Anyone ever hear of "Liberty Dollars"?

[EstimatedProphet]

http://www.libertydollar.org/

This looks to me like another form of barter really, with prettier receipts. The problem is, this is a commercial idea. Barter is supposed to be away around the necessity of using official, commercial exchange, so why replace it with one?

I tried looking up merchants in my area that theke liberty dollars, and found around 20. So the question is: why pay $107 to get $100 worth of barter coupons that most people won't take?

[bryant69]

1. Hey it's the second most popular currancy in America

2 comes right after 1! And please do not inquire into the distance between 2 and 1.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[EstimatedProphet]

2. That's like saying food is the most popular thing to eat

You made me laugh with that one! Thanks!

[RB TexLa]

14. I doubt it's more popular or more used than pesos

[CountAllVotes]

3. yes I have

They tend to be numismatic coins. More here: http://www.pcgs.com/prices/

[EstimatedProphet]

4. Are you talking about Liberty Head gold pieces?

Because this is something entirely different. I'd happily invest in Liberty Head $5 when I have the money aside.

[CountAllVotes]

6. there are all sorts of Liberty dollars both gold & silver

<eom>

[EstimatedProphet]

7. OK. We're talking about different things.

[ComerPerro]

5. all right! real money! Backed by a corporation, so you know it has to be good

[EstimatedProphet]

9. Check this scheme out!

When the price of silver rises near $10 per ounce, a new $20 Warehouse Receipt series will be issued. All new Certificates will be identified with "$20 Silver Base". The new $20 denomination certificate will be backed by one ounce of .999 silver, with
the $10 certificate will be backed by 1/2 oz., $5 by 1/4 oz. and the $1 by 1/20 ounce
of silver.

So, with silver now at about $14 an ounce, the $20 bill is backed with an ounce of silver.

In other words, the $20 NON-INFLATIONABLE BILL IS WORTH $14.

Yeah, I'm eager for that deal.

[ComerPerro]

10. but its like a libertarian wet dream, isn't it? LOL.

[EstimatedProphet]

11. But wait! It gets better!

Inevitably, the next question is: "What can I do with the old $10 certificates?" Since nobody will want to use $10 backed by one ounce of silver when they can use a $20 Certificate backed by one ounce of silver, there are three choices to DOUBLE your Liberty Dollars in paper form: (1) You can exchange the $10 certificate with a $10 Silver Base (and all related issues) for a new $20 certificate with a $20 Silver Base at no charge; (2) you can redeem the $10 certificate (and all related issues) for the silver; (3) you can hold the $10 certificate (and all related issues) as a store of value and exchange or surrender them at any time up to 20 years from date of issue on each Certificate.

This whole thing is clearly designed to take advantage of people that don't understand math. Surely people would much rather avoid exchanging a $10 certificate for a $14 ounce of silver (edit: oops), rather than $20!

[ComerPerro]

12. so when a $20 bill is worth what a $10 bill used to be, how is that not inflation? LOL

[man4allcats]

8. No, but I have heard of

Liberty Valance, Pilgrim. ;-)

[EstimatedProphet]

13. You'd better say that with a smile...

Sorry, I don't know any Liberty Valance quotes. Haven't seen it since I was a kid.

[gravity]

15. So can you really exchange the notes for gold and silver?

[EstimatedProphet]

17. So it would appear - if you're willing to spend $20 for $14 worth of silver

Not the best bargain in the world IMO

[KamaAina]

16. Oh what fun! There's a local Hawai'i angle to this.

Hi. My name is Bernard von NotHaus. I was so concerned about what is happening to our "money" that I designed and developed the Liberty Dollar. For 25 years, I was the Mintmaster at the Royal Hawaiian Mint and have devoted my life to the study of money, why it is valuable, and how we use it to fulfill our dreams. Like you, I am paying a lot higher gas prices, but I am also making a lot more money because I am using the Liberty Dollar. Here is what G. Edward Griffin, the noted author on the Federal Reserve said:...

While I was the Mintmaster in Hawaii I pursued a secret project. For over 23 years I worked on developing a value backed paper currency to complement the Mint's gold and silver commemorative business. Not satisfied with just copying the paper money of the Kingdom of Hawaii from the 1800's, I wanted to create a totally new inflation proof currency that met the demands of the free market in precious metals and would represent real gold and silver stored in an independent warehouse. I called my secret project the "Hawaiian Sovereign Currency".

Oh, it was beautiful with the Statue of Kamehamaha and all the flora of Hawaii. Then one night, while I was working at the Waikiki Branch Mint, an elderly gentleman stopped by. He turned out to be one of our collectors and a paper money collector to boot. So I decided to share my secret with him and use him as a focus group of one. Oh, he loved the Hawaiian currency idea. So I shared a bit more of my plan. He was enthused and asked for more details. Well, over a two-hour period, I shared the whole REAL money plan with my new-found friend.

Note: I do not believe the Kingdom of Hawai'i ever issued any currency, paper or otherwise: rather, various currencies such as British pounds and U.S. dollars circulated simultaneously. Further, the "Royal Hawaiian Mint" is or was one of those deals like the Franklin Mint or whatever that only mints commemorative coins.

[EstimatedProphet]

18. In other words, he's not being entirely factually truthy here, huh?

[baldguy]

19. It's a scam.

You pointed it out yourself: the people peddling these things make 7 cents on the dollar for their chips. What benefit does the consumer get? Nothing. What benefit does the merchant accepting them get? Nothing. And since they are made of a traded commodity, their value could crash.

Right now silver is going for about $13/oz. They're selling it for $21.40 for a $20 token - that's $52 worth of silver for $107. WHAT A DEAL! :sarcasm:

The value of our money isn't based on the physical material that it's made of - it's based upon the hard work everyone contributes to the economy. That's much more valuable and much more stable than any commodity.

[EstimatedProphet]

20. Exactly! It's so pathetic it's hilarious

The original silver certificates arose from the fact that money was traditionally in coin, made from silver and gold. Generally 1 ounce of silver equalled a dollar, because that's what a dollar was defined as. The government could put out a piece of paper saying that it was worth a dollar, because they would back it up with a dollar's worth of silver. The government was saying in effect, this piece of paper and 1 ounce of silver are the same thing, as far as we're concerned.

Now these guys come along and try to put out a $20 bill that they say up front is worth $14, and they expect people to pay for the privelige! Oh, sign me up! :rofl:

[baldguy]

21. The thing is: do the merchants accept them a face value?

Or do they accept them at market value? Or at commodity value? And what's to stop me from making copies and selling them?

If I give someone this:

there's no uncertainty of its value.