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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 05:54 PM
Original message
Dig A Pony

"Man’s capacity for self-awareness, reason, and imagination – new qualities that go beyond the capacity for instrumental thinking of even the cleverest animals – requires a picture of the world and his place in it that is structured and has inner cohesion. Man needs a map of his natural and social world, without which he would be confused and unable to act purposely and consistently. He would have no way of orienting himself and finding himself a fixed point that permits him to organize all the impressions that impinge upon him. Whether he believes in sorcery and magic as final explanations of all events, or in the spirit of his ancestors as guiding his life and fate, or in an omnipotent god who will reward or punish him, or in the power of science to give answers to all human problems – from the standpoint of his need for a frame of orientation, it does not make any difference. His world makes sense to him, and he feels certain about his ideas through the consensus with those around him. Even if the map is wrong, it fulfills its psychological function. But the map was never entirely wrong – nor has it ever been entirely right, either. It has always been enough of an approximation to the explanation of phenomena to serve the purpose of living. Only to the degree which the practice of life is freed from its contradictions and its irrationality can the theoretical picture correspond to the truth.

"The impressive fact is that we do not find any culture in which there does not exist such a frame of orientation. Or any individual either. Often an individual may disclaim having any such overall picture and believe that he responds to the various phenomena and incidents of life from case to case, as his judgement guides him. But it can be easily demonstrated that he takes his own philosophy for granted, because to him it is only common sense, and he is unaware that all of his concepts rest upon a commonly accepted frame of reference. When such a person is confronted with a fundamentally different total view of life he judges it as ‘crazy’ or ‘irrational’ or ‘childish,’ while he considers himself as being only logical."
--Erich Fromm; The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness; pages 259-260.

Recently, there have been a few OPs/threads on General Discussion that focus on the nature of people’s world views, including the issue of religion. I’ve been pleased that these have not all been sent to the "religion" forum, as at least a couple that I enjoyed were not so much about religious issues per say, but about the role that religion plays in the structure of our society.

There are distinct advantages to having discussions about this topic: for if this country is to get back upon its feet and move forward, it will be in large part due to people beng able to find common ground, and perhaps an increased understanding of why other people view the world, and indeed, the meaning of their life, differently than we as individuals do.

This is not meant to imply that the religious forum itself, where people tend to debate specific issues, is not of value. But it is to say that most DUers are pretty decent folk, who may have different social constructs, but are generally hoping to improve the conditions of this world. It may be that we have disagreements with others’ views, yet if we are not open-minded enough to appreciate differences, and respect each other, we risk being similar to the rather obnoxious right-wing republicans who demand that we "debate" them on issues, where their only goal is to prove we are "wrong," and that they are "right." Many of the most pressing issues we face are the direct results of this type of narrow-minded intolerance.

Peace,
H2O Man
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. thank you...........
Edited on Wed Apr-01-09 06:07 PM by spanone
as you say....'Nominated'
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-02-09 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Thanks. n/t
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. i have nothing to add but the first rec
and to add that the root, relig(ire) is to bind, tie, fasten...

each of us together,
dp
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R Thank you. n/t
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. You can celebrate
anything you want.

Not everyone agrees, of course, but we can keep working on it.

K&R.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Heck of a song.
Seems to fit some DU discussions, too.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
5. Each person has his world view.
Edited on Wed Apr-01-09 06:46 PM by immoderate
None of us "knows" the world directly. Our knowledge is filtered through our senses, moderated by our experiences, and sculpted by our personalities. And everyone's picture of the universe is different. At most, only one person can have it absolutely right. And the odds against that are long.

I know that this is a reflection of what you say in your OP, but I had to get it in, as I've said this to many students and friends and some adversaries along the way. It is one of the most important things that we must keep in mind when we deal with people, which is what politics is. Maybe I want you to know that I "get it."

I try to keep in mind that the person I fight in one thread, is my ally in most other struggles.

I'm sorry that I have nothing to add to your treatise. You're just that good. :)

--imm
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thoughtful as usual
K & R
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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
7. Boom goes the dynamite!
"Many of the most pressing issues we face are the direct results of this type of narrow-minded intolerance."

Thank you for this insight. You are like the Eagle: you fly higher than the rest and see things that many who are closer to the ground fail to see.
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byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R, whenever I see that username.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Back To One With You
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you H2O Man...for another deeply insightful post....may I add
a quote from a great 20th century philosopher to your theme this evening....


"Pure consciousness is, is what is, nothing else is - so I am not."

- Wei Wu Wei
1968
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azul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-01-09 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
12. Tolerance is key to civilization human, where selfishness is the dominant ignorance.
At the democratic party blog I got bonked about for saying that Jains have the best attitude for politics. "You're right, and you're right too" attitude was a bit of a stretch for KA progressives when confronted with narrow-minded conservative/authoritarian parrots. And I can see the point, and know about the example of Germany when supremacists gained too much power.

But I still think that Jains would make the best leaders in large and diverse countries.

Have you read The Political Brain -about mental rewards for group behaviors? (I have only read articles by Weston and and curious about the book.)

http://www.thepoliticalbrain.com/videos.php
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