Time Magazine -Why We Should Teach the Bible in Public School

[paparush]

OMFG!! What is happening? I cannot fucking believe this, and YES, I know what the other Time covers are about this week.

Holy fucking shit. How can a major *ahem* news magazine put something so blatantly in violation of the premise of separation of church and state.

Bush** is bad enough.
The two active wars are bad enough.
The scandals are bad enough.
The pending new war with Iran is bad enough.

I cannot stomach the Christian piety of this country.

I tell you what. If they start teaching the fucking Bible in public schools, then they better be teaching the Koran, the Talmud, Budha, the Upanishads, etc...

[theoldman]

1. I am not against a course on religion but I am against only

teaching the Bible. Just another way to squeeze out other religions.

[rodeodance]

32. yes, a course on the major Religions and their documents and how

or what are the effects on the people/country, etc would be very beneficial

[Chemical Bill]

2. I liked Black Elk's "The Sacred Pipe" myself. n/t

[sniffa]

3. you never took greek mythoLogy in schooL?

[sasha031]

6. true mythology would be a delight for students

sorry, but I find the bible depressing.

[Deep13]

15. That was presented as mythology, not reality.

I would like to see a school elective on critical analysis of the Bible.

[sniffa]

25. is there a difference between the two?

:shrug:

[Deep13]

26. Nah, I'm sure the sun really is a chariot driven by a fiery god...

...and not a giant ball of gas emitting energy through thermonuclear reactions.

[sasha031]

4. Time has become a right wing trash magazine

long time now, any Dem that buys that rag is wasting their money and validating their toxic crap.

we should all have subscriptions to the Nation and Mother Jones, (if you can)

[bryant69]

5. Too many landmines teaching the bible

I wouldn't want to do it. You'd have too many people watching you to see that you don't teach too much in one direction.

Which is a shame because, whether you like it or not, the Bible is one of the founding documents of our civilization.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Hosnon]

7. I'm beginning to support teaching each religion - doctrine and history - that

is considered "major".

As for what defines "major", perhaps any religion that has at least 1 million followers. (I'm in no way wedded to this definition.)

Religion is a large part of many peoples' lives (I, myself, am non-religious) and many conflicts have religion at their center. Understanding other religions seems to have the same benefits has education in general.

[Tesha]

54. Hey! We're in!

> As for what defines "major", perhaps any religion that has at least 1 million followers.

Hey! We're in! Thanks!



Tesha

[ComerPerro]

59. that will never happen

once someone becomes educated about multiple religions, they start to realize that they are all pretty much the same, most of them rip off beliefs from other relgions, and finally that it is all bullshit.

[Eurobabe]

8. The less church and state are separated, the more likely

the US will suffer a fate similar to Europe during their religious wars period.

[WinkyDink]

9. To understand literature and art.

[Red Zelda]

10. Time keeps us stupid

...so does the bible.

[Leopolds Ghost]

16. No, if you haven't read the bible, you are culturally ignorant at the very least.

In the 1950's, high school children were required to read "Mein Kampf" in
order to understand the roots of fascism. This was done by liberals who
understood what liberalism was all about. Look how far "liberalism" has
fallen since then. Self-described secular humanists advocate banning the
bible and generally identify progressivism with a Jacobin libertarianism
divorced from considerations of social justice, most of which have their
origins in ancient Israeli literature. It is difficult to push secular
"liberals" to support social justice when they reject and refuse to read
about the origins of social justice, whether they agree with it or not.
They support the Democrats purely because they see the rest of us as
allies in some sort of culture war with the ignorant working class of
America, divorced from social or economic considerations.

[matcom]

19. 'The origins of social justice?' According to whom?

how the hell does the bible = the origins of social justice?

[bryant69]

28. Origins might be overselling it, but it clearly has been influential

Bryant

[trotsky]

31. Why, matcom, didn't you know...

that before Jesus Christ came along, nobody cared about anybody else? Jesus was the FIRST to speak up for women, the poor, and sick, etc. Well and he gave those instructions on how much you could beat your slaves, too.

[PVnRT]

36. That's clearly what Leopolds Ghost said

:eyes:

[trotsky]

39. So explain what is meant by "the origins of social justice." n/t

[matcom]

40. good thing the MEN who wrote the bible YEARS after Jesus

were in a caring mood at the time huh?

shit. I wonder what the bible would preach if one of the MEN who wrote it were having a bad day!

[RaleighNCDUer]

53. Paul had a LOT of bad days. nt

[goddess40]

41. exactly - all religions have the same basic ideas

as do those who have no religion. They are basic common sense ideas needed for civilizations to get along.

I get nauseous when people start out a sentence with "I'm a Christian..." like that gives them some moral authority over everyone else. I'll hold my morals and ethics up to anyone else's any day.

[gollygee]

20. Who wants to ban the bible

you understand the difference between not teaching the bible in public schools and *banning* the bible, right?

[PassingFair]

23. Ban the Bible!

"Self-described secular humanists advocate banning the
bible"

What mailing list are you on?

Falwell's?

:rofl:

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. Some people here are as ignorant of secular humanism as others

are of christian mythology.

[philosophie_en_rose]

38. Philosophy and political science existed before the bible.

You are exhibiting the exact problem with teaching Christianity in public schools. Christian supremacists cannot separate their religion from their duty not to impose religion upon school children. "Only Christians can be moral" or "liberal" is insulting and ignorant.

Additionally, where are the liberal churches and how vocal are they compared to secular organizations? Most Christian denominations have never been liberal, with the exceptions of groups like the Quakers or unitarians.

[Red Zelda]

48. Yeah, I'm so deprived...

having not read that "walking on water" shit.
I'll read the bible after I've read every science book available.

[Bill McBlueState]

51. examples

Could you give some examples of how teaching the Bible might include teaching about the origins of social justice?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

11. in 1880 france banned the bible and prayer in public schools on this day.

good for them. shows how much behind we still are.

[Leopolds Ghost]

13. Banned the bible -- "good for them"?

[H2O Man]

12. It's a terrible article.

The only value in the article is that the advocates of putting their religion into the public school system are exposed as being incapable of objectivity.

[Leopolds Ghost]

17. What's wrong with comparative religion?

It's not being taught in church. You want people to be ignorant about the origins of social justice, a philosophy that is not supported by the occupational scientists and is opposed by the wealthy politicians? The origins of Western art and music, another study that the occupational scientists and their allies in industry don't want us to waste time learning? The roots of religious conflict and prejudice, the displacement of inevitable population clashes between rival groups onto matters of religion?

[H2O Man]

22. The article

is about bible studies, not comparative religion. I think that before you say that, "You want people to be ignorant...," you might want to read the article.

[Bill McBlueState]

52. examples

Could you supply some evidence for your claim that "social justice" is "a philosophy that is not supported by the occupational scientists"? It would be especially helpful if you could explain what you mean by "occupational scientists."

Same goes for your claim that occupational scientists are opposed to teaching about the origins of Western art and music.

[Tesha]

55. You know perfectly well that...

You know perfectly well that the people who are calling
for teaching the Bible in Public Schools are calling
for *ANYTHING BUT* a comparitive religion class. A
true comparitive religion class would treat all myth-
ologies on an even footing *INCLUDING* Christian
mythology.

The religiously insane would be up in arms at that!

Tesha

[formercia]

14. Time has always been one of the pipes of the Great Wurlitzer.

nothing has changed from what I can see.

[TechBear_Seattle]

18. The Bible has had a profound influence on art, music, literature, architecture, culture and politics

Without a basic understanding of the Bible and Christianity, it simply is not possible to understand European culture and history. The challenge, of course, is to present the Bible as an influence and not as religious truth. While I agree that, ideally, the Bible would be taught in public schools, I fear that most teachers would end up teaching dogma with the express intent of brainwashing students, which would cause more harm than the current cultural ignorance.

[PVnRT]

37. And you would be right

While teachers may be perfectly able to teach it the ideal way (as a force behind Western culture, good and bad), the pressure will be applied heavily to have it taught as truth.

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. It is not, however, a stand-alone.

It must be understood in the historical context of its imposition by the collapsing Roman empire on the pagan tribal peoples of Europe, how the Romans took an obscure Jewish mystery sect and used it to control the barbarians. In the 2nd century the legions favored the rival mystery cult of Mithras, and much of the original church structure, not to mention Dec 25th birthday, are derived directly from that.

Most the bible classes I've seen examine the myths, the poetry, and philosophy of the bible, but do not touch on how the bible became the keystone to secular empires.

[Dorian Gray]

60. I totally agree

Techbear.... (which might be a first!). :) Hah.

Seriously, the Bible is important for all the reasons that you list, but I also agree that I don't necessarily trust that most teachers would do with it what you and I believe should be done.

I do not think that it should be taught as a religious text in public schools. That is not the place for it. Send your kids to Sunday School if you want it to be read that way. I do think that there is a place for the psalms, or certain parables, allegories, or stories to be read, particularly if reading in conjunction with other works that might reference them.

[kevinbgoode]

21. What is the purpose for private "religious" schools anyway?

I mean, if the movement is to re-create official religious discussion in the public schools, why do we have all these "religious" private schools?

[gatorboy]

33. It's not for the religion.

It's for the atmosphere mostly. Students per class in private schools tend to be of a smaller number (In some of my classes, the students numbered 6 to 10) giving a teacher (or in my case, a nun) a beater chance on dealing with each student thoroughly.

Or at least, that's the way it was when I was in school (And that's been awhile). I think these Evangelical school have a different mission entirely (Expansion of their word, through gov't if need be).

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. "a beater chance"?

A slip of the finger, I hope?

[gatorboy]

45. Heh!!!

Those were nuns of the Canadian French variety. No knuckle knocking with those lovely ladies. :P The other school was Episcopal, so no harm there either (Though our preacher did call me a "Pussy" once which was probably even more damaging :rofl: long story...)


Edit: Now that I think about it, even though the sisters from St. Michael's weren't so bad, the nuns from St. John's school were real ball busters!

[unpossibles]

24. well, if they teach it as mythology I don't care

honestly, I wish more Christians did know what their Book said, as most (of the loudest ones anyway) seem ignorant of it.

I am fine with the idea in a comparative religions or literature class, but this is a slippery slope that I don't think we should go down.

[YOY]

27. I reserve my judgement until I read it

They had better make a DAMN good arguement for it. I anticipate they won't seeing as it's generally written on a 7th grade level.

I stick with the Economist for news rags (slanted or not.)

[Akoto]

29. I prefer J.R.R. Tolkien for my fantasy reading.

Now, if Jesus was a hobbit and Moses was a badass wizard with nothing to lose, it would be an entirely different situation. ;)

[ChairmanAgnostic]

57. heh heh. good choice.

That would be at least 2 or 3 on my list

[fasttense]

30. The corporate media, including TIME magazine, seems to be stuck in 2002.

Back in 2002 if you did not bow down to the RW version of patriotism you were considered a traitor. If you did not say you were a Christian, you were looked down on as immoral. Back then the word liberal was an insult. It is as if the corporate media has missed the last five years and was not around in 2006 when the majority of American citizens voted for liberal Democratic leaders.

Is it because they are run by huge slow moving corporations? Or is it they think if they ignore reality and continue to beat on the RW drum, American citizens will return to the mass hallucinatory days of 2002?

Though they may have been on the cutting edge in 2002, they are way behind the times today. They sound old fashion and quaint repeating the propaganda for the bushies.

They seem stuck on a path that is going in the opposite direction that Americans are traveling. Time and again they push neocon spin as if it has not been discredited by scandal and corruption. When will corporate media come join the rest of the nation?

[Tesha]

34. Actually, we should teach the Bible. And the Quran. And the fact that...

Actually, we should teach the Bible. And the Quran. And
the Bhagavad Gita. And the sayings of Confucius. And the
fact that most sacred texts are works of fiction, not fact.

Tesha

[goddess40]

42. I say teach it -but not as fact

because there is no proof. It appears to be a work of historical fiction, but since it has had such a huge influence on people it should be taught - along with all the other religious texts out there.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

46. "The bible is a book with some beatiful poetry, a blood stained history..

a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of 10,000 lies." - Mark Twain

Are they going to teach the parts about the massacres, genocide, rapes, kidnappings, and David collecting the foreskins for Saul so he could win his daughter?

You'd think the "good Christians" might get upset.

[Hamlette]

47. there is an argument that we are so religious as a country because we are ignorant of religion

I am told churches ignore the "bad parts" of the bible, the ones that are violent, contradictory. And we know nothing about the other religions. Imagine Bush not knowing there are two factions of Islam. We should know what the fundamentalist religions of the world believe and how dangerous they are.

There is also an argument religions in America kept people ignorant on purpose so as to keep people loyal to the christian religion. Ignorant of christianity as well as other religions.

I'm not sure I favor it as I don't think it can be taught without slant but if it can, I say teach it all.

[havocmom]

49. What is really telling is the TIME cover for other nations

not about the bible, but 'Talibanistan' on cover of issues for Asia, South Pacific, Europe.





Irony- not quite dead I 'spect

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=509814
Check out replies: 6, 14, & 18. Sorry, my photobucket won't take the screenshots this morning

Somebody else may be able to grab it from:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/europe/

[katsy]

50. They have no business promoting any religion in public schools.

And if they try - churches should no longer be tax exempt.

[Nye Bevan]

56. Provided that the teachers do not proselytize

I don't really have a problem with public school kids learning about what the bible is. Schools can teach about Adolf Hitler without promoting Nazism so they should be able to teach about the bible without promoting religion.

[AllieB]

58. I'd like to see world or comparative religions taught in school

Unfortunately, we can't trust those teachers with an agenda from turning it into Sunday School. Until then, we should keep it out of public schools.