San Francisco votes to ban plastic bags

[Nutmegger]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10431325

SAN FRANCISCO - San Francisco's city council voted today to become the first US city to ban plastic bags from large supermarkets to help promote recycling.

Under the legislation approved by the city's Board of Supervisors, large supermarkets and drugstores will not be allowed to offer plastic bags made from petroleum products starting in six months.

"Many (foreign) cities and nations have already implemented very similar legislation," said Ross Mirkarimi, the city legislator who championed the new law. "It's astounding that San Francisco would be the first US city to follow suit."

"I am hopeful that other US cities will also adopt similar legislation," he said. "Why wait for the federal government to enact legislation that gets to the core of this problem when local governments can just step up to the plate?"

[devilgrrl]

1. I always reuse my Trader Joe's bags

other bags too :-)

[davidinalameda]

4. I don't shop at Trader Joe's anymore

ever since I heard them running an ad on KSFO here in the bay area

KSFO is our local right wing talk radio station

couldn't believe they were advertising on there

[Codeine]

40. Right wingers

don't like nice groceries? TJ's is first and foremost a business.

[lvx35]

2. That's bold. But are plastic bags really such a resource consumer?

It seems like nobody wants to attack the core issues in home and transportation, as well as industry.

[China_cat]

16. You have to start with attitudes

baby steps. Then maybe the rest of it starts to sink in.

[lvx35]

19. That's a good point.

If we can create the situation where not being green is a social taboo, we will be doing well.

[Beaverhausen]

21. If people simply throw them out they live for 20,000 years in a landfill

I use canvas bags or reuse any bag I get from the stores.

[gollygee]

25. It's such an easy thing to do, though

it takes so little effort to just bring your own bags with you. It's not the biggest thing, but it is something.

[Jim Sagle]

3. Whadda buncha wackos.

[shance]

7. You tell em Jim! You tell em how cutting down on petroleum based plastic is just WACKO

:eyes:

[Quantess]

5. I hate plastic grocery bags.

They are a nuisance. One of my top pet peeves.

[Colobo]

9. I love them. I use them for my small trash cans.

[gollygee]

34. It's good that you're re-using them

I used to get WAY TOO MANY so I'd use them for trash bags but I'd still have tons more than I needed for that.

[shance]

6. You know what other plastic should go? The plastic packaging thats impossible to open

It's probably nuclear bomb proof as well.

[Nutmegger]

8. Oh god I hate that stuff.

I agree, that has to go too. :nuke:

[piesRsquare]

14. LOL!

It is SO refreshing to learn that someone else feels the same way I do!

I hate that stuff--and always feel so stupid that I can't open it without a pair of large scissors and a few hours of time!

Glad to know I'm not alone! :hi:

[shance]

38. You are SO not alone.

You are most definitely among friends.

:toast:

[Tesha]

17. That's mostly vinyl, and banning it would be a good idea.

> You know what other plastic should go? The plastic
> packaging thats impossible to open.

That's mostly vinyl, and banning it would be a good idea;
it doesn't seem to be recyclable anywhere and the highly-
recyclable PETE plastic ("soda bottle plastic") can be
substituted for it.

Tesha

[orleans]

39. (don't forget to recycle that plastic that is impossible to open) n/t

[Raine]

10. They recycle plastic bags here

in my area, all the markets have bins to put the bags into so they can be recycled. Plus I use the plastic bags at home again and again.

I don't think paper bags are a good idea, they're a waste of trees. It's best for shoppers to have their own cloth bags, that's the way it should be done.

[Rosemary2205]

22. Cloth bags are no longer practical.

In nearly every home, everyone works and those old fashioned small and frequent trips to the grocery don't work anymore in most places. It's not uncommon around here to see someone with the "big" cart stuffed full of groceries for the next 2 weeks with only a quick pickup of a few items in between. The "few item" trips might work on the take it yourself bags, but those mega trips I don't think we are going to convince people to haul 30-40 cloth bags around. We tried this in the 70's and the public just wouldn't get with the program.

And yes, they recycle the plastic at my local publix too.

[Leopolds Ghost]

24. 30-40 bags of groceries???

I regularly buy $100 worth of groceries on my bike.
Why can't other people?

Suburban homes are no further from the nearest grocery store than I am.

It is possible to take a handcart and walk to the nearest megastore.

(I live in the suburbs, not San Francisco or NY.)

Try it and get used to it, one day we will have to return to the buying patterns of the 1960s and 70s. There is no need to buy an SUV and stock it with a truckload of chinese crap.

[Rosemary2205]

30. No way could I put $100 of groceries on a bicycle.

Obviously we have different buying patterns or else food in Atlanta is quite a bit cheaper because the sheer volume of $100 of groceries at my house just would not fit on a bicycle (or in my case my wheelchair)

And SOCIETY is NOT going to return to the buying patterns of the 60's and 70's in either of our lifetimes -- and the SUV crack directed toward ME is just assinine.

[Leopolds Ghost]

37. Perhaps you think the buying patterns of the 1960s and 70s would be insane austerity

Yeah, those 1960s with their full employment, those fools never realized how important productivity and decreasing payroll is to increasing domestic consumption until we reach the New Utopia (tm) of 30-40 grocery bags of crap per $100.

As for transportation, if I can transport 4 bags of groceries on by bikes without a bob carrier, which is how it's usually done when transporting groceries, books, or a baby, then you can transport even more bags of groceries in a wheelchair that has a cart attached. No offense.

A relative of mine who is paraplegic has (or used to have) a wheelchair-accessible double-wide pickup. Then again, I'm not him. But he lives in an especially auto-oriented area. Even so, if he felt like it, it would be quite easy for him to get to the store without driving, and I'd bet he has, since very many suburbs including his have paths and sidewalks between the houses and shops, even the hideous exurbs.

I have another acquaintance who does not drive because of an eyesight defect -- he agrees with me about the asinine attitude Americans have toward the car culture (and this notion that current consumption patterns demand an ever increasing number of car trips to buy an ever increasing quantity of merchandise).

If people think that the automobile sewers running near their house are such a bad thing, and it is a safety issue forcing them to drive to all destinations, maybe they should complain to their city council that the streets are dangerous to pedestrians -- who DO exist whether you are among them or not.

But as my acquaintance pointed out, people who "insist on" walking are more often than not treated as incompetent or criminals -- cited and ticketed for their idiotic attempts to walk 1/4 mile from their house, and lectured to by locals, told to stop risking their lives, unless of course they are maids bound for the local bus station where the sidewalk invariably ends.

[Rosemary2205]

41. We are talking about ME we are talking about society at large.

I am actually a little confused about why you think any of my comments are regarding me personally. I made it pretty clear I'm talking about getting society at large to return to the 60's. I just don't see it happening in massive numbers. I just don't.

Look at it this way. Even on DU. Look at all the posts on this thread about cloth bags and then look at lack of any response at all to the threads about how biofuels are making global warming worse. Even on DU we have a difficult time getting anyone to care about anything other than their own pet project. I don't think we are going to get the SUV public to care any time soon. Quite a lot of them PREFER war to conservation.


BTW if you want to keep it just on what I PERSONALLY do - regarding how much $100 in groceries buys. My usual bill is around $100 every 2 weeks and my groceries generally fill up 3 of those folding plastic crates. We recently had to shop 3 times without my crates and each time it took about 15 plastic bags to hold it all - volume wise.

I shop every 2 weeks and I do my own shopping plus take other disabled people I know who are trying to live independently. Meaning I vanpool to the grocery store. We normally take those folding crates and put the groceries in those instead of using any of the grocery store's bags. I do this for 2 reasons. Because I feel better and because the store credits my bill for the bags they don't have to use. On my tight budget pennies matter a lot.

The closest grocery to me, BTW is 8 miles away. My arms are getting much better but I don't yet have the strength to wheel myself and a cart and 15 bags of groceries 8 miles. Now, if that means I am just not dedicated enough then so be it.

[gollygee]

26. A cloth bag can hold about 4 plastic bags worth of groceries

I don't know anyone who buys that many groceries in one trip. I've never needed more than about six cloth bags. Hmm once i might have used 8. I only have 8 so after that I'd have to use a few plastics but it's never come to that.

[Rosemary2205]

35. They must have changed those bags.

all the cloth one's I've ever seen hold about the same as a plastic bag, volume wise. Of course they'd hold more weight wise.

[gollygee]

36. The issue is more weight than volume

though mine are a bit bigger than plastic bags, they're just a small amount bigger. But they hold MUCH more.

[dropkickpa]

42. I do

I spend roughly $250 in a trip. I only go shopping once a month (only get paid once a month) except for bread, milk, deli-stuff, and produce again one time later in the month. I use plastic bags and one of those old granny grocery carts and haul all that crap (plus the kid) on the bus. Before I got the cart, I did it by hand. Let me tell you, I couldn't have done it with cloth bags, the handles are too big and they hang too low for me to be able to carry like that (I'm 5 feet tall). I buy food for myself, my kid, and the guinea pigs (dog food is gotten when I can get a ride, I ain't hauling a 55lb bag of food any further than I have to). We almost never eat out, so that $250 gets stretched a really long way, as it is every breakfast, lunch, and dinner eaten by my household.

I reuse plastic bags until they are practically shredded and then recycle them. The only ones that don't get recycled are the ones I use for dog poop.

[AshevilleGuy]

11. I wish it were nationwide!!

How many times do I see idiots leaving the supermarkets with grocery carts piled to the top with those bags?? One or two items per bag. Then driving on the interstates we see the wayside littered with them!! Bags hanging in trees, bushes, they will be there years from now!!

Every time I check out at any store, the checker and/or bagboys automaticaly reach for the fucking things, then glare at me when I insist on paper, or pasteboard boxes. Or when there is no paper and I insist that they pack my entire order into ONE plastic bag - they have no clue when I explain that plastic bags are an environmental nightmare!

Or when I buy a jug of detergent, they ask if I want that in a plastic bag!!! What for? The container has a HANDLE!!!! Duh....

I feel better now. :) BAN THEM EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!

[earth mom]

12. Great idea-I'm sick of all the waste!

There's a store that's kind of out of the way in our area that sells reusable cloth shopping bags for $1 each and I've been meaning to go over there and buy about 10 or 15 and keep em in the car. Time to get with the program! O8)

[piesRsquare]

15. I love using cloth bags...

I actually sew my own...and have sewn sets of four as gifts for friends. They get lots of compliments! :-) They're also very durable...I've been using mine for over three years now, and they're still going super-strong. Use them as regular tote bags from time to time as well.

Want a set? Fer yerself or to give? Drop me a PM...and feel free to let others know, too! :-)

[RC Quake]

32. I do the same thing.

Only I've never given them as gifts. What a great idea! I sew all of my own draperies and bed coverings and am occasionally reupholstering furniture. I always have extra tapestry fabric that I make into bags for myself. I should expand that option. Thanks for the idea!

[Celeborn Skywalker]

13. I like this idea.

I try to use non-plastic bags whenever possible and these kinds of laws would make it much easier to do so.

[Casper Alabaster]

18. I thought this had already been done. Huh.

:dunce:

[RC Quake]

33. It has...in Europe.

My first trip to the store in Germany was eye opening. I wondered why all of the people on the bus carried baskets or cloth bags with them. Now I know. Oh, sure...you can buy a cloth bag, but they are not cheap!

[TahitiNut]

43. I like the stretchy net bags they use in Germany and France.

I wish I had a franc for the number of baguettes I saw sticking out of a stretchy net bag each late afternoon and early evening on Paris' streets. Like chickenman, "they're everywhere!"

[ComerPerro]

20. Only time our plastic bags get thrown away

is when they have cat litter in them, or when they go out with the trash (as a trash bag).

I think they're extremely useful.

[gravity]

23. Stupid law

The car trip to the store waste much more petroleum products than the bags at the store. If you are that concerned about plastic bags, then your priorities are messed up.

[blonndee]

27. So since it's not the greatest source of waste, we should just keep wasting it?

That doesn't make any sense at all.

[gollygee]

29. It's possible to do more than one thing at a time

There are a large number of things people can do, and this is one of those things. And it's a really easy change to make.

If everyone makes a few changes, it will make more difference to the world than if a few people change everything.

[Leopolds Ghost]

28. Two obvious questions: (1) Why the hell don't they recycle plastic bags in SF?

They don't in New Jersey, not even in the student-run "eco friendly" health-food co-op.

In "Blue" SF and NJ, apparently they haven't even HEARD of such a thing

(the co-op people in New Jersey looked at me bringing in plastic bags like I was an insane, homeless person, I swear to god!)

But they recycle plastic bags in EVERY SUPERMARKET here in the DC area.

Why don't they in SF?

(2) Why is it that even in extremely liberal cities like SF and suburbs like where I live, "eco-friendly" co-ops and "discount-oriented" superstores like Shopper's Food Warehouse NO LONGER have a "bring your own bag/box" policy, like they used to??

My local food co-op actually ELIMINATED "bring a bag/box" and removed boxes on-site and when I asked about it, actually told me "nobody does that any more, it's stupid. Plastic bags and paper bags are recyclable, everyone drives, there's no reason not to use them." Again... Jesus H. Christ.

[Paranoid Pessimist]

31. That plastic bags don't biodegrade is the best thing about them

Paper bags, which do biodegrade, often have printing on them, the printing being "ink," a toxic brew of chemicals that leeches into groundwater and adds to the general poisoning -- a fact not widely known.

Plastic bags are eminently recyclable -- there are more uses for them than for paper. All it takes is the political-social will to create a system to do it. The supermarket we shop at has a thing for recycling plastic bags, and we return every single one we get there plus all the others.