Excessive. Gluttonous. Obscene. Insulting.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

Whether you think the house is anybody's business, I would bet every person here thinks those words apply to THAT house for a family of 4. Also that every person was at least slightly shocked that John Edwards built a 30,000 sq foot house. Also I would bet none would have ever predicted it from him either because it's a stupid political move or because it's out of line with his rhetoric.

I thought he was one of the more promising candidates because he is well positioned philosophically and geographically but this move was INSANE and I don't see him having the same appeal to voters.

[XemaSab]

1. Word.

n/t

[chimpymustgo]

162. Obsessive, ridiculous, unfair, STUPID. STOP the MADNESS!!! Go Edwards.

He earned his money. He built a house. He fights for the poor. Get over it.

[depakid]

163. He's earning it now by working in a Wall Street Hedge firm

That I can assure you, isn't interested in helping out the poor.

John Edwards Hits the Street
The 2004 Democratic candidate for Vice-President joins Fortress Investment

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/oct2005/nf20051013_3314_db016.htm

Seems a bit contradictory, to take that job, don't you think? Especially given the timing: the week before he launched the "two Americas" tour.

These sorts of things make reasonable people question his good judgment.

[Snotcicles]

171. I'm with you chimp. nt

[cynatnite]

2. Oh, the horror!

Building a house with your own money! That's just awful! I'm heartbroken! :cry:

:sarcasm:

NOT.

[roguevalley]

61. no one questions his money. i am astonished that he did this. for

a man running on a poverty platform- WHICH IS LONG OVERDUE, AMERICA!- this was all of the op's suggestions and more.

[cynatnite]

84. I'm astonished so many cares that he built a big house...

So what? It's his house. His business. Complain about his IWR vote, Patriot Act or what he said about Iran. That's what matters. Not his house, how big it is or even how much he paid for it.

[roguevalley]

87. i guess worrying about our environment is not as big a priority for

some as it is for me. I live in Alaska. its everywhere up here. This kind of thing is very bad in my mind and I don't care if he can afford it. Someone is going to be building a 255m$ house shortly. that also sucks. live where polar bears drown with their cubs in the water from lack of ice and maybe the environment and our effects upon it will register harder. i don't cut anyone slack when I feel they make mistakes. it doesn't mean I don't like edwards. I love him. I just think this sucks. Of course, someone just called me a freeper for thinking that having an opinion that doesn't agree with the current godhood some people give candidates is evil. too bad. dems fight over candidates and then help them into the white house. I guess having an opinion is out of style these days. but then, I'm old and remember better times.

The environment counts as much for me as the IWR -which he apologized for and i accept- and other things. I wish it counted as much for others. maybe when your rivers dry up and your forests burn down you will see what I see when i see houses like his. polar bears drowning. that is in my mind.

[cynatnite]

90. I understand your point...

Seems to me as far as the environment goes there are far more serious enemies such as Exxon, DuPont, Eastman Chemical and more who are doing far more damage than some million dollar homes.

Having an opinion is never out of style and I like reading yours :hug:

[roguevalley]

91. bless you, honey. i agree with you about opinions. that is why i

crave this place as an oasis of thinking in a desert of despair. we all contribute to environmental degradation, sometimes without knowing. Thank you for your reply. Hugs back to you too. :hug:

[Dorian Gray]

147. I agree...

He spent his own money on his own house. To me, it's not a big deal. But, sadly, it obviously is to many, if this site is any indication. And that doesn't bode well for his race.

[Retired AF Dem]

181. It's beeing called two faced

If a repug has a big house he is an asshole, if a repug drives an SUV he is an asshole. If a Democrat buys a big house or an SUV with their own money it's ok. Repugs also bought their big houses and SUV's with their own money. This is what bothers me about some folks on DU the most.

[mondo joe]

188. A large house does not an asshole make, regardless of party.

Thank you.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. Actually, I Don't Think Any Of Those Things. So How Much Were You Betting Anyway?

I'll PM you my paypal account so you can deposit the funds promptly.

[saltpoint]

4. Nope. I stand with John and Elizabeth Edwards.

Where they live is no one else's business.

Where you live is no one else's business.

You're instigating conflict where none need be.

[NanceGreggs]

12. Have I told you lately ...

... that I absolutely adore you?

[saltpoint]

16. Nance! By god it's a pleasure to run into you tonight on DU.

I hope you are thriving in this 7th year of darkness under Dubya. Certainly your writing is better than ever and your 'ever' is better than just about anybody's in the business.

A belated but very happy New Year to ya.

[NanceGreggs]

24. And a very happy New Year to you, as well!

Thanks for the compliment about my writing. But I sometimes wonder why I bother with so many words.

You just said everything that needed to be said about this entire business, in twenty-five words or less, and far more eloquently than I ever could have done!

[saltpoint]

28. Nonsense. I'm a Faulknerian at heart and I love not only what

you say but how you say it.

Joan Didion can be economic. That's her gig. She's tops at it.

I read you to get the broad canvas AND the specific detail. Keep on doin' it the way you're doin' it.

It DEFINITELY works.

[NanceGreggs]

41. Thank you so, so much ...

... your praise is a lofty place, and I aspire to its heights.

[saltpoint]

46. Nance, you're fighting the good fight. And it's a steep climb, always,

especially with thugs like Cheney and Gonzales et al in power.

We're a year away from those first votes in Iowa and Nevada and New Hampshire.

Think how very fine it will feel to cast a vote for a Democrat for the next administration.

I'm totally psyched up.

[NanceGreggs]

55. ME, TOO!!!

:toast:

[femrap]

39. You don't see the hypocrisy?

A man whose platform is poverty and the 2 Americas?

Wow. I am just flabbergasted.

I guess there are many DUers who buy into the 'Greed is Good' mantra of our Robber Baron culture. Just remember...something follows the Robber Barons.

Most of Robber Baron I's houses are now museums.

[saltpoint]

44. You've asked me this question downthread. I answered it.

[NanceGreggs]

63. Yeah, you're right.

Someone who has money, especially money he earned himself, shouldn't talk about poverty in America, or the plight of the working middle-class. He should spend his time championing the causes of those in his own income bracket.

It's like those people who always go on, and on, and on about people who are starving. I mean, if you talk about that stuff and you actually eat on a regular basis, you're just being a hypocrite.

[saltpoint]

64. -- --

:thumbsup:

[Hekate]

76. What you said, Nance

:toast: :hi:

Hekate

[madmunchie]

167. No, it just shows more of the 2 (or more) conflicted persona's of John Edwards

He is now sorry for his IWR - co sponsoring it and then voting for it,

AND he now is saying this: "Let me be clear: Under no circumstances can Iran be allowed to have nuclear weapons," Edwards said. "For years, the US hasn't done enough to deal with what I have seen as a threat from Iran. As my country stayed on the sidelines, these problems got worse."

Edwards continued, "To a large extent, the US abdicated its responsibility to the Europeans. This was a mistake. The Iranian president's statements such as his description of the Holocaust as a myth and his goals to wipe Israel off the map indicate that Iran is serious about its threats."

"Once Iran goes nuclear, other countries in the Middle East will go nuclear, making Israel's neighborhood much more volatile," Edwards said.

Edwards added, "Iran must know that the world won't back down. The recent UN resolution ordering Iran to halt the enrichment of uranium was not enough. We need meaningful political and economic sanctions. We have muddled along for far too long. To ensure that Iran never gets nuclear weapons, we need to keep ALL options on the table, Let me reiterate - ALL options must remain on the table."

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/1/24/133737/037



He talks about the 2 Americas, then he builds a house that is obviously in the America that he isn't seemingly trying to appeal to.

He writes a book about famous American Houses? (Brilliant piece of work for us to be proud of a possible POTUS being responsible for authoring) Is this possibly where he got the idea for his house?

What exactly did he champion for the poor and middle class folk while he was a Senator? Besides, co-sponsoring a massive increase in H-1b Visas.

He talks strongly, but doesn't take chances with his political career. It took him way too long to figure out the Iraq was a mistake. He seemed to wait until it was politically safe for him to do so. Now, he is basically taking the same stance with Iran, but I think that he has calculated wrong on this and will again have to apologize. He doesn't have the credentials to be POTUS nor does he have very good judgment.

I personally don't care where he lives. But, what I do care about is the fact that he is basically a one issue candidate. The issue being the have and the have nots, and the fact that he came from such a poor to middle class backround..."son of a millworker....blah blah blah, so this champion for the poor is now "involved" with building his 30,000 s.f. home. A bit of a disconnect from his rhetoric.

It all speaks to this guys insincerity, he is superficial as well.

[NanceGreggs]

169. Disagreeing with Edwards, or any other politician ...

... on the basis of issues is one thing. Calling him a hypocrite because he talks about poverty in America, even though he himself is not poor, is ridiculous. That was my only argument on this thread.

Edwards came from a working-class family, and went on to a successful career and the attendant financial rewards. He has never made a secret of his wealth - in fact, he has told the story of his origins and his later success a MILLION times. Had he claimed he was poor and that turned out to be untrue, that's hypocritical.

Based on the premise being asserted by many here, no one who has money should ever speak up for those who don't. Those who are well-fed should never speak up for those who go hungry. Those who can afford to send their children to expensive, private schools should never champion better public education.

Edwards has, quite rightly so, pointed out the fact that there are "Two Americas" - he never claimed that he didn't live on the "Have" side of that division.

By the way, I am NOT by any stretch an Edwards fan. But the size of his house, or his bank account, has nothing to do with anything.

[madmunchie]

172. Your right it doesn't, but I cannot help but feel yet another

disconnect when it comes to JE's rhetoric and his actions. Many of the candidates are wealthy, but they weren't one issue candidates with that issue being contrary to the lifestyle that is currently involved in building. It is just one more thing that adds to the list of things about this guy that don't jive.

[NanceGreggs]

174. I take your point.

And we are 'turned off' a particular candidate, we tend to look at things that validate that view.

As I said, I'm not an Edwards fan, but I still don't get the connection between his lifestyle and his stand on Two Americas. There ARE two Americas in terms of Haves and Have Nots - but you don't have to be on the Have Not side of life to understand that, or think it's wrong.

There are too many politicians who already have the "I've got mine, so why should I care about anyone else" attitude.

His personal lifestyle may be "contradictory" to being poor; but it is not contradictory to what he is saying about the gap between rich and poor Americans.

[femrap]

195. His platform for running for the Presidency is the

2 Americas...I believe this McMansion is in conflict with that. If you don't see that or don't want to see that...fine.

I'll look at this positively....maybe when the financial house of cards collapses, the Edwards' will have plenty of room for the poor to pitch their tents. Maybe they can offer job training at the recreational facility?

[NanceGreggs]

196. His platform is talking about the Two Americas ...

... he never said he didn't live in the America that has wealth.

Ted Kennedy has been a staunch supporter of improving public school education. He, and his children, all attended private schools. I guess he's just a hypocrite, trying to improve things for people who can't afford what he can, or what his family could.

If a candidate ran on the issue of feeding the hungry and housing the homeless of America, would he only be credible if he was starving and lived in a cardboard box?

God forfend there should be a presidential hopeful who champions those who DON'T have what he has -- what on earth is this country coming to?

I want more attention to be paid to NOLA, and what has happened to the victims of Katrina. I guess I should shut up about it -- after all, I've never lived there, and I've never lost my home to a hurricane.

I'll say it again: I am NOT a big Edwards fan. But he's never hidden his wealth -- he earned it, and he BRAGS about the fact that he did. If only the poor can champion the causes of the poor, we're in for a lot of hurt -- 'cause in case you haven't noticed, there aren't a lot of paupers who run for office these days. In fact, there are none.

[femrap]

200. Listen, this is the last I will discuss it....

I was simply very disappointed to see what I believe to be hypocrisy on the part of Edwards in building such a monstrous estate. At first, I thought it was a joke, seriously. I like the guy...but after the Bilderberg, then just last week his comments when in Israel about Iran...then this house.

It just struck me very hard....I felt conned. It's all just 'bread and circus.'

I would simply like to see this country have a president that is sincere. And, you know what....maybe that is simply no longer possible in this greedy, materialist culture where the almighty dollar is god.

And I'm rather surprised to find so many on DU who are of the materialist stripe. It's been eye-opening.

Good luck to you.

[NanceGreggs]

202. I have no problem with dissin' Edwards on the ISSUES ...

... such as Israel, Iran, etc.

I just don't get the "hypocrisy" or "insincere" accusation. He never presented himself as not being wealthy -- in fact, he's BRAGGED about his rags-to-riches life until it's coming out of my ears.

It's an unfortunate truth, but a truth nonetheless. We are never going to see a poor or middle-class American running for the presidency. They don't have the clout to raise the necessary funds to run a campaign, or the country-club connections to the corporate donors who need to be schmoozed, nor are they seen by average voters as someone who's got the savvy to cure the country's domestic ills and the know-how to deal on an international level.

That ain't right, that ain't just, that ain't fair -- that's just the way it is.

[femrap]

205. That doesn't mean I gotta like it....

Look at the changes made in Arizona and Maine regarding campaign finance reform.

And I don't begrudge Edwards making boatloads of money sticking it to the rich corporate guys....I love that. But it's like he is now one of them now...the ones he went after.

If Edwards hadn't made the '2 Americas' such an issue of his, I guess I wouldn't have thought much about his big house. But his big flourish over the poor, while at the same time constructing such a mcmansion...it just doesn't sit right with me. Couldn't the house have been a tad smaller? A bit less ostentatious? Just to appease those that think flashing a wad of bills in front of a hungry person is tacky?

At the least...it's tasteless. But after Jerry Springer, maybe there is no such thing.

You say 'that's the way it is....' If we all accept that, there will be no change. No improvement. No justice. No dreams. How defeatist. Are you really here on DU to say there is no use to try to change the status quo? If so, that's poisonous.

[NanceGreggs]

206. Never said there's no need, or desire, to change the staus quo ...

But in looking to the future, you can't pretend that the present isn't what it is. And you're doomed if you do.

Is Edwards' house ostentatious? Tasteless? Over-the-top? I think so; some do, some don't.

It's the argument that he's being hypocritical that has no merit. Had he presented himself as just a working class Joe, and then built this house, that would be another story. But he never has.

Look, I've got problems with this guy -- just like I've got problems with ALL of the potential candidates, because the only candidate I'm ever going to agree with 100 percent is ME (and I'm not running).

And just one more point, as unpopular as it may be: Everything is relative. I live in a teeny-tiny house, almost a hundred years old, with no closet space, questionable plumbing, and a roof that's leaked more often than Dick Cheney's office. That doesn't change the fact that to the homeless guys who are living in cardboard boxes a few miles away downtown, I'm living in a mansion.

Just sayin'...

The biggest problem I have with this whole house thing is this: There was a RW rag article published a week or so ago, that ended with the line (I'm paraphrasing, because I'm too damned lazy to look it up right now): "John Edwards talks about Two Americas. We now see which America he lives in."

I have seen the exact quote from that article quoted in more posts here than I want to count.

Let's focus on more important things than the size of someone's house -- because I believe there are WAY MORE IMPORTANT THINGS to talk about.

I also suspect that you and I agree more than we disagree on what's really important to all of us.

[fujiyama]

68. You keep speaking of robber barons

Whom is Edwards robbing in this case?

The money he acquired was not off the backs of the poor or disenfranchised. He did not exploit anyone (except corporations) to get where he is.

[saltpoint]

73. Correct. Further, he used his considerable skills to defend those

who could not otherwise have defended themselves, to give voice to disenfranchised victims of specific big corporations.

Edwards' money is clean money.

[SammyWinstonJack]

96. Well as long as he doesn't drive an SUV, specifically a Chevy Tahoe, it's all good.

:sarcasm: Some DUers, a lot actually, go absolutely bonkers over Hummers and Tahoes. :evilgrin: But Edwards building a Mc Mansion is just fine, because he earned his money and it's no ones business what kind of house he builds. I know what you mean about the hypocrisy. DU has it in spades sometimes.

[philosophie_en_rose]

121. John Edwards doesn't advocate for people to be poor.

He's not advocating that "greed is good." He is a living example of a man who came from a working class family to earn a good living and build a house for his family.

John Edwards advocates for people to have the same opportunities and privileges that helped him succeed. That does not require a vow of poverty.

By the way, his house is more environmentally friendly and efficient than many much smaller homes. If he really believed "greed is good," he would not have cared.

[SemperEadem]

131. so, by your estimation, Kennedy should have kept his mouth

shut the other day because the minimum wage has nothing to do with him... he shouldn't be insensed that the thugs won't vote on the bill without filibustering by delay and amendment.

It's not like Edwards didn't earn that money--and jeez! At least he IS recognizing the plight of those stuck in poverty. His record shows that he's a guy on the side of the less fortunate and those who've been taken advantage of by those motivated by greed. It's more than I can say for the other candidates who haven't said a friggin' thing about poverty in America.

[TomInTib]

15. Exactly, O C...

ain't nobody's business but their own...

All of this is part of the immaturity that just runs rampant thru DU.

This shit just makes me crazy.

I figure my house would get me on a jillion "ignore" lists, here.

But my house is where I live.

And so is Edwards'.

Damn, people...

Get a realistic kind of life.

We are all in it, together.

[saltpoint]

17. Tom! You golden Californian, you! Howdy!

Yep -- this house bullshit is flabbergasting. Give a man a choice between sticking his wiener in a pool filter and arguing about candidates' house sizes, I think many of us would take the pool filter option.

I accuse John and Elizabeth Edwards of loving their children. My guess is that they would love their children in a big house, a small house, or a medium-size house, and of this I think they would plead guilty.

Hope you're doing well out in the Golden State.

[TomInTib]

21. Back to that pool filter...

Is there anything special that I should know about this?

Should I build a pool?
Will it improve my sex life (the filter, and all of that)?

Or should I add a Music Studio?


I am doing well, thank you.

Tom

[saltpoint]

25. Good. I get awfully homesick for my Bay Area days. They weren't

that long ago, but two hours gone from that magical area and I'm lonesome.

The Muir Woods. That Thai restaurant at Irving and 9th. All of it.

I'm glad things are good your way, Tom.

[TomInTib]

31. Come on back home..

You can stay at our house.

There ain't a whole lot of it, but our view is the finest around.

And Beth can sure cook. And I mean really fine.

I am serious.

Tom

[saltpoint]

33. Tom, I'd love to slip out west and see you folks but I'm tethered to

a hundred projects.

I trust you to appreciate it and take care of it for me. I'll make an effort to travel next fall, but by then the Iowa caucus begins to kick in -- the planning and the door-knocking and the envelope-stuffing. You know the scene.

[femrap]

52. I love listening to the

entitled talk...especially about the help. What's her best dish?

Paella? Scampi?

[TomInTib]

58. You are kidding, right?

Beth is my Sweetheart.

Her best dish (and she is a World Class chef) happens to be anything that she is preparing at the moment.

And I love her and she loves me.

And I absolutely love everything that she does.

And it is just that simple in my life.

Yours?

[mentalsolstice]

150. And I love listening to the snarky...

Personal insults aimed below the belt get you nowhere my friend...

[saltpoint]

170. mentalsolstice, I'm off-subject here, but just wanted to say

that is a hell of a great picture of Al Gore in your signature field.

The best I've seen.

[Auntie Bush]

190. No, the pool filter will not improve your sex if you sit on the filter/drain.

[Hekate]

34. Hiya Tom. How many square feet do you suppose the "Kennedy compound" is/was?

What ails these folks? Are the Edwards's supposed to stay on in the log cabin? Are DUers just plain jealous of his success? -- which came about by doing good?

>Sigh<

Hekate

[TomInTib]

45. There ya go...

and how about the Kerry/Heinz abodes?

And the Gore digs?

Hell, I imagine that if the general DU crowd would/could see my place, I would be evenly demonized as well as Edwards.

Living space is all relative.

And I have slept many a night in cars.

[phylny]

154. I've never slept in a car, and we've never wanted for food or clothing

or a roof over our heads. My parents had just enough for us kids, but no extra. They managed to put the three of us through school, and when my husband and I were married, we didn't have anything but our jobs and a bit of furniure.

Through the years, we have worked hard and have been fortunate to always be employed. My husband works for a large, evil corporation that offers a 401K, stock plan, and a retirement plan complete with health insurance for the two of us. We've moved around a lot and have bought and sold our homes, making money on each one. We're looking to move this year to a house on a lovely lake. We give money, clothing, and furniture to the needy every year. We contribute financially to our local food bank.

Even though neither of us make remotely near minimum wage and haven't for 25 years, I support an increase, and wish it were higher.

I, too, would be demonized.

[femrap]

49. If we are all in this together, as you say....

why do you feel entitled to consuming more of the earth's resources than others? Because you have more green pieces of paper? More lines of credit? You think money makes you a better and more privleged person?

I swear...you sound just like my republican family members....worse, actually.

I don't care if you live in Tiburon...Mill Valley is my nearby home. But you have no conscience about over consuming? You're part of Greed is Good?

Wow...I thought folks here at DU were more evolved...more enlightened. Hell, just a tad more caring. Boy, was I wrong.

Thanks for the wake-up.

[TomInTib]

70. Uh,... what the hell are you talking about?

Consuming earth's resources?

Everything about my house is Green.

I could go into detail, but I choose not to waste my time.

I do not drive. Do you?

Just what in the hell are you talking about?

I do not drive a car.

Do you?

I grow my own produce.

Do you?

My family's wind-generated power generation more than offsets my own personal use.

Does yours?

Just asking.

[Hekate]

72. Oh for the love of...

John and Elizabeth Edwards are entitled to the fruits of their labors. Why begrudge them?

John and Elizabeth Edwards have been friends to progressive causes, and have worked hard for all of us. Where in their working lives have they behaved as though greed were god? (or as you put it, Greed is Good)

Why don't you write to them and suggest tankless water heaters and solar panels? Or do you think they should stick with wood stoves and pollute the atmosphere? I mean -- what do you actually know about their choices, or Tom's for that matter?

Why displace your anger at the Bush/Cheney cabal and aim it toward the Edwards's? They've done no one harm.

Breathe deeply. Get some rest.

Hekate

[SemperEadem]

136. and you know all about Tom's house how?

:popcorn:

[Turn CO Blue]

19. I'm standing with you standing with John and Elizabeth. n/t

[saltpoint]

23. -- -- --

:toast: :dem:

[femrap]

37. You don't see the hypocrisy?

What a candidate for the Presidency does is our business. And actions speak louder than words.

Where am I? Freeperville?

[saltpoint]

38. Just to say it again, some houses are bigger than others. I've seen

children loved in small homes and large ones, and it's the love given those children that matters, not the dimensions of the walls around them.

I accuse John and Elizabeth Edwards of loving four children well. Three survive and I wish them the continued love and affection of their exceptional parents.

That's what I see.

[donheld]

60. Just for you, the Edwards have agreed to move into a Van down by the River.

Happy?

Ok not you the previous complainer and friends.

[saltpoint]

62. not sure what's meant here.

But the van in the picture is totally kick-ass.

I could tell you about my early years some night, donheld. Over a tall pint of something.

[donheld]

65. OC that was meant for the previous post

I mixed up. I'll still sit down for a pint though. :toast:

[saltpoint]

71. Great. A pint it is, then. A cold one.

We'll swap tales and stories.

Glad to see you tonight on DU, donheld.

[phylny]

156. Matt Foley, is that you???

:hi:

[krispos42]

40. It becomes an issue

We take note of Bush's family vacation home in the "extra premium" section of Maine, and the massive ranch Bush clears brush on and falls off Segways at down in Texas.

This might become an issue. I don't think it should, but it might. Bush, Kennedy, and Kerry were born into money. Edwards wasn't and made that part of his persona.

It might look like he's lost the empathy he had. Even if he hasn't, that's what the righties will scream about.

I admit to drawing out a pretty-good-sized house on 640 acres of South Dakota prairie that included a hanger, a dirt airstrip, some hunting areas, and some natural untouched land to simply look at, but that was contigent on the Powerball jackpot. (There's no state income tax in SD :-) )

Besides, I'm not running for anything, my plans include building a small manufacturing company, and I'm not going to win the damn Powerball anyway!

[saltpoint]

48. Before voters would consider whether he would lead the nation well

they might first and best consider whether he and Elizabeth loved their own children well.

The accomplished love and protection of children is everywhere evident in John and Elizabeth Edwards. For anyone to impugn them for their house size is utter bullshit as far as I'm concerned.

It is a form of trespass.

[femrap]

56. Then maybe they shouldn't be in the public light...

and maybe not preach about the Two Americas that have developed. You like candidates that visit Bilderberg?

Why is it that Americans will defend until the death their aristocracy? Do they think that someday they, too, will have a 28,000 sq. ft. house? As if that is something to be proud of...another McMansion in America. Whopfuckingwee.

Have you seen those bumper stickers...'Eat the Rich?' Robber Barons beware!

[saltpoint]

59. Public servants are by definition servants of the public.

The light cast upon them comes from more than one source.

You seem to have a bitterness toward the Edwards family.

I don't know its source and don't care.

The size of a candidate's home, especially in the case of the Edwardses, is not likely to dissuade supporters from John's candidacy.

Not one iota.

[femrap]

194. We'll see about that...

I spoke to some working people about this new 'house' today....and they were rather surprised. They didn't think he'd be so 'flashy' with his money considering his stance on the '2 Americas.'

[roguevalley]

67. i don't understand how this can look like okay to you. if he were

running on anything else, maybe. i have taught kids who lived in cars. i can never forget their poignant stories on wanting a house. their houses were not 30k. this would be a 'form of trespass' i guess if they were private citizens. but they aren't. they want to lead us. this is part of them and it looks as bad as it is.

[saltpoint]

77. We disagree. To me it's a form of trespass to go peeking into people's

homes, or to judge them by its dimensions.

I see no grievous complaint against the Edwards family based on the size of their house.

The OP has been harping on this all night.

Were he taking measurements of my house, modest though it be, I would call the damn cops on him.

[roguevalley]

78. I love john edwards. I just got called a freeper for having a problem

with this. SIGH! Agree to disagree is most agreeable to me. :)

[saltpoint]

80. roguevalley, I have enjoyed your posts on DU. Also that doggie in

your picture is a winner.

I'm not a dog expert but I am a dog lover. And I just KNOW that is a good dog.

[roguevalley]

81. thank you, darling. my dog tippy thanks you too.

:hug:

[saltpoint]

83. Tippy. Well-chosen name. I presume Tippy is a Democrat.

:thumbsup: :dem: :hi:

[roguevalley]

85. he's born dem, lived dem and will ever be dem. what else can a

weiner dog be? ;)

[saltpoint]

86. Then you raised him right.

The best dogs are . . . uh . . . blue collar Democrats.

[krispos42]

75. Of course. I'm not saying they don't.

The question is "is this pretentious?".

I certainly don't care about his house size. If he wants to buy a six million dollar estate in the middle of a housing slump, that's his business. But it makes me shake my head and sigh.

I lived in Fairfield, CT for several years as a teen. There were an awful lot of well-off professionals who bought large houses in wooded areas for large amounts of money. They drove late-model SUVs and imported luxury sedans, had expensive furnishings, skied and golfed and went on expensive vacations, sent their kids to all sorts of educational camps, had expensive hobbies, ate expensive food, etc.

Not all of them are like that. The eastern and southeastern part of town is more middle-class and has a higher population density. My parents live in that section, and it is approprate for their income.

I wasn't a big fan of those types of people. Maybe it was just me, but I never felt as comfortable as I wanted to among them. Probably just my own feelings of inadequecy.

But the feeling was there.

It's not my lifestyle. I'm not comfortable in that setting. I'd be a lot more comfortable with, say, John Tester than John Edwards.

But the issue is (or should be) this person's ability to run the country effectively.

One of Bush's alleged appeals was that 'you could have a beer with him'. People didn't ask "If Bush was a brain surgeon, would you want him operating on your kid?" THAT is the standard for running a country, not sucking down a MGD! And damn the people who didn't ask themselves that question!

If you ask that about Kerry, Edwards, Obama, or Clinton, you get a warm and fuzzy feeling. Tester, too. Bush, eh, not so much.

The size of Edwards' house only matters if it points to some sort of possibly unhealthy obsession with aquiring wealth and power for the sake of show. Pretensiousness.

I don't know if it does with Edwards. I don't think so, but I have not studied him closely. You seem to have, and you seem intelligent and informed, so I'll accept your informed opinion on the matter and leave it at that.

I KNOW that the Bush Administration has that obsession, damn them!

[saltpoint]

79. A very good post, krispos42. Thank you for that. And thanks

especially for framing the complaint I have against George W. Bush.

Edwards' beginnings were humble but through genuine hard work he made his way into a skilled profession and then became wealthy on the record of his success as a trial lawyer.

George W. Bush has created a fake personna on money he never earned.

That distinction screams at me every time Bush speaks on the news or is quoted in a newspaper.

It positively screams at me.

I love our Democratic line-up a million times better than the GOP line-up for 08.

I like our chances.

[SemperEadem]

139. then the righties are screaming over a strawman

the thing is: do we know if some of the space will be used for his office and staff? Do any of us know whether or not he will be working more out of his home rather than driving into town to an office there? Will he also be housing some of his staff there? Will he be using his space for stragey meetings? Has he made any statements about the long term uses of the home/complex?

[krispos42]

177. Almost certainly they are

And we're helping them by discussing it. We make a few snide comments about Bush's estates, pretty much ignore the Kerry and Kennedy estates, then throw a fit when Edwards buys one.

But if the strawman works, it is effective. And so far it is working, both as a distraction and a wedge.

[philosophie_en_rose]

118. Exactly. Why "instigat[e] conflict where none need be"?

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. ;)

[saltpoint]

144. Perhaps I should subscribe to yours, philosophie_en_rose. A person

who quotes E.B. White in her profile compels respectful attention.

Love the quote, and say thank you for your affirmation.

All good wishes.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

153. So right on. Bravo.

If you want to poke at someone then you allow yourself to poked at.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

5. How much did Hillary contribute...?

:hide: :rofl:

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. How about when a guy like that leads an appeal for the poor, where

he wants you to donate money or time to a cause?

[mondo joe]

7. You're still fulll of crap.

Thanks!

[Erika]

8. Evidently you want the Dems to eat their own

Proceed knowing you are hurting the cause as well as being an insensitive ass. Carry on. The GOP will love you.

[roguevalley]

74. someone once defined dems and pubs this way: the dems pick

their candidate through argument and inspection. the pugs pick theirs by letting the next person who is in line run for president. talking and arguing and discussing and inspecting doesn't 'hurt the cause' unless you figure the 'cause' is turning a blind eye on what a candidate does and is. Edwards is public property the moment he steps up. the gop can go fuck themselves. they don't do this and look at what they get. we can argue, winnow, discuss and inspect until hell freezes over. that is what a dem is. anyone who says otherwise hasn't got a clue about what dems are. then maybe i remember a different kind of dem from another time. I'm old. I remember democracy.

[ClassWarrior]

9. I see you're passing along the deceptive 30,000 square foot meme.

It adds so much credibility to your arguement.

:eyes:

NGU.

[XemaSab]

11. How is it deceptive?

"The recreation building contains a basketball court, a squash court, two stages, a bedroom, kitchen, bathrooms, swimming pool, a four-story tower, and a room designated "John's Lounge.""

How is that not part of his house? :shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

13. Link?

NGU.

[XemaSab]

32. Here you go

http://www.carolinajournal.com/

[ClassWarrior]

36. So show me where it says 30,000 anything.

NGU.

[XemaSab]

42. Here:

Knight approved the building plans that showed the Edwards home totaling 28,200 square feet of connected space.

What's 1,800 square feet, more or less? :shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

47. But 30,000 sounds soooo much more damning, doesn't it?

Actually, any reasonable individual who bothers to read the article will realize that even 28,200 is an inflated number. But why let facts get in the way of a good smear, right?

NGU.

[XemaSab]

50. I've read the article a couple times

and how is it an inflated number? :shrug:

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[XemaSab]

54. Do what now?

I'm sorry, you've totally lost me.

[nam78_two]

14. Deceptive? Why?NT

[ClassWarrior]

22. I'm not doing your research for you.

If you truly have an open mind, find the article and read it.

NGU.

[cynatnite]

26. nevermind n/t

[saltpoint]

10. Your subject line is a pretty good description of Vice President Cheney.

Uncle Dick was short with Wolf Blitzer, but Mr. Fitzgerald may make Uncle Dick crabbier still.

I'm kind of zeroing in on this Scooter Libby trial. Things are gittin' interesting.

[Codeblue]

18. No actually

I'd kinda like a recreation area on my property where I could play all sorts of things listed below on another post. The house, eh. The house itself is just shy of 11,000 sq. ft. Plenty of people have houses that big. No worries.

[RiverStone]

20. I get it.

Buildings - both commercial and residential - represent a larger source of global warming pollution than cars and trucks.

...as said by Al Gore last year. He gets it too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x50954


Keep the faith :)

[RoyGBiv]

29. And cows are a bigger problem than either ...

So let's just tangent this sucker off into something that'll really create a flame fest.

[Straight Shooter]

27. Well, here's the house, the barn, the land, for what it's worth. No pun intended.

[XemaSab]

51. It's not a barn

It's not an agricultural structure at all. It's the "recreation building" with bedrooms, a kitchen, theaters, a pool, and John's den.

[knitter4democracy]

102. Pretty. I wish we'd had a covered walkway to our barn.

That would've been nice growing up.

Nice house.

[Truthiness Inspector]

30. As long as we don't have double-standards n/t

[Lost-in-FL]

35. WHINE!!! WHINE!!!

ok... now lets move on.

[Zookeeper]

43. One would assume that the Edwards do a fair amount...

of entertaining. Do you think they should send their guests to the nearest motel?

They may be hosting all kinds of political functions in a home like that.

[Marr]

57. And... what? We should support Hillary instead? Obama? Who

are ya selling?

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

69. This thread and others like it are a load of B.S.

All it is is an UGLY rethuglican meme and just the start of the b.s. that's gonna be flung by the down and dirty rotten rethuglicans. This thread belongs in freeperville and so does anyone who agrees with it. :puke:

[Erika]

89. Yep

Freeperville material it is. They must be so frustrated by their incompetent and inept president that they are moving over here. Poor babies. They should have thought about that before they voted for the sob twice.

[Puglover]

105. I think it's as simple as a few of them forgot

to take their meds.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

82. I really enjoy air conditioning.

I grew up in an un airconditioned house in Houston. It was horrible. You cannot sleep in the summertime, because there are about five or six months in Houston where it's too hot to sleep at night, without air conditioning, and the low at night is 80 and the humidity is awful. Even Dallas is pretty bad as far as humidity. Do any of you DU'ers want to trade places with me on that one? The heat kills people every year, not only in Texas, but in places like Chicago and Europe.

I studied hard, went to college, went to graduate school, got a law degree, but not a law license, and I can't even find a job. Where is my American Dream? I have the same education he does (more actually, I have three degrees, it only takes a bachelor's to get into law school) but no bar card.

I don't begrudge John Edwards his money, or even the fact that he's a plaintiff's lawyer. Somebody has to represent people that are hurt. If a jury does not award a seriously injured person money from the person responsible's insurance company, the plaintiff becomes a burden on the taxpayers. I've seen this happen to totally paralysed people in court. Just because you file suit doesn't mean that you will get anything; it doesn't mean you deserve anything either.

Why in the hell did I waste 12 years in college anyway? Where is my American Dream?

So does that mean that because of the environmental impact, everybody in Texas will have to move out because of the heat and humidity???

[pnwmom]

88. He earned his money. He pays his taxes. And he's sticking up for people

who work hard themselves.

I don't think they'll hold his success against him.

[HuffleClaw]

92. this is SUCH a non-issue it is hilarious

if he wants to build a replica of versailles, let him. good god, there are far more important issues than this. letting yourself fall prey to a poorly planned and essentially empty republican smear is downright silly.

[Raine]

93. Oh come on

it's the American way to build a house as big as you can regardless of whether you can afford it or not. Why should Edwards not be able to have a big ole McMansion like every other American is entitled to. :sarcasm:

Seriously it does seem to be the new way of doing things in this country. I think those McMansions (where I live there are plenty of them) are hideous, tacky and tasteless but that's just my opinion and no one is going to listen to me.

[Leopolds Ghost]

94. How many people who are defending Edwards now defended Kerry when he was attacked

for being "out of touch?"

The crucial thing is Kerry never pretended to be anything he's not.

[saltpoint]

95. Long-time Kerry fan here. Long-time Democrat.

I'm for replacing the Bush administration with some adult Democrats.

Slamming Democrats for where they live? We don't have time. We're a year out from the first votes in the caucuses and primaries. Let's work on 2008 -- city, town, county, state, and national elections.

And the more Democrats and the fewer Republicans, the better.

[Zookeeper]

159. Exactly.

A little pragmatism is in order here. It's time to win back the Presidency.

[saltpoint]

161. -- -- --

:dem: :thumbsup:

[Bluerthanblue]

103. ding-ding-ding!! it is a question of

walking the talk in my less than objective opinion.

If John Edwards wants to claim a humbleness- a sincere connection with "the little people"- he honestly should display it in his life choices shouldn't he??

For me, it is a question of ..."authenticity". If you claim to be something, your life should mirror that claim- otherwise it is talk- and talk- (unlike most everything else in life)- is often CHEAP.


(I wouldn't necessarily not vote for Edwards because of this- but I have lost some ...respect?... connection?.... common ground... with him, and his potential as the BEST candidate for President)

[mondo joe]

106. Tell me, do you feel some connnection with the people of Darfur?

With impoverished 3rd world people?

[Bluerthanblue]

115. yes I do- not only that but

I feel connection with the citizenry of Iraq-
and the people of Israel who don't support the violence done in 'their name'-
and the 'illegal' immigrants-
and the deluded 'christians' who think they are living 'righteously'-
and the Afghan people who are victims of power struggles and manipulation-
and the forgotten, forsaken family that is and was NOLA-
and the people who sleep without food or shelter right here in NH-
and the people who suffer and die right under our noses- while we have 'bottomless pockets' for death and destruction- for killing and "safety" for war and weaponry....

I could go on and on and on....

I'll turn this back on you Mondo Joe-

Don't YOU?

[mondo joe]

120. How can you feel a connection with them?

Do you share the specific conditions of their lives?

Do you live in a war zone?

How many nights of the year do you go to bed hungry because you have no food?

Did you have everything washed away in a flood?

Do you live like royalty, compared to 3rd world kids?

How can you feel a connection to them?

[Bluerthanblue]

146. the same way

that Martin Luther King jr. not only FELT- but celebrated the connection between his life as a black man living in an oppressive culture- and the white man who was activly oppressing him, and who ultimately took his life.

I'm not going to lay my life bare, or pull out all the reasons and ways that I am able to connect with those who suffer, are rejected, neglected and abused by others more powerful, more affluent, than me- that isn't the issue.

To quote those who speak much better than I-

"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

-Einstein

and Dr. King:

“Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.......
.....So, the Negro can now unconsciously cry out with the eloquent poet:

Fleecy locks and black complexion

Cannot forfeit nature’s claim.

Skin may differ, but affection

Dwells in black and white the same.

Were I so tall as to reach the pole

Or to grasp at the ocean at a span,

I must be measured by my soul

The mind is the standard of the man. ........"

[mondo joe]

173. So what makes you think Edwards can't connect with ordinary Americans?

[seabeyond]

107. the first thing ths post made me think of, is why i am not supporting

edwards. character. i watched and listened to both he and his wife make little jabs at kerry in such a high school way. not having the balls to come out and say it in honesty yet respect with how they thought kerry ran the campaign, but little insinuated jabs at kerry. not appreciation or value, which is fine if they didnt have that, their right. but at least be honest and straight instead of what i saw.

that told me something about the edwards character.

this house is another example.

i am not one to care about people having money. i dont say people dont deserve it or tell them how to spend it. (i personally dont get the house with the long line of "little houses" going to the red thing.) i think it looks horrible, but they can do what they want with their money. but... i think this is one of those things that show a persons character

and that is what i liked about kerry. i thought not his words, but the signs to kerry showed a strong, honest, good character. i dont see the same with the edwards

on edit: this is the one and only post i have made on this whole house to do. that is how big it is on my scale of importance

[Neshanic]

97. It's not the house/complex/resort/estate. It's the scale.

Not being a big fan if any of our candidates, except for Clark, and Gore now, this temple to a Southern wasp candidate in a long line of white Southern wasps is just beyond the pale in it's over the top scale. Forgetting his shovel thing in New Oleans, and his latest "Iran is a threat" parroting, his standard "I voted for the war, but not this..yadda, yadda, yadda, and gay rights to the states issue buck passing, this foray in to McMansionism gone wild should really raise some red flags with some people.

The tokenism bulb changing, and the recycling bin, or many bins I must think for a complex of such a scale just does not cut it, considering his doe eyed pleas about poverty, and the state of the poor in this country. So his house is "Gold Star energy rated", well surptise, but many homes built now in Phoenix for 200 grand have that distinction.

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it's just so out of step and ill advised. I am sure his architect could of come up with something that is not a yuppie wet dream.

[Spider Jerusalem]

122. So...

just wondering: what, exactly, is wrong with Southern white, male Anglo-Saxon Protestants? What is Al Gore if not another in "a long line of Southern WASPs"?

[Nikia]

98. Maybe, his home will be more of a public place than the average family home

When we were living in a 1000 square foot duplex, there is no way that our home could be a public place. The living room was sort of a public space, but no more than five people could be seated there and if they had long legs, their knees might even hit the coffee table. We had no dining room. We managed to fit our table in the kitchen, taking the leaf out, but it wasn't really practical to eat there since if you pulled your chair out too far, you would hit the wall or the counter on three of the four sides. We usually ate at our desks and having people over to eat was out of the question. Our computer room occupied one of the two bedrooms. We couldn't really have people over unless they were willing to sleep on the couch. I am not saying that living there was a true hardship. It just wasn't big enough to be a public space.
Our home now is bigger, above average by the DU poll. We can have people over to dinner. We even have a guest bedroom. Still, it would be hard to have more than a couple dozen people over for even a drinks and snacks party, more than another family for dinner, or have more than a family stay the night.
I am assuming that Mr. and Mrs. Edwards will be having people over frequently, maybe many on a regular basis. It just isn't his family that uses the space.
Do you complain if companies or community organizations build large buildings?

[Neshanic]

99. At that scale, the home is a destination resort. Do buildings convey what the owner is about?

Do they?

[Nikia]

116. We don't know the scale at which it will be a public space

My college alma mater owns a resort that is around 20,000 square feet for use for alumni functions, campus organization functions, academic functions, and business functions. I have heard no one personally describe that building as excessive and no one even lives there. The main care taker lives in a separate home that is probably 1500-2000 square feet and the rest of the staff live elsewhere.

[knitter4democracy]

100. I think Elizabeth should get whatever she wants, frankly.

If she wanted that house, and I'd bet she did, then I'm fine with it. She beat cancer, she's lived through the grief of losing a child, and she's made many sacrifices for her family. If she wants that house, then bully for her. She can have the house.

[Seen the light]

101. Name one major Democratic candidate with a small house nt

[Neshanic]

104. Name one Dem Candidate that built a house like that while

putting on the New Oleans Show, while the house was being designed and built.

Clinton lives in a big house; an old house but big.

Since it is a new house, more sensitivity to the environment should of been shown. If it was LEED certified, then I will shut up.

[Pathwalker]

108. I agree. Your "concern" is Excessive, Obscene and Insulting.

n/t

[Neshanic]

109. So if you had land like that, you would not blink an eye cutting down that many trees?

[Pathwalker]

111. I have an acre and the only trees on it were planted

by my family! And who says they can't plant others? Anywhere there is farm land in this nation, trees were felled to create that field. If it bothers you so much, don't eat.

If it bothers you that much, you could protest at the woods across the street from my house - they're clearing the 90 acres of wood to install...a gravel pit. We tried protesting -ha! The town council LAUGHED at us! The deer are now living in everyone's yards, eating the trees we HAVE. Then, there's the skunks, racoons, foxes, hawks, mice, rats, etc......

[Neshanic]

113. Well there you have it. Looks like the Edwards manse cleared more than 15...

It's about being envoronmentally sensitive. This home is not.

Good for you protesting the gravel pit!

[Pathwalker]

119. It did no good whatsoever to protest. EVERY homeowner

around this 90 acres of woods plus 59 acres of land protested. The town council LAUGHED. And approved the gravel pit. It will destroy two historic homes over 150 years old - they don't care. There's a home behind me, deep in another woods, bigger than the Edward's home, and it took them a year of clear-cutting to make room for that house. You can't even see it. It beats a gravel pit.

[Neshanic]

124. Then you would see the paradox of the Edwardses having no

issues with taking down trees, and installing acres of grass without public comment as rather sad.

You tried and fought.

They just had plans submitted to the county and approved it would seem.

[Lurking Dem]

123. And the land has yet to be landscaped.

I had to clear trees from my land and others died during building. But many were elderly maples that had been overcrowded so were thin and spindly and a danger during storms, cypress - also rather spindly but tall, and trash trees like mimosas.

I have planted sycamores, ashes, maples, dogwoods, a gorgeous deciduous redwood, a bald cypress, about 18 magnolia trees and nearly that many pines. I added clump and single trunk river birch, 3 weeping willows, 2 Chinese pistachio, a number of hawthorns, and 3 gingko. I recently added tulip poplars and Japanese cypress to the fence line.

All in all I have added about $30,000 worth of trees to my property.

Give him a chance.

[Neshanic]

127. What was on that land minus the house and some clear area for lawn

that would be considered reasonable by any rational standard, now requires thousands of gallons of irrigation. This when none was needed. Not to metion the destroyed trees.

[Nikia]

134. The house is in NC, I doubt that much if any irrigation is needed

We aren't talking about Arizona.
Yes, sometimes people in such climates do water their vegetation to make it greener, but it isn't a area where rainfall is severely lacking.

[KoKo]

138. NC had severe drought last year. Water restrictions because

the resevoir's were down so much. Lots of overbuilding is taking a toll on our lake system that we depend on for water. Many people in upscale developments have built in irrigation for their landscaping.

[Pathwalker]

133. You have Tulip trees? I so want a few of them.

You have planted a very lovely and diverse group of trees, something that is very good for your property and it's ecosystem. Woods that are entirely one genus can be easily devestated by a single species of borers, disease, etc, and then all that is left is a DEAD woods that will sustain nothing.
Alas, here is Michigan, we are advised against planting any birches or ash trees as the borers are destroying these trees by the MILLIONS. This appears to a a result of global warming, giving the borers a longer season to eat the trees. :cry:

Your place sounds lovely.

[Lurking Dem]

140. Thank you.

My pride and joy right now is my moonlight garden. I have lupus and cannot be in the sun but I have this white garden that looks so pretty at night.

We had pine beetle issue a few years ago and they had to go into the state parks and cut down hundreds of pines. But by doing that they managed to save thousands. I was afraid of losing mine but they did fine.

[Pathwalker]

143. Truly exquisite. A moonlight garden is such a

wonderful spectacle at night - I tried one a few years ago, but, ah well...not all seeds are as advertised. I ended up with a bright orange garden - lol!
The problem in Michigan is now so severe that it is now illegal to move firewood from one county to the next, and crews are going through every neighborhood and cutting down ALL the ash tress if there's any sign of infestation. Many homeowners cry during the process, and who can blame them?

Your place is very beautiful, so glad you have a nice shady spot!
:hi:

[Nikia]

137. I agree

He may plant more trees and other vegetation aside from just grass on the land not taken up by house. Our home is on a large city lot and has enough tree cover to be considered forest. We found an oak sapling growing through our bushes and have considered replanting it but are unsure if there is an area where it will not be shaded out by the bigger trees or crowded when it grows larger. Why do you assume that all that space will be grass?

[Straight Shooter]

130. Easy way to repel deer, and it's environmentally safe.

Take an egg, crack it into a gallon jug, pour about a cup of water in it. Close the lid. Shake vigorously to mix the egg completely. Then open the lid, pour in more water until the jug is just about full. Close lid, shake again to mix thoroughly.

Go outside, open the lid, and shake some of the contents of the jug onto each tree or landscape ornament in your yard that you don't want the deer to nibble on, especially the bark. The deer can't stand the smell of sulphur, but your nose won't detect it because it's so diluted.

Do this procedure every 3 weeks, maybe once a month, and of course after a major rainstorm. Your deer problem should go away. I've done this for years in my yard. After the deer ate all the newly-bloomed roses and killed my aspen, I went online and found this cheap but effective method.

I never noticed additional pests in my yard from the egg solution, so I think it's the best thing all around. Much cheaper than advertised products.

I've also heard that if you hang human hair on things, they won't come near it. I didn't try that and can't vouch for it. Same goes with hanging a bar of soap. I like the egg solution because no one can tell it's there but the deer.

[Pathwalker]

135. I have tried ALL of these, and yet the deer treat my yard

like their favorite restaurant. Just to be clear - we are talking about a HERD of deer. At least FIFTY of them. They ate my neighbor's apple trees, 30+ years old down to the main branches - they're dead now.
But the town council won't give anyone permission to cull the herd, either. The main buck is a 16 pointer. It's one thing to fool a few deer - but FIFTY?

[Straight Shooter]

165. Wow. Sorry about that. I haven't a clue what to do, there.

The herds that wander around in my neighborhood are rarely more than 12 or 15.

Deer fences (8 feet high) tend to be really unattractive, and even though they're wire mesh from the 6th foot to the 8th foot, are often illegal in the city. So I guess that option is out for you, too.

I always laugh when I read real estate listings in rural areas which say, "See wildlife feeding in your own back yard." If they only knew. :D

[Pathwalker]

168. I'm planting a double layer barrier.

The first layer is spruce trees - evergreen and the deer won't eat them, or pass through them - supposedly. The second layer will be a variety of large, deciduous shrubs, planted as an inner row. We are doing this over time, as there's no way we could ever afford to fence the entire back yard - fences aren't allowed in the front yards, here.
Planting trees and shrubs will also provide winter cover and food for the birds, as well as seasonal color. This plan was suggested by my state Master Gardener co-ordinator - it's called green fencing.
It'll take years, but it will eventually work, and will mean less grass to mow. :-)

[Lurking Dem]

175. Choose your shrubs with care.

I laugh when folks here plant golden euonymus. The deer consider it an all you can eat salad bar.

[Pathwalker]

176. I'm looking for only those shrubs that deer are known

to detest, buying a few and propagating the rest. So far, they haven't even noticed the forsythias and the lilacs. Plus, I ring all my gardens with daffodils, so they leave them alone - until they die off. But they'll climb onto my rock walled, pea-stone path to chomp my Japanese Maple. Grrr!
They love tulips, too. It's been a live and learn process.

[Lurking Dem]

182. They haven't gotten my Japanese maple!

Maybe it is too close to the door for their comfort? I have white azaleas planted around it. Have you tried hollies as barrier plants?

My tulips were protected by a fence. From the deer. So the moles ate all 80 of them. *growl*

They left the hyacinths and double blooming iris alone though. Now I have solar powered mole deterrent. Or, at least, that is the claim! I'm not about to replant tulips to test the theory!

The 2 nesting pairs of golden eagles seems to have taken care of most of the rodent type nibblers. I still get the occasional bunny but not nearly as many as I used to.

[Pathwalker]

183. I don't know if I can grow hollies here -

I'll have to check that out. Thanks for the tip. I have three large neutered male cats who keep my and all the neighbor's garden rodent free. One has even caught two moles! Don't bother with the chewing gum or planting Castor plants for the sake of deterring moles - I had one that kept his holes right next to them. Awesome plant, though. Good luck with your mole problem - I can't stand them - yuck!
Bunnies are another story. The next door neighbor decided to free all his pet rabbits when he moved out - so they're everywhere. Two of my cats run for the house when they see them, but one goes after them. At least the hawks are happy - and full. Golden Eagles, huh? now, that would be a sight to see - wow!

[Straight Shooter]

184. It sounds like you have a beautiful landscaping plan worked out.

It does take years, but there's a lot of joy in watching things grow, after you've planted and cared for them personally.

I especially love my trees now that they're a few years old because they attract so many birds. Now if I could just find a way to get the grass to stop growing so fast.

:hi:

[phylny]

160. My entire property is wooded, and trees were cut down to build this house.

Not a big deal, since it's so heavily wooded here, and since it's enabled trees that were once in the midst of the woods to flourish now that they're on the edge. It's not like we clear cut it for farming or a strip mall.

[otohara]

110. Agree

it's just wrong to use that much land, energy and resources for a family of 4.

[JNelson6563]

112. Whine, whine, whine

How many threads you going ot start so you can whine about Edwards' house? How long with the DU admins indulge this whine-fest?

Inquiring minds want answers to these and other burning questions.

Well, not really.

Julie

[Neshanic]

117. Don't make up the facts. Just look at the pic. There may be other burning topics

that you may enjoy. I am personally sorry that I am not defending cutting hundreds of trees for what is a single family residence.

[philosophie_en_rose]

114. Are you insane?

I don't think that it is out of line with his rhetoric for a person to come from nothing and then ultimately make enough to build a large home.

[mondo joe]

125. You're talking to the Puritan wing of the party. They capture the relentless piety

and depressive tone that that has lost us far too many elections.

[Neshanic]

128. Now environmentalism is a Puritan value. Can't write comedy like that.

[mondo joe]

129. No - the Puritan Value is in being a scold about others personal choices.

The American electorate still believes in the American Dream and opportunity to succeed.

[Neshanic]

132. And cut down as many trees as you want. Then give a policy speech

about the environment later down the road.

No wonder the Repugs have a field day.

They are just out in the open blatant.

[Zookeeper]

164. Any of us could be attacked for some of our personal...

choices. You live in Arizona? Boy, that's irresponsible, living in a desert where rivers have to be dammed just so people can live somewhere warm and water their lawns. I hope you don't consider yourself an environmentalist.

('Just trying to make a point.)

[Pathwalker]

179. You realize trees are a renewable resource, don't you?

You can always plant more and more and more. It's not like they are polar bears, or penguins, or the other great mammals that are in danger of extinction.

[krabigirl]

126. This move?? He's just building a house...I don't see the big deal.

He didn't come from wealth. He earned his money, and deserves it.

[barb162]

141. I agree. This is a non-issue, at least for me. John Conyers

lives in what? A tent? Ted Kennedy lives in what? How about John Kerry? Thnere's a few mansions there and I voted for him. Are we supposed to check everyone's housing square footage to see if they are okay or not? Should we also check everyone's car sizes to see if they are driving the most economical, low gas mile cars? Sometimes this crap goes too far.

[Quixote1818]

142. It bugs me a tad but I don't think it will effect his campaign at all. nt

[Generator]

145. Vote for Hillary then!

She's for the little people. How big is the White House anyway? AND WHO paid for her living there? She already lived there eight years. Taxpayers expense. (oh yeah, baby two can play at this game)

[RetroLounge]

148. Are you STILL going on about this shit?

Sheesh... :eyes:

Sounds like you have a bad case of sour grapes...

RL

[JVS]

149. Typical of our ruling class.

[skygazer]

151. Oh, bullshit!

Is John Edwards the first politician to live in a large house? You act like every other Presidential candidate has lived in a log cabin. I have NEVER, EVER seen this much fuss about a candidate's home - not the ranch in Crawford, not the compound in Kennebunkport, not the Kennedy place in Massachusetts, not Kerry's place, or Cheney's place, or Pelosi's place or anybody else's place.

In fact, I haven't seen this much fuss about a candidate's home since Lincoln was lauded for being born in a log cabin.

Enough is enough. This is the most petty, ridiculous argument against a candidate I ever saw. :nuke:

[phylny]

152. I don't think those words apply to THAT house at all.

He can do what he wants with his money. Honestly. He didn't kill anyone to earn his money, right?

Long story short, doesn't bother me one bit.

[mentalsolstice]

155. I know exactly why he's building this house...and for good reason!

His old digs were inappropriate, so he needed something else...being the confident guy he is, he realized that if he built now, he also needed to plan ahead...this is going to be his weekend White House, and it is sized appropriately for the Secret Service, Cabinet, aides and whoever else will be in attendance.

Let's reserve our criticism until we can post pictures of other candidate's homes.

[Straight Shooter]

166. I admire your positive attitude.

All that cleared, bare land is for helicopter landings. :)

[Raydawg1234]

157. This house thing is just like a RW smear job. you are doing Karl Rove's work for him

this is from the Edwards house article page

<snip>
Due to the extraordinary traffic generated by the link from the Drudge Report website, the main carolinajournal.com website is temporarily unavailable. The main carolinajournal.com will be available again once traffic levels return to normal.
<snip>
http://carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=3848

Unbelievable how easily you people are lead.

[3121guitarist]

158. Yea, that is excessive.

But he still has good ideas. You should see Hillary's house..lol

[DiverDave]

178. Sick, Sick , SICK!

who gives a rats ASS!!

The repukes sit back and laugh at you when you further their agenda!

Keep your eye on the BALL...christ on a crutch...

[RB TexLa]

180. I don't agree with any of that

[treestar]

185. How many square feet are allowed for that size family

and is there any candidate whose house is the proper size?

[aikoaiko]

186. You would lose that bet --- how much do you have?

[meow mix]

187. display of consumptionism vs environment

i guess he needs all that mcmansion?? what up with du-ers going to the darkside all of a sudden LOL wierd

[mondo joe]

189. Are people only permitted the minimum that they need now?

Can I see your expenses so I can tell you which you can curb?

[WHAT]

191. SPAM

ignore

[bigwillq]

192. I don't give a flying fuck

what kind of house he lives in or doesn't live in.

I only care about what he can do for this country.

I will vote on what he has to say on the issues and not base my vote on what kind of house he lives in or what kind of car he drives or what kinds of foods he eats....it's not my business.

[MzNov]

193. Great house. Great Candidate. Great Family.

and the ONLY point is: John Edwards did not build his dream house with bribes, lobbyist influence, theft, or abuse of his fellow humans.

Also, his house isn't 30,000 sq. ft. That's the total of the house, barn, and the other parts of the estate.

SO WHAT !!!!! ???????

It's just his timing that all of you big babies are whining about. If he would have already had his house and been living in it, NOT ONE OF THESE POSTS WOULD BE HERE trashing up DU.

:grr:

[Gwerlain]

197. Troll alert. n/t

[Rex]

198. Hes got 10s of millions, I expect him to buy a huge house and

a massive garage and maybe a bowling alley or two and a golf course in the back. I expect him to have bought into the 'American Dream' and loves to watch baseball and eat apple pie on Sunday after church.

What else would you expect from a wealthy person? Wendys? :sarcasm:

[kdpeters]

199. John Edwards & Oprah -- how dare they help the poor!!!!

From now on, I decree, anyone wealthy who wants to help the poor must first live like the poor!! If you have a big house or a vacation home in Hana -- take your money and give it to the Republicans!!

[MyNameGoesHere]

201. Why have you not posted this

photo and condemned this man and his family?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_Compound

[Neshanic]

203. It goes like this. There are old houses and there are new ones. Follow?

The Edwards manse is a NEW home/complex/minimall.

Like the house next to yours. It may be OLD. A very smart family could move in and retrofit it with all new things and make it very energy efficient.

Maybe someone will move into an empty lot behind you and cut down 50% of the trees and build a NEW house. Maybe they are not so energy efficient. The house faces the wrong way, the roofline does not take the sun angles into account, they pave a huge portion of the lot for the huge drive, and they did not hink about the runoff that may run into your property with oil residues, affecting the wildlife.

See? New, and old.

Had me confused for along time too.

[lonestarnot]

204. George Washington had a noble home for his time.

But I must agree, that this is outlandishly ostentatious. I'm not impressed with the showmanship.

[knight_of_the_star]

207. If only I was here earlier

That was like tossing a chumbucket in SF Bay in December.

[Moderator]

208. locking....

This is flamebait and a continuation
of arguments from other threads.