Is This 13 Year Old The Future Of The GOP?

[ihavenobias]

As many of you know, Thom Hartmann is at the today talking to crazy conservatives. I'm looking forward to gutting out the podcast soon () but I happened to hear some of the show on the radio this afternoon.

At first I thought he was talking to a woman with a terrible, shrill voice, but my GF insisted it was a little boy. Well, she was right, it was a 13 year old kid named Jonathan Krohn. He has his own website and .

Here is some , and from his (he's some wingnut).

WARNING: You may want to punch your computer due to the obnoxious nature of the kid's voice and ideas. Have ear-plugs or a stress ball handy. ;)

[Rick Myers]

1. He's a frakkin' droid!!!

Bad programming. His parents are pure evil. Clone Wars anyone???

[EOTE]

123. Are you suggesting that this kid's father made an unaltered

genetic clone of himself who would grow up to become an intergalactic bounty hunter? Frankly I'd rather deal with Bobba Fett than this ditto head in training. Django would be very disappointed.

[jmg257]

2. Ya mean Joe's 15 minutes are up???

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

13. Yup. Now we're on to Jon the Tween. nt

[ihavenobias]

14. It depends. Per KO, Joe sold 5 copies of his book last night so the real question is

can this 13 year old sell more copies of his book than Joe?

The answer might let us know the future of the party!

[zeemike]

3. I hope you post a transcript for us dial ups

I never click on things like that unless I have and hour or so and it is really important.

[ihavenobias]

5. I don't have a transcript, but if anyone finds one please post it.

BTW, it's a short segment (but I know, dial-up makes it brutal).

[Cleita]

4. Good luck everyone. My head exploded. I never heard so much ignorance and

lack of reason or logic in the three hours it took to air the show. The kid obviously has been fed a lot of selective information and plenty of RW Kool-Aid. It's too bad. He seems like a passionate and eager kid. Thom was very respectful of him, but one of the callers said that he had to be one of the alien robotic pigeons. I agree.

[tavalon]

112. GIGO in action

Our famous kiddo, Ava, is also homeschooled, but clearly she gets better information. GIGO = garbage in, garbage out.

[OhioChick]

6. Future generation to come? I hope not.

K&R

[Critters2]

7. I heard him, too.

I had nursing home worship services this afternoon, and heard him while driving between two homes. I found myself wondering if he's homeschooled. He seemed to have no objective sense of the world, no idea that rational people could disagree with him. He was clearly repeating things he'd heard from adults. Not an original thought in his whole diatribe. I can't believe he got published.

The whole thing was deeply disturbing.

[mzteris]

18. REMINDER: not all homeschoolers are fundie nutjobs.

Case in point: Du's very own AVA is homeschooled. . .

[Critters2]

29. Children should be exposed to an array of ideas and social contacts.

This kid is living proof. He's just parroting things he's heard from the adults around him. It'd be healthier if there were more adults, not to mention kids, in his life.

[mzteris]

43. there are plenty of

narrow-minded children in public schools, too. . .

[Critters2]

44. Yes, but they are exposed to people who think differently.

This kid has clearly never been around differing viewpoints.

[mzteris]

46. I beg to differ, but

you don't "know" that.

Quite possibly it's true, but then again, wouldn't it also be true if he went to a "Christian school"? Are you against those as well?

[Critters2]

47. I'm a supporter of public education.

Obviously, people have the right to make other choices, but I think exposure to a wide array of viewpoints is healthiest. Hearing this kid today sure didn't dissuade me from that position.


FWIW, I have similar concerns about kids I know who attend the local Montessori School, which is all white and all upper middle class. They need a broader worldview.

[mzteris]

48. first off

there are plenty of "public schools" that are monochromatic and almost completely attended by children of a particular socio-economic class.

2nd - not all Montessori Schools are "white upper middle class" - there are Montessori schools that are open to anyone without payment of any kind from attendees.

[Critters2]

49. Kids in public schools come from families of differing religious

traditions, ethnicities, socio-economic classes.

Look, whether you like it or not, when I heard that kid speaking this afternoon, I knew he was homeschooled. Predictably so.

And I was right.

Public schools serve the kids Montessori schools don't accept, the kids whose parents' circumstances make it impossible to homeschool. I wish progressives would be supportive of such families.

[mzteris]

53. And I wish progressives would be supportive

of homeschoolers, too. We have plenty right here on DU.

Also there are plenty of public schools that are extremely homogeneous when it comes to ethnicities and socio-economic class - and even religion in some communities.

The Montessori schools I'm talking about accept anyone who applies - basically on a first come first served basis - but they ARE open to the PUBLIC.

[Critters2]

56. I'm not supportive of homeschooling.

Homeschooling is a privilege of wealth. I'm not a fan. And never will be.

[sense]

62. wealthy home schoolers

You are misinformed and parroting myths. Most of the home schoolers I know are struggling on one income to give their children the education the public schools deny them. Teaching to the test does not educate anyone!

[Critters2]

65. I'm speaking about all the homeschoolers I know.

Every one lives in a McMansion and has enough money that they are NOT struggling. They're wealthy. The poor people I know all send their kids to public schools. Wealthy people have choices. Poor people do not.

[sense]

70. you need to get out more...

Try associating with us poor people. You might not be so biased.

[Critters2]

76. You can afford to stay home and teach your kids.

Lots of families absolutely can't.

[sense]

80. Affording it

We can "afford it" because we give up the luxuries afforded by a two income family. We chose our children over things when the public schools failed them.

[Critters2]

84. How fortunate for you. Some people don't even have luxuries to give up. nt

[sense]

87. I was referring

to luxuries like a safe neighborhood and a second car, not fancy vacations and expensive clothing or jewelry. I'm completely aware that many would not chose and/or cannot afford it. That doesn't make it anything like the picture you've portrayed.

[Critters2]

89. There really are people in this nation who do not have luxuries like

a safe neighborhood and a second car.

[mzteris]

104. that is most patently untrue!

Believe me, none of the people I personally know who homeschool are - most definitely - not wealthy!!

[Greyskye]

118. Be aware that there are free public charter Montessori schools

My wife used to teach at one.

In addition, many homeschooling programs include 'core' classes taught by non-parent teachers in a group setting. Our son is currently being home-schooled (Mom is a credentialed teacher, after all), but has a group class twice a week.

I wish progressives would realize that there is more going on in the world then they are directly exposed to.

[inchhigh]

111. Montessori

My kids attend a totally pubic Montessori school, open to anyone in the district. There are two in the area here in SE Minnesota. One of them is K-8, the other K-5.

[Greyskye]

119. We have a number of public Montessori schools in our area (California)

The one that my wife used to teach at had a waiting list the same size as the enrollment.

[Critters2]

127. The Montessori school here is private

and all white, all upper middle to upper class.

I know there are public Montessori schools, but it's pretty clear that the kids are our local Montessori are there to keep them away from the working class riff-raff at public schools.

[Odin2005]

113. What about us high-functioning autistics for whom school was torture?

If I had been homeschooled my life would have been so much better. The argument about "socialization" is a BS argument.

[sense]

130. Absolutely

Public schools try to force everyone into the same box. What happened to seeing people as individuals with different strengths, needs and challenges?

[sense]

52. home schooling? We're never home!

Home schooling is a misnomer and needs a more descriptive name. We are never home. We're in the community most of the time, learning from everyone, not one single person. Most home schoolers are not sitting around the kitchen table reading the bible with mom! My kids don't parrot. They're learning 24/7, not just the tiny amount of time you spend on a subject in school. School wastes an enormous amount of time just in crowd control. Home schoolers are not confined with only people their age in a completely bizarre environment being socialized by 30 other 5 year olds. They study the things they're interested in in depth and for as long as they want. They're learning to think for themselves and discover the facts, not just believing whatever some designated person parrots at them!

You need to think, instead of parroting old myths. Home schooling for academic reasons is huge, because our schools have become nothing more than daycare.

[mzteris]

54. We used to call it CAR-school!

because we were always going places!!

[Critters2]

57. The homeschooled kid I heard on Thom's show was parrotting. nt

[sense]

60. lumping

He's one child. Don't lump us all together! You wouldn't like that done to you!

[Critters2]

64. I said he's homeschooled, which happens to be true.

I said I guessed he was homeschooled, and, as it turned out, I was right. You ran with it from there.

You seem to feel threatened or personally insulted that I don't support homeschooling. You demean me. Insult me. Simply because I disagree with you.

Well, I disagree with you.

[sense]

78. You're insulted?

Here are your words. I'm insulted by them as any individual would be.


You are describing home schooling or home schooled children and why you knew he was home schooled. My children do not remotely resemble this, nor do most of the home schoolers I know.

"I found myself wondering if he's homeschooled. He seemed to have no objective sense of the world, no idea that rational people could disagree with him. He was clearly repeating things he'd heard from adults. Not an original thought in his whole diatribe. I can't believe he got published.

The whole thing was deeply disturbing."



What is this statement? You think home schooled kids, apparently all of them, are not exposed to a wide array of viewpoints? This is not remotely factual and completely uninformed. If you have an opinion it should be based on something beyond myth.

"I'm a supporter of public education.

Obviously, people have the right to make other choices, but I think exposure to a wide array of viewpoints is healthiest. Hearing this kid today sure didn't dissuade me from that position."



And here you are making another ridiculous assumption. This statement applies to home schooled children.

"Kids in public schools come from families of differing religious

traditions, ethnicities, socio-economic classes."


Here's another false assumption:

"Homeschooling is a privilege of wealth. I'm not a fan. And never will be."

Fact are nice. Innuendo is not.

[Critters2]

79. Your opinion doesn't become fact because it's your opinion,

either.

I heard a homeschooled kid, and I knew he was homeschooled as I was listening to him.

I was right.

Sorry that bothers you so.

[sense]

81. You are right about one child.

Yet you continue to argue that that makes you right about all other homeschooled children.

[Critters2]

83. Why do you think I knew, as I listened to him, that he was homeschooled? nt

[Critters2]

124. Actually, you're the one who got defensive when I said I knew

THIS ONE CHILD was homeschooled.


He is homeschooled, ya know.

[sense]

82. You assumed

You assumed he was home schooled because he appeared to be fundie. I'm simply saying you're discriminating against one group for the actions of another.

[Critters2]

86. I assume correctly, btw. nt

[sense]

90. being right

So it's more important that you were right about one child, which I've already given you, than to be fair and correct in the stereotypes you perpetuate about others?

[Critters2]

91. Any "stereotypes" are based on my experiences of

homeschooled kids. Including this one on Thom's show.

Again, it was no surprise to learn he was homeschooled.

[sense]

92. Oh my god!

My parents "experienced" black people as scary and violent in one situation in the south..... and went on to assume and perpetuate the myth that all black people are bad......

I think you need to look beyond your limited exposure. I'd be happy to send you sites that would explain more fully what home schooling is.

If I had gone with what my parents "knew"....... sad.

[Critters2]

93. I've had plenty of experiences of homeschooled kids.

Like the "homeschooled" kids at meetings of my food coop who run around disrupting the meetings with no attention from their mother. Not sure what they're learning, but they're being homeschooled, apparently.

Or the homeschooled child who can't read at age 10 because she doesn't want to learn to read. I keep wondering when she'll want to. If ever. And if not, then what?


And the many families of fundies I know who don't want their kids exposed to Darwin, or sex education, etc.

I know several homeschooled families.

Again, I knew that kid was being homeschooled. It was not the slightest bit surprising.

[sense]

96. I'm sorry that your experience

with home schooled children has been poor. My children would never run around like that, but I have met one family where that was true. One of my sons didn't learn to read until he was 10. I was worried as the first one taught himself to read at 3. I researched and found out that everyone learns to read at their own pace and forcing them won't hurry it up. They'll simply continue to read very poorly until they're ready and then you've spent all that time forcing something down their throats that they weren't ready for and now have a hard time enjoying because of all that stress.

I know plenty of fundies and disagree completely with their approach to education, because it handicaps their children.

I worked to force a publicly funded home schooling resource center, run by fundies, to teach evolution as required by law. They had never done it in the years they'd been open, and now they do. I currently have a civil rights complaint pending against them for allowing my child in to attend class then locking down the entire school after him, even though I was required to attend with him, and calling 911 to try to have me arrested. My transgression? I asked for board meeting minutes and a copy of the school newspaper that was filled with proselytizing. Public documents that are required to be available to all. I also complain when the parents corner my children and tell them I'm going to burn in hell and when they force religion on the kids in various classes.....

Despite my experience, I know that not all fundies would agree with what happened to me and I continue to judge them individually as I would anyone else.

[Critters2]

125. So, you're kid actually does go to a school, then?

I'm confused.

[Greyskye]

129. "your"

I could make some assumptions based on that single word that you wrote, but as that would be a silly thing to do, I'm not. :hi:

[sense]

132. School

My children and I access many different resources for their education. They are plentiful in the community and online. One of my children played on a public school tennis team and we've used classes offered in our community. Not all of the classes were for children, but since my children know how to behave and what is expected in the real world they're allowed to learn alongside adults as well as children. As I've said, "home schooling" needs a better, more inclusive name. As someone else mentioned, it's often called "car schooling" because we're never home and spend so much time in the real world. Home schooling is 24/7 for many people. Education should not be a separate thing from the rest of life, to be confined only to certain hours of the day.

[sense]

101. There are plenty of public

school children who run around with no parent paying attention.....you just happen to know that the child is homeschooled and instead of assuming the mom wasn't doing her job just because that's who she is, you assumed that's what homeschooled children are like.

Same with the 10 year old who can't read.....have you seen the statistics about public school kids and reading?

From what you said earlier:

"I had nursing home worship services this afternoon, and heard him while driving between two homes."

Does this mean the home schooled children you know are all from religious families?

If so, then you are only seeing a one segment of the home schooling population and basing your opinions and biases on a group that leans far right and is not representative of home schoolers as a whole. Extremes provide a very limited view and lead to stereotyping.

[Critters2]

122. No. I know both progressives and conservatives who homeschool.

My church is the most progressive church in town. I tend to spend my time with progressives. The ten year old who can't read is a member of a very progressive family.

I think a kid should be reading by 10. Call me crazy.

[Greyskye]

120. +1

:thumbsup:

[sense]

61. adults

There are definitely more adults in my children's lives than in the daily lives of most locked away public schoolers.

[Critters2]

67. Why are you so defensive? So you homeschool.

So do the parents of the kid on Thom's show.

Simple fact.

[sense]

71. I'm not defensive

I'm simply trying to point out your unsubstantiated bias against home schoolers that you are basing on a very small sample. I have nothing in common with that family and do not appreciate your perpetuating mythology as if you were part of the teachers union. :-)

[Critters2]

75. Not a part of the teachers union. Just an advocate

of public education.

[sense]

85. Its must have been a while

since you've spent much time in one. I support and applaud the idea of public school. Unfortunately many public schools are no longer functioning as educational institutions, they're simply involved in teaching to one test and the rest is childcare. If you only learn the answers to the test and nothing further, you are not educated.

[Critters2]

88. Then work to change them....for the kids who need them.

That's what I try to do.


Oh, and since when do progressives look down on unions?

[sense]

94. I worked

to change them for 4 horrible years while my child turned into someone I didn't even recognize because he was so frustrated by the dumbing down and complete refusal to teach him anything he didn't already know. I could not continue to allow them to abuse, bully and humiliate him in while I struggled and got nowhere trying to get him what he needed. We brought him home and it changed everything.

I look down on the teacher's unions only. That is due to the fact that they've completely taken over the schools and are defending practices and teachers that are toxic. If they were remotely concerned with the children I'd support them, but that is not their focus and they should not be allowed to make schools worthless to the population they're supposed to serve so that adults can benefit unfairly.

[Critters2]

95. As you've said. there's more than your stereotypes.

I know many teachers who are working hard and long to educate children, often in spite of the efforts of parents who can be downright abusive of teachers. Like all workers, teachers need unions to protect their rights and meet their needs.

I think we're done here. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's an anti-labor "progressive".

[sense]

97. I said the system is broken

I agree there are many wonderful teachers. I'm not stereotyping teachers, just critiquing the current school environment.

The teacher's unions are completely focused on employing teachers and assuring their benefits. If that was all they were involved with I'd support them. They should not be able to advocate what is harmful to children when the school system is supposed to be for the benefit of children.

Labeling me.... trying to put me in a box so you can shut me up. Not very progressive.

[Maat]

138. I've been reading this thread, and your assumptions about homeschoolers are just plain wrong.

Technically, my kid is going to an independent study program, even though it is called homeschooling. The program is a PUBLIC SCHOOL and a charter school. We are supervised by a teacher who has a credential. We meet regularly with her.

Various classes and tutoring are available.

My kid works an interactive program, as well as on a more conventional curriculum.

The materials are state-approved, and she tests more regularly than a kid in a conventional classroom.

She is involved in a San Diego Wild Animal Park Group, a debate group, a music group and an art group. She receives one-on-one tutoring three times per week.

She is blossoming in this program. Her skills have improved dramatically in the two years we have participated. She interacts with kids with a wide variety of backgrounds and ages.

When she was in the conventional classroom, she didn't do well at all. Different kids learn different ways.

Homeschoolers come from a variety of cultures, financial statuses, and locations, by the way.

Many parents report that they have been able to get their kids off of unnecessary medications when they homeschool. Their children learn well without medication, because they are able to vary the teaching techniques, and individualize the program to meet the child's specific needs. If a child needs a quiet environment, and one-on-one instruction, subject by subject, that can be easily achieved.

Many children can build their social skills in a very relaxed environment.

[sense]

142. normal

This sounds much more like the home schoolers I know.

There are so many kids in public school "diagnosed" by teachers and doctors as having add or adhd and when they're pulled out of the loud, boring, sitting around on your hands all day schools they don't need the meds. We need to stop thinking of them as a group and see them as the individuals they are. School really only works for a small amount of kids....the rest have no choice and they just try to get through it.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

42. What ever has happened with AVA? Did she figure out where she was going to college?

Haven't been on the board where I've seen her lately.

[mzteris]

45. she's polishing up a new documentary -

i don't think she's posted about which college she's attending yet.

[yellowdogintexas]

50. she is having a nervous breakdown waiting for the college letters to come back

she posted about it the other day.

[tangent90]

136. The where of schooling is far less important than the how of it.

:-)

[sense]

143. true

Perhaps the public schools need to take a look at the successful methods employed by people who didn't go to teacher's college.... oops! I forgot, then they'd have to fight their own unions.

[Hissyspit]

116. 13 year olds are only just beginning to develop an objective sense of the world,

dependent on individual variation, of course. This kid will hit the real world and grow up, or he will go deeper and deeper into a simplistic conditioned sense of the world. Depending on himself as an individual.

[ihavenobias]

117. Right.

The problem is if he jumps from home-schooling to say, Liberty University (i.e. another insulated environment).

[muntrv]

8. If there ever was a reason to fight a war, it would be to draft Jonathan

and his fellow CPACers into combat. I'll betcha they'd be cryin' for their mommies.

[devilgrrl]

9. from the article: "The home-schooled student...."

Hmmmmmm.

[Critters2]

10. I knew it!! That's exactly what I thought...."this is a product of homeschooling".

Yep. I called it.

[sense]

55. product

He's a product of a right-wing fundie upbringing and indoctrination. He also is home schooled. He is only one child. Quit lumping all home schoolers together! You sound ignorant and bigoted. Are you an individual or shall I base my complete opinion about you on someone else I know who has the same hair or eye color as you?

[Critters2]

58. Why do you need to be insulting? Why the ad hominems?

People can disagree. I disagree with you. I think public schools are healthier than homeschooling. I was reminded this afternoon why I think that.

[sense]

63. insulting?

Spouting opinion based on no research into a subject or on the unfortunate upbringing of one fundie child is insulting.

[Critters2]

68. You're awfully defensive for someone who's sure you've made the

right choice.

What do you care what I think?

That kid was homeschooled. That's what I said. It's true.

[sense]

72. misreading

Again, you are misreading what I'm saying. I'm not defensive about my choice. I simply think you're perpetuating crap you've heard somewhere that does not apply to most of the people you're slamming. The child is clearly being abused. No matter if he was in school or not, his parents would be instilling in him the same message.

[Critters2]

74. I had school teachers who thought differently than my parents.

This kid might, too. If he went to school.

[sense]

100. That child

would clearly benefit from exposure to others. We agree!

I was never questioning that... only your assumptions about home schooling. There are as many ways to home school as there are children. Just like public school teachers, some do a good job and others don't.

[sunnystarr]

115. Reading all this banter back and forth makes me pause

sense - you are doing the same thing that you are railing against so vehemently. You are arguing that home schooling is a good thing because it's good for you and your son. When your son has problems in his job because his boss doesn't recognize his capability or because he isn't being treated as he feels he should be, will you home job him as well? The fact is your son needs to learn how to get along in the world, whether it be a school world or just surviving in the world as an adult.

You didn't believe the school taught to his potential - they "taught to the test" - the common catch all refrain to avoid personal responsibility. Did the teachers stop him from learning on his own? Did they stop him from reading or researching? Did they stop him from taking advantage of the many historical documentaries available on your TV, the public library, the internet? No one in this country can stop a child from learning.

Personally I believe that home schooling is criminal and an abuse of children. When the going gets tough you're teaching the child to opt out. It also encourages educators to drive children that are difficult out of the educational system and it's sad that so many parents succumb to it. Whatever the problems may be, there is a solution - even if that solution may mean moving the child to another school district.

For every home schooler who is actually taught by dedicated parents or home schooling organization, there are two or more who are not receiving an education. My granddaughter's last year of public school was in 7th grade. That year she wanted to live her mother and her dad agreed to a year. She was absent for a third of the school year. Then her mother, with her 8th grade education, was able to be approved for home schooling my granddaughter for 8th grade in New York State WITHOUT the consent or knowledge of the parent who had legal custody. There was no oversight. For 9th grade she didn't even bother with the pretense. She moved and never enrolled her in a school or applied for home schooling. Even though my son had custody he couldn't get New York State to honor it. If a child is 16 they won't enforce custody. Social Services cited the mother for educational neglect but nothing came of that and she moved to Arizona to live with an online relationship. My granddaughter, now 17, sits in front of a computer every day. The only friends she has are other home schooled girls who aren't being educated and who are also online. They chat in Yahoo, AIM, and other online sites. She now identifies herself as bisexual on an online site. She's never had a boyfriend. She doesn't leave the apartment and is totally brainwashed by her mother - which is not just our opinion but the conclusion of the guardian ad litem assigned to her in the legal battle.

Children who are living the hell of serious child abuse can no longer be helped by schools who at least could identify and report abuse. They are isolated because their parent(s) can register for homeschooling in order to avoid being identified for their criminal behavior. Yet the homeschooling lobby has a greater voice and lawmakers are loathe to publicly recognize the incredible failure of homeschooling. There is no protection or identification for the thousands of children who are being denied an education and who are being sentenced to daily abuse.

The minimal protection of education laws dealing with homeschooling are not enforced. How can a state like New York allow a mother with an 8th grade education to homeschool her 8th grade daughter? Even in TN (whose children score in the bottom 10% nationally) you must have a high school diploma to homeschool up through middle school and a college degree to homeschool a high schooler. On the other hand these are only legal words since no one really cares to ensure that these children are learning and there is no public outcry to motivate lawmakers and enforcers to do their job.

So before you lecture this forum on the superiority of homeschooling and quote studies that are selective and published by homeschooling advocates, realize that you are really only saying YOUR way is best, when in reality it isn't.

[sense]

128. Belief vs Fact

"sense - you are doing the same thing that you are railing against so vehemently. You are arguing that home schooling is a good thing because it's good for you and your son. When your son has problems in his job because his boss doesn't recognize his capability or because he isn't being treated as he feels he should be, will you home job him as well? The fact is your son needs to learn how to get along in the world, whether it be a school world or just surviving in the world as an adult."

I'm not arguing that it's good because it's good for my children, I'm arguing that it's good because that's what the research says. Try reading it instead of assuming. My son entered kindergarten reading at a 3 rd grad level and ready for algebra and was forced to sit for 6 hours, 7 days a week re-learning his abc's for 4 years! Not being treated like he feels he should be???? He graduated from a japanese immersion 5th grade at the age of 8. At the age of 18 he's got three years of college credit and speaks 6 languages. I don't think I'll have to home-job him. Why would you assume he can't get along in the world? The kids who're still locked up in school with only their age peers socializing them are the ones who're being handicapped! My son has been out in the real world for years getting along just fine with all sorts of people, not just kids his age.



"You didn't believe the school taught to his potential - they "taught to the test" - the common catch all refrain to avoid personal responsibility. Did the teachers stop him from learning on his own? Did they stop him from reading or researching? Did they stop him from taking advantage of the many historical documentaries available on your TV, the public library, the internet? No one in this country can stop a child from learning."

Why would anyone put their child in school for 6 hours everyday when they're not being taught. It's school..... that would imply that there's something to learn there.....not that he needs to teach himself after the boring day. No one can stop a child from learning? I simply provided him with the time and choices he needed to be productive, rather than leaving him to rot.



"Personally I believe that home schooling is criminal and an abuse of children. When the going gets tough you're teaching the child to opt out. It also encourages educators to drive children that are difficult out of the educational system and it's sad that so many parents succumb to it. Whatever the problems may be, there is a solution - even if that solution may mean moving the child to another school district."

You "believe"? Educate yourself. Beliefs aren't facts. The fact that you know one homeschooler who was abused by a parent is not proof of anything! Public schooled kids are abused in far greater numbers. Read the research! My child was abused, bullied and humiliated in school, and that's just by the teachers..... completely ostracized by the kids because he wanted to learn.



"So before you lecture this forum on the superiority of homeschooling and quote studies that are selective and published by homeschooling advocates, realize that you are really only saying YOUR way is best, when in reality it isn't."


I would never quote selective studies... did I point you toward any studies? No, because I want you to read unbiased, current studies so you can stop tossing all the home schoolers into the same pot! Got prejudice????? I researched long and hard before pulling my child out of school. I didn't want to home school.... what a weird concept..... I "believed" as you do that home schooling was for fundies and "hippies". I was wrong and uneducated. As to my way being the best.... All studies show that when people are allowed to learn what they're interested in, at the time they're interested in it, they retain and use that knowledge much better. Think about it..... which is better... 1 teacher with 30 children or 1 on 1? I'm not saying that home schooling is for everyone. I'm saying it's a very viable option and people who aren't informed about the facts need to quit denigrating it.

[mzteris]

139. i don't know about the failure of your granddaughter,

but some of the things you're saying doesn't add up. NY actually has pretty stringent guidelines.

And for you to call hs'ing child abuse - who the f do you think you ARE?

I'm really really sorry that your husband was unable to marry a woman with more than an 8th grade education, and to keep control of his daughter, but for you to use such a broad brush to paint all homeschoolers - well, it just shows that you have absolutely no idea at all what you're talking about.

I - and every other homeschooling or former homeschooling parent, or homeschooler (can you say AVA?) - resent your accusations.

There are as many reasons to homeschool as there are children. There are more abused children in public school than there are in hs's. The success rate of hs'ers is superior to kids in public schools.

[ColbertWatcher]

99. Looks like he just got his scholarship to Patrick Henry all sown up. n/t

[ihavenobias]

133. Isn't that Bobby JIndal?

Someone posted that elsewhere with that caption so I'm asking an honest question here.

[devilgrrl]

135. No. It's Bobby Brady Jindal.

:P

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

11. Conservatism appeals to adolescent males?

Who knew? :shrug:

[Idealism]

12. Funny hearing a 13 year old talk down to Thom about the "real world"

When I was that young, we were scared about Communists the same way... propaganda is all the same.

Islamofascism has replaced Communism as the easiest way to indoctrinate fear into the gullible, it seems.

[bluestateguy]

15. A 13 year old has nothing to say that I would take seriously

nt

[ihavenobias]

16. Except that his 31 year old companions at CPAC say the same things...

oh, never mind, I see your point.

;)

[AllentownJake]

24. At 13 I was a conservative

because my father was one and that's what he taught me and that was what I was surrounded by. My dad used to mow the lawn with a T-Shirt that said I'd fly 3000 miles to smoke a camel with a picture of a guy on a camel in the cross hairs (my dad wasn't joking either he was an Army Ranger in Vietnam and was actually wishing they would call him up for active duty) When I grew up and started thinking for myself...well lets just say I don't share my father's beliefs. Same might be for this kid.

[ColbertWatcher]

28. Let's hope you're right and this kid isn't just another Jesus Camp freak. n/t

[ihavenobias]

30. I own the movie and lend it out when I can.

In fact I just lent it to my neighbor.

[AllentownJake]

34. See what happens when he starts having life experiences outside his family

He'll either stay stupid or he'll look around and get smart.

What life experience does a 13 year old boy have that can possibly frame a political opinion or idealogy?

Most of us on here believe what we believe based on life experiences not anything we have read.

[JenniferJuniper]

35. Ach. Even Levi would mop the floor with this shrill little twerp.

[santamargarita]

17. I listened to that annoying little shit for 5 seconds...

...and turned the radio off till he was finally gone.

[chollybocker]

19. The Children of the Corn are plentiful this season.

[AllentownJake]

20. There is hope

Due to my wingnut father I grew up like that kid. It wasn't till I went away to college that my ideas changed.

For all we know he could up liberal as hell. I really don't take too much stock in kid's politics at 13. Generally speaking, a kid's politics at 13 are his parents.

[ihavenobias]

23. Yeah, but were you THAT outspoken? Did you write a book and go on talk shows?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to think he can change. Ok, he *can* change, but his level of brain-washing/indoctrination is incredibly high.

Plus he's surely had a great deal of praise and general positive reinforcement which is going to make it much more difficult for him to view things differently. And something tells me this home-schooler will end up in another insulated, like minded situation, like Liberty University.

[AllentownJake]

26. In the 1988 election

In 4th grade I got Bush/Quayle signs and got a Bush/Quayle hat and wore it to school everday. I got made fun of and didn't care...if they would have had me on talk shows and gave me a contract to write a book...I'm pretty sure I would have.

However in 1988...no one gave a fucking shit what a 11 year old boy thinks about politics which is the way it should be in 2009.

[malaise]

21. Home schooled by Rush

no doubt. :puke:

[ColbertWatcher]

98. "Home schooled by Rush" That is disturbingly brilliant! n/t

[rwheeler31]

22. I heard that kid. This is so sad, parental set up to the max.

[Stevenmarc]

25. You can make a parrot sound like a conservative pundit if you repeat it enough times

[Juche]

27. respect for the U.S. Constitution, respect for life, less government and personal responsibility

Uh huh. Its good that he is trying to get involved in civics at such a young age but that is a pretty silly list of attributes to give to conservatives.

Does any serious person believe the GOP cares about the constitution?

[AllentownJake]

32. A 13 year old boy has no life experience for a frame of reference

He hasn't had the oh shit moment yet at 17 when a condom breaks and waiting 3 weeks on whether or not knowing if he might be a dad.

He hasn't gone to college and met people from outside his home town that are different than him.

He hasn't earned a dollar, have to worry about health insurance, lay-offs, or ever file for unemployment.

He hasn't seen a friend or family matter denied health care because their insurance company is an asshole, they are under insured, or they are without insurance.

He hasn't had a friend he grew up with killed in combat.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

121. Yeah, but what are most other "grown-up" conservatives problem then?

Shouldn't they have met those issues and woken up by now?

[AllentownJake]

134. The working class conservative philosphy is based on two things

One day you could be rich and in charge and everything is other people's fault for standing in your way.

For instance we really want to pay you more but the government is taxing us to death. Most employees would no that their employer is a liar...conservatives believe that their employer has their best interest at heart (they never do) and will accept that.

[tnlefty]

31. I remember when my husband told me the story about when he

was young, and being obnoxious, my mother in law was ironing and she warned him that she would mash his mouth shut. He couldn't figure out how she could, and he continued, and as he stated it, " her hand was straight up and at the last second, she turned her hand sideways, cleared my nose, and she shut my mouth."

As I responded to you earlier, this kid's lack of basic manners and respect would have horrified me had it been one of my boys.

[Juche]

33. The conservative movement IS the group of doom, gloom and fear

It has been fucking verified. Why would that kid get offended by that?

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

Four researchers who culled through 50 years of research literature about the psychology of conservatism report that at the core of political conservatism is the resistance to change and a tolerance for inequality, and that some of the common psychological factors linked to political conservatism include:

Fear and aggression

Dogmatism and intolerance of ambiguity

Uncertainty avoidance

Need for cognitive closure

Terror management

[hwmnbn]

37. Nice, thanks for the link...

I've bookmarked it for later use... hehehehe :evilgrin:

[Generic Brad]

36. So that's what Krohn's disease sounds like

When Hartmann told him there was such a thing as radical Christian terrorists I thought the poor kid was going to lose it. Lucky for him, Thom didn't push the envelope and inform him there was no Santa Claus.

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Let me guess--- His 'fresh new ideas' run something like this:

Cut taxes, increase spending for defense. Outlaw abortion. School vouchers. Get "God" back in schools, teach creationism and abstinence. Free businesses from those pesky regulations.

Just what the GOP needs. Some "new" ideas, right? :eyes:

[JenniferJuniper]

40. All of the above plus - Duck and cover! Be very, very afraid...

the Russians....I mean the Muslims...are coming!

[Clintonista2]

39. There used to be this 14 year old on youtube named "youngconservative"

He was a walking, talking robot, who simply repeated all the RW bullshit over and over. For those of you not familiar with him, here are some actual quotes:

"I'm not lying. Liberal swine, go burn a flag. I AM NOT LYING."
"Good job campaigning for Al Queda"
"Did you by chance go to a LIBERAL law school?"
"Why are you such an ass whole? Question your own faith not the faith of others. Go burn in hell, atheist. "
"You know what? We NEED oil! Why not go to war just for oil? And hey why not invade Iraq for oil?"
"What is wrong with you? Have you no pride nor love for your country? Ney this is not your country. This great nation: America belongs to Americans not you cowardly, liberal swine! My party freed the slaves, my party won the cold war, WE not you made this nation great. Go hug a tree."


And my personal favorite:

" Hawaiian, Kenyan, and Muslim. I don't even count them as American do you?"

He eventually took down his account after having all of his videos rated down into oblivion :rofl::rofl:

[tularetom]

41. I heard that little pissant this morning

I wanted to go to the convention find him and rip his fucking face off. I thought it was Coultergeist talking to Hartmann at first.

I predict high school will be one continuous wedgie for this little punk. Of course he's probably one a them home schooled religious wackos.

[Aviation Pro]

51. So this is where we get the KKKarl RRRRove's of the world....

...this is child abuse, plain and simple.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

59. He is definitely part of the future of ignorant assholery

along with Mooselini and (well at least until Tuesday) Jindal. I heard this live on Thursday afternoon and cannot believe how patient Thom Hartmann (who is the very best of progressive radio) is. I would have smacked the little SOB right across the chops after about 90 seconds. What a terrifying amount of ignorance and bone-deep stupidity this kid packed into such a short amount of time. :scared:

[Douglas Carpenter]

66. maybe its just a stage he is going through?

More than likely he is repeating nonsense he picked up from his parents and a very limiting right-wing background.

If a kid is raised by deeply committed Marxist-Leninist parents who try very hard to instill those beliefs and values in their child, at thirteen they will probably be a walking - talking little Marxist-Leninist - if they take an interest in politics at all.

There really is no telling where this misguided child will be at when he is thirty-one and has had some chance to learn to think for himself.

[Seldona]

69. Kid better get used to being the minority.

History trends liberal, and as soon as this current crop of neocons dies off neoconservative policies will be an obscure study of a particularly bloody time in US history, nothing more.

I bet this kid's bs never makes it past college. Right now he is doing nothing but parroting his parents.

[XemaSab]

73. .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieUTKsg2iDI&eurl=http://www.toplessrobot.com/2009/02/inside_the_exceedingly_bitter_mind_of_r2-d2.php#comments&feature=player_embedded

[Onceuponalife]

77. I thought it was Darth Vader

with all that heavy breathing.

"Carternomics?"


:puke:

[LiberalPersona]

102. Somehow

I don't think a 13 year old kid has enough authority and experience with politics to be writing a books about it.

Also, he has one of the creepiest grins I've ever seen.

[20score]

103. To the greatest.

[Rhiannon12866]

105. Got my vote... Yikes!

:scared:

[Monk06]

106. Like all young RWers he switched to politics after his fist got a yeast infection n/t

[burythehatchet]

107. Alan Keyes, Jr?

[formercia]

108. Train them young and prevent them fom getting a public school education.

[OneBlueSky]

109. no 13-year-old can possibly have enough life experience . . .

to say anything of interest to me . . . try again in 20 years, after he's had a chance to sample life and learn that youthful dreams and ambitions have a way of not always coming true . . . after he's had to work to support himself and a family . . . then he might be worth listening to . . . but certainly not now . . .

[progressoid]

110. Sounds about as smart as Limbaugh or Hannity.

Or vice versa. Limbaugh and Hannity are as smart as a thirteen year old.

[mitchum]

114. Limbaugh's favorite little catamite

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

126. What a whiny little weasel

He'll grow up to be a good little reich-winger with zero power.

[Realityhack]

131. Transcript?

I have no sound. What was he saying?

[Marr]

137. Why aren't Conservatives embarrassed by things like this?

If a child can write-- and have published-- a Conservative political screed, what does that say about the level of intellectual ability required to be a "Conservative thinker and author"? I would be embarrassed. But then, I'd have been embarrassed by Palin, Joe the Plumber, and a whole slew of other right wing idiots, so there you go.

[CherylK]

140. Bump!

:kick:

[DFW]

141. Wait until puberty sets in

Then, when he's trying to cover up all the 17 year old girls he's seduced and knocked
up, forced to get secret abortions and been paid to shut up (until one talks anyway),
his star will lose some of its shine.

He'll become a televangelist or talk show host on National Hate Radio.