O Man]

161. Good points.

Thank you.

[Lucian]

283. +1

[akbacchus_BC]

285. Amen. Nicely stated, better than I ever could. nt

[BrklynLiberal]

299. I would like to recommend your post...

[PretzelWarrior]

338. BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stop the hate at DU

[skepticscott]

364. It's founded in the bigotry

of the people that Jindal himself has chosen to associate with. They're the only ones who might be bothered by the fact that he's not of Western European background. I'm looking for a country where there is no "them" and "us", where it doesn't matter what someone's name is, and where no one needs to be reluctant to embrace their ethnic heritage. As long as people like Jindal have any influence at all, we'll never live in that kind of country.

[Buzz Clik]

431. As I read your post, it doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

Jindal is the target in this case, not the offender. I'm not sure to whom you are referring when speaking of "the people that Jindal himself has chosen to associate with", but the behavior in question on this thread are the actions of DU members. I seriously doubt that Jindal is associating himself with DU members who are finding sport in calling him "Piyush".

[TexasObserver]

16. I'm not one such person, but I find the ridiculing of names to be bigoted.

Making fun of a person's name is a way of ridiculing who they are, where they come from, what their native culture is. It's very UNprogressive to make fun of someone's name, no matter what it is.

[vanderBeth]

17. I got a name different than what I go by.

I never had a problem because people usually respect the fact that people don't get to choose their names.

I would be pissed if someone did it deliberately. Everybody has had this happen to them. Ever get a nickname you don't like? Same thing.

Edit: To think the people saying "It's his problem, he should should just embrace his cultural identity." This is bullshit. My name isn't common here AT ALL, but it is still a Western name and people almost always pronounce it right when they first see it. I still go by a different name because I still HATE this name.

[Skinner]

27. Thank you for your reply.

If I understand you correctly, you normally go by a name that is different from your given name. Is your given name a "non-western" or "foreign-sounding" name?

You say you would be pissed if someone deliberately called you by your given name, instead of your chosen name. Do you believe those who do so are being bigoted? Or are they being disrespectful, but not necessarily racist?

[vanderBeth]

40. Sorry, I just edited before I saw your reply. It's German, but never popular over here

It was my grandmother's name.

I would be upset because they were being petty or obtuse and probably would have already asked them to stop. I don't think necessarily racist, but disrespectful if they did to keep on bringing up their race. People shouldn't force Jindal to use his Indian name to emphasize his race.

[QC]

20. Thank you, Skinner.

This Piyush business is nothing more than xenophobia, which is just as ugly when we do it as when the other guys do it.

[TahitiNut]

22. It happened to my mother ... within her own family.

The eldest child of a Norwegian immigrant couple, she was named "Solveig Sophie..." (Her father, my grandfather, was a devotee of Edvard Grieg and "Solveig's Song" is part of the "Peer Gynt Suite" ... a particularly beautiful and evocative part.)

She adopted the Anglicized "Sylvia" in school, eschewing her given name and dropping the "Sophie" middle name. Well, her brothers (and my dad, in imitation) called her "Soph" in retaliation. All their lives. Her parents, of course, always called her "Solveig."

I doubt she felt insulted by being called "Solveig" (as her parents called her) unless it was INTENDED as a taunt. She accepted the nickname "Soph" without any problem.

(Back "in the day" my grandparents suffered the jingoism/bigotry of the day, being called "filthy Scandahoovians" by coworkers and others. My grandfather reacted by learning to speak English without any trace of an accent -- then learned three other languages. A man with only a 4th grade formal education who was a blue collar skilled factory worker all his life ... he was the intellectually strongest man I ever knew.)

[Hepburn]

52. OMG....what a wonderful story....and so much like my grandfather.

He had a 4th grade education and from reading different versions of the Bible, taught himself English. He also spoke enough German, Italian, Spanish, Russian, French and Hungarian to get along as well as speaking Yiddish. He walked across Europe from Romanian to get to the boat docks in France to earn enough money to pay for steerage to the USA. He made himself into a multi-millionaire in the 1920s. He was brilliant and eloquent and during the Great Depression, he had a ton of money and he voluntarily fed, clothed and housed people who were in trouble.

I can totally identify with your wonderful grandfather ~~ I had one very much like him!

:loveya: What a wonderful man!

[TahitiNut]

72. I feel 'gifted' to have had him for my grandfather.

He loved music, particularly strings. As a blue collar working man with 5 kids in the Depression, he could neither afford to buy an instrument nor afford lessons.

So ...

He taught himself how violins were constructed and made one. Hand carving the woods and soaking them and using the oven to dry them once shaped. Careful, diligent, and focused ... he made one that sounded very good. He THEN taught himself to play it. He was GOOD. (Amazingly enough.) Then, one time, a 'friend' made the comment that it sounded like someone was torturing a cat. He put it down and refused to play ever again. (I wish I knew where that violin went. I'd prize it.)

Another story...

He was 6'1" tall. In a home he had in the 40s, he'd have to go into the basement to feed the furnace -- shoveling coal -- perhaps 2-3 times each day. They got an automatic stoker that reduced the frequency to once a day. BUT ... he'd bump his head on the beams since the basement was only 6' below grade. He finally had enough of that. So ... he took a sledge hammer, pick, and shovel into the basement and, over the course of some weeks in his spare time, proceeded to bust up a poured concrete floor and shovel it out a standard basement window, shovel it into a wheelbarrow, and use it aas fill in his back yard. He lowered the basement floor by about one foot, pouring a new concrete floor. By himself.

I grew up with a grandfather that showed me what WORK was. Like I say ... the (intellectually) STRONGEST man I ever knew.

When I think of his hands -- calloused and hard -- and the crafting and playing of a violin with those hands ... I get a lump in my throat. An amazing man, my grandfather.

Every time I open a milk carton (the ones where you spread the edges and form a spout) I remember my grandfather. That particular carton was originally invented by ExCello Corporation, who made the machines for the milk producers. My grandfather was the primary operator of the (room-sized) machine that made those machines for ExCello. He was kept on two years past retirement in order to train others. He was AFL-CIO ... a union man. (Thus, so am I even though I'm not a member.)

[Hepburn]

123. Oh, Tahiti....

....you truly were blessed. What a wonderful man! :hug:

[Hardrada]

390. There was some name changing in my Norse-American family.

Great Uncle Eiler became "Edward" or "Eddy." Jorgena became "Gena." My great grandmother somehow became "Betsy." By the time my grandmother came along she was named "Ann Thalia." My great grandfather had his first names turned around at Ellis Island and became "Ivar Knute" and not "Knute Ivar." They all spoke Norwegian and English was to them a second language. I was raised in that environment and Engliah was a second language in my family which is why I never picked up any of the grammatical infelicities which are part of the normal common American dialect. I always talked like a classical music channel radio announcer which did cause me some problems when I was younger since people thought I was being arrogant. Also we never heard the term "scandahoovian" in my community since it was 99% Norwegian Lutheran and of course also devoid of any other ethnic groups save for a few folks of Irish descent. This was not by the way a very genial community and was not in the slightest quaint or cute like the mythical Lake Woebegone. Our town war memorial was a Sherman M4 tank because one of our former townsmen had helped to design the WWII armored vehicle.

[blondeatlast]

23. He's not a DUer, but my husband (Indian who chose American citizenship) does.

And yes, he's experienced being called by his Indian name regardless of his preference and it was meant to be an insult.

OTOH, my son is proud of his Hindi name and proudly and politely corrects those who mispronounce it.

[Skinner]

30. He believes it was intended as an insult.

Does he believe it was racist as well as insulting?

[LostinVA]

116. I think it would have to be racist -- wat else could be meant by it?

[blondeatlast]

450. It was, see below. nt

[blondeatlast]

449. Meant to reply yesterday but my DSL crashed. Given the context

it was most definitely racist as this person was among my husband's peers and supervisors--all of whom called him by his preferred name, noyt the Indian one.

The way I see it with Jindal, if he has expressed a desire to be addressed as "Bobby," then so be it. And I despise the mofo--but even people I despise get my respect.

[GodlessBiker]

25. I've tried to get people to call me by my porn name, Buck Naked, but it just won't take.

But, yes, people should be called by what they would like to be called by. Is Bobby the usual westernization of Piyush?

[MADem]

396. Bobby is a common Indian nickname.

Often, the nickname doesn't exactly match the given name, or come even close. But there are famous Indians, besides Jindal, who have kept their nickname into adulthood and gone on to fame and fortune, and they're not 'ashamed' of their heritage, either:

Indian film heartthrob, Bobby Deol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTXbq69h9vg

His given name is Vijay Singh Deol...he comes from an acting family, they're like the Barrymores of India.

[blondeatlast]

456. Also very true. It's not inconceivable that he was nicknamed "Bobby" at home.

My husband is Indian and in our circle of friends I can name at least 2 "Bobbys" among children--boith of whose given names aren't very "Bobby" sounding.

[MADem]

468. He admits that he "found" the name on The Brady Bunch...but that said,

we don't know if he had cousins named Bobby or an Uncle Bobby back in his parent's homeland, or his parents had a friend or friends with the name in the Indian American community in the USA.

It's a perfect "bridge name" between the two cultures, and even more so the culture within Louisiana, where any name with a Y or -ie on the end of it is a good thing.

In his awful speech he mentioned his father saying "Bobby..." and then going on with some parable about how great America is. I am sure his parents did call him Bobby from childhood, as he told the tale on the Jay leno show. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnBZrBL7N2I

There are a ton of adult Bobbys in arts and entertainment and sports in India. It's a cross cultural name, no longer the exclusive property of British, American and Australian children named Robert.

[tavalon]

26. When I was in grade school and the kids would find out that

my first name was Barbara instead of Terri, they would tease me unmercifully. I found it infuriating and I hated it. The thing that I'm amazed at is that a single DUer has latched onto Gov Jindal's other name when the guy went out there and equated the Republican party with Katrina - there's our comedy gold, not the guys name. He offered up Katrina as a reason we should turn back to Republicans, he really, really did. That's what we should be talking about.

DU is such a wonderful place but we do have our mob mentality moments. I hate that part of us and I really don't like that this has happened today, on a day that we should be rejoicing because our side did as magnificently as their side flamed out. We can have our victory dance without resorting to this childishness, really.

[Wickerman]

29. It's a good point

Many of us whose families immigrated to the US have had our names "Anglicized". Look at a list of of entrants to Ellis Island sometime. Now look for those names in any large city phone books. You won't find half of them. And that was after the clerk at Ellis tried to "help" them (or was too lazy) by shortening their names.

Newcomers assimilate to their adopted culture. While I don't in anyway support Jindal beyond his right to breathe and to make an ass out of himself he should be able to call himself whatever he choses.

[dustbunnie]

31. Yes, all three of us girls got interesting names...

but the oldest one of us definitely got the worst of it. Mine is actually kind of popular now, although it seemed nerdy to me as a kid. Also, we got the nazi crap for our surname. Maybe the constant teasing is what led us to be sensitive toward others, so I'm kind of grateful for the experience now.

We all have nicknames from childhood and those monikers are just "us" now.

As I said elsewhere, if that one thread had been about my sister's name, with people writing how insensitive it is to use it, she would be hurt anew, so I find those attempting to be politic are the ones who come off being the opposite. The use of Jindal's first name is probably not rooted in racism, but the impetus is the same as when we were kids and knew how to be creatively cruel with just a name. It's childish, not necessarily racist.

[Coexist]

34. my grandmother from Poland went by "Willow" because her Polish name got butchered

when she was in grade school (she never mentioned teasing/bullying specifically), but as an adult, she answered to both without care.

My ex Father in Law changed his first name (Danish) to a different spelling (legally) to make it easier for people.

My neighbor is Indian and we all call her "Mini" because her name is difficult to get right, but she did appreciate us trying. Another neighbor prefers the sound of her name Lourdes as something like "lul-des" but most people don't bother and say "lord-es" - I do say it the way she prefers and she appreciates it, but doesn't think the other is an insult or a slight.

[pipi_k]

61. My daughter in law has two names as well

Her Polish name, Danci (or Dancia), and her "American" name, the one she uses legally, which is Diane.

She answers to both with no problems, and doesn't seem to prefer one over the other.

:)

[wildflowergardener]

39. Name

I haven't seen alot of the posts, but wonder if it isn't something similar to calling Obama, Barack Hussein Obama?

I think criticize him because of his content, not his name.

[crispini]

41. Not me, but the candidate I worked for this last cycle.

Her birth name is Vietnamese. She legally adopted a Western name when she started to practice in front of the bar; she felt that her birth name confused people un-necessarily, and adopting a Western name would make her professional life easier, and she felt that a hybrid name represented her hybrid status. She often told the story of how she chose her new name as part of her campaign speech. She still goes by her Vietnamese name among the Vietnamese community, including her husband and family, and some of us who knew her used her Vietnamese name as well.

Would she find it disrespectful if someone insisted on calling her by her given name? No, not at all. She has it on the door of her office and on her diplomas, and many of her friends still call her by that name. That said, I think she has a much more comfortable relationship about her birth name than Mr. Jindal does -- for example, I think it was pretty disingenuous of him to tell that story about his father telling him that anything can happen in America, and claim that his own father called him "Bobby." I'd put a bet down that his own parents still call him by his birth name. ;)

[kwassa]

43. I have students from about 90 different nations ....

or so the school system tells me. This is just immigration in the Washington D.C. metro area.

There is no consistency in whether they use a traditional first name from their country, an Americanized nickname, a formal version of an American name, or a nickname traditional in their country. For some years it was common for east Asians in particular to choose American first names, but that seems to have faded.

And some Americans can choose some very unusual names on their own.

The bottom line is that the respectful thing to do is to address them with the name of their choice, pronounced the way they want it pronounced.

[Buzz Clik]

165. kick! kick! kick!

[Hekate]

303. A groundsman at my old condo was named Pilipi --someone else insisted it was *really* Felipe....

Now that was just wrong. His name was *really* what he *said* his name was.

Hekate

[dkf]

45. My problem is calling a person's given name an "insult".

In my experience, people pick American nicknames because others can't pronounce Asian names or spell it properly, especially Chinese names.

Being in Hawaii we get a ton of people with Asian names, and while I know their Americanized names, I don't call them that and am surprised when others do. So for those friends, I'd say school friends know their Asian names and work friends know their Americanized names, but its not consistent which I find weird.

Most of my uncles and auntys have Asian names, and we just cut them short, but that is about it.

My half Asian half hispanic cousin went even farther where she doesn't use her American name, but goes by her Asian middle name.

My Japanese friend gave her kids American first names and Japanese middle names, and her first goes by his American name, the second goes by his Japanese name and the third goes by her Japanese name.

Even Barack's mother went through this with some knowing her as Stanley Ann and others as Ann.

For all my friends, if anyone ever told me using their given names was an insult because they weren't Americanized I'd want to slap em.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

59. *Using* someone's given name if they don't want you to is a deliberate insult.

Bobby Jindal has chosen not to use the name Piyush; calling him that is a deliberate insult, just as much as calling someone who had been born Bobby and chose to use Piyush would be.

[atreides1]

119. Good Point

But could you direct me to where he's stated that he doesn't want to be called by his given name?

I'm willing to bet that some do call him by his given name, and he may not have a problem with it.

[druidity33]

145. thank you

i wanted to read downthread to see if anyone had made this point:

"could you direct me to where he's stated that he doesn't want to be called by his given name?"


I don't insist on using Gov Jindal's legal first name, but i don't see a problem with it. Some will use it against him and they're wrong to do so. Period. There are some very narrow contexts where one could use his given name with propriety, but they are limited in scope. People here ought to call him Gov. Jindal as befits his position and just be done with this.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with calling him a little weasel though...

:)

[noiretextatique]

312. thanks for asking this question eom

[MADem]

Gee, let's see--campaign ads, campaign bumper stickers, the way he took the oath of office,

the fact that he introduces himself as Bobby, the fact that he went on Jay Leno and explained how he got the name...

In his speech, he quoted his father calling him "Bobby."

Why does he have to "justify" it? He comes out, looks in the camera, and says "I'm Bobby Jindal." That's enough for me--he's Bobby Jindal. He's a clueless dolt, but he's BOBBY Jindal. Why? Because he says so.

[MADem]

399. ,

[blondeatlast]

457. Exactly. It is that simple. My own first name, Laurel, is surprisingly

difficult for many--I get Laurie, Lauren, etc. I very politely correct people: "Laura, but with an "l" at the end.

Not so difficult--so I feel offended if the same people continue to address me as other than Laurel--and if I have corrected them, I feel justified in feeling insulted.

That they can't take the time to pronounce it correctly indicates to me the regard they hold for me.

[dalaigh lllama]

47. I'm wondering if they were ok with freepers calling our president "Barry"

It's exactly the same thing, and just as unworthy. Worse -- I've seen some threads here slurring Jindal's Indian ancestry (the one I saw is locked now. Thank you). It seems no matter how "enlightened" we think we are, there's plenty of room for improvement.

[Hekate]

304. Hussein. That one was really cool. Hussein. You just knew from that alone that he was a furriner....

Hussein. And a Muslim to boot. Hussein. Not American. Hussein. Good thing the American people knew that upfront. Hussein.

Hekate

[Crunchy Frog]

473. Heck, there were people on DU who did it during the primaries.

I think some of them are even still around.

[Hekate]

488. Evidently

:eyes:

[Raineyb]

320. I don't find the use of a given name quite the same as the use of a

diminutive that's not in use at all. Using a diminutive when it's not wanted is always a put down. I'd have to see context before deciding on the use of a given name when a nickname is in use.

The name in and of itself is not an insult.

Frankly, it says rather unflattering things about our society and Jindal that he feels the need to change his first name.

Regards

[Warren Stupidity]

433. No it is exactly backwards.

Other than that you make an excellent tniop.

[newtothegame]

48. I'm not surprised. On DU it started with women this summer...

But once Hillary and Palin were out of the picture and could no longer be called bitches, sluts, skanks and trashy hoes, people are moving onto Jindal.

Unfortunately, DU has an obsession with any hint of racial bias against African-Americans, but could care less about and even enjoys a good rousing bout of discrimination against any other class.

DU's priorities:
1. African-Americans

and

way

down

here

2. Every other ethnic minority put together in one group
3. Women
4. Gays

In addition, unfortunately, I agree that the excuse alot of the time is that "The Republicans do it!!!!!" Well yeah, we also spend ALL DAY EVERY DAY ON HERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT JACKASSES AND RACISTS THEY ARE FOR DOING IT!! They're idiots, we say they're idiots, so what's our excuse for doing the same thing?

ed for sp

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

49. I have a very Italian first name

most people butcher it and I've been called a variety of combinations, some of which do not resemble my actual name in the least.

Therefore, all through college, I've called myself with an Americanized nickname, although I prefer my actual name, just to make it simple.

My last name is not only Italian but long and hard to spell. Where I work, I receive lots of shipments from UPS and FedEx. I have since learned to shorten my last name to make it easier on the UPS or FedEx people.

I actually prefer if someone calls me by my given name. It sounds better and ..umm... sexier. I guess it depends on whether the name for everyday life was chosen out of convenience (as mine was) or to try to obfuscate national origin or ethnicity which, in my view, is not a good reason.

To each his/her own.

[Bjorn Against]

50. I have a foreign sounding name and I personally don't like when people try to Americanize it.

My name is Bjorn which is a Swedish name and I have had many people insist on calling me BJ which I don't like at all.

Bobby Jindal is a different case entirely because he usually goes by the name "Bobby" instead of "Piyush". I will call him Bobby because that is the name he seems to prefer, and I don't see any reason to call him anything else. Whether calling him Piyush is racist or not I think depends a lot on context, but sadly I think many of the people who are using it right now are using it in a racist context. It is the same thing with Barack Hussein Obama, yes it is his name and there are many people who say that name in respect and there is nothing wrong with using his full name in a respectful manner. There are many others however who use his full name with the sole intention of stirring up racism and xenophobia, this is clearly wrong and it is clearly racist.

I think we should call people by what the name they want to be referred to, and if they want to go by an American style name we should respect that and if they want to go by their real name we should respect that as well.

[Mz Pip]

53. I know several people

who have Americanize their foreign names.

I suppose all the focus on Jindal's Americanized name is rooted in the fact that the RWers made fun of Obama because he used an Americanized name when he was in high school but they don't seem to have a problem with Jindal using "Bobby." It's the hypocricy.

I don't care what Jinal calls himself. He's still a right wing tool.

Mz Pip

[WI_DEM]

56. It's total nonsense that some DUers are using his given name

James Carter, for instance, preferred to be called "Jimmy" and William Clinton preferred to be called "Bill"

[Skinner]

64. I'm not sure I understand your point.

Are you saying that calling Bill Clinton "William" is the same as calling Bobby Jindal "Piyush"?

[WI_DEM]

93. My point is that while we may not like him instead of calling Jindal "Piyush" call him by the name

he is known by which is "Bobby" just like James Carter preferred "Jimmy" and Willian Clinton preferred "Bill." We don't have to make our points by calling him "Piyush".

[Skinner]

107. Thank you for clarifying.

I agree.

[Seeking Serenity]

102. To that unique comparison, it's only the same insofar as

it's a sign of disrespect of person, and of that person's choice.

We should respect choice.

[Sebastian Doyle]

251. God forbid it ever happens, but if Jindal were elected President

would he be sworn into office as "Bobby"?

President Carter was sworn in as James Earl Carter. President Clinton was sworn in as William Jefferson Clinton. President Obama was sworn in as Barack Hussein Obama. (twice, thanks to Roberts flubbing the oath).

If Jindal were President, he would be sworn in as Piyush (whatever his middle name is) Jindal.

If his name were legally changed to Bobby that would be different. Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe, but he was legally adopted by Roger Clinton Sr. Gerald Ford was born with the name Leslie King Jr. He too was legally adopted. Kept the Jr, dropped the rest.

[deoxyribonuclease]

58. My legal first name is a transliteration of my Chinese name

I go by my middle name which is a "Western" name though. I prefer to be called by my middle name, but if a person can actually pronounce my first name correctly (not at all likely), then I don't mind.

I think that people need to show respect and call a person by whatever that person wants to be called.

[ChickMagic]

157. DNase

I really wanted to go by my middle name in school, mostly because when I filled out those blasted IBM forms, there were only 6 spaces for your name. Virginia became Virgin. I was humiliated and laughed at even by the teacher. Ann would have been soooo much better. It never happened though.

[Marrah_G]

60. Skinner- I would put this point up for your consideration

Consider if you saw the following post on Free Republic:

Why shouldn't we call him Barack Hussien Obama? It is his legal name. Is he ASHAMED of his name? I'm not Racist for referring to him as Barack HUSSIEN Obama-Seotoro, from Indonesia. It is his name, afterall. It's all just FACTS.

___________________________________

Would you think the poster of that was racist or bigotted? Or would you think the poster was being respectful of President Obama?

That is my take on the situation.

It is pointing out his differentness or as some put it earlier today how "creepy" he looks.

never mind that there are plenty of legitimate reasons to pick on the man, no need to use his heritage as a two by four.

I have a friend, a close friend, who is a 1st generation Indian, he uses the American name Andy and has since he was a child. I posed the situation to him and he said he thinks it is offensive.

[Skinner]

68. I think the comparison is obvious.

I think almost everyone on DU would see that post on FR as racist.

[Marrah_G]

70. I added a little to my post after speaking to a friend

Thank you for taking up this topic yourself.

[tavalon]

83. So, let me ask you a question

I'll preface it by saying that I just assumed from the beginning that you were trying to help errant DUers see what they were doing but you've been asking so many pointed, "Is it racist?" questions that now I'm wondering if you are trying to figure out if this is a situation that is just in poor taste or one that requires an official DU response (with many threatened tombstones for rule breakage)?

This is going to be quite the lemming shoot if you tombstone all of them, but if you are fishing for whether this needs an official response from DU, yeah, I think it does.

[Skinner]

106. We're not going to tombstone a bunch of people.

My impression is that this is a case of "not completely thinking through what they are saying" as opposed to outright racism.

Not sure if there is going to be any "official response" from me, other than what I have posted in this thread and elsewhere on this topic. I do hope that people think about what they post, and maybe this thread will help people think a little bit. To be honest, this is one of those times when I am actually looking for guidance from people who would have personal experience with this type of thing. Sometimes admins can learn, just like regular members can learn.

I think the admins need to discuss whether calling Bobby Jindal "Piyush" is an offense that would warrant deletion of a post. But I doubt it is something that would or should warrant immediate tombstoning. The insight we gain from these discussions on DU -- in this thread and elsewhere -- will certainly inform our decision.

I would much prefer if DUers would be a little more sensitive to how their posts are perceived, without my needing to step in and delete them. But I understand it is unrealistic to expect something like that from every member of a community this large and diverse.

[tavalon]

118. Thank you

You confirmed what I thought was going on. It is a hard question and a somewhat slippery slope, after all, do you delete all the references to Ann Coulter as Mann Coulter and so on. Bad taste - yes. Childish - yes. Wish we wouldn't do that sort of silliness - absolutely yes. But where does the hand become too heavy. Tough question.

Good luck on the discussions. I'm fairly certain you guys will come to a fair and what I would consider correct decision. You almost always do.

[enlightenment]

186. Skinner, thank you for responding to this.

I realise that I'm just old-fashioned, since I find nothing amusing in nasty jokes, snide asides, and 'clever' plays on Gov. Jindal's given name - so be it. When it gets to the point where clicking on a thread is the Internet equivalent of Russian Roulette - will there be a nasty, puerile comment in this one or not? - it makes DU a very unpleasant place.

[TexasObserver]

319. I appreciate it when you issue advisory opinions on topics.

I'm in the camp of those who immediately took as bigoted the use of Jindal's given name of "Piyush." It smacked of the HUSSEIN comments we heard ad nauseam from Obama's haters.

You choose the "come, let us reason together" approach over the "are you out of damn mind" approach, which most of us would employ. Thanks for keeping it cool.

[dbmk]

306. I think its first and foremost poor taste

I don't think its founded in their personal bigotry, but more a kind of revenge over Obama facing the same treatment - from people who do possess that bigotry on a personal level.

And as such it is sort of founded in bigotry - and I think this does not alleviate it, but compound it.

The most effectful response to the "Barry" brigade is to be respectful to Bobby Jindal, and not go down the same road, even if the motivating factor is not a personal bigotry towards americans with an Indian (or other nationality) background.

I _do_ think it would be a fair philosophical question to ask the man, what he thinks of the people insisting on calling Barack Barry - given his own experience. I think it has merit to cover the similarity to point out the hypocrisy. In a neutral and respectful manner.

But that would have little power if they can just point at DU and go "They do it to".

[Uzybone]

82. That would be a lie

His name is not Obama-Seotoro and he is not from Indonesia.

Piyush Jindals' name is Piyush and he is from Louisiana. If a DUer said He was from India then that would be a lie.

[Marrah_G]

91. Oh but He DID live in Indonesia

:eyes:

Sounds absurd right?

See where I am going with this?

This sort of crap makes us just like them.

Using a persons ethnicity as a weapon against them.

It is wrong when they do it and it is wrong if we do it.

[Uzybone]

99. Yeah he did, but he is not from there

lets not conflate lies with the truth.

Piyush it really Gov. Jindals name. His parents are really Indian and he is really from Baton Rouge.

Barack is really Obamas name, but he is really from Hawaii, not Indonesia.

I really understand all you guys points, but really...most people calling Gov Jindal by his real name (the name his parents call him) are not being racist. We all know he is Indian, he celebrates it, I'm not trying to make him the "other".

[Marrah_G]

103. They are using it as a weapon against him

They may not be racists, but they are using racist language and behavior.

Here is a great example posted today:


5. Yeah...I think I've spoken to his brother Billy at Dell tech support
I can't understand him either.

[Uzybone]

141. That is clearly racist

and shouldn't be tolerated.

But calling the man by his given name? A name he uses on official documents? Calling that racist is a stretch. Impolite, maybe. Petty, maybe. But racist? Hell no.

[Marrah_G]

151. So there was no issue with the freepers doing it to Obama to highlight his foriegness?

Because it is after all....his name.

It's the intent. People felt it was okay for our side to do it because it was aimed at our opponent.

It was wrong when they did it and wrong when we do it.

[Uzybone]

156. The guys name is Barack Obama, I doubt they needed highlight "foreigness"

They did it to imply he was Muslim. Barack Obama is foreign sounding enough.

I personally didn't have an issue with BHO, or Barack Hussein Obama, or Barack H. Obama. Neither did Barack.

Hussein Obama or B. Hussein Obama would be a little bit crossing th line, because it minimizes his first name and accentuates his middle name for nefarious purpose.

Bobby isn't even Piyushs' middle name. I always thought it was his middle name but its a made up name.

I really get why you guys are upset at calling him Piyush, but to brand people as racist for calling a man his name is unfair. Piyush Jindal uses the name on official documents, its not like he is trying to hide it.

[akbacchus_BC]

308. Marrah_G, Totally agree with you ...."It was wrong when they did it

and wrong when we do it."

The quote in your post at #103 is absolutely disgusting and extremely racist.

I hope the owners and moderators will be able to deal with this level of racism.

[dustbunnie]

108. Technically, anyone who is racist can have tons of fun with a name like Obama.

No need to go to middle names if that's the kind of person you are. The reason people started to insert the HUSSEIN in there was to make an obvious comparison between Obama with what they believed to be an Iraqi dictator.

This isn't exactly the case here. If people hate Jindal for bigoted reasons, why bother with his first name? The last already speaks to his ancestry. Guess that's what I can't wrap my head around.

[Marrah_G]

114. Because it points out his "differentness" for lack of a better word.

[dustbunnie]

137. Well, it's always going to be "different" until people on every side stop saying it is.

That's what always gets me. The correct answer to my mind, as someone with an odd, foreign-sounding name, is to say "what a beautiful name," not, "OMG, it's foreign-sounding so never use it!!!!!!!" It's much more appreciated. But that's just an opinion.

(If he were mine, I'd probably call him Yushie-tushie.)

[Marrah_G]

142. That is very true- but that is not how it is being used here today

It was and is being used in much the same way freepers were slinging Hussien around. We knew what it was then. We know what it is now.

We have to stop excusing behavior just because it is aimed at the opponent.

[dustbunnie]

155. I haven't read all the threads -

but guess what I'm saying is, when people seem to be degrading others using their names in a racist, taunting fashion, the best way to counterbalance that is to point out that it's a lovely name and what of it? It seems to work much better than to respond by saying that the use of the name itself is in some way "bad." That isn't inclusive at all.

It just feeds the bigotry, or fuels the taunting. I can tell you from personal experience, whenever I've been teased, it was the people who spoke up and said my name was lilting or beautiful, that I remember so well, and their words I appreciated. When people said things like "don't call her that," it just made me feel worse because it implied that there was something wrong with my name. If anyone named Piyush read any of the threads here today, he'd be thankful if he changed his name to something like Bobby, because obviously EVERYONE thinks it's a name that's "different" and needs defending.

[Marrah_G]

159. But it wasn't being said in a nice way

And that is where the problem came in.

[dustbunnie]

168. I know that. I'm not articulating well.

I'm saying, as someone with a little experience in the area :D that the best way to counteract bigotry of this nature is to approach the issue as the fictional Jesus would have. Through constant gentle reminders that all names are beautiful, even the ones that seem unique to us. Not to fight back in a way that feeds the bigotry. Next time someone makes fun of Obama, or the name of a co-worker or neighbor, just keep answering with "it's a gorgeous name, it rolls so beautifully off the tongue," and you'll see it shuts people right up.

You know some of what you're labeling as bigoted, is really only childishness. If his name was Ezekiel Arschgeige and he had taken on a nickname people would be taunting that too.

[Marrah_G]

169. I think it's important to distinguish the action from the person.

And yes, I agree, it stems from childishness.

[StatGirl]

230. I completely agree with this point

I think the two situations are analogous -- and I hated it when the wingnuts did it. We shouldn't stoop to their level.

[Crunchy Frog]

474. I used to see posts like that on DU during the primaries.

Fortunately, I think there was a fairly low level of tolerance for them on the part of the mods.

[mwb970]

62. I knew a guy named Fay Kay Chin who went by "Hank". /nt

[pipi_k]

90. At my last job, I knew a few Japanese

people who came here (to work at companies that sell industrial machines) who also took American names.

One guy's Japanese name was Akira...he called himself "Andy".

I thought it was sort of touching, really. He looked rather formal and forbidding, but he chose a name that made him sound like a teddy bear. You can tell a lot about people by the names they choose for themselves.

:)

[burythehatchet]

65. I was born in India and immigrated to the US when I was 10

My principal in 4th grade looked at my name and gave me another name. I went by that name until I graduated college.

The inclination to use the man's given name is based on an appeal to xenophobic sentiment. As I said on the other threads, there were two Indian families that we knew who named their young boys Bobby. One still calls himself Bobby because he works in a field where there are not many Indians.

There is no difference between this and between accentuating Barack's middle name.

[PVnRT]

74. Exactly what I've been thinking

People here were pissed at the righties who said "Barack HUSSEIN Obama." This is really no different.

[Skinner]

144. Thanks for sharing your personal experience.

I think you state it very well when you say calling him by his real name is "based on an appeal to xenophobic sentiment". Like you, I see little difference between this and drawing attention to Obama's middle name.

[TorchTheWitch]

419. If his given name was John instead of Piyush

we wouldn't be having this conversation. So, of course it's based on an appeal to xenophibic sentiment. The twisted logic being used to justify the use of his given name is truly embarrassing.

[blondeatlast]

459. "Xemophobic sentiment" is exactly what my husband's cohort (as I explained above)

was appealing to.

My husband isn't the least bit ashamed of his name--I use it even in social settings--but he prefers his friends to address him otherwise. Therefore, if anyone else besides me chooses to use his Indian name, I assume there is suggestion of xenophobia.

Context is crucial--using Jundal's non-preferred name on DU I would consider at least xenophobuc--it is meant to "other" him.

[pettypace]

293. BS on Hussein

Anyone who takes offense to the use of Hussein in any context shows that they themselves have prejudice against Muslims.

If my first, middle, or last name is Hussein, I'll be damn glad to be called that in any way, shape, or form...period.

As for the POTUS himself, if he wants to hide his middle name, he better damn well change it then.

[cottonseed]

331. That's BS

If I'm sitting down and having a conversation with someone about Obama and they make a point to stress "Hussein" I'd consider them a fucking idiot and not worth any more of my time. I just find the "Piyush" defenders annoying for that reason. Is there nothing better to bust his ass on?

[dkf]

403. What did your parents think when the name they gave you was

replaced by your Principal?

I'd be PISSED if that happened to my kid. Isn't that beyond presumptuous?

OMG, you were renamed by some stranger because he didn't like the one you were born with.

I'm glad you are happy about it, but it makes me feel really sad.

[Zuiderelle]

66. I think it's exactly like when the RW makes a point of using Barack Hussein Obama's middle name.

It's a way to use racism or xenophobia or whatever the hell it is to make an idiotic point, and it's in ridiculously bad taste. A lot like a thread I just saw here calling him "Slumdog Millionaire." I hate racism, no matter what side it's on.

[tavalon]

100. Yup, and it's not like we don't have anything on him that isn't childish and racist

He just told the American people that when they think of Hurricane Katrina, they should think of the Republicans as the way of the future or something. I mean, really, he really, really, tied the Republicans to Katrina. He's the best thing we've had since Sarah Palin.

[nc4bo]

148. Yep, that's how I feel too.

I realize now that xenophobic describes what is happening with Jindal accurately. I don't see either Puke or Dem emphasizing his physical appearance and features.

Racism AND xenophobia describes what the RW were doing to Barack HUSSEIN Obama. A double whammy. They not only tried to emphasize his foreignness but also his skin color and physical features.

I had to take a minute to google up the differences between xenophobia and racism/bigotry.

I think I got it right now but I still feel the exact same way and that is, that we (as in the Democratic family) are so much better than this.

[jberryhill]

71. I don't remember anyone calling Eisenhower "Dwight" /nt

[pipi_k]

75. I don't have an unusual name, but I do shorten it

because I prefer the shortened version. Probably because when I was younger and my mother was upset with me she used my whole name, so if someone calls me by the longer version of my name it just makes me feel sort of creepy, like I've done something wrong.

Yeah, I know..crazy stuff.

But there it is...


OTOH, Mr Pip has nicknamed me "Lucy" (which is as far away from my real name as you can get) and I rather like it. :)

[mikelgb]

76. I am reminded of the scene in Robin Hood: Men in Tights:

Where Maid Marian is about to be wed to the Sheriff of Roittingham and the Abbot has to use his proper name which is Mervin, and they jab at him and make fun for several minutes

My name is Mikel but it is pronounced "Michael" I personally think my spelling is more phonetic but I always get "Meekul" or "Mickul" my whole life or cards addressed to Michael...

And indeed I had an Indian friend that although he was named David went by the last part of his surname "Pudi"


While indeed childish, name-calling or the like means different things to different people, but I don't think it is that hurtful.... and it is not reserved for ethnic minorities either.

[burythehatchet]

78. You're a smart dude, Skinner. Regardless of whatever results, you managed to

bring this to light to many posters. Some will recognize the un-democratic sentiment, and sadly some will not.

[madmom]

79. My reply from a different post. While it is not "non-western", I think the sentiment is the same.

When I was 2 weeks old my dad gave me a nick-name. It was a odd name that makes some people laugh. My real name is a common "old school" name. When I was in jr hi and hi school I went by my nick name because it was different. Now that I'm a GROWN UP, it doesn't bother me one way or another which name people call me, because you see I've GROWN UP. I'm an ADULT now. I've gotten past the"funny name" thing. Oh and my nick-name had all kinds of "funny" deviations put to it by people trying to insult, but I ignored them. People still call me by both and I have no problem with that.

[Towlie]

80. "How would you feel", you ask? That's exactly what I hope the Republicans will now ask themselves.

[Sebastian Doyle]

256. The Republicans will continue to be hypocrites, of course

Just like they spent the entire 90's calling Bill Clinton a "pot smoking draft dodger", and then accused anyone who referred to Chimpy as a "coke snorting deserter" of being "unpatriotic".

Even though Chimpy was, in fact, a coke snorting deserter.

[NightWatcher]

84. My sis-in-law is South Korean and gave herself an "American" name, but has reverted to her birth

name as of late.

[Solly Mack]

85. Not non-Western but definitely French and I've been called rude names because of it

It's obvious when some people say my name just what their not so hidden meaning is...it's all in how they say it or what they follow it with...

The man's name is Bobby Jindal.

I do wonder why he opted for Bobby - but only because I would find it sad if he opted for it to "fit in" .....because other people made fun of it. Is he now Bobby because of other people's racism and cruelty? And wouldn't that be ironic? (considering this thread)

[PCIntern]

88. The used to call me "youknow,thatasshole"

but now they call me Doctor Asshole.

[Uzybone]

92. I have a very non-western given name

and since its my name, thats what everyone calls me. Yeah some mangle it, but most people get it right the 3rd time.

If you can say supercalifragelisticespialidocious, you can say my name.

I have little respect for Piyush and others who take fake names because thiers are "hard" to pronounce. It didn't take us that long to learn how to pronounce Blagoyevich did it?

America in general needs to get used to different names, we got used to Polish names, German names, why not African and Asian names?

[LynneSin]

95. I once asked a co-worker about this ages ago (she was Indian)

She did the name switch because she felt it was easier for others to pronounce however she felt both names were acceptable.

[blueraven95]

101. my grandparents changed their last name

in the 50s because at the time it wasn't a good idea to be in the performing arts and have a very Jewish sounding last name. Since it happened 30 years before I was born, it doesn't really effect me at all, but I believe my grandmother would be both confused and disconcerted if someone suddenly started calling her Mrs. Myrowitz now.

I think what is really at issue is the intent. I believe what we are seeing here at DU right now is vicious, unnecessary, sophomoric, and we are better than this. There are far better ways to bring down an opponent then personal attacks, and if the man wants to be called Bobby, then call him Bobby.

[Waiting For Everyman]

105. I've been called names all my life merely for having red hair.

Big freakin' deal, get over it. Nobody started an outrage for me about it - ever. I mean NEVER ONCE, including right up until this moment. I'm kind of sick of every other groups' sensitivities, and being constantly "made aware" of them by self-appointed pontificators of all stripes.

I'm not willing to tiptoe for anyone. I don't dislike anyone's nationality or heritage, but when I express an opinion of any kind, I don't allow editing of it from others. Period.

This is such overblown nannyism, it's incredible. The man's in politics. He knows he's Indian. This is called a fact. I think the FACT of people stating his original name can hardly be a surprise to him. No more than people making rude comments about my hair. If I can survive it, I think he can too.

Some people did not know that Piyush was his original name. This is called information. You know, that thing we exchange sometimes.

[LostinVA]

120. Your post is very.... interesting

Oh boy.

So, not being racist/sexist/homophobic, etc. is "overblown nannyism"?

[Waiting For Everyman]

170. How about not being red-hair-phobic? Where's the consideration for MY heritage?

Or doesn't that matter? It's very clear to me that this is all Political Correctness on steroids. If it weren't, then I'd see some consideration too... which believe me, never happens. It's all very selective. To me, this is super-trivia.

[LostinVA]

174. Even more... interesting

[sniffa]

496. Who's afraid of the fire bush?

:shrug:

[Skinner]

122. So, am I correct to infer from your post...

...that you believe it was not a big deal when Obama's political opponents called him "Barack HUSSEIN Obama"? They were just exchanging information, and had no ulterior motive?

[Waiting For Everyman]

167. Did they say "John SIDNEY McCain" as well?

If they didn't, then yes, I'd suspect an innuendo was intended. You're comparing apples and oranges.

"Barack" is not an "American" name, and nobody made a big deal about trying not to call him that, including Pres. Obama. Nobody demanded that he be called "Barry" as his friends do, did they? That's just as much his "real" name.

There was no problem about his name being foreign. It was the attempt to connect the specific name "Hussein" to Saddam Hussein in the public mind. THAT is different.

[LostinVA]

175. Nope, it's apples and apples

[Waiting For Everyman]

179. Well I can solve the problem.

I'll just refer to Jindal as "Pre-existing Condition" Jindal. It's how he defined himself, and I believe him.

Or "Shit on a Stick" would work just as well. But that's my opinion of him, regardless of his background. There, is that better?

[LostinVA]

182. Yes, it is

Thanks again for showing that you Really Don't Wish to Get It.

:thumbsup:

[Waiting For Everyman]

183. There you go, you got my point.

Slicing and dicing definitions of supposed-racism isn't worth doing, imo. I'm too busy looking for boogey-men under my bed.

[LostinVA]

205. Glad you are admitting it for all to see

[Waiting For Everyman]

211. Small minds fight small battles. This one's microscopic.

[LostinVA]

237. I figure civil rights and an inclusive society are big battles -- interesting you don't

This "Nannyist" wishes you future understanding of why you are wrong.

[Waiting For Everyman]

246. Nice inflation attempt. This is one goofy rethug gov. and one overblown incident

on a message board. Don't flatter yourself. Your "crusading" about this is going nowhere.

:puffpiece:

However, one good epiphany came from it... I can now answer Zappa's old question... "Who Are the Brain Police?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLnqMW6sIM4

[demmiblue]

289. His friends do not call him Barry.

:eyes:


His name, his choice (as applied to both).

[Waiting For Everyman]

353. Oh, then you know that because you're his friend, are you? Awesome!

Because other people who are/were his friends have said they called him "Barry".

[demmiblue]

475. Do your research and get back to me. Links would be nice.

[Waiting For Everyman]

483. Do your own research.

[leftchick]

110. my father was christened "Valentine"

he is a 100% Slovak and first generation American. When he joined the navy at 18 years he had his name legally changed to William. I have always respected his choice of name change.

[LostinVA]

111. k&r including for my friend Brian, whose name isn't Brian

But, who goes by Brian.

[Bread and Circus]

112. I think the whole "Piyush" thing as played here on DU has been disgusting...

It's right up there with Ann Coulter and her "Barry HUSSEIN Obama" shenanigans. I wish people would stop. Yes, his given name is Piyush but we know what you are doing.

A little more thoughtfulness, a little less Freep please.

[alcibiades_mystery]

129. Absolutely agree

Those pushing Piyush are either racists, or just ignorant. It's a disgrace to this board.

[Aristus]

115. My problem is not with his name, but with his politics.

End of story.

[bridgit]

117. what

[struggle4progress]

121. Over the years, I've met lots of foreign names with American nicknames

My general practice has been to call the person whatever s/he asked me to call him/her at first; when I get to know a person better, I generally try to learn the correct pronunciation of the real name -- which is sometimes easy and sometimes not; if I can pronounce the real name adequately by their standards, I'll call the person that, and I generally get some indication of whether I'm doing any adequate job

Example:

Me: What's you real name, "Doris"
"Doris": Skeezix
Me: Zeekix?
"Doris": Skeezix
Me: Zeeskisk? Is that right? Zeeskisk?
"Doris": Just call me "Doris"

In the present case, I currently have no idea how to pronounce Piyush correctly, so I'd be inclined to call him "Bobby" if an appropriate occasion arose: when posting at DU, however, I'll probably use Jindal or the wacko governor of Louisiana

[Marrah_G]

127. I would go with "the wacko governor of Louisiana" Has a nice ring to it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

124. Growing up my Swedish given name was constantly....

misspelled or mispronounced, so I adopted a very easy to say/spell nickname at 7 and have stayed with it all my life. Since my name change was not an attempt to get away from my ethnicity, I have no problems if someone calls me by it, and am delighted if someone actually gets it right. :D

With that said, Mr. Jindal prefers to be addressed as Bobby, so I will honor that.

Pushing the Indian name he does not commonly use is like (IMO) freepers harping on "Hussein" or Puma's harping on "Barry" -- it's stupid bullshit.

On edit: I had been noticed the trend of the use of his given first name. In reading many of the threads, it is very clear that the use of his first name is being used as a taunt, an insult. And it reflects badly on our community.

[alcibiades_mystery]

125. A former boss used to anglicize my name

I stopped responding completely, pretending that I didn't understand he was calling me. He soon learned better, though I think he was bitter that he had to call me by my more latinate name.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

128. I too am uneasy with the whole Piyush thing....but...

.....isn't there SOMETHING to be said about throwing it back in their faces? Anything?

I'm a gay man and I don't feel the least bit insulted when people crack jokes about "wide stance" republicans. I know it's not the exact same issue but it goes to exposing hypocrisy. Can't we poke a little stick in to their big hypocritical ribs without crossing the line?

If it insults him, I don't care. If it's racist, I do care.

I don't think calling him by his given name is racist. Calling him "Gunga Dim" and "Slumdog Millionaire" crosses the line.

[burythehatchet]

132. The gray area is when you don't see it as racist, but a group of people most certainly

interpret it that way. Then what is it? And if you know that a group receives the message in a racist fashion, do you continue to do it because you don't think its racist?

[G_j]

412. if it offends a group, sometimes even one person

why not find another avenue to express whatever it is I'm trying to express? Language is a deep well.
I just think it's easy to avoid, once you become aware if a certain word or expression 'offends' people that you would really rather get along with,
In this case, the Republicans are so loathsome, and this arrogant person is laying down the the most vile message.
Still, it's so much more important to live and learn to avoid conflict in a community when it comes to language.

[ecstatic]

130. The trend on DU is born of snark not racism

I don't really participate in it because many people have expressed offense, so I take them at their word that it's offensive.

However, I think it's no different that the other controversies on this board--like outing republicans, or calling out female republicans who hate women, or calling out Steele, etc. When a racial or gender minority is involved, the issue gets a bit complicated. I guess most of DU's snark should be reserved for republican white men? :shrug:

[pipi_k]

153. Yep, I agree

More snark than racism, I think.



although it would be interesting to know what the replies would be if Jindal were a Democrat and the Repubs were referring to him by his "real" name.

Would we all be jumping up and down, accusing Freepers, for example, of blatant racism?

someone else up above pointed out that this whole issue seems to be a real slippery slope, and I agree. Lots of shades of gray here to deal with...

[Coexist]

208. some would, but some freaked out over Hussien, too

its his name. Its not who he is.

[Coexist]

207. you put it very well.

and I'm tired seeing non-stop charges of racism and sexism and homophobia to everyone who uses sarcasm or humor and others insist on reading the lowest common denominator into it.

When people said Barack Hussein Obama, it didn't offend me, and it didn't appear to offend President Obama.

And I don't CARE that he prefers to be called Bobby. If we insisted on calling republicans by the names they prefer, then every other post would need to be deleted. Its absurd. Cheney prefers Dick - he'll always be Darth to me. Blitzer would prefer Wolf, but Leslie it is.

[ChickMagic]

131. This is a tough one for me

I was extremely proud to hear Obama say his name at his inauguration as Barack Hussein Obama. I understand that he went by Barry in school.

I don't think of Piyush Jindal as an insult. I think it's a lovely name. Bobby is kind of jarring. But, whatever floats his boat. I usually go with a person's self identification.

[burythehatchet]

134. It all goes to intent. I don't see his name as something to be ashamed of, my name is equally

Indian ethnic. It is what the person's intent is that matters.

[Numba6]

135. Yes, I do -- & it's perfectly legal -- you don't have to go to court to change ur name

don't matter... you can call yourself by any nickname, use it on legal documents, checks, etc.

As long as you are not trying to hide your true identity for fraudulent or criminal purposes, or fake an official document/SSN/etc. by pretending to be someone else.

---

I have a very unusual first name, went by it for 1/2 my life, and when I moved at one point just started introducing myself as an aglicized(?)/normal version of it. I still go by the old name w/ older friends.

I'd give it as an example but it's pretty unique & would rather not ID myself

That's also why I understood very well why "Barack" went by "Barry" when he was younger. It's very common, and very understandable action

It doesn't require "political ambitions", nor does it HAVE to do w/ rejecting your heritage (although it can). It just means you want to fit in, and rather than constantly have to say "It's spelled/pronounced THIS WAY rather than YOUR WAY" it's simply easier for people you meet, IMHO.

[bikebloke]

136. I knew a Norwegian named Børge.

He told people his name was Michael, because people couldn't pronounce Børge. I was the only one that could.

[Numba6]

138. he had a pole in his hand that would gorge...(finish the limerick, plesse)

[bikebloke]

160. You'd better call him Michael.

Børge is pronounce bur-gah.:)

[Numba6]

220. So he had a Whopper in his hand?

[Ikonoklast]

286. Hope his last name wasn't

Anfrise.

:hide:

Sorry, I had to take a swing at it.


There is a reason I have our President's full name as part of my sigline, it's a kinda 'in-your-face' at those that would use a person's given name as some sort of way to delineate them as 'other' or 'not-us'. It is a subtle form of xenophobia with racist overtones.

You don't like a man's name, well, that is your problem, not his.

Gov. Jindal can go by whatever name he sees fit to publicly call himself, I see no reason to diminish, question, or deride his decision. The names we have for ourselves are a distinctly personal matter.

We should honor the wishes of those that prefer to be addressed as they see fit, not as we see it.

There are things of far more import to take issue with Jindal than this; but he is as American as anyone I know.

[dbmk]

307. Case in point. :)

It is not pronounced like that. :)

Its more like Burwe. (u like in duh)
Or George with a B and a very soft g.

[Numba6]

499. So we're back to "gorge"??????

[ozu]

140. Some

Naresh -> Nick
Muhammad -> Mo
Chen -> Stan

They are all 1st generation and have been called their Americanized names since childhood. While I don't think it's insulting to refer to any of them by their given names, I don't do it out of respect for what they choose to be called in everyday life.

[pipi_k]

143. In response to the original question

...I'm curious what you think of DUers referring to Bobby Jindal by his given name "Piyush" instead of his preferred name "Bobby"?



I don't think anything bad of people who refer to him by his given name. It's his name. I don't know his family, but it's probable they refer to him by that name.

He prefers to be known by "Bobby", so that's how I'll refer to him.

But do I feel people are being racist in calling him by his given name? No.



Me...I call people what they want to be called.

Well, except for my son. His name is Robert and he calls himself "Rob" but I have always called him "Bob". My mom, however, still calls him "Bobby".

But moms and grandmas can get away with that sort of thing. ;)

[starroute]

147. My Jewish immigrant grandparents all westernized their names

It makes it really hard to find them and their siblings in the immigration records and censuses -- Moritz turned into Morris, Malka into Molly, Simcha Leah into Sophie Lila, Geza into George. One of my grandmothers then decided when she was about 10 that even "Diane" was too foreign, adopted a completely different first name from a classmate she admired, and went by that other name for the rest of her life.

But the situation with Jindal seems different somehow. It's partly because he didn't westernize his name or even change it legally -- it's still "Piyush" in the phone listings. He simply adopted a little-kid nickname and has used that in his public life.

There's also the fact that he converted from Hinduism to Catholicism as a teenager. That really bothers me for some reason -- partly because Hindus often seem to be a target for conversion by Christian evangelicals, but also because it suggests Jindal is trying to run away from his own heritage.

But ultimately, the issue I see isn't about Jindal. It's about the sense I get that many Republicans are eager to embrace "acceptable" immigrants like Jindal as a cover for their rabid anti-immigrant attitudes when it comes to Hispanics.

It's become clear since yesterday that if even a forum like DU can't avoid slipping into overt racial smears when discussing Jindal, then we've got to clean up our own act before attacking the Republicans for their hypocrisy. But it also has to be possible to discuss the question and not turn it into one of the great unmentionables.

[Chulanowa]

150. I have several names I go by, depending on the situation

My given name, a nickname, and a religious name (for lack of a better term). Calling me one of them outside of context would irritate me.

Similarly my mother was named "Beverly". It means "Dweller of the Beaver Meadows" and as a young kid, she had prominent front teeth. So she decided she wanted to be called "Denise" in order to avoid the obvious taunting. She now goes by Denise exclusively, and gets very irritated when someone insists on calling her "Beverly"

As others have said, this stuff about calling the man "Piyush" is meant to push the xenophobia buttons. Especially when it gets paired with stupid jokes about outsourcing or tech support. It's not over-the-top racism or anything, but it's disrespect paired with a mocking of his heritage. If you want to disrespect him, I got no problem - he's an idiot. But I'm sure we have better things to throw at him than his own name. The "Hussein" thing made the right look like idiots, and now we're looking like idiots by doing the same thing.

[Starry Messenger]

154. I think people who do this know exactly what they are doing.

If you have not been explicitly invited to call someone by another name, it is common courtesy to call them by their commonly used name.

[LostinVA]

178. I think they do, too

Haruka prefers being called a diminutive of her first name -- only certain people call her by her full first name (her mother, for example). When I'm being sarcastic or trying to make an annoying point, I'll call her by her full first name. Hey! It's her real name!

[blondeatlast]

461. Interesting how common manners seem to go astray on the 'nets.

To me, that's the key--the former Barry Obama has expressed a desire to be referred to as Barack.

The former Priyush Jundal has expressed a desire to be referred to as Bobby.

To refer to either one as anything else is not something I'd consider doing--because it would shame ME. I was taught manners using the "wouldn't be caught dead" example!

[ZombieNixon]

163. I don't go by a "more common" name.

(I do allow my girlfriend to call me a nickname, but that's about it).

From this perspective (I'm Indian-American), it's somewhat disturbing to see this subtle undercurrent of racism among DUers. I doubt it's conscious, except perhaps for a few trolls. I think most people see it as payback for what the Republicans did with "Hussein," but that doesn't make it any better. When the Republicans demonized "Hussein," how did the many American Arabs or Muslims feel when their name was used in a way to show how "foreign" it was. I'm guessing not too good. If there are any DUers named "Piyush," I'm thinking they're not too happy about what's happening now.

Someone chooses to go by a name, and that should be respected, whatever the reason. I don't care if Jindal took his name from Bobby Brady when he was four, or to make himself "whiter" when he was twenty-four. It's what he wants to be called, and I'll respect that, however much he annoys me, scares me, and yes, makes me want to apologize for being Indian-American. Really, how is this any different from meeting a guy named PJ and yet insisting on calling him Phillip whenever you meet?

OK, the difference is the sneer with which people say "Piyush" and follow it up with telemarketer and Slumdog Millionaire jokes. Sure, it feels good to get back at Republicans for Hussein, but it was consciously racist when they did it. It's at least subconsciously culturally insensitive when we do it.

[Marrah_G]

438. I am not sure I can express how sorry I am at what has gone on here the last two days

It's embarrassing, disappointing and has aimed a bright light on areas we need to desperately improve on.

I have a very close friend who is Indian, I've almost invited him to come join DU a few times. I'm glad he wasn't here yesterday. it would have broken my heart if he saw that behavior from fellow democrats.

[blondeatlast]

462. I'm married to an Indian and am glad I'm not the only one who perceives

the undercurrent of racism here. I think it's often so clever and subtle that unless one has a personal stake one can't perceive it. I've alerted on a few posts that I thought were glaring--but remained. I hionestly don't think the mods can see it that well and I really don't fault them, I simply try to educate them.

[ZombieNixon]

480. I think it's very easy to overlook instances of subtle discrimination or derision when you don't

have a stake in it. Stuff occasionally goes down around here regarding homophobia or racism and those not part of the affected group are slow to recognize it, if at all. In the worst instances, the offense is perceived as faux outrage over nothing, and it very easy to fall into that trap when you're not the ones being targeted. I think that 99% of all these instances are unwitting on the part of the offenders, but the fact that these stereotypes still exist and are so prominent in the minds of many so as to be drudged up on the spur of the moment shows we have a long way to go.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

164. K&R.

Huge thank you for this.

[nichomachus]

166. Where were all the complainers

when people constantly referred to Mitt Romney as Willard? That was all over DU and all the other lefty message boards. No one wrote heart-rending screeds about how we shouldn't call him be his given name, but rather use the nickname he had chosen to replace it.

Why is Jindal being given special treatment hereÇ

[Marrah_G]

171. Because the motives are far different.

Willard wasn't used to point out his foreignness in a way that made that foreignness seem "bad".

[sledgehammer]

184. Perhaps, but...

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for calling people by the names they prefer (see my post downstream). But the motives in calling Bobby Piyush are not necessarily racist/xenophobic.

There was a reason for freepers to use Hussein, because they wanted to tie him with Muslims and what not. But the majority of DUers don't seem to have a reason to associate Bobby Jindal with India for any reason. But say if he starts a major campaign supporting offshoring American jobs especially to India, then I could start seeing some motives (whether implicit or explicit).

Interestingly, the majority of DUers did have a reason to call Mitt Willard - to expose his dorkiness (apologies to anyone named Willard on this board, but I am just pointing out the motives here, not my personal opinion on the name Willard). I know that potential racism/xenophobia pales in comparison to this, but in either case people are acting like playground bullies.

Regardless of all this discussion, I'm happy and proud to live in an America where the two top names being floated for an upcoming Presidential election are Barack Hussein Obama and Piyush Bobby Jindal!

[Marrah_G]

188. I never called him Williard. I called him "mittens"

And I called him that because I despise him for the rich, arrogant asshole that he is. Being from Mass I had a front row seat. Absolutely childish and immature. But not Racist.

If people were using Jindals name in a different manner, like " hey did you know his name is Piyush? what at cool sounding, beautiful name. I wonder why he doesn't use it?" THAT would be completely different then the way it was being used here this morning.

There were some blatantly racists remarks made in those threads.

I believe they are deleted now, thank you Skinner.

[sledgehammer]

201. I never said you called him Willard

I had no idea you called him Mittens. I think this is the first post I've ever read from you (I'm relatively new at just over 200 posts ;). But a lot of DUers did call him Willard, and will continue to do so. For whatever reasons they may have. Some made fun of Mitt's magic underwear, and a lot of people ridicule his religion (and all religions frankly) on this board. It's generally considered acceptable.

In the same vein, people will call Bobby Piyush. A few may have racist/xenophobic motives to do so, but I think most will not.

BTW, if you want to see some racist/xenophobic sentiment, here's a post I made in response to some a post titled "Indian H-1B visa techies in US may lose jobs in Microsoft". I know the comments were made with economic intentions, but things can deteriorate quickly on this board:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3707220&mesg_id=3710932

[CreekDog]

221. good rule of thumb is: does what you're doing refer to the person or also to their group

...a group they belong to through no action of their own.

[sledgehammer]

242. Interesting way to think of it...

...and certainly a good rule of thumb. Thanks for that. But at the same time, it depends on how far you extend it i.e. what defines a "group"?

My rule of thumb is that when you meet someone, use the name they introduce themselves with and/or publicly known by. But in discussion forums, I'm not sure if the same rules apply. You will start seeing xenophobic/racist sentiment from the context of the comments.

[Coexist]

212. but he prefers Mitt?!

and yet you give him a name of your choosing that mocks him.

[Marrah_G]

222. Yes- it mocks him for his behavior not for his race or ethnic background.

There is a difference.

Like if you were to make fun of Jindal by calling him something associated with his volcano or katrina remarks.

That's very different from using an ethnic name in a snarky or mean tone.

The use of that same ethnic style name can also be very loving and complimentary.

It all depends on the manner in which it is being used and by whom.

I am sure Mitts wife could call him Mittens in bed and it would take on a very different tone then how I use it, which is clearly NOT in a complimentary manner.

Your snark filled post was a FAIL.

[Coexist]

226. so I can make fun of a white person with a funny first name, but not an Indian one?

that is what you are saying. YOU CHOOSE how I AM THINKING. Really. It must be so nice to be so omnipotent.

John Sydney McCain - that is a hoot to me. And I can snark all I want because he's white. you are unreal.

[Marrah_G]

231. And you are twisting yourself in knots to excuse behavior you know is wrong.

[Coexist]

238. if I knew it was wrong I wouldn't say anything at all

its not wrong. I will not let people tell me what I mean by something.

If Condasleeza is okay, if Wide-Stance is okay, if Darth Cheney is okay, if Mittens, Willard, Sydney, Mann, Mrs. Greenspan are okay - then for crying out loud, a man's given name is okay.

Call me what you want - humor/sarcasm/mocking is part of this board - I refuse to walk on eggshells for Piyush "Bobby" Jindal because you think I should. Period.

I'm not insecure enough to allow your questioning my motives to change me.

Sorry.

Fail.

[MattBaggins]

217. If he was trying to cover up a "dorky" name like Williard

why did he choose Mitt?

[sledgehammer]

232. I have no idea...

...and have no interest in knowing what goes on in Romney's mind. When a guy can do something like the "Who let the dogs out" thing, I don't bother to try to understand what they are thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDwwAaVmnf4

Personally, I think both names are fine though. It's his choice to use whatever name he wants. I would suggest he use Dumbass, but perhaps that's too accurate!

[nichomachus]

185. Where can I buy a pair of those magic glasses that let me see people's motives?

[Marrah_G]

187. Funny- I don't need glasses to see your post is full of snark.

or to discern the meaning of your post.

[nichomachus]

193. Get a grip

Making fun of people's names is as old as politics. It has happened for hundreds of years and it's going to continue to happen.

We called Mitt by his given name, we called Bush anything but George W. Bush, we called McCain a hundred different variations of his name, we called Sarah Palin a bunch of different things.

All of a sudden people on DU are running around shrieking because others are doing it to Jindal.



We need a good dose of something important to worry about.

[Marrah_G]

196. I have a grip.

This particular instance is far different from the examples you have given and I am pretty sure you know that.

[Coexist]

210. Piyush is used in the same mocking way that Willard and Sydney were - you CHOOSE to see it as racist

big difference.

[Marrah_G]

224. No it really was not being used that way this morning.

It was very clearly not being used in that manner.

[Coexist]

228. everyone who used Piyush today was being racist?

Please list all the posts and explain how you knew there was racism involved.

[Marrah_G]

234. No- Some were using it in taunting, snarky manner with racial undertones.

Others were commenting on how they liked the name.

Still others were remarking on how they wished his family hadn't felt the need to give him a more "american" sounding name.

And another was even refering to his brother "Billy" at Dell Tech Suppport (even though he is an American).

His name was used in a number of different ways today. Some good, some bad.

[LostinVA]

239. No, it is xenophobic and racist

[Coexist]

250. to you.

[LostinVA]

424. It should be to you, too -- to everyone

[dkf]

406. Yup, because calling someone blatantly denigrating names isn't as bad

as calling Jindal by his given Indian name.

This is so screwed up.

[MADem]

472. That doesn't suggest that Mittens is "less than" a "real" American.

Willard was the name of a famous American rat, after all.

There are also a shitload of people in America and the western world with the first or last name WILLARD. Would you like a list? Click this link and read away: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willard_(name)

Your effort at deliberate naivete isn't cutting it. Unless you can find me a list of Americans going back to the founding fathers with Bobby's given name, that is.

[starroute]

172. How is this different from referring to Mitt as "Willard Romney"?

The man's name is Willard Mitt Romney -- and he pretty clearly goes by "Mitt" because it has a hunky, all-American sound to it where "Willard" sounds weak and nerdy. He was sometimes referred to as "Willard Romney" during last year's primaries, even here at DU, precisely because of the snark factor. It may have been juvenile and petty, but there was no way it could have been taken as racist.

The fact is that anyone who doesn't go by their given name invites some kind of mockery. If Jindal has to be off limits because using his given name sounds like an invitation to racist insults, I can understand that. But I'm not comfortable with it.

[Hello_Kitty]

225. Sorry, but you're reaching.

The two things are different because they are just different. If there's one thing I really hate it's when a privileged group draws a false equivalence between their experience of something and that of an oppressed group. The worst example of this was a thread on DU where someone actually made the claim that the NY Post cartoon with the chimp was not offensive because we often compared Bush to a chimp.

[sledgehammer]

243. Oppressed group?

Indian-Americans? Really?

[Hello_Kitty]

248. I live near Mesa, AZ. Where a Indian man was shot to death shortly after 9-11.

Because his murderer was apparently unable to distinguish what type of "raghead" he was.

So the answer is, yes.

[sledgehammer]

257. Criminal acts happen

They are sometimes classified as hate crimes. And justice is provided in most cases thanks to the rule of law in this country. So I don't think your example necessarily equates to an "oppressed group". It would be akin to calling white people an oppressed group if a white person is murdered by a Native American or African-American person out of racial motives.

I personally would call an oppressed group one that has been consistently and intentionally denied rights by authority. I can think of many, many groups before Indian-Americans that fall in that category.

FYI, before you think I'm from a "privileged group" and being condescending in any way, I am South Asian myself.

[Hello_Kitty]

261. It's not the frigging Olympics, you know.

This isn't a competition to see which group has it worse. Many people experience both privilege and oppression at the same time. I'm a woman, hence in a traditionally oppressed class. But I'm also white, straight, and able-bodied, hence privileged.

[sledgehammer]

262. Right

But you made the categorization of privileged and oppressed groups in reference to people equating Willard/Mitt and Piyush/Bobby. There are lots of reasons to argue it, but bringing in oppression is, IMO, not valid in this discussion.

So we disagree. Life goes on.

[onenote]

292. Bobby Kennedy invited "mockery" by not going by his given name?

How about Jesse Francis "Jeff" Bingaman (D-NM) or Robert "Bobby" Scott (D-VA)?

[Warren Stupidity]

434. So calling Robert Kennedy Robert Kennedy would be insulting?

[Number23]

381. I did not know that about Willard, err Mitt. How interesting.

[sledgehammer]

173. If you met Elton John or Whoopi Goldberg

...would you say "Hello Reginald, Hello Carynn"?

http://www.zelo.com/firstnames/celebs.asp

Some people like to be called something else other than their given first name. For whatever reason it may be. But it rarely has anything do with hiding your identity. It's just how you like to be called.

Sen. Edward Kennedy likes to be called Ted, President William Clinton likes to be called Bill. True, these are more common nicknames for their original names, but they prefer these names over their original names. What's the harm?

Now if people who changed their names attacked others for changing their names, that would be a different case. But I haven't seen that from Jindal, or anyone else.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

176. K&R

[mod mom]

177. My given name (never use it) is western, but I never met anyone under 89 with it.

I recall how much I hated the first day of school when teachers would use this name and I would be teased. Why not just call folks by the name they prefer? (The exception of course are the fascist/war profiteering/bushies who I regularly refer to as dicks. ;)

[thewiseguy]

181. The answer is no.

Though those in my culture who choose to go by a more common name are later subjected to ridicule for having no self confidence or being embarrassed of where they come from.

[LuckyLib]

190. Everyone has a right to be addressed and known by the name they prefer.

Legal documents may be one thing, family nicknames or original birthnames another. But the name you put out to the public is the name that should be used to refer to you. Governor Jindal has chosen "Bobby".

"Chimpy" -- ???? that's another story! a pejorative reference meant to be humorous!

[nichomachus]

198. Actually not

Calling him the chimp was a reference to his physical appearance -- his resemblance to a simian. In fact, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of illustrations and morphs around the Internet showing the resemblance.

I'm not sure how making fun of someone's physical characteristics is any different than using their given name, rather than a nickname they chose after watching a tv sitcom.

How many people referred to Prince as



when he asked them to?

[Sebastian Doyle]

264. Well, the "Prince" thing is not the best example

Most people didn't bother referring to him by the symbol thing, because there was no audible way to do so, and really no visual way to do it without cutting and pasting the symbol itself.

Yeah there was the "artist formerly known as Prince" semi-formality nickname, but as it turns out, the whole thing was based on the fine print in his WB records contract, which gave the label the legal rights to the name "Prince", even though its on his birth certificate. So when Prince wanted out of his contract because he felt WB was too controlling over his musical output, he found himself unable to release music under his own name. Solution: take the made up symbol (which had appeared on his albums for years anyway) as a "name", release music without WB strings, and pay the price of being called a "weirdo" in the press. And when the legal hassle with WB was finally resolved, he conveniently reclaimed his name.

Even so, most fans just called him "Prince" regardless of what the album cover said.

[InvisibleTouch]

489. I didn't realize that was the story behind the symbol.

Learned something new. Thanks! :)

[Truth2Tell]

194. Thanks for this post Skinner.

Maybe consider jumping into the fray a bit more often? I've been here two years and barely know my host.

[CreekDog]

214. i think he picks his moments

and wisely! :hi:

[auburngrad82]

195. I think the intention is to point out the double standards of the GOP

It's Barack Hussein Obama, he's "muslin" and he's not an American citizen.

Yet, with "Bobby" Jindal, he's the next greatest thing since sliced bread (or Sarah Palin, depending on how far right you are) and I would be willing to bet that most of the GOP's "base" don't even know what Jindal's given name is. If they did they'd spit the Camel right off their lip and spill their Bud all over their porch swing.

The GOP has been very successful at catering to the more racist members of our society, yet now they want to show how "inclusive" they are with an Indian-American candidate for President and an African-American head of the RNC.

I say, bust 'em on the bullshit.

[Hello_Kitty]

218. I don't care what the intention is. It's wrong. eom

[SteelPenguin]

197. I have a non-western (arabic) name

For a brief period I flirted with a 'nickname'. It was a very short period, it felt wrong, and I felt like I was being untrue to who I was, or embarrased about who I was.

Growing up with a non-western name in this country, particularly if you're not obviously white, can be difficult. To this day people make jokes about my name. I'll meet a 35 year old and they'll make a joke about my name, to my face, within seconds or minutes of meeting me. Not everyone does this of course, but enough.

And of course I've heard all the jokes multiple times since I was in Kindergarten.

When I see someone with a 'foreign name' that insists on going by a 'western name' I generally think, based on experience and people I know, that it was 'assigned' to them at some point and they just didn't argue. Mr. Jindal it sounds like grabbed it from the Brady Bunch when he was 5, which to me suggests that even that early on he felt like he was an outsider (which he probably was being forced to be) and he desparately didn't want to be so anymore. The name obviously stuck, and he's Bobby today. I don't think it's right to blame the social insecurity of a 5 year old in Louisiana decades ago to a grown man today. For him to go back to Piyush now would seem wrong.

If someone were to call him Piyush it wouldn't be insulting, but to continue to do so, even after being asked to call him Bobby, or knowing he goes by Bobby, is deliberately rude and insulting. It's not racist per se, just rude and dickish.

[question everything]

203. Wish you post something similar when DUers refer to Andrea Mitchell

as Mrs. Greenspan.

I started reading posts here and am amazed at many who shrug their shoulders and say: oh, but this is his real name, like Barack Hussein Obama.

But it is clear that most DUers who posted under Piyush meant it as a derogatory, were calling on him. Why, someone yesterday referred to him as Gunga Din.

A person has a right to choose by what name s/he wants to be called. Just as minorities do. And to call someone by a different name is disrespect for that person's wishes and a way to put him or her down.

[MattBaggins]

227. I am going to second this

I understand where some folks are legitimately exposing what they see as an attempt by Jindal to hide who he really is, but to call him Piyush when he chose Bobby is still intentionally a derogatory attack and most often is done just to point out that he is a "foreigner".

Intent is everything; and most uses even here at Du seem no different then emphasizing the H in BHO.

[Sebastian Doyle]

266. The context of referring to her as "Mrs. Greenspan" is appropriate

when she is on NBC/MSNBC/CNBC commenting on an economic crisis that her husband is partially responsible for. She has no credibility speaking on such matters, nor does Douche Gregory, who's wife is an executive vice president of Fannie Mae. Admittedly, nobody calls him "Mr. Wilkinson", but then Beth isn't as infamous as Alan Greenspan.

[question everything]

400. She did not change her last name. She is Andrea Mitchell

you can add a commentary about her credibility, or lack thereof, but her name is NOT Mrs. Greenspan. Calling her is as derogatory as calling Jindal Piyush. Unless, of course, you think that he should be called Piyush.

[Iggo]

206. Yep. Happened to me in school all the time.

I got over it.

[iamthebandfanman]

209. i prefer to use my middle name

and people have insisted on calling me by my first name even after stating i prefer my middle...


but thats hardly the same scenerio i suppose.

[BrightKnight]

260. I have that problem too.

I have been using my middle name for all of my adult life. I run into people all the time that think that it us cute to use my first name. There is nothing wrong with my first name but if I tell you may name is x then my name is x. I decide what my name is. There is no discussion.

[BlooInBloo]

223. Because if there are... DUers will happily rip you a new asshole!

Of course, if you don't, then DUers will bitch about how dem dam furriners refuse to assimilate.

God bless Americans.

[Frisbee]

229. Whoops...

I thought by western you meant like "Tex" or "Bucky". :-)

[Hekate]

235. I dated a guy in high school named whose dad named him "Roosevelt"..."But my friends call me Mike"

Possibly the fact that he was on the football team and not a skinny nerd like Jindal had something to do with nobody calling Mike anything worse than "Rosie", after Rosie Grier.

There are an awful lot of Americans whose names seem unusual or hard to pronounce, and they or their friends give them a nickname. A college friend named Jeerawan told me "her friends nicknamed her Jerri." A childhood friend was saddled with a three proud Scottish names and promptly nicknamed "Butch."

Good gravy, we are as bad as the Freepers if we mock a man for his given name. We didn't like it much when they persisted in calling our president "Hussein."

I'm sure Piyush means something wonderful in his parents' native land, but the poor kid probably got beat up a few times before he started saying, "My friends call me Bobby."

Hekate

[GinaMaria]

236. People who address me by my proper first name

# do not know me. Strangers, new co-workers
# are usually sales/marketing people (and mispronounce my name anyway)
# are weird friends of my parents who referenced the birth announcements of me and my siblings before coming over.
# are people I generally do not like. This started when I was a little kid. I even have relatives that don't call me by the name I'm known by. Not a big surprise, these are the relatives I don't really care to be around. Crap, if my own family can't get it right, how on earth could I expect anyone else to?

[BrightKnight]

240. My experience with the people that I work with in India.

I work in IT and about half the co-workers that I talk to every day are in India. Indian names can be very long and the pronunciation of some letters is different. I the past 5 years I have never heard anyone shorten or Americanize their name. Having and using a long name appears to be a kind of mark of dignity. I don't really know much about Indian culture but I doubt that Mr. Jindal's parents would be very comfortable with Americanized names.

As an American Mr. Jindal may be more conformable with the name Bobby. It would be interesting to know when he started to use the name. I doubt that someone named Piyush Jindal could succeed in Louisiana Republican politics.

[blondeatlast]

463. Interesting--I'm married to an Indian who supervises many, many IT

people from India and elsewhere including the US.

The Indians generally shorten or choose another name for one simple reason--even the INDIANS can't get the names of other Indians correctly. That's why in India most people speak English and all students are taught in it.

There are FOURTEEN languages/dialects in common use in Bangalore alone--they use English to get around the cultural/linguistic divides.

BTW, Bobby is a VERY common nicname for Indian youth--even in India. If you want to know of Indian culture, I suggest you talk to a few of your co-workers. Maybe you should ask some of your co-workers about such things. :shrug:

[grantcart]

244. In Thailand everyone has an official name and a nickname.

The official name is used in school and other official places and the nickname is used everywhere else.


I have friends that I have known for years and have no idea what their official name is, just call them "Red" or "Small".


99% of the people have no idea what my wife's real name is. (And oddly her 'official' name was never her real name. When she was 16 and went in to get her national ID card they made a mistake and gave her an entirely different name which she has now used for 40 years - after 30 years of marriage I only found out her real name last year.)


The use of his birth name has IMHO a slightly racist undertone to it, in the same way that people wanted to call Barack by his middle name, in that it is trying to emphasize his race and what is different from the rest of us. I realize that many will do it to try and cause discomfort with Republicans who will not appreciate it and don't really think of it themselves.


If Mr. Jindal wants to call himself Bobby then we should do the same.



But in my heart he will always be Kenneth.

[Lucinda]

247. It's not just non-western names. I was 30 before I figured out my Uncle Mike wasn't a Mike at all.

His birth name was Donald R. Dunno who started calling him Mike. :)

And I go by my middle name. Always have.
My family clearly has weird naming issues. Bunch of crazy nicknamers. :P

[Cleita]

253. Actually, I have found that names chosen for everyday life are often chosen

by others. Like my husband was called Ed because co-workers had a problem with his Irish name. Jesus, a name common among Mexicans is often converted to Jay by Anglos in the work place or they will have their names anglecized like Joe for Jose. Even Obama was called Barry in his youth instead of Barack. I myself have had my name (a pretty common European one) changed by peers to cutsey nicknames. Jindal probably was given his name Bobby by classmates or teachers even though he has claimed to change it himself. However, if that's how he wants to be known, we should honor his wishes.

[KamaAina]

254. This dispute has been going on in La. for a couple of years now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8221476&mesg_id=8227576

Before I read that, it never would have occurred to me to call him "Piyush". But I have no intention of allowing some repuke-worshipping newspaper publisher from a small town outside Monroe, La. to call me a racist!

That being said, this whole thing has gotten way, way out of hand. See my creative suggestion at the link...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

255. my parents name my brother who was born here neil instead of naming him satyajit

so that he could fit in better and that people could pronounce his name. they kept satyajit as his middle name.

i think if my baby brother were to run for elections and people kept using satyajit, i would know they are trying to point out that he is foreign and all that is foreign is bad.

du'ers calling jindal, piyush are hypocritical and xenophobic.

i feel sorry for their tiny little minds.


edited: E insted of I

[Cleita]

258. Chinese friends of mine, who are born here, get a western name as well as

a Chinese name. My mother, who was Latina, gave me names that work either in English or Spanish deliberately. It's just a matter of different pronunciation but they are written the same.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

259. yes, if emily ran for congress and people used her rather unpronouncable chinese name

they would be pointing out her foreign-ness too.

[Iggo]

276. I swear I'm just calling him Piyush because he prefers that I don't.

As I posted in another thread: If his name was Carl and he wanted to be called Bobby, and I found out that he hated to be called Carl, I'd call him Carl instead of Bobby. There's nothing hypocritical or xenophobic about it. Childish, yes. And I'm sorry that my childishness has hurt your feelings. Seriously. I didn't mean it that way.

[Jamastiene]

265. Thank you for this post.

I do not have a non-Western name, but I do know what it is like to be ridiculed for names. My mother gave me a ton of names and for some odd reason, the nurse misspelled my first name. By misspelling my first name, it changed the pronunciation of that name from what it was supposed to be to something else entirely.

I don't go by that first name, but as in lots of times in our lives, our given names are used in a formal setting and we have to answer by our first name. My tenth grade English teacher not only refused to call me by the name I go by, but even after I explained to her that the nurse misspelled my first name, she insisted on calling me by the name as spelled as opposed to how my mother intended.

That simple misspelling of my first name along with the fact that my mother gave me so many names has given me more trouble in life than most people would imagine. It might seem minor for someone who hasn't lived with it for 38 years of their life, but the ridicule is a nightmare. No one has ever truly attempted to learn my real full name. People pretend to try, then break off into adding all kinds of names that are not there and laugh and poke fun. Even adults do it. It wasn't funny the first time someone did it when I was a kid and it is REALLY NOT FUNNY when other adults do it now. It is tiresome and annoying.

As far as my first name being misspelled, I sometimes imagine how much more time I could have saved if I didn't ALWAYS have to write that extra "n" every time I have had to write my first name. For those who don't believe that time would add up, think about when you sign a check when paying bills every month for years and years in your adult life. Do you think that adds up? It does.

Also, when you know what your first name is, but you have to not only answer to what your first name should be but also to another pronunciation that sounds different, it is very confusing. As a child, I had to learn 2 first names to answer to, plus all the other names my mother gave me.

My names have been a source of ridicule, bad attempts at humor, taunting, teasing, and outright disrespect for my entire life now. I hate it when someone asks me for my full name, because so far, absolutely everyone has had some smart ass remark to make about so many names. Add to that the fact that I have to spell my first name wrong because of a FReeper nurse and it just avalanches into a feeling of dread.

Why does a bank teller have to make such a big deal out of a customer's name? It's not like I can go to another bank and not be ridiculed there too. So, I have to take it from whoever is dishing it and pretend that I don't think they are rude and condescending.

Sometimes, I feel like the kids in sandboxes and kids in grade school are more mature than most of the adults. It's ridiculous.

[nichomachus]

268. I have two names

My official given name and a nickname that I've had since childhood.

I prefer my nickname and will introduce myself that way.

Some people call me by my given name -- it doesn't bother me at all.

I think a lot of people are getting their panties in an unnecessary knot over this -- seeing racism where it doesn't exist and pretending to know the motives of other people. In fact, most people who are all hot under the collar over this don't even know what racism really is.

Making fun of people's names has been part and parcel of politics since the beginning of the Republic -- so please take a deep breath and get over it.

There are more important things going on.

We now have about 500 threads -- and counting -- thanks to the PC Police.

[Wizard777]

269. I go by Amathion (the sun is risen,) Barack dropped Barry.

After that speech if he runs a "Bobby" instead of Piyush. He's going to appear to be ashamed of his party and heritage. That's NOT what America is supposed to be about. We don't have to sacrifice ethic pride or identity for national pride or identity.

[Dorian Gray]

270. I lived in Hong Kong for many years

and have many friends who took English names because we could not pronounce their names in Chinese. I find that my friends don't mind my using their real names at all, but I do it out of friendship and I know them. If someone were doing it to prove a point that they were "other," they'd be pissed.

I think it's pretty sad people would be using someone's given name in such a way.

[EFerrari]

274. DU made me think about "spirit names" in Native American culture

in a way I'd never considered before. All my aunts and uncles and us older cousins have Hispanic first names. But, the names we use were Anglicized, sometimes by others and sometimes by ourselves. Our Hispanic names are still used in the family. They are special and they have come to represent not only our culture but also our family being together. Things we love about our family.

So, when someone takes one of those names and uses it to show disrespect for one of us, they are also insulting the family and the culture. It's sort of especially unpleasant because our first names have taken on those meanings. But, that's how it is in my family. :)

[Dorian Gray]

282. I know that people can be cruel

and would do something like that, but I can't imagine using someone's name to diminish them as a person. It just seems so bizarrely obnoxious.

[EFerrari]

284. One of the ways enslaved people were enslaved was by "taking away"

their name. Because it is an intimate feature of one's identity. It's not only obnoxious. It's sadistic.

[Dorian Gray]

288. I wasn't even thinking about that

but you are right. It is sadistically cruel, and it dehumanizes them to take their identities away.

[akbacchus_BC]

328. Excellent point, it is sadistic indeed. Some people would never

understand that.

[EFerrari]

334. The American shyness from having this discussion

also means, we're not very good at it. We could use some respectful practice. :)

[Hawkeye-X]

I have a Biblical name - and it is merely symbolic.

My grandmother died 7 months before I was born. Her name was Zelda. And no, it's not my name.

My mother gave me a common middle name, and she has called me that since I was born - it is David (like you).

Both names are legal.

Bobby is a nickname, and I would rather call Jindal by his legal name - Piyush.

When he changes from Piyush to Bobby legally, then I will call him Bobby.

But until then, no.

Hawkeye-X

[onenote]

294. are you consistent in calling politicians by their legal names rather than their nicknames?

Bill isn't William Jefferson Clinton's "legal" name and "jimmy" isn't James Earl Carter's given name. I'm going to go out on a limb and assume you didn't wait for them to change their names to their nicknames "legally" before using those nicknames.

[omega minimo]

275. People with foreign names change them (or have them changed) b/c Americans can't pronounce them

Which many of us recent or long ago immigrants are aware of. There was a time when immigrant names were routinely changed by intake workers at Ellis Island.

It's fair to say that many/most Americans to this day can't or won't take the time to listen the correct pronunciation of foreign names.

Most people give up. We need better education.

My Punjabi friend has a flower name that she adopted long before coming to the U.S.

FWIW

[newtothegame]

277. We're experts at political correctness until it doesn't serve our purposes. n/t

[Evoman]

280. I know two people that have done this.

One of them is my cousin, and the other is a friend of my sisters. My cousin has a very latin name and working in the states, so he wanted a name that wouldn't sound like an immigrant name. My sisters friend was asian and her name, to put it mildly, does not sound good when said in English.

I sent my cousin an email asking him your question. He basically says that, depending on the context, it's not necessarily racist. However, in any context, it's absolutely asshole behaviour. He said it would really bother him if a white person did that. I get the feeling if the wrong person called him by his latino name (in a snide manner), there would be an altercation.

As for my sisters friend, I don't have any means to contact her, but I know that she hated when people called her by her given name. She took as an insult if any one but her chinese family called her by her name. She went to my school, and I know that when some kids found out her real name, they used it to tease her. And it was really racist.

I myself think it's racist and asshole behaviour. What reason, apart from a racist need to point out how the person does not fit into our society, is there to call him by his given name if he himself chooses not to use it?

[PretzelWarrior]

281. I gladly Kickd AND REC'd. THANK YOU for stepping in

it's time we inject some sanity into our everyday speech here on DU. Yes, I have been bad and over the top in my language at times.... ;)

[dixiegrrrrl]

287. I hate my legal first name and insist people use my nickname.

The problem?
2 of my 3 brothers refuse to honor that preference. They are control freaks, and I no longer associate with them for a whole lot of reasons.
And I have an "American" name.

So I understand the need for civiity and manners in addressing another person by their preferred name.

I did not get the "Piyush" bit at all.

[rateyes]

295. I guess calling Jindal by "Piyush" is kinda like the Repukes calling Pres. Obama..

Barry instead of Barack.

[rateyes]

296. I don't think I'll use either Piyush or Bobby. I prefer to call him

Rat Bastard. :hide:

[akbacchus_BC]

298. Great OP, I am sure it will bring out some excellent debates. I know

of people with traditional western names like Robert who prefers to be called Bobby and even have 'Bobby' in brackets next to Robert on their business cards. At a face to face meeting, if the person introduces him/herself with his preferred name, then it is polite to use that name rather than his given name.

We own our names and some people change their names if they do not like them or if they want to join another religion. For instance, a non-Muslim marrying a Muslim has to adopt a Muslim name. The family of the Muslim bride or groom will call the person by his/her adopted name but the family and relatives of that person will continue to call he/she by the name they knew them by. Occasionally, family or friends may take a jibe at the person by calling them by the adopted Muslim name.

I believe that some DUers who are referring to Governor Jindal as "Piyush" are being disrespectful. I was not aware until now that Gov. Jindal prefers "Bobby". I am guilty of referring to him on DU by his given name and I apologize for that.

If some DUers feel that by referring to the Governor as "Piyush" in retaliation to President Obama being referred to as "Hussein" by Republicans, that is just childish behavior. Joining gutter rats is not a progressive trait.

[FreeState]

300. My given first name is Jeffrey - I go by Jeff

when anyone outside of my family calls me Jeffrey I tell them to please use the name Jeff that I do not go by Jeffrey.

I would consider it a sign of disrespect to be called Jeffrey if the person knew I did not prefer nor do I use Jeffrey (outside of legal forms).

I know its a western name and it does not have racial connotations but thats how I feel about it:)

[City of Mills]

302. ERROR: You cannot hide threads authored by Administrators of DU

Can't hide it, so I guess I'll kick it...I'm all piyushed out today!

[we can do it]

305. I Am Constantly Called Other Nicknames of My Given Name

even when I introduce myself in the manner I want to be addressed, if I called every man who did this sexist I would get nothing done but express outrage.

[dbmk]

310. Do they do it to reinforce the fact that you are a woman and therefore different?

Not saying thats the intent when people use Jindals given name, but it is a case of "Hah, thats not your real name and I know".

Be it childish or a wish for revenge of a sorts, it still compounds the behaviour and bigotry that was shown towards Obama. I cannot see it work as a psychological awakening to the Barry brigade. At worst a confirmation to them that they were justified.

[we can do it]

311. Yes Dear

I think its bs

[EFerrari]

335. Do you always call perfect strangers "dear" as a way to cut them down to size?

[we can do it]

344. are you calling yourself perfect?

[Norrin Radd]

309. I call him, "John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt."

[NashVegas]

313. I Think It's Pretty Freaking Awful

Simply calling Bobby Jindal "Piyush" looks as petty as those who wrote "Barack HUSSEIN Obama," while giving him and his promoters the the idea that Republicans are all for old-fashioned melting pot assimilation, yadda yadda.

I'm thrilled that President Obama never ran away from any single part of his name, and used all of it with pride. People can figure out the difference between one and the other on their own, I think. At least until 2012.

[noiretextatique]

315. does anyone here know if Jindal has a problem being called Piyush?

i'm not excusing the disgusting racist posts here, but does anyone know if Jindal has an issue with his given name? if not, then it seems like much ado about very little now that the offending posts are gone.
whatever his first name, Jindal is a jackass.

[Warpy]

318. I have a western given name that had an ethnic spelling

It was changed by the schools. They were like that in the 50s.

I've considered changing it back to what it was on the birth certificate but it will cost me to undo what ignorant and provincial teachers did.

[Fedja]

321. There's 2 layers to the issue.

The first and obvious one is trying to "fit in". This usually happens to public figures, and many of them get to it at a mature age. On some level I understand it, but I also feel a bit sad about the implied rejection of one's heritage. If anything, I'm angry with society as a whole, for making such a move a viable one in the first place.

The second one (and this is personal experience) is just a matter of convenience. As if my first name (as in my screen name) wasn't alien enough, my Slavic last name begins with "Hva..". I lived in the Bible Belt for 2 years, and I've seen most Americans who were forced to deal with my name despair. It was a pretty common occurrence for someone to ask if they could call me Bob or Joe.

This is what happens with many Asian people, and you will see most Chinese freelancers use a "global nickname", which they use in daily foreign business as their first name. As in the 1st case above, this saddens me. While the earlier reference saddens me because it's a consequence of intolerance, this is a consequence of ignorance. Surely, if one can't make an effort (and that's all us weird-named people really expect, an effort) to pronounce a name, then that says a lot about the his lack of respect.

Personally, I refused any nicknames and variations on my name as a matter of principle. Maybe it's a Balkan thing, but over here names are worn with pride, pride in one's family, heritage, and people. Garble my name, and I may correct you with a sincere smile. Call me Bob, and you'll be lucky to get away with being ignored.

[Lorien]

326. A friend's brother is named Shunkar, but he likes to be called "Hank"

and I'm sorry, but I just can't call him Hank because he's just not a "Hank"! He's a 5'7" slightly built guy whose parents came here from Southern India. "Hank" fits a hairy oversized white guy from Texas, but not a young man of Shunkar's description.

[uppityperson]

327. In answer to your OP, I have a "western name". How I would feel...

"if someone (particularly someone you don't know very well, and who is known to have some sort of disagreement with you) insisted on calling you by your given name, instead of the name you have chosen for yourself for your everyday life" is disrespected.

It seems to me that it is more respectful to address someone the way they prefer to be addressed. If it is "Mr. W" or "Mrs. P" or "Preferredname", it is respectful to address someone by the name they prefer.

As to the Bobby/Piyush thing, I think it is disrespectful to address him by his given name, which is why people are doing it. Rather like calling George W Bush mrbush rather than President Bush. Or Tweety Tweety. It seems that saying "I'm doing this TO be respectful" is a bit off to me.

Final thought, I didn't know he was of Indian ancestry. Now I do.

Here is a poll I did on "have you had a name change": http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5134730&mesg_id=5134730

[Kindigger]

329. What I think (or thought)

Having a father named Dilworth (go ahead and laugh), led me down the genealogy road asking, "What mother in her right mind names her kid DILWORTH?" That question led me to the American Revolution, the Mayflower, Wm Penn; all kinds of cool places.


Knowing nothing about Mr. Jindal before last night's speech, when he walked out I thought, "What mother in her right mind named him Bobby?" :shrug:

[philosophie_en_rose]

330. People should be called what they decide to be called. Anything else is disrespectful.

At a minimum, using someone's given given name is presumptuous and very much like a mom calling someone by their full names instead of the usual first name. At worst, it's insulting, belittling, and probably (in this case) racist. For instance, there is nothing wrong with Barack Obama's name, but the people that constantly use B. Hussein Obama are using it to belittle him and insinuate he's a terrorist. I wouldn't ban someone from DU just for saying B. Hussein Obama, but using it regularly is like a red flag of freeperdom.

On edit: I don't mean calling George W. Bush arbusto or some other name he made for himself. Those aren't based on his race and are meant to be insulting. I think it's different to attack Jindal by calling him Piyush. It implies the Democratic party believes there is something negative about his ethnic heritage and is willing to monopolize on it. Shouldn't we be better than that?

[skepticscott]

495. You miss the point

like so many people here. The use of his true name is meant to point out that the Republican party (or at least most of the people who matter in it), the party that Jindal has chosen to associate himself with, thinks there is something negative about his ethnic heritage. The racism of the Republicans and the hypocrisy of "Bobby" Jindal are the issue, and yes, I DO intend to capitalize (not monopolize, btw) on that.

And funny how so many people are quick to protest that calling President George W. Bush "Shrub" or "Dubya" or "Dumbya" or "Chimpy" doesn't count, because it's not racist, just insulting. Well, whoop-de-do! At the bottom, isn't refraining from using racial slurs just another aspect of courteous and respectful behavior towards others, just as not calling them insulting names that they don't wish to be called is? Why do you get to reserve one aspect of that as your god-given right, and then condemn others for a different aspect? Shouldn't you be better than that?

[mwooldri]

332. I want to weigh in on here too...

... for the DUers calling Bobby Jindal Piyush, well, are you Mr. Jindal's parents? They gave him that name, and if they want to use that when addressing him, well that's that. However. Mr. Jindal, the present governor of Louisiana, wants to be called Bobby. That is his right and we must respect that.

If however I wanted to serve him some legal papers and his name is legally Piyush <blank> Jindal then that's what's going to have to go on the paperwork.

Same goes for our President... he goes by Barack Obama. Not Barry. Certainly not Hussein (except with legal paperwork).

My wife has an aunt. She has a very easy to pronounce western first name. But everyone close to her calls her Sally.

It just comes down to respect - and even though they may have not earned your respect totally, some due courtesy must be paid each and every individual no matter what.

So if I met Mr. Jindal, right now it'd be Mr. Governor. When he's out of office and not holding any other title, it'll be Mr. Jindal. If I got more friendly then I might call him Bobby. However since I don't know the guy and he goes by Bobby Jindal in public, well that's what I'll call him if I ever have to speak about him in public.

Mark.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

333. I know many Chinese who use 'english sounding names'

like Helen, Jane, Terry and wang became Harry when he moved here. I'm not sure where Harry came from?

[spooked911]

347. yeah, me too

it's very common

[etherealtruth]

336. My Indian

former spouse uses a very Anglicized "nickname." He has never objected to anyone that uses his given name with respect and proper pronunciation; however, experience leads in the direction that those that use his given name are using it to point out that he is an "other"

He is neither uncomfortable or ashamed of his Indian heritage. Both of our boys have traditional Western European names, our daughter has a culturally traditional name for her father's heritage, my name is about as western European as one can be.

Though I am of western European heritage, the time I spent "married into " an Indian family leads me to believe the way Jindal's given name has been (whether intentional or not)used is being used a s an ethnic slur .... it is being used to point out that he is an "other"

[Heathen57]

337. I was named after my grandfather.

It is a name that comes from the Irish/Kentucky region. First let me say that I am proud to be named after someone who was so much a person that influenced me in life.

You cannot believe how many people butcher the name, call me by another name that's not close, and simply just call me by my last name.

Orville Redenbacher was a name that I was (and still am) called in trying to make a joke. I was constantly teased about that.

Now when it comes to spelling, I think my immediate family are the only ones that can get it right. Having an odd name is a real pain sometimes and I cringe when others name their children with odd names or odd spellings. If your opponent is using a nickname, it seems that even if you are arguing with that person, you should at least have the decency to call them by the name they choose. It shows that even if you disagree with them, you can stay civil and not stoop to name calling which is little more than a sandbox tactic.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

339. No, but I do something similar.

I have an Indian name, one that's very common over there, but obviously not so much in America.

As far as Indian names go, it's pretty easy to pronounce, but I find some people have difficulty saying it if they're meeting me for the first time. So instead of repeating, "My name is _____," I say, "Call me (my first initial)." Among friends, I answer to either my given name or my first initial, though they obviously know how to say my given name.

[LostinVA]

426. Haruka and I call you (among ourselves), the first part of your name with an "ie" on the end

[Starbucks Anarchist]

465. That's the nuclear-gay pronunciation.

:P

[Xithras]

340. I have a cousin named Torean, but he goes by Terry.

My aunt was into this whole back-to-your-roots thing back when he was born, and Torean is an old Gaelic name (it's related to Torrance IIRC). His nickname was Torry when he was a little kid (some of us still call him that), but he started using Terry in high school. He uses Terry in his business, he introduces himself as Terry to new people, and the priest even used Terry at his wedding. Outside of a few people in his family, nobody really uses Torean. Heck, his own mother doesn't even use it anymore.

Some people just don't like having unusual names.

[smoogatz]

341. Here's the thing

I don't give a flying fuck how Bobby Jindal feels. If Obama's actual middle name was fair game--and in my opinion it was, in a juvenile kind of way--then so is Jindal's actual first name. Piyush is a funny name. So is Barack Hussein. Big fucking deal.

[PretzelWarrior]

343. you're a jerk. big fucking deal

[smoogatz]

372. You're a self-righteous asshole.

Fuck you.

[EFerrari]

350. Okay. What about Indian American DUers? Do you care how they feel?

Or, what about other DUers with non-Anglo names? Are their "funny names" fair game, too?

Or, is how they feel a "big fucking deal" to you, too?

[Waiting For Everyman]

355. WHO here, pray tell, was called a name? Real names aren't even known here.

Butt yourself out of the issue. Everything isn't about YOU, making obscure connections about comments to yourself. You are borrowing offense, just to create one where none exists.

[EFerrari]

356. I think not but thank you for trying to deny me the very right

you claim with such vigor.

For every actual poster like you and me, there are a hundred people that don't post but that only read.

And they are Indian-American, they are Latinos, they are black, they are Asian Americans, they are Democrats who don't think that their name should be used as a weapon against them.

And again, nice try, trying to make this about me. You might as well give it up because it doesn't work. We're not the party of cheap ethnic shots.

[Waiting For Everyman]

362. Because you say it's a weapon, it's a weapon. REJECT.

You keep trying to dodge you own premise. Nice pontification for imaginary others. That's my favorite ploy.

[EFerrari]

363. Because only your imaginary friends didn't hear how Barry Hussein

was attacked? You betcha.

Again, nice trying to obfuscate the methods of bigotry. You must have a great deal invested in them to fight so hard.

[Waiting For Everyman]

368. Oh, I guess I'm replying to myself and not you. You're half of every thread about this.

Maybe at some point I got tired of reading your bullshit.

[EFerrari]

410. You're welcome.

[nsd]

358. I think the controversy on these boards demonstrates that plenty of offense exists.

EFerrari is right. The real point is that using an ethnic name -- belonging to anyone -- as an insult offends lots of people, of all ethnicities. At least, it should.

[Waiting For Everyman]

366. What insult? How was it used as an insult? Englighten me.

Everybody wants to ASSERT that, but nobody gives an example. The name game? It's a '60's song, for pete's sake. That is hardly an offense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MJLi5_dyn0

You can feel offended all you want, that doesn't mean you have any reason to. And if no one has called YOU a name, asserting an offense which doesn't exist is an offense in itself.

[smoogatz]

365. Are they wingnuts who are trying to hide obscure their ethnicities

so other wingnuts will vote for them? If so, no, I don't care about their feelings either.

[nsd]

367. Jindal was four years old when he picked the name Bobby.

He's been known by that name ever since. He didn't pick it for the votes. My guess is he picked it, like a lot of kids might, so that he wouldn't be made fun of by the other kids.

In any case, it's his choice -- not yours, not mine, not anybody else's. How Jindal deals with his heritage and his ethnicity is his own business. I don't know if trying to make him "embrace his ethnicity" is racist, but it is certainly dickish.

[smoogatz]

373. I have no problem with being a dick

where wingnuts are concerned. I respect your decision to play nice--I even accept that you're probably right. But seriously--fuck Bobby Jindal. Who gives a shit how he feels or what he wants?

On edit: how much do we respect a guy who goes by a four-year-old's nickname for himself? My kid called himself Big Guy when he was two: if he runs for office thirty years from now as Big Guy Smoogatz, would his opponents be out of bounds in pointing out that "Big Guy" is a goofy, made up name?

[HughMoran]

357. Some were emphasizing it for the same bigoted reason that Republicans emphasized "Hussein"

I totally agree with you - anybody that does it is acting juvenile (or worse). So, this behavior IS worthy of criticism IMO.

[smoogatz]

370. Right.

My ex-wife is Singaporean Chinese: like lots of Chinese who grew up in western-influenced parts of the world (S'pore is a former British colony), she has an "English" name (a nickname her parents gave her) and a Chinese name--her "real" name. I used both; so did the friends who knew her best. There was nothing wrong with or pejorative in her Chinese name--she only used the English name because it was easier for Anglos to get their heads around (and pronounce). Only a moron would have taunted her with her Chinese name--it would be like calling me or you by our first names and expecting to get a rise out of us. (Us: you're kidding, right?) The thing about Jindal, though, is that he's using his nickname to muddy the waters a bit--to make himself seem more acceptable to the racists and xenophobes in the Republican base. Well, fine, if he wants to play that game. But let's not forget that it IS a game, and there's a simple way to counter it if we felt like lowering ourselves to their level. I won't, but I understand the impulse to do so. I actually don't think Jindal has a prayer of winning the Republican nom in 2012 for this very reason--the Republican base won't accept him as one of their own.

[Geek_Girl]

345. We called Bush Shrub, Chimp, Chimperror ect...

and other repukes a hell of allot worse, what's the big deal?


:shrug:

[EFerrari]

351. None of those are ethnic or racial slurs.

:shrug:

[dustbunnie]

359. Who el fucko cares?

Fathers name their children terrible names all the time. Who wants to be named Cletus? Or Hortense? Or bertha. You're making a way big deal out of the fact that people constantly name children out of some ridiculous thing they have in their heads. I only wish my immigrant family had thought for one second about how I would feel, or how my sister would feel. I have my own nick, thank you very much, even though now my name is fine, but fuck, its tough to go though school with a name people make fun of. In my case, we finally had a family meeting, all three girls... and dad said "oh I wanted you to have names that the relatives could say." WTF. I spent what, 3 months back "in the old country" added up, versus living here? Bwwwwaggggh... I hope every parent realizes when you give your child some dumbass name based on the old country, they will either be resilient or die.

[EFerrari]

360. Maybe you should figure out for yourself who cares.

If that's possible.

[smoogatz]

377. Neither is Jindal's given name.

"Piyush" or "Priyesh" is actually a pretty common East Indian man's name; the rough equivalent of "Mark" or "Jake." Nothing wrong with it at all; it's just not western.

[Geek_Girl]

378. Piyush is not a racial slur. It's his legal name given to him at birth

I've never heard anyone who was of Indian nationality being called Piyush as a racial slur.

Let's say Jindal's birth name was Roberta and he went by Bobby. I bet that many DUer's would call him Roberta just to be antagonistic. I don't think DUer's are trying to be racist, Juvenile maybe, but not racist.

[kwassa]

380. It may not be racist, but it sure IS juvenile and also just stupid

it would seem like grownups would just attack him on the issues.

[EFerrari]

413. This has been explained. How was Obama's middle name used?

The name is not a slur. The usage can be, in context.

[Geek_Girl]

481. Obama middle name was Hussein

Bringing to mine Sadam Hussein so the repukes liked to throw that around. It had nothing to do with race. It was some weak con they were trying to pull to link him to terrorism.

If Obama's middle name was Abdul(another arabic name) Repukes wouldn't have even cared to use it.

[EFerrari]

490. I give up You don't get it. Maybe you won't get it until it happens to you.

Which is not a bad way to learn, come to think of it.

[BirminghamExaminer]

402. Bush Shrub Chimp etc weren't racial slurs that have been used against Bushes

for hundreds of years.

[MrScorpio]

346. My first name is Scottish and my last is English and I go by both

And I'm a black guy

[kwassa]

379. and I thought you were black Irish.

actually, Scorpio sounds a little Italian.

:rofl:

[MrScorpio]

382. The Irish is on my father's side

Which I never was very close to

My mother's side raise me

And no Italians that I know of

[spooked911]

349. My two kids have Asian Indian names and they go by their real names (my wife is Indian)

I don't blame Jindal for changing his name

Piyush is far too easily mocked


Many Indian names are pretty, but Piyush is not one of them (IMO and in my wife's opinion).

[inna]

slightly OT, but.... this makes me appreciate/respect BHO's choice re. keeping his given name....

... even more.

[inna]

354. slightly OT, but.... this makes me appreciate/respect BHO's choice re. keeping his given name....

... even more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

376. People keep adding an e to the end of my name

after all they KNOW how it is spelled...

Really....

These days I just laugh, especially when it is ahem, guv'ment officials.

Yep, considered changing the spelling to the more common one when I became a citizen, that was a gimmie

Oh and why did my mom use that unusual spelling? To make my life easier in Mexico where I was born.

Ironic, yes.

[slay]

383. IMO you should refer to someone by the name they prefer

Just seems the correct thing to do. Too bad the name he prefers is not Goofus McGoofy Guy. :rofl:

[dweller]

387. my god

has it really come to this? and no, that's not my common name, tho at times it has been prefaced w/ O.

really really wierd to see an internet site discussing the relevence of an appellation ...

call me raincheck, i'm so outa here
dweller

[Helga Scow Stern]

388. Hey Dweller, hope you will continue to dwell....

internet sites are for discussing all kinds of marginal things....including appellations ( I wanted to say apparitions, not sure what appellations means) In any case, hope you will still dwell, hang in. In any time of transition, the ones who watch from the liminal spaces are essential for any kind of integrity manifesting. I have always appreciated your moniker and all that it implied. Dwell On, Brother or Sister with that name.

I changed my name to my real one, as if to say I want to recognize, support the possible safety again bestowed having a president who somehow supports what is real. I mean he'd better....! And by changing my name to my real one, I am saying I stake my life on it.

[Wetzelbill]

391. DUers mock the man's name relentlessly

And we're supposedly open-minded. I think he was right to go by a nickname, imagine how bad he'd be mocked by less sophisticated folks. It's just a good thing we're all better than that!

And my name is William, but I choose to go by Bill. Occasionally a doctor or somebody calls me "William" and it's horrendous.

[shireen]

393. it's not really about names alone

it's about the context and tone in which the names are used.

Barack HUSSEIN Obama
(1) a fundie freeper would emphasize that name, which has Muslim origins, with contempt and hostility.
(2) most of us here in DU would say it with pride, embracing Obama's diversity.
(Many of us have joked about taking "Hussein" as a middle name, to demonstrate the absurdity of (1), and to show support for fellow US citizens who are Muslim.)

PIYUSH "Bobby" Jindal.
(1) DU'ers gleefully calling Jindal by his given name, "Piyush" simply embarrassed themselves. Perhaps it came from a thinly-veiled intolerance for other cultures, or a lack of maturity and sensitivity. Gov. Jindal made a decision, some time back, to take on the name "Bobby" . It's none of our business why he chose to do it. Basic rules of civility require us to respect his decision and call him by the name he chooses.
(2) In the context of (1), the only people who have a right to call him Piyush are his parents, siblings, and wife, perhaps also good friends. It's the name they have used as a family.

[8 track mind]

394. why yes, glad you asked

My given name is spelled Raymond Luxury Yacht, but it's pronounced Throat Wobbler Mangrove.






They tell me I'm a very silly man and they refuse to interview me.


(sorry huge monty python fan, couldn't resist!)

:rofl:

[wial]

398. The Tibetans

have a precept saying you should not refer to people with nicknames based on their anatomical abnormalities -- which they probably got from India. This seems like universal wisdom to me, but it also implies there's a sensitivity (and a habitual insensitivity) in Jindal's old culture. Having said that, in some cultures it's even stranger, e.g. in one in Morocco, your actual name is very private, and in public you are given an extremely derogatory nickname. If you advance in society your nickname becomes milder but still derogatory. So we must ask ourselves whether this whole discussion is founded in anything real at all.

We should note too, Bobby is a nickname in politics that should have been retired. Jindal is even less a Bobby than he is a Barack.

Also, he is to Barack as George Bush Sr was to Jack Kennedy. A truly pathetic attempt at imitation, like a bad hollywood movie (or bollywood in this case) trying to steal the thunder of a good one (or often only marginally better) like the two Tibet movies, the two animated ant movies, the two volcano movies, the two meteor movies, etc etc.

Let's just pray he does not enjoy Bush Sr's success. What a weird stable the GOP has now: Caraboo Barbie (it's ok to call her that, right?), Mike H (sorry don't know the nickname), the Mittster, Bobby.

On a final note, what about John Kerry? If his grandfather hadn't rightly feared racism, he would have been John Kohn. And he probably would never have been elected. Sometimes unrealities can be way too real by far.

Let's just call BJ whatever he wants to be called and be done with it. Actually, BJ is pretty good.

[BirminghamExaminer]

401. Poag

My maiden name was Poag. When I got married it changed but when I got divorced, I could either keep my ex's name which was vile to me or I could go back to my maiden name. I chose to use my mother's maiden name which was nice and simple: Harper.

I like the name Poag but nobody could understand it. I got tired of spelling it. I would spell it: P - O - A - G and people would repeat back to me:

P - O - H - E

I got tired of it.

[ThomCat]

404. If not you, how about in your own family? My Grandmother

used an Americanized name. Her name was Pearl. That was considered too ethnic, too obviously Jewish, so the family decided to call her Millie. They hoped that an American name might reduce at least some of the harassment and discrimination that Jewish kids could encounter here in America.

At the time (1906) Millie was a very American name. So my grandmother was known as Millie for decades until she decided as an adult that it was okay and safe to be known as Pearl again.

Would any of you make fun of my Grandmother for having one name, Pearl, and using another, Millie? x(

[LostinVA]

427. My great-grandfather was Giovanni, but went by "Joe" and "Joseph"

His brother was "Filipi," but went by Phillip.

I guess they sucked, too.

[Baikonour]

407. I thought we had moved on from this? nt

[Chovexani]

408. No, but I have many friends who do.

It is very, very common thing in the Asian-American community (mostly in Jindal's generation but there are still younger people who do that). It's to the point where the racists who keep freaking out about it look pretty damn sheltered to me if Jindal is the first one they've met who goes by an Americanized name that is not his birth name. And to me it's just common courtesy to call someone what they wish to be called. It's like using the correct pronouns for transpeople--it costs me nothing, and it's just about basic respect.

People who insist on calling Gov. Jindal "Piyush" are racist shitbags on the same level with the RWers who loved to say the President's middle name all the time because it conjured up images among the knuckledraggers of "ragheads" and terrorists. In fact all you have to do is look at some of the justifications on these threads and they are verbatim what deranged Freepers were saying if someone questioned them on "Hussein". Ver-fucking-batim. That is no exaggeration, either.

There is so much racism on this site against South Asians and Asians in general and it is perfectly tolerated, all you need to do is click on any thread about those H visas or outsourcing to see it. And there is also a lot of racism towards Republican PoC justified by "but they're Repukes so it's okay to use slurs". I try to alert and call it out when I can but it feels like a losing battle.

There is never a "need" to be racist (except if you're a knuckledragging caveman that evolution passed by) but it's especially stupid and unnecessary in this case. Bobby Jindal holds a lot of horrible, horrible views and there are so many legitimate things to attack him on. It's like the "Mann Coulter" shit. It says way more about the person actually saying it than it does about the target.

What those who justify this BS don't understand is being truly anti-bigotry means being anti-bigotry FOR EVERYONE not just the people you like. RACISM IS WRONG NO MATTER WHOM IT'S DIRECTED TOWARD. Liss over on Shakesville made a very good point about this during the GE when she called out the fauxgressive blogosphere on sexism towards Sarah Palin (actual sexism, not the BS the RWers were talking about). It's not about being "nice" to Repukes, it's about not being a fucking douchebag. As a woman of color, I see this kind of talk and wonder if that's not how they secretly feel about me. Wait no, I don't wonder, I know.

Tolerance: ur doin' it rong.

[ContraBass Black]

409. Enthusiastically Seconded.

Mad props.

[skepticscott]

420. And have you made the same argument

for George W. Bush, when everyone and their brother on this site was calling him "Dubya", "Dumbya", "Shrub" ,"Chimpy" and a whole host of other names over the last eight years? Were you arguing that "common courtesy" demanded that he be referred to only as "George Bush", "President Bush" or "the president"?

And are you really arguing that the people on this board hate "Bobby" Jindal simply because he's of Indian background, rather than because he's a moronic ideologue? Are you saying that they wouldn't vote for him solely because of his ethnicity, when most of them voted for a black man named Barack Hussein Obama? Sorry you don't get it, but this is all about holding up the Republican's racism and turning it against them.

[muriel_volestrangler]

430. If people were actually in conversation with Republicans, especially ones who used 'Hussein',

then you'd have a point. But this is a Democratic board, and the conversation here is basically between Democrats. Unless specified, things written here are addressed to the typical DUer.

The attitude to Indians on DU can be borderline - because many people here blame them for outsourcing. No, I doubt anyone here hates him simply because of his Indian background, but I think a few here have that as an additional reason for hating him. The glee some showed here of using his Indian first name, suddenly discovered last night, certainly looked like a way of marking him out as "not one of us".

[Chovexani]

437. Thanks.

You got what I was saying. I appreciate that.

This is really just spilling over of stuff that has long simmered beneath the surface (or not so beneath).

[skepticscott]

478. It's a meme and it spreads in all different ways

I use it here, I use it in other places too, where it may see more of its intended audience, but DU is not free of lurking Freepers. And I'm sure there are some people here who resent having their jobs outsourced, and stereotypically (or factually) blame South Asians for it, but that has nothing to do with my own motivations. The only "they" I'm concerned with is the irrational ideologues at the core of the Republican party (of which Jindal happens to be one), and the cause I'm concerned with is ensuring that they never again have the kind of political power that they did for the past 8 years.

[Chovexani]

436. Someone else for my buddy list

If you really cannot tell the difference between racially-based Othering directed at someone who is a member of an historically Othered group, and calling someone a regular old bad name, you fail at Liberalism. PRO TIP: it's the difference between calling someone "Doofus" and "Gunga Dim".

I think your post alone could fill up my Stupid White Liberal bingo card. You hit pretty much every ignorant talking point. Please read the following links before you speak on this or any other race-related issue again if you have any interest in not showing your ass.

http://resistracism.wordpress.com/racism-101/

http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

[skepticscott]

477. Nice try

but flashing a bunch of unjustified declarations made by someone else is no answer to anything. Bluster doesn't impress me.

And yes, I do know the difference between calling someone a "Doofus" and "Gunga Dim" (an appellation I haven't used and never will). If you'd been paying attention, you'd have understood that I was responding to your specific statement "To me, it's just common courtesy to call someone what they wish to be called." My question, which you conveniently ducked, was whether you (despite your preaching) actually adhere to that principle in how you refer to President Bush and how you responded to other people who called him things he wouldn't have wished to be called. Which is more discourteous, insulting and disrespectful, calling President Bush “Dumbya” or “Chimpy” or calling “Bobby” Jindal Piyush? And have you attacked one and let the other pass without condemnation?

BTW, the tactic of dismissing statements that you have a strong emotional reaction against, but no answer to that’s based in logic and evidence by simply calling them “talking points” and attributing their origin to someone you don’t like is really old and tired. It’s a lame substitute for a real argument and I’m not buying.

I know it’s really hard for you, but please don’t assume that you know me. Beyond what I posted, you don’t know what I think or how I feel, or how I’d act in any given situation. You don’t know how I feel about people of Indian origin, or blacks, or homosexuals or any “Othered” group. I know you’d like to think you do, because it helps feed your righteous anger, but you just simply don’t. Live with that.

[Waiting For Everyman]

482. I agree.

It seems that logical consistency gets thrown overboard when it conflicts with current political correctness.

The result is, reverse discrimination, which is blithely dismissed - a distinctly INtolerant and UNequal, and in my view thoroughly racist attitude.

There is no special zone of deference for Jindal because he is Indian. I didn't refer to Bush in racial terms and I wouldn't be inclined to do so with Jindal either. But I'll insult both of them to the max because origin is irrelevant, but their RW corporatist policies make both highly deserving of it. White, black, or brown, it's all the same POLITICAL issue. It's not personal, it's political.

People who take personal offense upon themselves when we insult Jindal because he's a neocon (and a lame one at that), are looking for a reason to feel dissed, and frankly, I view that as attention-seeking. I see derogatory white comments posted here pretty frequently, and I do not take that as a personal slam against myself. There is nothing different about this. Some people just need to grow up.

The idea that a political figure's actual name is by definition an "ethnic slur" is utter poppycock. Something like "gunga dim" is over the line because it's specifically insulting his race, but his own name - no way. To PRETEND that far that Jindal isn't Indian is utterly absurd, and totally hypocritical. Furthermore, to say that a foreign name in and of itself is an ethnic slur is an incredible insult. If his name was NOT Piyush, and it was used, that would be different.

Obama's middle name was used to connect him with a famous terrorist who had that specific name. If his middle name was Piyush, it wouldn't have mattered a hoot. If it were only about any foreign name, then Obama's first and last names would've been just as relevant to fight over too. This argument is utterly absurd.

[DUlover2909]

411. My birthname was 10010010111000111010

I like to go by Quitzelpixt of D7X. It would piss me off if someone tried to demonize me by calling me 10010010111000111010.:P

[bird gerhl]

414. You let posters run around calling Muslims and Arabs savages and primitives

but no poking fun at ethnic-sounding names?

Whatever.

[muriel_volestrangler]

421. If you've seen posts like that, you should probably alert

If it's calling a particular act savage, it might be allowed to stay; but the rules do say:

"Do not post messages that are bigoted against (or grossly insensitive toward) any person or group of people based on their race, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity, religion, lack of religion, disability, physical characteristics, or region of residence. "

[orleans]

416. i'll post this anyway--even though you might not read this far into the thread

2 things.
if people are calling that jerk by his birth name rather than the name he uses or is known by i think they are using it to draw strong racist/ethnic lines--my assumption is that his birth name is being used as another way to insult him

(which is totally unnecessary since he is perfectly capable of drawing insult regardless of his name or nationality)

otoh--my daughter had a friend who was born in another country (as were her parents). they met and became friends when they were 4. i knew this child by her birth name. when she got older her parents changed her name in order to americanize her (she wanted the name change as well). everyone called her by her "american" name--except me. i did not continue to use her birth name because i was trying to insult her--just that that was how i knew her and who she was--it signified a connection to her since early childhood and became a term of endearment.

[nadine_mn]

417. My grandpa's brother's name is Juventine - we know him as Mike

My grandpa's family came here from Mexico in the 20's. My grandfather, changed his name from Pedro to Peter. When he married and had children, Spanish was not allowed to be spoken. This was not out of shame or trying hide their Mexican origin, but as my grandpa said - they were Americans now and assimilated. Times have changed since then, back then they were proud to be American whereas now it seems like people want to shy away from being American ie: Mexican-American, Korean-American, Italian American etc etc. My Uncle Mike is not embarassed or insulted if you call him by his given name Juventine, its just it might take him a minute to realize you are talking to him... he has always been known as Mike.

[JI7]

418. the problem is "Bobby" has nothing to do with his given names

and the story of how he got it is either fake or stupid and most likely both.

most people with hard to pronounce names go by something that sounds similar or initials or even an easier sounding ethnic name.

in Jindal's case he just comes off as phony already and the name change along with religious conversion just goes along with all the rest of it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

423. Why is that a 'problem'?

Is linguistic derivation a vital part of whether a name is allowed, by you?

[Warren Stupidity]

435. ding!

just one ding 'cause this whole discussion is stupid.

[EFerrari]

479. If that's one of your problems, you're a very lucky person. n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

422. Silly Question

And nothing you should be involved in, Skinner.
GAC

[muriel_volestrangler]

425. An analogy for people: it's like insisting on calling someone 'Miss' when you know they prefer 'Ms.'

and I think we'd assume misogyny on the part of anyone who was behaving like that.

[Hubert Flottz]

428. Not even my teachers could spell Bordzeebie Xiter Veebelfetzer

so I shortened it to Hubert Lancelot Flottz.

Not even the spell check can spell it!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

439. I am the opposite case

in that my birth names were very common--and then I became a Sufi initiate and got my spiritual names. I use my birth names in everyday life, namely because of the prejudice against Islamic names. But in my circle of friends, they use my spiritual names--and if they use my birth names, I feel disappointed--I would think something similar must be how the folks feel who want others to use a Westernized version of their birth names. However, if someone were angry at me and used any of my names to try and get my goat or to mock me--well, the bad behavior reflects on them, doesn't it?

[ColesCountyDem]

440. My grandparents were foreign-born, and it didn't bother them.

They were Italian.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

442. Isn't doing it to Bobby the same as them doing the Hussein thing when referring to Obama?

[Kittycat]

443. K&R, My stepdad is from India, and his family uses a combination of names

They use westernized and Indian names, and even then - some of them have nicknames. In westernized circles, they go by their 'American' name - when it's just family (like when visiting my grandma) - they go by their Indian name. And when I started working, I reverted back to using my mom's maiden name, because people couldn't pronounce my last name. Coupled with an odd first name - I even found it difficult getting interviews, until I changed back to the american name.

I find it highly offensive that people are trying to make an issue out of Jindal's first name, regardless of the fact that I disagree with him on many if not most things, politically.

[happygoluckytoyou]

444. I am a tailor from India. Mahatma Coat. In America, I work at a 7/11 and am called Cashier.

[Fovea]

445. Other way

Given name is western, nickname is Indian.

Long story,

Ranj.

[TechBear_Seattle]

446. Exposing hypocricy is morally wrong, after all n/t

[peacetalksforall]

447. I think finding out what a person wants to be called and listening to

anything they want to add is an act of consideration, a compliment of sorts. If we don't like what he said and where he's coming from on politics, it's totally separate.

I was particularly upset by the people who included Mumbai and Slumdog in with his name - suggesting who knows what in those writers' minds. In context, I took it offensively. I was quite upset about the bagels and cream cheese illness that was wished on him.

There is a point where the politics and the personal should be separated and it is easy to do. Just edit yourself.

Thanks for bringing this up.

[deaniac21]

448. All I can say is....

[blondeatlast]

469. What is?

Or is it just a chance to post that annoying vidtid?

[deaniac21]

476. You don't like children?

[Baikonour]

491. Aw, come on.

Wondershowzen was brilliant.

[blondeatlast]

464. Call Jindal "asshole." Is okay in political discourse and carries no baggage but the vulgarity.

Calling him by a proper name he prefers NOT to use is xenophobic and possibly worse and makes us as low as Freeperland.

And at least where I come from, "it just isn't done." And I refuse to do so.

Asshole will have to suffice.

[leftstreet]

466. IBTL

[LeftHander]

467. Blarogdertha Oglandu Melsk....

In english it means "One with left handed remarks"

[Crunchy Frog]

470. It's a tit for tat thing.

The party machine that supports Mr. Jindal is the same one that gleefully and continuously refers to our President as "Hussein". As far as I know, Mr. Jindal has not spoken out against this, despite living in a glass house himself.

I'd say it's childish, but not racist, and has to be understood in this larger context. I myself will not stoop to that level, unless he should emerge as a serious presidential contender. In that case, I will place expediency above principles, but won't do it on this site. :)

[slackmaster]

471. My real name is Prawo Jazdy, and I approve of this thread

[undeterred]

484. My father had an ethic first name and an American middle name

In all his business contacts he went by the middle name- in fact he did that with anyone outside family. And he made sure his kids all had very American first names. Apparently he had a rough time with it in grade school.

[InvisibleTouch]

485. Sort-of.

I had an uncommon/non-Western "given" name, which was not MY name. MY name, I chose for myself. It's also uncommon/non-Western, so it doesn't quite meet the criteria of your question - but yes, there have been people in the past who have intentionally tried to insult me by referring to me by the name-that-is-not-mine. How did it make me feel? Livid.

To use the wrong name intentionally is deliberate, targetted disrespect of the person's identity. And if that's your intention, have at it. I'm not necessarily saying there are people who don't deserve to be treated that way. I've never been the sort to say "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy," because, well, I'm not that forgiving. There are bad people in the world who deserve to be treated badly. (Though I honestly don't know enough about Bobby Jindal to know if he's among them.) I'm just saying, it's not harmless.

[JanMichael]

487. 1st name "Jan" which is Slavic and go by "Michael".

Chose this in 2nd grade in the 70's to stay out of daily fights. Kids are natural assholes. Then again I can still fight so maybe it was a good thing?

[Kat45]

492. I knew a guy who was called a more common name by friends and didn't like it.

I remember partying with friends and they were calling one of their friends, an Indian man, "Harry." Later on he introduced himself to me as "Surrendra" (don't know the spelling, but that's what it sounded like). We were all stoned and I started laughing because I thought he was goofing on me. Turns out that was his name. Several years later my friend told me that "Harry" had told him that he hated being called "Harry"; his name was "Surrendra."

So I guess it can work either way, depending on the person involved.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

494. Now wait a minute...

didn't you mock Sanjay Gupta as "Sanjaya" (the American idol contestant) in a thread awhile ago?

[Numba6]

498. LAST reply? What's the max # of replies, anyway? ;-)

;-)