Vista heads up

[MichaelHarris]

Last night my Windows Vista did an automatic update, today all of my activation codes for all my software were gone. I know a bit about Windows, spending a few years there myself but this was something very weird.

I've never had to call a help desk before but I did today. It was horrible. I remember having my team of tech support people and really tried to make sure they were polite and helpful. The guy I got could speak very little english and had to read me a 40 digit number, that was not fun.

Here's my point, first I want to know if anyone else experienced this without them installing and new hardware or software. They kept telling me I installed something when I didn't, my computer has been the same since I built it a number of months ago.

Second, and here's the kicker, 90 days after you install Vista a support call costs 59 dollars. I was inside that but if they have updates erasing activation numbers then later, as Vista gets older people will be paying. At one point Microsoft had an idea to a "pay as you go" operating system. A yearly fee. Well here's one way to get it without Justice Dept intervention, automatic updates that erase activation numbers.

All the people I spoke to today at Microsoft were very defensive when I asked why it happened and has it been happening to others. They continued blaming me for installing hardware or software.

[DCKit]

1. No Vista for me

I'm using Debian Linux now.

[JuniperLea]

2. Just say NO to Vista!

As soon as I heard it was reporting back to MS and who knows who all else, I didn't hesitate to say no freaking way!

[sendero]

3. It will be a very long time...

.. if ever before I install Vista on any of my computers.

[ixion]

4. I will never run vista, however, in my xp start up, I have a registry key that launches

and disables automatic updates, just in case it gets the idea to try and re-enable itself. ;-)

[Jackpine Radical]

22. My wife just bought an Intel-based Mac notebook.

I'm watching to see how her experience f conversion goes, and maybe my next machine will be a Mac too. At this point the only Windows program I think I'd really miss is Dragon Naturally Speaking, which I'm always using to dictate psych clinical notes, evaluation reports & the like. I typically put out 2-5000 words a week & think the Dragon saves me an appreciable amount of time. Is there a good-really good speech recog program in the Mac world?

[kedrys]

27. IBM's ViaVoice is pretty decent

I used it a while back with good results. Another software, with which I have no experience, is iListen.

http://speechwiki.org/out-loud/mac.html

Check it out! :hi:

[The Cleaner]

81. You can get dual-boot Macs now.

They run both Mac OS and PC, so you don't have to worry about losing your PC programs.

[Jackpine Radical]

86. I know, but I wanna get free from Vista.

My wife's machine is dual-boot, although she hasn't yet installed Swindles on it.

[Ignacio Upton]

5. A yearly fee to continue operating Vista?

Why don't they just come out and say that you are renting Vista instead of owning it? Fuck DRM and copy-protection. All of this shit is making content-creators into intellectual landlords, and us consumers as intellectual vassals.

[msongs]

8. get even with Microsoft - write your own operating system! nt

[zulchzulu]

13. ...or use Linux or OS X...

It's a safer, saner drive...no pun intended...

[Ignacio Upton]

15. Hm...I'd rather save myself labor hours and just buy Mac OS X or Linux

I'll wait until my current XP-running Dell keels over, then I'll decide whether or not to buy another PC or a Mac. I might go with a Mac simply because their bootcamp program will give me flexibility in the work world (and I won't put ANY files on the Windows side of my Mac that aren't work-related, so its spyware doesn't fuck with me.) I'm not familiar with Linux, but if I'm in a position to use it, then I will buy a PC and install Linux on it.

[kineneb]

35. don't need to buy Linux

unless you want a boxed set. All the distros are available online. Try this site for starters:

http://distrowatch.com/

I have SuSE (now OpenSuSE) and Kubuntu loaded on various computers. I have left one small Win 98SE partition on my old laptop, with none of the internet access pieces loaded. Otherwise it is an all-Linux household.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Trying to load KNOPPIX from the thumbdrive for my laptop

and the boot part is all screwy

;-)

[Kelly Rupert]

29. Which will be compatible with absolutely nothing!

And will require thousands of hours of labor!

[Clark2008]

116. That's what I thought when I read it.

I sell software training.

Very few people use anything but Microsoft.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not product selective because my company sells all types of training - but I know from experience what people are requesting training in and, by far, the answer is Microsoft software.

[Little Wing]

93. No, where did you get that idea?

[rocktivity]

6. (pre click prediction) "What's wrong?"

:evilgrin:
rocknation

[Kutjara]

7. It's probably a "bug" (trans: feature) of the...

..."Genuine Windows Advantage" spyware crap M$ insist on installing every month or so. This sniffs around your machine to see if you're running any M$ software you haven't bought. It would only take a little "mistake" to delete the file containing software reg numbers, rather than merely read it.

I'll bet if you search on some of the non-M$ sponsored help forums out there, you'll find that this problem isn't rare.

[Ignacio Upton]

9. Can the spyware detect non-DRM music and movies, and delete them?

I wouldn't be surprised if Vista turns into a repeat of Sony's DRM rootkit fiasco.

[Kutjara]

14. Not the current version.

Currently, GWA is aimed at making sure you haven't taken any food out of BillG's babies' mouths by pirating sacred M$ software. I'm sure they'll get around to sniffing everything else on your computer one of these days, but they haven't got around to it yet.

[Ignacio Upton]

16. If only the SCOTUS hadn't ruled against Gore

Then M$ would have been broken up five years ago into a company that just produces Windows, and another that produces software such as Office and Internet Explorer. One of Bush's many giveaways to big business was to rule out breaking up M$ and just giving them a slap on the wrist.

[Kutjara]

18. Amen.

It would be a much more hospitable environment for innovation in the computer industry if M$ was broken up into its component parts. It's hard for anyone to build a market for their products when one of their competitors has a brazillian dollars to throw at any idea they like the look of.

[Ignacio Upton]

19. Unfortunately, M$ isn't the only one that does this

Steve Jobs has consumers "locked in" to the ipod and itunes because of proprietary DRM. In other wards, if you download music from itunes, it won't play on, say, an iRiver or a Creative Nomad or a Zune. Jobs is also responsible for making it so that you can't (legally...without reverse-engineering) run Mac OS on a PC.

[Kutjara]

24. True enough.

M$ aren't the only offender, merely the biggest one. I don't believe for a moment that the world would be in any better hands if it was run by Jobs. Monopolies are intrinsically bad, no matter who's running them.

[jayctravis]

84. Not quite true.

iTunes has DRM, but it's remarkably lenient. I think you can burn a purchased playlist like 5 times. Each copy of that you burn works like a purchased CD. They've made it so that if you want to run the music on something other than iTunes you do have to take a step and create a CD, but it does allow it.

[Ignacio Upton]

111. I think that five times thing is for allowing people to be authorized

to play copies of the digital file itself. However, an indirect way of circumventing Apple's DRM is to burn the songs to a CD-R or CD-RW as part of a new audio CD (NOT as a data CD, where the songs stay compressed...this is more efficient in utilizing space on the CD, but the DRM stays intact if you do it this way) and then re-rip the songs as mp3's. However, this process is time-consuming, so I think that Apple pretty much looks the other way on it. I'm surprised that the RIAA hasn't lobbied for them to place limits on the number of times that you can burn the file to a CD-R or CD-RW.

[Richard Steele]

98. I'm sorry, but that's not true.

IPod and iTunes play MP3s, which are hardly a "proprietary format".
End of story.


And as far as "Jobs is also responsible for making it so that you
can't (legally...without reverse-engineering) run Mac OS on a PC",
what is that even supposed to mean? I seem to be missing whatever
point you are trying to make there.

It's equally true to say "Mercedes is responsible for making it so
that you can't (legally...without reverse-engineering) use one of
their engines in a Chevrolet". Certainly that's completely true,
but....so? :shrug:

Has Bill Gates been designing his Windows OS so it runs natively
on Apple hardware?
If not, then what's your point?

[Ignacio Upton]

112. Actually, Windows now can run on a Mac

Due to Apple switching over to Intel for their processors. And by proprietary format, I didn't say that the ipod can't play mp3's (the ipod never would have caught on with consumers had this been the case..both file-sharers, and older folks with huge CD collections that they want to rip into mp3's.) The songs that you are locked into are those that you download from the itunes store, which are made from a AAC or mpeg-4 format with DRM encoded on it.

[Ignacio Upton]

17. I thought that MAFIAA pressured them into installing something

That destroys and retards the quality of non-protected movie content? I haven't heard of the RIAA portion of MAFIAA doing this, but I heard that the MPAA has been lobbying Gates to do it.

[Kutjara]

21. The capability is certainly there, but...

...M$ haven't implemented it as a feature in Vista...yet. You can still download an MP3 or movie using something like Limewire, then play it on your PC at full quality.

The only people M$ have screwed over are legitimate users. People using an mp3 player that that conforms to M$'s "Plays for Sure" standard can't port the music they bought for that player over to M$'s new Zune player (assuming they are clueless enough to have bought a Zune in the first place.) So M$ have clearly shown that they view DRM as a means of securing multiple payments for the same product, and have shafted their own customers as a proof of concept.

[Ignacio Upton]

23. Reason why they won't: There's no way to tell if those mp3's are file-shared

Downloading from p2p is not the only way to have mp3's on your computer. You can also rip tracks from your CD's. There's no way in hell that M$ will target music for that reason...lest they piss off a lot of older users who have spent years accumulating CD's and want to rip them so they can consolidate their music collection to play on an ipod.

[guruoo]

58. Doesn't Windows Media Player have that ability?

[Traveling_Home]

10. I built a unit ....

and added Vista. Love it - have auto updates set and no problem with any of the ones I've gotten. There have been a few programs that I used previously that aren't Vista compatible (Replay Music) so I created a second partition and installed XP. No problems with either set up.

T

[zulchzulu]

11. I'll install Vista after Service Pack 2 is firmly tested

Vista is not much different in any major way than Windows 2000 with a couple bells and whistles and some OS lipstick. That's what a friend who works for The Dark Side has told me...

I've heard all kinds of goofy stuff with Vista and networking to make me stay far away from it. The shadow of a Vista Installer disk will not get anywhere near the PCs I use and am responsible for...

[hvn_nbr_2]

40. I'll install Vista after flaming 5-legged monkeys fly through keyholes on Feb. 30...

with green, rabid penguins playing lacrosse on their backs.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

12. Haven't heard of anything yet.. did u go to the tech forums?

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?query=vista&cboDiscussionGroup=en_US_C6E632CE-6D32-4D10-89F3-1274BDEFED6E%3Amicrosoft.public.windowsupdate%3Aen%3AUS%3A%3AD1CBF0BD-E8EE-4D73-8ECC-15AF7EC6783B%3A%3A&=Go&dg=microsoft.public.windowsupdate&cat=en_US_C6E632CE-6D32-4D10-89F3-1274BDEFED6E&lang=en&cr=US&pt=&catlist=D1CBF0BD-E8EE-4D73-8ECC-15AF7EC6783B&dglist=&ptlist=&exp=&sloc=en-us

[GrantDem]

20. No Windows here...

Mac baby...

[Junkdrawer]

25. Windows 2K Pro....I hate XP and I don't want to think about Vista...

And I'm a big .NET developer....

[dweller]

34. seriously

i will not upgrade further.

dp

[Junkdrawer]

36. I have a "multi-os" box I use to test apps...but my main development box is Win 2K pro...

I suppose I'll have to format a partition and slap Vista on it eventually....
:(

[dweller]

52. nah, just slap Vista virtually /nt

:D

dp

[Pale Blue Dot]

26. As a retailer that sells it, Vista has been a DISASTER.

I've decided that my new computer will be a Mac.

[Ignacio Upton]

30. Question: Why has it been doing well in terms of sales?

It's already outpacing XP's initial sales rate. Personally, I think it has to do with economic climate and a willingness to buy new computers. XP came out just two months after 9/11, whereas Vista's release has come out in an economy that, while not roaring like the '90s, is at least half-ass better than late 2001.

[Pale Blue Dot]

33. There was a ton of initial interest.

I think it has to do with the psychology of the modern consumer, but regardless, sales at first were very strong. What has been a disaster is the return rate. People can't get Vista to work with any of their old stuff, and there is simply not enough new with the product to make it worth their while to update everything. They are really, really pissed off about it, and it's retailers who are feeling the brunt of it.

I strongly expect you to see sales drop precipitously soon.

[The Cleaner]

83. Right - I read a review that confirmed "non-vista software" won't work.

So you must go out and purchase all new, "vista-compatible" software. :(

They really are screwing us.

[liberalEd]

117. What are you talking about?

The ONLY piece of software that didn't work under Vista for me was iTunes from Apple, and that's much better with the latest release.

Beyond that, I sucessfully installed PhotoShop CS2, PhotoShop CS3 (beta), Dreamweaver 8, Lightroom 1, Palm (for syncing PDA), Color management software (including monitor profiling), Qimage, putty, winmerge, Tortoise CVS client, Apache web server, MySQL, AnyDVD, Clone DVD 2, Clone DVD mobile, and many many more. All moved from an XP system without having to "buy all new vista-compatible software."

Some of this software hadn't been updated in years, and it works just fine under Vista.

There are exceptions (as I said above, iTunes was miserable at first) but non-compatible software seems to be a small percentage - an exception, not the rule.

[Crabby Appleton]

65. MS has been using enron-style math to calculate sales figures

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2108207,00.asp

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/stacking_vista_licenses_too_high.html?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535

[FogerRox]

28. I bought one of the last XP notebooks in late '06

wouldn't touch Vista with Bush's willy.

[porphyrian]

31. I'm not paying to beta test that piece of shit for microsoft.

When I have to replace my computer and it comes standard with it, I'll deal with it. But that won't be for a couple of years at least, and all the major bugs should be worked out by the general public for them by then.

[tulsakatz]

32. I don't want to download Vista........

....until I hear a reason why I should. For instance, I've heard some programs work with Vista and some don't. I'm not downloading it until I hear some of the benefits of it.

I hadn't heard that about the service charge.....thanks for the tip.

[133724]

46. I got n email from Intuit

install vista & you automatically will have to upgrade to Qucikbooks 2007...

Woww what a deal.....

[C_U_L8R]

37. mmmmmmmmmacintosh

just sayin'...been mac for 20 years and never regretted it for a moment

[uppityperson]

38. Thinking of a new computer but won't get one with Vista.

Guess new will = used for me.

[guruoo]

42. Couldn't you just create a second partition, install XP, Linux, or OSX86....

then scrub, and reformat the original Vista partition?

[uppityperson]

43. Most of those words I have heard of. Somone may be able to. Not me though.

:rofl: computer nerd here, would need to employ UPJr which is a good idea. Thank you.

[Richard Steele]

44. New Macs don't have Vista. Unless you want them to, of course.

Just sayin'. :hi:

[guruoo]

47. I assumed they were referring to a non-Apple PC

I still have my Power Computing Pro210, W/OS9 humming away
on the rack next to my Thinkpad. I still use it too,
mostly for network traffic monitoring, and light graphics editing.

[Richard Steele]

49. Well, she just said "computer", so I figured I'd throw it out there.

The oldest box I still have in regular use right now is
a 1994 Powermac with OS8.5 that I keep to operate my old
Umax scanner.

95mhz processor & 500mb HD: futuristic high tech shit! :rofl:

[uppityperson]

50. New Macs cost a lot and don't run my billing program.

But still, it is tempting.

[Barking Spider]

74. That's a myth.

Mac's are not more expensive. Compare a PC and a Mac with equal specs.

And because they are intel-based now, you can dual boot Windows or Linux if you really need to run specific programs. But chances are, there is a Mac equivalent.

[uppityperson]

79. I can get a $500 PC that will run my program, watch DVDs, lowest priced

laptop macbrand is around $2000. I am not comparing compatibles but what I need. If you could find me a laptop mac that would run my billing program and I could watch movies on (slow time at work) for $500, I'd consider it.

[Poiuyt]

89. Not $2000. Cheapest Mac laptop starts at $1099, Mac Mini is $599

Both of those will run the Mac OX, or Windows XP or Vista

[uppityperson]

102. Thank you. I didn't know that, will have to check into it.

Seriously, thank you.

[B3Nut]

109. Mac Mini needs more RAM out of the box

512MB isn't enough if you're running any large apps. I deployed the latest $799 Mini (1.83GHz Intel Core 2 Duo) in the advertising department and attempting to run Photoshop or Illustrator (still not recompiled for the Intel chip yet, they run under the Rosetta translation engine) turned the little Mini into an expensive doorstop. Dog slow. My old PPC603-based Performa 6200CD (Apple's worst motherboard design ever, crippling the PPC chip...Michael Spindler oversaw the making of that wretched abortion, yet I loved that dumpy computer anyway) ran Photoshop faster. Maxing the Mini's RAM at 2GB sped it up considerably.

If you're just going to run Safari, iTunes, and iWork, the stock config works OK. Beyond that, get at least a gig, 2GB preferably. Hell, that goes for any system nowadays. Vista should have at least a gig (at 1GB my laptop seems happy, though I have 2GB in my Vista desktop)...indeed, we're finding XP to need 1GB these days for point-of-sale apps, odd crashes at 512MB went away when the RAM was doubled.

To touch on the OP, I haven't run into that issue with Vista (we're testing it in-house and on home systems). We're liking it a lot so far, I definitely prefer it to XP, OS X, and any Linux distro I've tried. I'll keep an eye out for any issues, but it's been great so far. Oh, and with the latest version of Boot Camp, Vista runs on an Intel Mac. :D

Todd in Beerbratistan

[Poiuyt]

125. You're right that the mini (and most computers) need at least 1gb

I have one of the first generation minis and I put 1gb in right away. Of course, the mini was never meant to be a graphics powerhouse. But, like you say, for web browsing and word processing, it's great. I also have a dual G5 PowerMac that I use for heavy work.

[dansolo]

105. I just recently got a new laptop with XP

http://www.directron.com/a8fm4p002ma.html

[dragonlady]

39. Switch to Linux

This kind of stuff won't happen any more and you won't be enriching Micro$oft. :bounce:

[OneBlueSky]

64. I'd like to switch, but the learning curve scares me . . . I'm no computer expert . . .

and can't imagine what I'd have to endure to learn a whole new operating system, not to mention either replacing my add-on software or figuring out how to run it under the new system . . . I despise Microsoft, but I'm afraid I'm stuck . . .

[dragonlady]

72. I know what you mean

I'm just barely computer literate. Fortunately, dragonson is a computer genius and he set up the system for me. (He's "root," the system administrator who has power over everything.) Once it's put together it works great.

If you don't know such a person, you might still go part of the way by getting some of the open source software like OpenOffice.org. It works just like MS Office but doesn't screw up. I had that for quite a while running under Windows before we went completely off Micro$oft. Good luck!

[meldroc]

80. My view on the learning curve: it's worth it.

Yes, Linux does have a learning curve - it's essentially an implementation of Unix, though usually with a relatively friendly graphical shell like KDE or GNOME running on top so most users don't have to have a bachelor's degree in computer science, but there are still plenty of gotchas.

But like I said, it's all worth it to have a system that's yours, under your control, not government control, or Microsoft control. Linux's "killer app" is freedom, and that's something that Apple and Microsoft will never provide. Have Linux on your system, learn how to use it, and you have true freedom to use your computer as you see fit. There are no EULAs, no DRM, no registration, just install it, copy it, do what you want.

[liberalEd]

77. Linux is great for servers

But for many people it is useless as a desktop since there is not enough support from software companies. The open office stuff helps, but it's not enough.

If the Linux world can get Adobe to port its creative suite, that would go a long way to making it viable. Until then, it's "hobbyist" level as a desktop OS.

But you can't beat it as a server (well, Unix can beat it, but we're splitting hairs there).

[rman]

107. All common tasks can be done on Linux desktop by non-computer geeks.

Using Linux as a server requires specialized knowledge - more so that any MS server OS.

I don't know when you last checked out linux desktop, but it's been evolving rapidly in the past few years.

[liberalEd]

113. Desktop Linux NEEDS support from the big software companies

It's useless for me until Adobe releases creative suite for Linux. I need PhotoShop (not a photoshop-like program, I need the real PhotoShop). I need to create websites based on Dreamweaver Templates.

As I said, Linux makes a great server. Linux desktop may be OK for email and web browsing, in fact I know it is. However, it needs support from software makers before it can be a serious contender.

Oh, and don't forget the serious gamers. For them, even Mac isn't good enough.

[dapper]

41. I work in tech support :-(

It's getting worse and worse! We are expected to do so much more now than we have ever done before and the quality of service has gone down hill!!!! not our fault! Especially since our department has a "hiring freeze".

I want to point out a few things... I called tech support for a GPS Unit that I entered all my registration online. 9 months later it was not working. I submitted a request online, it took two weeks to get a reply, they asked for more information... information that was entered when I registered the unit and information I entered when I submitted the request online. I finally called them after waiting over a month and after hearing my wait time would be about an hour, I hung up. When I finally had the chance to call, I got through after 45 minutes and the guy (India?) wanted me to supply my recipt from the store... He hardly understood english and I hardly understood his broken english. I tried to call back after getting a copy of the recipt, it went back and forth and then I finally emailed every email address of the company I could... Finally I got a call from a girl who hardly understood english, she told me the unit I purchased was shipped from the warehouse over a year ago and the warranty was expired. I explained that the unit might have been shipped from the warehouse over a year ago but I purchased it from a store only 9 months ago.... to make a long one short, they agreed to fix it... This was 2 months after my original support request.

AND AND... they are coming here! Because I work for technical support, I take calls for all of North America. One of the ways we confirm someones ID is by confirming the last 4 of their SS#. I received a call just this week from someone who was working at one of our locations in the US. As normal practice, I asked the guy for his last 4 of his SS#, he told me he doesn't have one yet?!?!?!?!
How can he be working here/living here without a SS#?

Sorry but after having my own job outsourced to India, I'm probably a bit sensitive how they are bringing people to the states to take our jobs.

I've been doing tech support for 15?? years... it use to be fun, it use to be a learning experience but now the companies I have been with just want you to take as many calls as you can, if you can't resolve it after like 5 minutes send it to the next level. If I know I can fix the issue in 10 minutes, they don't care, they just want you to send it to the next level. The one thing that pissed me off and it should piss you off too is that they are hiring people with absolutely no experience and expecting us to train them. Tech support sucks! but hopefully you guys can understand when you give us a call, it's not always us controlling the call, generally it is the powers that be dictating the call flow.

For the first time in my life, I've had it with tech support. Like I said, it use to be fun, it use to be a great learning experience, it use to be great hearing the people who you just fixed their issue saying "Thank You". Now I feel like I'm just saying the same thing over and over 40-60 times a day. Time to retool and move on.

Dapper

[pushycat]

103. Dapper - you are not alone. Learning used to be fun to me too,

Being in the software business for the past 28 years, one gets used to learning a new language every two or so years. You learn as fast as you can. It's all about 'garbage in/garbage out', no matter the syntax. You look for ways to do the same things only with new verbs, new intefaces, etc.

IMO, much of business leadership today lacks an appreciation of quality that should take time to do things right. Quality seems to be less valued than quantity. Think factory farms whether its people or animals....

[WillyT]

45. Question From Dummys !!! - Didn't MicroSoft Buy Apple A While Back ???

And if that's true, what prevents MS from pulling this same shit on Mac users someday???

Is it Linux or bust now???

:shrug:

[Elwood P Dowd]

48. No, Microsoft did not buy Apple.

Where in hell did you get that idea? Gates purchased some Apple stock one time, but he doesn't own a majority interest in the company.

[WillyT]

54. Well Day-Um Elwoood... Ya Don't Haff Ta Git All Hot And Bothered...

I say, I say... I did put 'dummy' in the subjict line, as'in I was'in shore 'bout ma facts, but ya don't haff ta git all up my poop shoot do ya? Shoot.

Isa spectin they don't allow ya 2 neer the hep desk, now do they, Elwoood?

:evilgrin:

[Elwood P Dowd]

56. Me and Harvey are having a drink.

How 'bout you?

:beer:

[WillyT]

57. Skoal Brother !!!

:beer:

:hi:

[dapper]

69. No but I believe Bill Gates bought stock in Apple

There was rumor of a relationship though.

Dapper

[nashville_brook]

51. here's a workaround >>

[Elwood P Dowd]

53. I want one!

Buy can't afford it. Still stuck with a lowly iBook and older iMac. What is a Nashville Brook?

[nashville_brook]

70. been a mac person since the SE-30...

nashville_brook is a person who used to live in nashville. :)

[nashville_brook]

71. been a mac person since the SE-30...

nashville_brook is a person who used to live in nashville. :)

[Zhade]

55. Fuck Vista - its DRM "trusted computing" BULLSHIT is slaveware.

And it's a buggy piece of shit.

[meldroc]

76. Slaveware - I like that term.

Next time somebody bitches about XP or Vista or even OS X putting them through DRM hell, I'll be using the term slaveware.

This is why I use Linux.

[lildreamer316]

59. I've been my OWN tech support TWICE now.

I had to call in on Microsoft and HP related issues in the last 4 months. Both times I got someone from India on the phone. After an two and a half hours gettng nowhere and them not listening to what I was saying; both times I hung up; girded my loins, and dove in to figure it out myself.
Which, I'm proud to say, I did.
I don't know that I'll be as lucky next time; but I guess I'll just have to be!

[mahina]

60. Vista killed my ipod-

my beautiful ipod. Sniff.

You can't buy a computer without vista now unless it's a mac, and they are too expensive. We got a great new system for 900 bucks, flat screen, super duper...I have to get rid of f-in vista though.

Not too sure how to do that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Format C and load XP

problem is, do you have XP disks?

[MichaelHarris]

118. Yes

I have all my original disks. I run XP on my laptop but I had decided to install Vista on my photo editing computer. It's been nice except for this thing. If it happens again, say after the 90 days will they have me paying 59 dollars every time I need a new authentication number?

There have been some network issues with my wireless network but I've fixed those.

[Omphaloskepsis]

66. Run Windows Update... I think this was just fixed..

Also see.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/933824/

And get the newest version of iTunes.


And funny, the C2D intel iMac I type this on was $899... I saved a hundred with the EDU discount.

[Barking Spider]

73. Macs are not too expensive

You can get a new iMac for $900. Mac-mini for less. And how much extra would you pay for the following if offered for your PC: No Microsoft OS. No virus protection needed. No spyware needed. And it definately won't kill your ipod.

Just sayin'.

[mahina]

88. Thanks

but it was about a 600$ difference for comparable processor speed and a 320 gig drive. And I also have a G4, and have buried two imacs.

[FreeState]

123. Guess you should have looked at Apples site

You can't buy a computer without vista now unless it's a mac, and they are too expensive. We got a great new system for 900 bucks, flat screen, super duper...I have to get rid of f-in vista though.

You bought a system for $900.

Lets see...


iMac for $999.00 (17" Screen included)
MacMini $5999 (works with your current monitor)
13" MacBook $1099 (screen included)

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Linux???????????????

I am getting to that point, or just plain vanilla XP

[pinniped]

67. That's pretty f-ed up.

Those snakes are still up to their same tricks.

[MadHound]

68. Just another reason why I'll continue to stick with Macs

No activation number fees, no gratuitious bullshit. Just a rock solid OS that does what I want, when I want to do it. I've worked with Windows, all the way up to XP, and have always found it to be a nightmare. I feel for those who got sucked into Vista.

[Jonathan50]

82. We had a computer at work that was running a custom DOS point of sale program..

Ran the DOS program under Windows 3.1 for years (8?, 9?) on a 386/50.

I was amazed at how reliable the setup was.

I've just about forgotten all the old DOS command line stuff I used to know and am not enthusiastic about learning the same sort of thing again.

Is there a Linux distro that doesn't require going to the command line ever?

[meldroc]

75. Give me Linux or give me death!!!

Linux is 100% DRM free, and if you need help, there's a huge community of enthusiastic computer geeks who actually know their stuff (unlike those guys in the Bangalore outsource call centers) who'll get you going.

Probably the most desktop-friendly, user-friendly distro out there is Ubuntu Linux, which you can download for free at http://www.ubuntu.com/ .

Linux is truly free, not just free-as-in-beer, but free-as-in-freedom. There's no DRM. No onerous click-through EULAs. No registration numbers. You won't get locked out of your own system because the DRM malfunctioned. Ubuntu does not phone home to the corporate masters. You can copy it, install it on as many machines as you want, give it to your friends, etc.

Yes, it has a learning curve. Trust me, it's worth it. Like I said, lots of knowledgeable computer geeks who do this for fun will help you out.

[Jonathan50]

87. Closed source vs Open source software...

Closed source:
Stuff made by evil companies where we can't read the source so it must be insecure

Open Source:
Stuff made by people with to much spare time and no communication skills so the source we can read is not understandable so it must be secure.


From:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/08/the_devils_info.html

Some funny stuff there..

[cyborg_jim]

94. Wrong, rather than funny.

The simple fact is that much of the code produced by the Open Source world is simply superior and would die on its feet if communication skills were an issue.

The simple fact is that when a company sells you software its security, reliability, construction quality and so forth are simply not an issue - because none of that crap matters as long as you can sell the product and say you have those things.

[dragonlady]

95. I've used open source for a while now

and I'm very happy with it. OpenOffice.org does everything Office does that the vast majority of people would need (word processing, spreadsheet, etc.) and it doesn't crash. Price: $0.00. Value: priceless.

[Jonathan50]

96. I know, I'm no real fan of Microsoft...

I checked out the Ubuntu distro, it wants two gigs of hard drive space and thanks to a number of reasons I just don't have that much drive space left.

My computer is old, the disk has crashed before and I don't have the money to replace any of it right now.

Can I set up two separate drives C and D and then boot from one or the other? I have an extra drive around so that shouldn't be a problem.

[meldroc]

100. Yes you can!

Linux, including Ubuntu Linux, includes a boot manager called GRUB that will let you dual-boot. Just go ahead and put the second drive in your system, run the ubuntu installer, and it will ask you where you want to put the Linux partitions, and you can specify that they go on a second hard disk. It will automatically set things up so when you boot, you'll get a menu that lets you choose whether to boot Windows or Linux.

[meldroc]

99. Speaking as a software engineer...

Yes, I do this for a living. I've seen the source code for quite a few open source projects, and source code for a lot of closed source projects. On both sides, I've seen sloppy code and I've seen good, clean code, but only in the world of commercial code have I seen truly nightmarish code. When I worked for a major hardware manufacturer a few years ago, I saw the Codebase From Hell. For those of you who know programming, think of a codebase where #ifdef is used in place of source code repository changesets, assembly and C is mixed together, but the assembler doesn't conform to the C calling convention, forcing you to use global variables just to pass parameters in function calls.

For those of you who don't understand what I just said, it's best that you don't. This piece of software was truly a Lovecraftian horror!

[cyborg_jim]

106. Well that is my point - such extremishly nightmarish scenarios cannot exist in OSS world

Because such projects would just die or be reinvented.

[rman]

108. All fun, no truth

But what can you expect from Open Source opponents?

[Jersey Devil]

78. Sounds like someone monkeyed with your registry, not Vista

People who run registry cleaner programs and have no idea what they are doing wind up doing this all the time. A Windows update could not possibly do what you suggest.

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

104. I'm not a fan of vista..

but it does sound like an registry problem. Maby a bug or someone hacked it.

[MichaelHarris]

119. nope

no registry cleaner, only change was a windows update. I know the Windows registry very well, also even though Microsoft still wanted to blame me, just as you did they took the time to write a KB article about it. Funny, if it was only me why take the time to post a KB article.

[TornadoTN]

85. I run Vista and I have no issues with it all with old software, etc.

I know a lot of people dislike MS and for good reason. However, I own a PC at home and recently purchased a new desktop for the office, both with Vista. They both have run very well with old software and everything has been plugging along very smoothly. Personally, I like it better than XP at this point from a stability standpoint. All of my Adobe CS applications, Maya, Quark, and Macromedia apps run very well and our ages old inventory/shop system runs without any hiccups (it was a constant problem in XP). For me, its been a good investment and I happen to like the direction they have taken the system. Plus, Office 07 is outstanding.

That being said, I read these horror stories and I am amazed. It's not that I don't believe them, but I find it strange that I haven't been hit with these issues with all of the older software I run. Just for safe measure, I own a Mac laptop and run a lot of the new high-end design and engineering software on a Mac Pro Quad-Core.

[liberalEd]

90. Me too, no real issues with Vista

I wouldn't go out and get Vista to install on an XP computer. I don't think the improvements are worth the cost of upgrade.

However, I needed a new computer and ones with Vista were the best deal. I've been able to install everything I need, including Adobe and Macromedia apps with no trouble. I also run MySQL and Apache web servers without any issues. The only software that gave me any trouble was iTunes, and recent updates from Apple have resolved that as well.

There is a lot of FUD out there. On another board someone posted an article claiming that web sites that aren't completely rewritten in XAML will not work on Vista. Even after I posted that I was looking at the website on a Vista computer, and I routinely develop non-XAML web sites and web apps under Vista, she wasn't convinced. :)

As far as I'm concerned, I don't particularly like the big corporations including Microsoft and Apple. However, not everything bad that happens can be traced back to Bill Gates.

The last office I worked in was full of Macs. From what I could see, they had the same types of issues and frequency of calls to IT for help as any Windows users.

[B3Nut]

110. Isn't all the FUD grand?

I was swayed a little by it, until I built a new machine to run Vista Ultimate. Aside from a couple minor glitches I'm very pleased with it, even the annoying User Account Control...it actually behaves like a Unix box or a Mac in regard to security. They've a ways to go yet, but they have done some good things. I don't like activation silliness (never liked it in XP or 2K3 Server either, having to call India and talk to someone I can barely understand to reactivate) but the few times I've needed to reactivate over the phone, it was always a matter of "is this installed on more than one machine?" "Nope!" "OK, here's the key etc." The wait's a hassle, as is reading numbers to the electric lady before she lets you talk to a human, but it's not that big a deal. So far I have Ultimate on my home surf'n'office desktop (my graphics/ProTools workstation stays XP) and Home Premium on my laptop, I really like it.

Where I work, we're an all-Windows shop except for four Macs in the ad department. I have more issues with the Macs than with over 100 XP boxen and around a dozen 2K3 server boxen. Usually it's dealing with Mac-to-Windows network issues. I'm pushing to get the ad department off the Windows servers and onto an Apple Xserve, that way the Mac world keeps to itself. I can still back the Xserve up to the Windows backup server.

That, and the Xserve is just a cool piece of hardware, it would look fab in the server rack. :D

Todd in Cheesecurdistan, IT mook

[frazzledmom]

91. Ah the MAC rules thread...

Please :eyes: I know 4 people running dual boot Macs, 3 of them have nothing but problems running XP on a Mac. I'd love to buy a MAC but I'm a gamer and MAC is crap for gaming. Same with Linux. Sure it would be nice to be free of MS but Linux doesn't have near the software I need and has no gaming support. I won't buy Vista until there is something I need that just won't run without DX10 or Vista. And when I do buy it I will purchase it so I have a legitimate and then I will use the cracks that are already floating around to keep MS out of my system. Just like I did with XP.

Edit: Walldude here posting on my wife's account, had to mention this before someone got on her case for using cracks.

[Marnieworld]

92. Wow. How FUBAR

I too work in IT and this would infuriate me. I am so glad that none of the computers I deal with have Vista and thanks to you :hi: I doubt I will change anytime soon.

Help desks in India are horrible. They just speak from a script and they have no idea what they are talking about.

Once I called Symantec thinking that their firewall was interfering with a program and I just wanted help adjusting the settings and control the traffic so the program would work. Before I knew it, step by step they had me uninstall the program, a program that was functioning correctly and did not have to be re-installed. I just wanted help using it. And this bullshit cost the company $30 too. They got very angry with me when I tried to break their script when I realized what was happening.

Idiots. All of them.

I can't imagine this outsourcing lasting forever because the quality is so bad. I hope.

[MyNameGoesHere]

97. "my computer has been the same since I built it a number of months ago."

Official Vista release has only been over a month ago. You had a pre RTM copy i suppose? If that is the case i can see what the "issue" is.

[MichaelHarris]

114. No

I had XP on it and when Vista came out I bought it. All my software is legal which makes this even stranger, why would a Vista automatic update delete all my certification numbers? This computer was built for my photos, very little software on it.

[MyNameGoesHere]

124. Don't know why

one system out of a few hundred thousand messes up. But i also believe 70% of the world should not be allowed to own computers. I look at it this way, they drive like they operate their system, that's a scary thought.

[MichaelHarris]

126. trust me

I'm not one of those 70%, I've been messing with computers since the Altair. Put together more than 300 computers and wrote software for many people, not to mention working for Microsoft for 5 years. No new software, no new hardware, router logs show nothing out of the ordinary except the MS automatic update. Nothing has changed at all on my system but that update.

[MyNameGoesHere]

127. Cool then you should be able to

see the cause in the error logs. My guess. Software was not legal through no fault of yours, or the original activation went squirrelly. Either way Vista pretty much writes everything under the sun to logs now. Should be a clue there. And yada yada yada been the first computer system i worked on had punch cards, it's immaterial. I have seen 30 year computer "professionals" that are complete morans when it comes to common sense analyzing and troubleshooting gremlins.

[Initech]

101. $59 for a tech support call? Fuck that!

Glad I didn't switch to Vista, I think it sucks and it will probably wind up biting Microsoft in the ass later on.

[milkyway]

115. All new Macs will probably be announced April 15; certainly desktops and

maybe iMacs. Jobs willl be giving the keynote at the National Association of Broadcasters Conference. It is only speculation, of course, but Jobs uses keynotes like this to intro products. The desktops almost certainly will be a new design, with quad-core and maybe even octa-core processors. A newly designed iMac is in the works, and might also be introduced at NAB.

With the Leopard OS due this quarter and Adobe's CS3 (not to mention iPhone), the second quarter of this year will be a great time to say goodbye to all the Windows bullshit (and if you insist, Apple's Bootcamp will let you run Vista on a Mac).

http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2585

[EdwardM]

120. Well thank God for BitTorrent.

I remember back in Jr. High they made me watch this horrible video "Don't copy that floppy." Everyone should watch it, it's propaganda at it's worst. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4837609090332617729 They say in it you should not pirate software because it will hurt the industry, and they will be there for tech support if you buy a legitimate version. Well now it looks like they changed their mind and will now charge you 60 bucks after you spend 240 bucks buying the overpriced software. Looks like I won't be "buying" Vista anytime soon.

[Yavin4]

121. I Own My Last Windows PC

My next PC will be LINUX, probably in about a year or so. I only bought a Dell PC for work, but my work environment will be switching over to ORACLE soon or at least I hope.

[Yavin4]

122. You Violated The First Rule of Any New Windows OS

You wait until the product is out for a year. You let some other poor fo...um...user get their data wiped out by the new OS. Then you watch for the patch parade. Then you find a really good reason to stay with M$, like your job or the industry that you're in, and then when you just cannot wait any longer, you get the new OS.