You know what happens to kids who are shamed all the time?

[EFerrari]

They grow up to be Republicans

[leftstreet]

1. K&R

[laststeamtrain]

2. Yes.

But you're wrong.

That's too broad a brush.

Some of us grow up to be strong, intellectually resilient, honest people. Good people to know.

Everybody has a story. They all end differently.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

3. Shame is like battery acid for the self.

That you or I coped with a great deal is one thing. Pour enough on, the kid attaches to something bigger and stronger to survive -- and, voila! We have us an authoritarian.

:)

[laststeamtrain]

13. Yep.

If I was going to 'change the world' I'd change child-rearing practices. Especially the whole Euro-English-German style.

When I read Alice Miller so much became clear to me.

Then the Horkheimer/Adorno stuff on authoritarian personalities...wow.

As absurd as this may sound families are the real fascist states.

[EFerrari]

15. It's our country of origin.

:)

[JDPriestly]

52. Absolutely.

[get the red out]

7. Borad brush

I just grew up to be an emotionally sensitive Democrat.

[EFerrari]

17. They're still working out their evil plan just for people like you.

:)

[JDPriestly]

51. That's because you weren't really shamed.

You can only be shamed by others if you allow yourselves to be shamed by them. Resilient kids either rebel or otherwise have the strength to recognize that they need not feel shamed. So, others can try to shame you, but if you aren't shamed, you turn out to be a Democrat or an Independent as the case may be.

[laststeamtrain]

54. I think I get your point.

I seem to have always had a certain amount of 'born standing up & talking back' to me.

There are good days & bad days.

Here's to more good days for me & you. :fistbump:

[sufrommich]

4. Yep. nt

[Occam Bandage]

5. Cold cheese sandwiches one day, tax cuts the next.

I do agree with you, by the way.

[ogneopasno]

6. If a cold cheese sandwich twice a month shames a kid, he's got bigger problems than shame.

[EFerrari]

9. "He has bigger problems" = more shame. n/t

[ogneopasno]

10. Nah, I just meant a sense of entitlement or importance that is unwarranted. Oh wait, you're right!

That makes him a Republican!

[EFerrari]

14. See?!

lol

:hi:

[Realityhack]

12. Man you really showed that straw man who's boss n/t

[ogneopasno]

23. *flexes*

[EFerrari]

24. It's all good. We all eat lunch here or some neutral meal of our choice.

:)

[nichomachus]

36. Probably, but why add to it

I think the proper response to a kid who has "bigger problems" is to try to smooth as much out for him as you can, not pile on.

Small kindnesses like that can have a profound effect on the kids.

[EraOfResponsibility]

8. They end up like me :(

:cry:

[EFerrari]

11. No one with that kind of fragile ego could possibly be at DU.

You did good, cheese sammiches or no. :)

[rvablue]

16. Did you watch Keith last night? He had Janeane Garofalo on and she said both herself and Pigboy

were both self-loathers, they just channeled it into different world views/efforts.

I'm totally paraphrasing this, but it was the gist of it.

And having suffered more than my fair dose of shame and still being a lifelong liberal, I agree.

[EFerrari]

20. You're screwing up my premise!

lol

Self loathing is a 'nother whole kettle. My only point is, shame freezes everything in a kid that is resilient and adventurous and makes them look to other people's opinions to take on. Not like Democrats who could have an argument about how close their wheels are to the sidewalk while trying to parallel park. :)

[Cetacea]

18. Or totally withdrawn depressives. The Japanese know how potent shame is.

Better to die than be shamed. Our mental health elite do not pay enough attention to how the most painful of emotions often leads to all sorts of mental illness.

[EFerrari]

21. And the Republican solution is instead of withdrawing, project it all over the place.

[Cetacea]

34. Correct.

[grace0418]

19. Not me. I was shamed constantly but it just made me realize that I'd never want

to treat my child or anyone else that way.

[EFerrari]

22. Good for you, grace.

:)

[nichomachus]

37. Great -- but not everyone responds the same way to the same stimulus

[grace0418]

39. I agree. That was my point in posting.

[flvegan]

25. Only if the kid feels it.

I should have felt a great deal of that type of shame when I was a child, but I didn't. I think that's why a good deal of this cheese sandwich thing is lost on me.

[gollygee]

27. I think the adults at DU are much more concerned about this than any kids

There's a similar policy at my daughter's school and she says no one cares what anyone eats. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

31. It's pretty much the job of adults to be thoughtful about children

and not the other way around. :)

[gollygee]

35. I just don't think kids feel much shame about what they eat in the cafeteria

And kids who pack inexpensive unappetizing foods would be just as shamed if they did feel shame about food. Kids do feel shamed in schools, but I think it's more about having the wrong brand of shoes and that kind of thing. Or living in the trailer park. At least that's how it seems to work around here, and it's definitely wrong but changing a lunch policy won't help the overall problem. Anti-bullying programs would help more as far as this problem goes than all this outrage over sandwiches.

[EFerrari]

40. The "outrage" isn't over sandwiches but over how kids are put

in the middle of a problem that really is between adults, and the effect it has on the kids.

[EFerrari]

28. Could be. Some kids come with extra padding.

I have one of each. It wasn't that one was more sensitive than the other. One just had more padding in the ego department than the other and didn't take that kind of toxic stuff in so readily.

[NoPasaran]

26. I was going to say they grow up to be adult Catholics.

[EFerrari]

32. LOL!

[elleng]

47. Good, real adult Catholics

are among the kindest of people.

[madokie]

29. yep sure do

:puke: are raised to be that way, some on purpose, some not so much but raised to be :puke: nevertheless.

[TrogL]

30. I didn't - I saw the errors of my ways and swung hard left

[EFerrari]

33. To our swingers.

:toast:

[Bluerthanblue]

42. me too TrogL- To quote a very wise Rafiki:

"Ah yes, de past can hurt, but the way I see it, you can either run from it, or learn from it."-

:hug:

[nichomachus]

38. Well I think we should go back to dunce caps for kids with learning disabilities

that'll show those slackers . . .

:sarcasm:

[Triana]

41. and very angry to boot. n/t

[EFerrari]

43. It must be enraging at some level to feel so helpless. n/t

[KittyWampus]

44. Funny how supposed Liberal such as yourself complain about cheese sandwiches but ignore the bullying

it's just accepted, right?

If you were honest and stopped trying to display to DU how Liberal (Cool) you are, you'd realize that kids can get free hot lunches if parents apply and even IF kids automatically just got hot lunches the cool kids would STOP EATING THE DAMNED HOT LUNCHES.

And poor kids would be back to being outcasts.

THE PROBLEM IS THE BULLYING BEHAVIOR>

but you're just another "liberal" who tacitly accepts it.

[EFerrari]

45. You and I have talked about bullying before. Several times.

[elleng]

46. Unfortunately,

the Reps do the 'shaming;' its their way, dontcha know?

[EFerrari]

48. Exactly. But babies aren't born doing that.

Thank goodness! :)

[Maru Kitteh]

49. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold come to mind n/t

[Baikonour]

50. Kids will find any reason to shame/ridicule one another.

Cheese sandwich or not.

[SmileyRose]

53. Wrongo friend

At least one kid who spent a good 50+ years battling toxic shame grew up to be a Democrat.