Plane crash; Butte, Montana. Plane may have had kids heading for ski trip

[havocmom]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29828359/from/ET/

BUTTE, Mont. - A small plane — possibly carrying children on a ski trip — crashed Sunday as it approached the Butte airport, killing 14 to 17 people aboard, a federal official said. The single engine turboprop nose-dived into a cemetery 500 feet from its destination.

...

The aircraft had departed from Oroville, Calif., and the pilot had filed a flight plan showing a destination of Bozeman, about 85 miles southeast of Butte. But the pilot canceled his flight plan at some point and headed for Butte, Fergus said.

Preliminary reports indicate the dead include numerous children, he said. There were no known fatalities on the ground, he added.

Anyone who has flown in or out of Butte has probably had a twinge about the fact that there is a cematary just about next to the runways. Many have made dark jokes about that arrangement.

grim picture of it today.

[Breeze54]

1. So?

:shrug:

[havocmom]

2. gee, guess the FedEx crash was more interesting to you?

:shrug:

why'd ya click the thread if you don't care about air crashes?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. So? A plane crash with a bunch of kids is no big deal?

Sorry, I think it's a big deal.

[Dreamer Tatum]

4. Oh, forgot to mention: they were Democrats.

There, now you care, huh?

[NutmegYankee]

5. For someone who was worried about their son fighting in Iraq -

That's pretty screwed up.

[havocmom]

7. meh, her kid got home safe (according to profile)

guess that is all that matters? :eyes:

screwed up indeed. And cold. Fucking cold.

[emilyg]

21. Kids are not important in your world?

[havocmom]

6. Update: plane was certified to carry 12 people - reports it had 14-17 on board

http://www.mtstandard.com/articles/2009/03/22/area/hjjajghhibgejc.txt

...
Fergus said the Pilatus PC-12 aircraft was manufactured in 2001. Such planes are certified to carry 12 people.

The plane was registered to Eagle Cap Leasing Inc. in Enterprise, Ore., Fergus said. He didn't know who was operating the plane.

I. Felkamp is listed in Oregon corporate records as Eagle Cap's president. Attempts to reach him by phone were unsuccessful.

The flight originated at Brown Field Municipal airport in San Diego on Saturday evening and flew to Redlands, Calif., where it left Sunday morning for Vacaville, Calif., according to Flight Aware, a Web site that tracks air traffic. From there it flew to Oroville, Calif., and then to Butte. The NTSB could not confirm that information.

Sounds like they might have sold more seats than they had? Did some idiot figure 'ah well, they're kids, they're small'?

Somebody is gonna go down hard for this one.

:wtf:

[pokerfan]

13. 12?

Wiki says 9 and I trust wiki more than I do the MSM. Probably a misquote.

Capacity: 9 passengers standard, 6-8 executive

Address : <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12#Specifications_.28PC-12.29>

[hugo_from_TN]

14. Aren't these smaller planes sometimes configured differently than the standard?

The picture I saw that supported 9 passengers looked pretty roomy. I would think it could be configured for more with spacing more like commercial.

[havocmom]

15. 9 passangers and a crew = 12 people?

Not familiar with the plane, but the report said 12 people, not 12 passengers, so perhaps crew too?

Wondering why they had too many people on board. Trying to save a buck would be my guess.

Capitalism failing for same reason Communism failed: humans involved get too damned greedy.

[pokerfan]

17. I went over to the airliners.net forum

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4359084/1/#menu26

They're saying that there is a commuter configuration that seats 9+2 for a total of 11. So unless 6 of the 17 were lap-children (under 2-yo), it doesn't sound legal as reported.

This appears to be the craft:


Sad.

[havocmom]

18. Thanks for getting info an pic of the type of plane

I doubt 'lap sized kids' were off to Bozeman to ski.

[pokerfan]

20. That's not just the type

That's the actual plane. N128CM in happier times.

[havocmom]

24. LOL thanks. Ya think maybe I need to call it a night and get some sleep?

Happier times indeed. I used to live near several of the places that plane stopped at today. Damn, the sky is falling.

[pokerfan]

26. Not at all. English can be ambiguous.

I'm pretty familiar with Montana. My nephews went to MSU (for the skiing) and I live about an hour from Lookout Pass.

[uppityperson]

8. That is really sad.

[havocmom]

9. Passenger manifest looks to be trouble for SOMEBODY

Just how important is making a couple more bucks that you stuff a plane with more than it is allowed to carry?

Fucking capitalism is way over rated when this shit is going on.

[tom_paine]

10. A terrible tragedy. Words fail at a time like this.

n/t

[havocmom]

12. 2nd crash within a week, lad

Big Sky seems to be falling.

[CoffeeCat]

11. Any death is awful and horrible...

...but I tell ya, I have a friend and her husband was killed in a small
plane crash. His death would have been devastating no matter what
happened (she had three kids under 6, and she was pregnant when the crash
happened), but losing a loved one in a plane crash--it was so horrible for her. It's
such a violent way to go. Loved ones are left knowing that it wasn't sudden, and
there is literally nothing left. This kind of death has a pain all of it's
own and I feel for all of the loved ones who will begin the process of healing
and grieving for their loved ones. If children were killed, that is additionally
devastating. Those poor parents.

Sad.

[smalll]

16. Oh yeah. We've all "flown out of Butte" --

after a few days of skiing in Montana. Who hasn't? That's something we can ALL relate to. :crazy:

We Americans do NOT deserve to LIVE! We can sit around and bitch about such inconsequential things while people like NATASHA RICHARDSON -- a MOVIE star! -- who's the daughter of ANOTHER movie star! -- have to DIE!!!! What an atrocity!

Or when SMALL, PRIVATE planes go down, carrying with them groups of young children WHO WERE JUST TRYING TO GO SKIING!!!

Oh! The (rich) humanity! :nopity:

[havocmom]

19. Where did I say all have flown out of Butte? Jesus! What a misrable attitude

Have a nice fucking week and good luck with that empathy thing.

This would seem to be one more case of somebody cutting corners on safety to save a buck for profit.

What did the kids ever do to you, I wonder?

[emilyg]

23. Your name suits you.

[DS1]

28. No, but you're talking out of your Asse

[8 track mind]

22. hmmmm

Sounds like it was overloaded and the pilot stalled it coming in on approach. Sounds like greed is the culprit for this one.

[hugo_from_TN]

25. Since he diverted from Bozeman to Butte, it sounds like he had some problem to me.

Not simply a stall during a normal landing due to being overweight.

[havocmom]

27. Small plane crash about 150 miles from Butte other day

they figure icing on that one.

Wondered about fuel but the thing burned a long time after the crash in Butte, so seems there may have been plenty.

One report said 10 feet visibility, TV said it was good visibility. :shrug: Air has been cold/damp and there was a front moving through. Lots of snow north of there from the radar I watched all day.

That is one airport I would not want to fly into with a pilot who was unfamiliar with it. You sorta head straight into this enormous wall of mountain, then crank a hard turn and set it down at the food of same, just past the cemetery. It is disconcerting at best. Was glad it was night the first time my sister flew into Butte. But she had the misfortune of a seat-mate who told her all about what the dark was hiding.

[8 track mind]

30. probably right

Now with more details this morning and an eyewitness account of the plane making an odd turn. I wonder if the pilot was familiar with the airport.

[Belial]

29. Envy...

is an evil thing.. I was talking to a couple of people this morning.. they basically said something to the effect of "it serves the rich f*ckers right" Sigh.. Loss of life.. no matter who it is.. is a terrible thing..