For all the DUer's tearing down John Edwards...

[cynatnite]

I wonder how many people you could feed for what your computer cost. How many people could you feed for your extra spending? Do you want to post pictures of your house, your car, your clothes and everything else? Then we here at DU can pick apart what you own and determine for ourselves what is excessive and tear you down for it.

[NaturalHigh]

1. Good point, but then again...

I'm not running for president. Right or wrong, everything about every candidate is going to be scrutinized by the press.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. And has anyone taken a moment to consider...

That this kind of swiftboating was put together and brought out by right wingers, many of whom own houses that make Edward's look like an outhouse?

All the scolds need to go take a double dose of their meds and lie down for a while.

[Pale Blue Dot]

23. I don't think right-wingers had anything to do with it.

I think right-wingers could care less who the Democratic nominee is.

This was an inside job.

[ClassWarrior]

34. From what I understand, this nastiness started at the Drudge...

...Rape-Port.

NGU.

[B Calm]

36. Someone who supports another candidate is my guess. Edwards

earned his money standing up for average person.

[BuyingThyme]

3. ::

Today, under George W. Bush, there are two Americas, not one: One America that does the work, another America that reaps the reward. One America that pays the taxes, another America that gets the tax breaks. One America that will do anything to leave its children a better life, another America that never has to do a thing because its children are already set for life. One America -- middle-class America - whose needs Washington has long forgotten, another America - narrow-interest America - whose every wish is Washington's command. One America that is struggling to get by, another America that can buy anything it wants, even a Congress and a President.

I've been fighting this fight my whole life. For 20 years, I have sat in courtrooms across from these people. I have been an advocate for families and their children against armies of lawyers. I've won most of those battles. In the Senate, I fought for the Patients' Bill of Rights, against big HMOs, against big insurance companies. I fought to bring down prescription drug costs for every American, against big drug companies. I fought to do something about drug company advertising on TV when others weren't willing to do it. I fought to create energy independence in this country.

I believe the backbone of the American economy is the hard work, determination, and ingenuity of the middle class, not the insiders. I believe the way to grow the economy is to grow and strengthen the middle class, not shrink its size and add to its burdens. I believe the way a rich nation gets richer is by giving all its citizens the chance to get richer, not by only helping those like me who've already succeeded beyond our wildest dreams. I believe the way to create new wealth is by rewarding work and responsibility, not coddling the privileged and going soft on executives, accountants, and analysts who squander other people's money.

For every man and woman who is worried about paying their bills; for every child who needs health care and a strong school to go to, and for every American who waits for the 1st and the 15th of every month -- together we will end this era of anxiety. We will replace the crass politics of greed and the current politics of rage with a new politics of opportunity.

[Erika]

4. Remember Reagan saying the rich deserved their wealth

and the poor deserved their poverty? That was the souless mantra of the Reagan administration.

John and Elizabeth Edwards knows there are two Americas, and wants to bridge the gap. He wants there to be one America.

The GOP status quo is quite comfortable with the haves and have nots. As W said to the "haves", "you are my kind of people".

[TomInTib]

5. I always thought that I was an OK guy..

And I am loving your post.

Sure, I may have paid a ton for my house, but I am going to live here for the rest of my life.

And that is that.

Tom

[Bjornsdotter]

6. It's his money

...not mine. If he wants to build a new house that's his business.

Cheers

[Crunchy Frog]

7. I haven't noticed much tearing down of Edwards here.

It seems more like he's being feted as a hero, as a matter of fact. Just my impression.

[chefgirl]

8. Excellent point

Reading all these ridiculous threads about the size of his house and the size of his bank account, as if either of those things should determine his fitness to be President, I can't help wondering.

How many of those particular DUers, who are tearing him down, would choose to live in a two/three BR tract house in suburbia if THEY had his bank account?? I'm pretty sure I already know the answer.

This kind of childish inanity and idealism is exactly why the RWers were able to paint us as 'The Loony Lefties' in the first place. Grow up and wake up, folks.

Tell me why the size of his house should have any bearing on whether or not he should be President.

-chef-

[NorthernSpy]

9. I just think it's an ugly house...

A lost opportunity to build something beautiful, I suppose.

[wtmusic]

12. The house calls into question his environmental priorities

and that's all it does. To some people that's more important than others.

To me, in this day and age, conspicuous excess of that degree appears irresponsible.

[chefgirl]

15. Really??

Elizabeth Edwards' blog at JohnEdwards.com:

John and I had been married just two years when, in July 1979, President Jimmy Carter gave one of several speeches he delivered on energy. It was a remarkable speech for many reasons, not the least of which was that it wasn't really a speech, it was a conversation, a plea maybe, and a call to action to each American. It was about not just what the government could do for us about the rising cost - in so many ways - of our dependency on fossil fuels; it was also about what WE as citizens could each do. Sound familiar? A national call to action.
I have talked a lot about that speech over the last years, about how President Carter asked each of us to make small sacrifices to improve our energy profile. You remember, if you are old enough, that among other things he asked us to turn our thermostats down and to put on a sweater. We get together to cheer at the Olympics; we get together to grieve and reassert our patriotism after September 11th. Certainly we can, as President Carter said, "get together as a nation to resolve our serious energy problem." It has been almost 28 years since that speech, and it is past time we get together on this.
Here is what our family has done and is doing.
We sold the conventional fuel SUV that we used to carry children, strollers, luggage and toys between Washington, DC and North Carolina, and we bought a hybrid, a Ford Escape.
Since we were building a home in Orange County, we decided to take advantage of some of the technology that President Carter had encouraged.
All the water (all of which comes from wells) in our home and some of the flooring is heated with solar energy.
We built a highly energy efficient house. In fact, our home is Energy-Star rated. Energy Star is an EPA regulated designation for homes that are at least 30 percent more efficient than the national Model Energy Code. In building we made sure we had effective insulation in floors, walls, and attics. We chose efficient heating and cooling equipment and high-performance windows. Our builder paid close attention to making sure the construction was tight to seal out drafts and moisture. The day the independent inspector came to evaluate the house, we were on pins and needles while he tested our home's energy performance. As he packed his equipment, he gave us the good news: we are an Energy-Star home!
We recycle, of course, although just yesterday we got our Orange County recycle bin. Until then we used the recycle facility just down the road. (The trash compactor I debated putting in is really useful for compacting cans and plastic, it turns out.)
And as the incandescent light bulbs the electrician installed in our fixtures burn out, we are replacing them with fluorescent bulbs. If you are thinking that we are living now in harsh light, with buzzing sounds and constant flickers, you are thinking of your grandmother's fluorescent bulbs. There are a wide range of shapes and fittings available now; there are even dimmable fluorescents, and honestly I cannot tell without checking which of our bulbs are still incandescent and which are now - and will continue to be -- fluorescent. Switching is a little bit of a bite, because the bulbs are more expensive (although Costco and eBay have some good prices), but replacing a single 60 watt incandescent with a 15 watt fluorescent you use just six hours a day could see an energy savings of more than $40 over the 4 year (4 year!) life of the bulb. And it is not just energy. A single fluorescent bulb "can prevent more than 450 pounds of emissions from a power plant over its lifetime" according to the Energy-Star website. That same site has these incredible statistics: "If every American home replaced just one light bulb with an ENERGY STAR, we would save enough energy to light more than 2.5 million homes for a year and prevent greenhouse gases equivalent to the emissions of nearly 800,000 cars." One bulb.

I dont know, seems pretty environmentally responsible to me.

-chef-

[wtmusic]

18. Let's take a closer look at this

By buying a hybrid Escape, the Edwards get 10 extra mpg over the comparable gas-powered Escape.

Using solar panels to help heat water, being rated as Energy Star compliant, and using flourescent light bulbs certainly are good moves for anyone to reduce their energy consumption. But in Edwards case, it sounds a little bit like a Hummer owner claiming green credentials because he got a tune up -- instead of 10mpg he now gets 12.

How many trees were cut down to build his mansion? How much CO₂ had they been pulling from the atmosphere? In comparison, and without doing any calculations, it seems fairly obvious that all of his gestures amount to just that -- gestures.

[spag68]

10. Anyone bitching about his house

should wake up and smell the roses. 4.5 or 6 mil. is certainly not my neighberhood, but further out on Long Island in the Hamptons that doesn't get that much. It's his money so rule one applies NMB.

[nam78_two]

11. None of us can be sure we leave no ecological footprint

I think a person can have a huge SUV, a McMansion etc. etc. and still be progressive...
I start thinking that they are not so, when even considering the question of our personal consumption choices is somehow anathema....

All we can do is try our best. But when we take the position of "I'll do whatever the fuck I want..I am not even interested in considering these issues..screw them. All I am interested in is hating Bush"...well while I agree that they could be progressive on a host of other issues, it certainly means to me that they have closed their mind to serious environmental considerations...

This isn't about being holy (why does it always come down to that)? One should be able to discuss sustainability and consumerism, without it becoming such a personal issue.

[wtmusic]

13. This is where Libertarianism falls short

No, it's not OK to "do whatever we want, as long as it doesn't affect others", because in truth everything we do affects others.

In John Edwards' case he happens to be a high-profile figure who is not only consuming excessively, but setting an example that consuming excessively is acceptable.

In 2007 that don't wash with this voter.

[nam78_two]

14. Agreed.nt

[Quixote1818]

16. Edwards probably helped feed a lot of people with that house

The builder, the contractor, the landscaper, the interior designer, the guy who put in the floors, the lady who installed the electricity, the architect etc. etc. etc.

People forget that building a house actually helps a lot of people.

[leftofthedial]

17. I don't have a 30,000 square foot computer

I'm sorry, but people with houses like that are the enemies of the planet.

[RetroLounge]

25. And how many square feet is the White House?

:shrug:

RL

[Nutmegger]

37. 55,000 Square Feet

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=58441&mesg_id=58441

[skygazer]

28. So why is Edwards the only one being villified?

How big are Hillary's houses? How big is Ted Kennedy's house? How big is Kerry's place? Or Pelosi's?

For that matter, how big is the Bush compound in Maine? Or the ranch in Crawford? Or Cheney's house? Or any other politicians?

Why do people automatically assume that if someone builds a big house, they're doing nothing for other people? Or that it's automatically an ecological nightmare? Newsflash - you can build a large and envioronmentally friendly house. Not to mention the fact that the home itself is not 30,000 square feet but hey, facts don't really matter.

I have never seen this much mud thrown about the size of a candidate's house and it's absurd because I can just about guarantee they all have very large houses.

What is the cutoff for a Dem candidate again? How many square feet is acceptable?

What a non-issue!

[ClassWarrior]

31. Ahhh, the 30,000 sq. ft. meme rears its deceptive head once again.

The fact that people have to lie about the numbers says a lot about their credibility.

NGU.

[Clark2008]

19. Fine, but I can and will tear him down for his idiotic postions

(plural and many and changing to whatever group he meets with) on Iran.

:eyes:

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

20. I voted Democrat and I shop at Wal-Mart ALL THE TIME !

And I love it.

I guess I am bad too.

[IndyOp]

41. You either voted DemocratIC or you voted "for Democrats." Stop the slur. (n/t)

[Zodiak]

21. Wow

Some people really do care about the size of his house, apparently.

I do not care one bit. I do admit that I am a libertarian-style liberal. You have a point with ecological footprint, but face it....only Gore qualifies for that stringent characteristic. If you are for Gore, just say it. I sure do....I am for Gore, as well.

But it has nothing to do with that. I just reject the idea that a rich politician is automatically disqualified to champion the poor. By that paradigm, the poor would have NO representation at all. Every single Senator is rich, and most of the House is, as well. It is a fact of life that I personally do not like, but it is a fact of life.

And poor people need representation now, not when America is ready to vote for a poor politician.

Yesterday, Ted Kennedy was posted all over the internet railing against the greed of Republicans. Was his rant disingenuous because the man is rich? What is his ecological footprint?

The pukes used this same strategy in 2004 against John Kerry. It was an under-handed tactic then, and it is an under-handed tactic, now.

[Annces]

22. Why does open debate equate to tearing someone down

There are no rules about how we discuss people or candidates. This forum is wide open with the exception of Israel, conspiracy theories, and a few others.

[huskerlaw]

24. And he wants an even BIGGER house!

Can't that man ever get enough??

I hear the house he wants is BIG and WHITE and comes with a shitload of staff. And it's a really old house, so it's probably not a green house...

AND he wants a job where he'll be traveling with an entourage. All of them in SUV's or limos! And he'll have his own plane, or, actually 3 of them. And a helicopter.

Fucking bastard. Doesn't give a shit about the poor people in this country or saving the environment.

:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[depakid]

30. It seems to me that they're more like critical thinkers

who sense a contradiction between his message and his actions.

[Guaranteed]

35. I think so too. nt

[Clark2008]

32. Why are Edwards people so trite?

I, personally, think the house thing is a bit much: a couple of threads regarding the hypocrisy of his campaigning as the "poor supporting" candidate and the house in regards to his EQ are fine, but it's gone over the top now.

However, not everyone who disagrees with Edwards' policies is a paid shill. They aren't jealous and they aren't Republicans. Why can't you Edwards folk answer the questions instead of accusing others?

I think his policy on Iran stinks. His policies on the Iraqi War and the Patriot Act stunk and I'm still trying to find what legislation he wrote when he was senator that would have helped the poor. All I can find is his helping out the banking industry and the IWR.

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. Well as long as he doesn't drive a Chevy Tahoe, he's golden!

:evilgrin: I like Edwards, always did and I couldn't care less what kind of house he has or what he drives, etc. And DUers have picked apart other DUers for what they drive. That's already been done.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cynatnite]

33. Paid Hillary shills?

How do you know that? Got a source? I didn't know there was such a thing as paid Hillary shills.

I'm not a big supporter of Edwards. I'm leaning towards Hillary, but I think this thing about Edwards' house is a non-issue.

[hfojvt]

38. a homeless person might think my lifestyle is excessive

two dogs, two computers, two trek bikes and two laptops, digital camera, ipod, 40 dvds, 200 cds, 50 videos, etc., etc. but it's kinda silly to pretend that $10,000 of excess is the same thing or the moral equivalent of $1,000,000.

My point is that the article and the reaction have clearly exaggerated the excess of Edwards
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=54475&mesg_id=54475

[WHAT]

39. SPAM

[AbbyR]

40. Isn't it odd

that all of this comes up when we should be focusing on what is good about candidates, and the ongoing protest in D.C.? Hmmm...

[IndyOp]

42. Sorry. No go. I sold my small three bedroom, two bath house

and moved to a teeny two bedroom, one bath house so I would have more money to give away and so that I could live more lightly on this earth. I stopped taking the dogs to exotic parks - all of 2 miles away - and walk in town. I've gone carbon neutral. I am not perfect about my spending, but I working to spend my money on goods produced by US companies that have good labor practices. I didn't have much to give up to start with, but I am giving.

The Edwards' have a family of 5 -- and Kate doesn't live with them -- and the two little ones are little. Sorry. I am disappointed.

Of course I am also disappointed to disgusted with the wealth of the Clinton's and Kerry's and everyone else living and driving beyond their needs. I was put off by the Kennedy's wealth, too - so let's not go there. I am also put off by Hollywood celebs and sport stars who live beyond their needs.

We are living in a very serious time and we are in desperate need of role models who are choosing to live simply.

I will still consider voting for Edwards - he has done a LOT of good in this world and I am disappointed in this excess.