"Anything Rove Sent Out In E-Mail From RNC Is NOT Privileged" & Neither is He

[kpete]

March 28, 2007

EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE....Last week we learned that Karl Rove and the White House staff have routinely used their RNC accounts to send email as a way of evading congressional oversight. "We knew E-mails could be subpoenaed," an aide told U.S. News & World Report. "We saw that with the Clintons but I don't think anybody saw that we were doing anything wrong."

So what does this mean? NYU law professor Daniel Shaviro says, "The easy and obvious point is that anything Rove sent out in an e-mail from his RNC address is not privileged." But then, drawing on an analogy with attorney-client privilege, he suggests it may mean even more:

A further interesting question is the extent to which using RNC e-mails to communicate stuff about meetings with Bush et al should be viewed as a further waiver of other executive privilege claims, at the limit on everything pertaining to the meetings and topics discussed in the RNC e-mails. On this point I would have to defer to those more knowledgeable than I am about how the attorney-client privilege is interpreted and applied.

In other words, if staffers were primarily discussing the U.S. Attorney firings on personal and RNC accounts, that implicitly means that they themselves weren't treating it as the kind of official business that would be protected by executive privilege. Alternatively, if they were using private accounts specifically to evade legitimate congressional oversight, then executive privilege claims might also fail for all their other communications as well.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_03/011021.php

[thereismore]

1. These RNC domains will be their undoing. Everything here makes sense. nt

[femrap]

15. It's like discovering that Nixon had

taped his Oval Office conversations!!!!

This is going to be sooooooooooo gooooooooooood!

Watching rove become burnt toast.....so sweet!

[kestrel91316]

2. Uh-oh.

[ShortnFiery]

3. Oh silly! The data dump is already completed. You have to act FAST for this stuff. n/t

[Richard Steele]

10. That's not an entirely correct assumption.

Even if the servers were wiped, you better believe
that more than a few people made sure to get their
own backup copies of everything on them.

These are VALUABLE things in the world of dirty politics.
Valuable as insurance/blackmail material against those
who wrote the eMails, valuable as a bargaining chip if
it ever comes time to "cut a deal" with Congress or prosecutors.
No RNC weasel worth their salt would ever just throw something
so valuable away.

-IF- the servers were wiped, rest assured that COPIES of
their contents still exist, and may eventually come to light.

[ShortnFiery]

13. Excellent Points. I stand corrected.

Let's get at this info? Charge! :-) :hi:

[Old and In the Way]

14. And which e-mails to wipe?

The guy that is tasked with wiping the servers better understand what he's signing up for...a major league obstruction of justice rap. If he were to wipe the drives and can't produce certain e-mails that are in the public domain now, he/she's really exposing his/her self to that charge.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

18. Erasing files doesn't get rid of them

The information is still on the disk, it's just that the "flags" that let you get to it have been eliminated. This is why the "restore" function works on your trash icon.

Even reformatting a disk won't completely destroy the information.

Some companies claim they can completely wipe the disks, but the best solution I've heard is to take a sledgehammer to the drive and then drop the mangled results into the ocean.

Waxman needs to get physical control of the computers.

[John Q. Citizen]

29. We have already seen stuff released from those servers, haven't we?

[Richard Steele]

31. Some stuff, yes.

I think that's how we actually found out they exist-
when Congress requested info, and the Repubs provided SOME
of what was requested, the emails were (SURPRISE!) not
from the White House eMail system, as is required by law.

The fact that they were using outside servers AT ALL is
actually a crime; we need to stop requesting specific
info piece-by-piece and sieze that whole damn system to
uncover what's in there that we don't even SUSPECT yet.

That's the stuff I'm referring to when I talk about data
being destroyed: the UNKNOWN unknowns.

[AndyA]

4. Holy backfire, Batman! They know about the RNC E-mails!!

Looks like the Caped Hypocrites are in trouble again... :eyes:

[Lugnut]

5. Aren't they just too clever

K&R for not having it both ways.

[bryant69]

6. Yeah it is a little goofy

Rove is usually so smart - or so we've been led to believe.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[TahitiNut]

8. Devious, unprincipled, and shrewd do not (imho) equate to "smart."

Some folks have the "THINK" sign on their desks ... others have the "SCHEME" sign. It's my impression that those having the latter are incapable, either mentally or emotionally, of doing the former.

[Richard Steele]

16. Exactly. I've long said that Rove's "genius" was as fake as Dubya's compassion.

NOTHING I've ever heard of him doing has struck
me as particulary brilliant. I saw much better and
more intricate schemes watching clique politics
back in High School.

Some of the crap that he's pulled approaches "clever",
but that type of thing is never original- he's getting
all his best sneaky ideas from history books.

The famous "bug in his office" incident really
sums it all up well, IMHO. It was an underhanded
slimy trick that someone else invented, copied
by Rove with laughable incompetence.

[renate]

20. his "genius" was really just "a complete lack of conscience"

Anybody can win elections if they're willing to lie, cheat, and steal to do it.

[malaise]

12. People who play smart but

are not clever usually outsmart themselves eventually.

[Ghost in the Machine]

22. Have we been duped by Moe, Larry & Curly??

Hey! CURLY..... that explains the chimp's obsession with bald heads! :evilgrin:

Ghost

[sinkingfeeling]

7. Then throw on top of that, they may have been violating the Presidential Records Act!

[Gold Metal Flake]

9. GWB43.com emails were discussed in the GSA hearing this morning!

Kestral said: "uh-oh". I would just like to add:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! eleven

[L. Coyote]

11. We posted matching threads at the same time.

Email-Gate FACTS: Felons, georgewbush.com, gwb43.com , et. al.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x523978

[DemReadingDU]

17. Here's my thread: Ohio GOP, gwb43.com, georgewbush.com

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x469875

[WiseButAngrySara]

19. HR #1255: Can someone tell me the status on this?

Can someone tell me the status of Waxman's Bill now in the Senate, and supposedly passed by the House in March?

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1193

H.R. 1255: The Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2007

On March 1, 2007, Rep. Henry A. Waxman along with Reps. Platts, Clay, and Burton introduced H.R. 1255, the Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2007, to nullify a 2001 presidential executive order and restore public access to presidential records. The Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census, and National Archives reported this bill favorably to the full committee on March 6.

Overturning the Bush Executive Order. Under the Presidential Records Act, presidential records are supposed to be released to historians and the public 12 years after the end of a presidential administration. In November 2001, President George W. Bush issued Executive Order 13233 which overturned an executive order issued by President Reagan and gave current and former presidents and vice presidents broad authority to withhold presidential records or delay their release indefinitely. The Presidential Records Act Amendments of 2007 would nullify the Bush executive order and establish procedures to ensure the timely release of presidential records.

Establishing a Deadline for Review of Records. Under the Bush executive order, the Archivist must wait for both the current and former president to approve the release of presidential records, a review process that can continue indefinitely. Under the bill, the current and former president would have a set time period of no longer than 40 business days to raise objections to the release of these records by the Archivist.

Limiting the Authority of Former Presidents to Withhold Presidential Records. Under the Reagan executive order, a former president could request that the incumbent president assert a claim of executive privilege and thereby stop the release of the records. If the incumbent president decided not to assert executive privilege, however, the records would be released unless the former president could persuade a court to uphold the former president’s assertion of the privilege. The Bush executive order reversed this process and required the incumbent president to sustain the executive privilege claim of the former president unless a person seeking access could persuade a court to reject the claim. In effect, the Bush order gave former presidents virtually unlimited authority to withhold presidential records through assertions of executive privilege. The legislation would restore the Reagan approach, giving the incumbent president the discretion to reject ill-founded assertions of executive privilege by former presidents.

Requiring the President to Make Privilege Claims Personally. Under the Bush executive order, designees of the former president could assert privilege claims after the death of the president, in effect making the right to assert executive privilege an asset of the former president’s estate. The bill would make clear that the right to claim executive privilege is personal to current and former presidents and cannot be bequeathed to assistants, relatives, or descendants.

Eliminating Executive Privilege Claims for Vice Presidents. In an unprecedented step, the Bush executive order authorized former vice presidents to assert executive privilege claims over vice presidential records. The bill restores the long-standing understanding that the right to assert executive privilege over presidential records is a right held only by presidents.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/11/2001110...

Presidential Records Act Executive Order
Further Implementation of the Presidential Records Act Executive Order

[Straight Shooter]

21. Ha ha, Rove, hoist on your own dirty little petard.

I can't wait for it to blow up and take the entire GOP power structure with it.

[WiseButAngrySara]

23. LOL! And I hope his dirty petard is infected with Staph! (the

flesh-eating kind.)

[grannylib]

26. I don't know that I would wish that on...oh never mind, yeah I would. KKKarl

Rover the Attack Dog deserves it.

My hubby survived it (Type A Streptococcal necrotizing fasciitis, to be precise) in his groin, and it was nasty, man...normally I would NOT wish that on anyone.

But if anyone deserves that kinda shit, it's Rover.

[WiseButAngrySara]

27. Oh, believe me I wouldn't either. I felt guilty posting it but

just couldn't resist. Necrotizing fasciitis is awful. I'm so sorry if I offended!

[grannylib]

28. Oh, no, not at all! No offense taken. And I totally understand your

feelings, I am just SO damn frustrated by the continued, endless, one-scandal-worse-than-the-other, greed-driven, power-mad, lying cheating thieving killing sacks of shit running this country, that I ALMOST would wish bad things!
But I can't, and that's not the kind of world I want to live in, where we degenerate to their level, but holy shit...enough already!!

[WiseButAngrySara]

30. Have you read this amazing post by peacepatriot today?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x528707

I don't know if it will make you feel better or worse, but it's the plain and honest truth about these scumbag criminals. And it makes Hitler look lame almost in comparison. The scandals not discussed in the MSM (at least some are finally being discussed though)are the biggest crimes of the BFEE, just like Watergate was actually a relatively small crime of Nixon.

[grannylib]

33. Yes, I did, that was excellent...

[Bitwit1234]

24. See how stupid

They were so arrogant so cocky, they thought no one would ever question anything they did. Bush and cheney have got to be impeached. Even tho they can't get the votes, the corruption and lying and crookedness of this administration has got to see the light of day.

What in the hell made them think that they could do anything they wanted and get away with it. The persons in the whitehouse are supposed to be president and vice president not king.

[glitch]

25. Those who win in a rigged game, get stupid - Catherine Austin Fitts

and when you start stupid you assume the game will always be rigged in your favor (or, how stupid do you have to be to blow play after play after play in a game rigged for you?) - glitch

[Eurobabe]

32. They're now fucked over Jennings and the GSA .ppt presentation too.

What ELSE have these people hidden, covered up?

Waxman & Schumer need to get to the bottom of ALL of this.

[w4rma]

34. There is no such thing as "executive privilege". It is a made up official sounding term.

It is nowhere in the Constitution.

It is a good point that the RNC emails don't even fall under the con-artists' fake "executive privilege" creativity.

[snappyturtle]

35. K&R All I can say is:

:popcorn: and lots of it!