Office discussion: Rudy beats Hillary and Obama

[Clark2008]

No one remembered who Edwards was. Thompson would kick everyone's butt should he enter.

This was just bandied about over the cubicles and included voters of all stripes: Republicans, Indies and Dems.

This little conversation lasted about 10 minutes - no one was arguing or pontificating. People just had that general agreement. Of course, most people said they can't believe this is being discussed a full year before we even vote.

I'm in a reddish-purple state (Dem state government, half-half Dem-Rep US congressmen/women and two Rep senators).

Thoughts?

[Clark2008]

1. I guess this thought process isn't popular here - but it is

probably being discussed in other states, in other offices.

What's your office saying? Anything? Where do you live? Blue, purple or red state?

[SteppingRazor]

2. "No one remembered who Edwards was. "

That righ tthere is what makes the entire conversation somewhat fallacious. By the time Election Day rolls around, most voters will be familiar with both candidates and all their foibles. They won't just be saying "Giuliani's America's Mayor ... Edwards who?"

[AshevilleGuy]

35. It goes with this territory.

Supporters of a certain non-candidate NEVER miss an opportunty (even if there is none) to trash John Edwards. We never hear the reson why, but it's just DONE. It's like an obsession. I am not being cryptic here, this is what I know about it. I just wonder what they will do if this non-candidate finally says he is NOT running - it's disturbing to contemplate.

[0rganism]

3. Do they know Rudy?

I mean, are they aware he knowingly appointed a corrupt mob guy as chief of police?

That he's a thrice-divorced cousin marrier?

That he royally boned the city's 9-11 response?

Or is it all about "America's Mayor"?

[Clark2008]

6. That wasn't discussed.

Nothing was discussed other than what I typed.

This is the gut reaction of the electorate in my neck of the woods, based on what, I don't know.

These aren't political junkies - just average folks working, paying bills and maybe catching a bit of news here and there.

I did not pipe in with anything - I wanted to listen.

That they don't know Edwards was odd, considering he was the VP choice of the Dems in 2004. Someone finally remembered his name, but called him 'Jonathan Edwards,' (close enough).

All that was discussed was who beats whom.

[rodeodance]

4. actually Mccain is even. Both Reps BEAT the DEMS. new poll

they were just talking of on msnbc.

[Clark2008]

8. Ironically, he wasn't even mentioned in this conversation, btw.

[cascadiance]

36. It sounds like they are talking about Time's latest "cherry picked" poll....

Jamison Foser has a good article on this on Media Matters today...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703310002

He notes that Time Washington Bureau Chief Jay Carney wrote about his latest poll which is probably what they were reading. Yes, the same Jay Carney who just a week or go or so apologized for Time not being on top of the attorneygate scandal like Josh Marshal and TPM Muckraker and other message boards like DU have been.

Foser notes that Edwards was inexplicably totally left out of the poll altogether, even though arguably he has as much name recognition of the rest of those do that were polled. And he also notes that one Republican that WAS polled, Mitt Romney, lost against both Clinton and Obama by signficant margins, but he CONVENIENTLY doesn't discuss those results at all, likely because it would throw a wrench into his analysis that somehow people still favor Republicans in general now by just focusing on the Giuliani and McCain matchups.

And of course Foser himself doesn't note that Gore is also missing from this mix too. Though not an official candidate, I think he would completely upend Carney's pseudoanalysis!

[Selatius]

5. DU represents the leftist half of America.

The office workplace tends to be a mixed bag of everybody. Giuliani has "street cred." It's difficult to define that except that he appears to be the kind of person who "makes the trains run on time" and is gritty and isn't known as a fancy-talker politician.

Personally, I think his economic policies are some of worst things America could get at this point in time.

[Clark2008]

7. I agree.

I just found it odd that no one could remember Edwards (until someone piped in with his wrong name) and that Thompson was the favorite, should he run.

We're in Tennessee, which explains the Thompson thing - but it looks like they would know Edwards.

[The Count]

18. If it'as so leftist, how comes the black man who was anti-war is barely mentioned

and even Kuchinich, but IWR sponsor Edwards overtook all threads? Don't look too leftist to me...

[Selatius]

19. I generally consider it more leftist than not, given the amount of socialists on this board.

I count myself among one of those socialists.

[The Count]

25. Amply counteracted by the political operatives from a certain campaign

[PATRICK]

9. You mean like the co-worker

that came to me and said: "Tell me seriously that Hillary is not going to win." The very moderate, NY Hillary for Senate voter who doesn't follow politics much, no axes to grind, merely responding to the vague impression created by the MSM concering the "race".

It shows how utterly meaningless(except for fund-raising and media momentum) the opinions of the voters are at this stage. Mostly reacting to the "meaning" of meaningless polling as interpreted by the purveyors of "opinion".

Underground, where we are, Hillary continues to be in bedrock trouble. The negatives set in lasting stone
as a household commodity for a long time, the positives alone- conversely- going stale are where people will continue to be long after the money and media courtship(among themselves) assault peters out into real world voting. The enforced unknowing of the masses, the attempted magical reversal of common sense at the top continues unchanged.

As for Obama and Edwards. Edwards is hardly in the MSM pre-game contest falsity. Obama is trying to be wished away even before he actually becomes a known household item like the foredoomed Hillary. hence the incredibly twisted "vacuity" charges by the punditry. Naturally, a weak, elite favored "frontrunner"(like some fantastic show athlete pumping, jumping up and down for the cameras, oohed and aahed at by her agents and the cameras, doing calisthenics while her bioflic plays on ABC, makes the most of the opportunity to psych. But the "race" the winning of actual votes, has not even begun. The people are more like spectators just tuning in and seeing the pre-game hype and a formidable, familiar and unpopular face. Counterpart: Rudy the Phony.

And your statement reminds us how false the polling, the horserace and the assumptions are and how they are most likely being manipulated to give people the impression they have no real choices except the poll and pol and pundit anointed. So shallow that no one should pay the psych much heed.

However it does guarantee that a huge mass of voters of both parties are sleepwalking perhaps right into the polling booth under a general superimposed prejudice with only those seeking real knowledge at play. And not all that focused or concerned about their danger.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. I like these "office polls" and suspect...

they're a bit more accurate than phone polls, what with so many people not answering the phone. At least in the local area around the office.

Rudy's reputation leans on three things-- he "brought down the mob," he "cleaned up New York," and that 9/11 thing.

None of these are entirely true, nor are they entirely untrue, but they are the image that his PR machine, second only to Trump's in energy and shamelessness, put out.

When I lived in NJ, "cleaned up New York" was almost a mantra when Rudy's name came up. People visiting saw marginally cleaner stereets, fewer homeless beggars and hookers, and no squeegee guys so it seemd a lot cleaner. None of them knew about the inherent racism, the bunkering of City Hall long before 9/11, the constant battles over silly stuff, like ferrets or jazz and rap. Or the intensely serious battles with just about everyone over things like budgets. They certainly didn't know how Rudy managed to rework city statistics to make himself look better.

But, I lived in New York during for a long time, including during Koch, Dinkins, and part of Rudy's tenure, and watched Rudy turn a messy but incredibly vibrant city into a dictatorship where the City Council had to sue him to see the budget before they voted on it.

[Snotcicles]

11. When they start the pool bet on the Dem. nt

[LSK]

12. when and If Edwards wins Iowa, the pundits will have to discuss a 3 person race

And Edwards will become a known commodity.

He has to win Iowa thou.

[Forkboy]

13. People around the country still see Rudy as the 9/11 mayor

They know little else about him yet.When they do he's toast,I believe.

Thompson may be a different matter altogether though.

[sable302]

24. I don't think we've ever had

a divorced president, let alone one with three under his belt. Rudy would lose, no question.

[Forkboy]

26. I don't see him as a strong candidate at all.

But the media can certainly influence more people than I can,so you never know. :)

[rebel with a cause]

34. "Saint Reagan" was divorced. from his first wife Jane Wyman.

Funny thing is that they supposedly divorced because of difference in political ideals. Her children with him are both republicans I believe, and the two that he had with Nancy are both Liberals. Scatching my head and wondering what Jane's political ideals were. :shrug:

[noonwitch]

14. Most of my coworkers are liberals/democrats

And I live in a blue state/city. Most support either Hillary or Obama, or hope for a combined ticket.

However, the woman who sits next to me is fairly conservative (anti-abortion, but pro-gay rights including adoption). She doesn't like McCain, thinks he's nuts. She liked Bush until recently, and she doesn't hate him, just thinks he's in over his head. She likes Rudy, even though I pointed out that he is a liberal, who supports abortion rights and likes to wear a dress every once in a while. She likes Romney, but not as much as Rudy. I think it's about his performance on 9-11. I'm not a republican, but I loved him that day.

My 93 year old die-hard republican grandpa likes McCain, and is terrified that Hillary Clinton will become president and inspire women to rise up and kill all the men, except for the few we need for procreation-those we'll keep in cages until we need them. He's 93 and watches FOX news all day, when he's not at the nursing home with Grandma. Of course, Grandma's vote will be for whoever the republicans nominate-he casts her vote for her, regardless of the fact that before her stroke, she was a swing voter (FDR, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I (in 1988), and Clinton (both times).

[devilgrrl]

15. Thoughs? Seems like you work with a lot of idiots.

:shrug:

[enki23]

16. remember. you work in an *office*

.

[daa]

17. Rudy won't get any votes in Georgia

because he doesn't hate gays.

[skipos]

20. You think GA will vote for Obama, Edwards or Clinton?

I don't. GA didn't even go for Clinton in 1996. That is a red state, and I highly doubt a Dem will win it.

[skipos]

21. Rudy beats most Dems in most polls.

I hope he isn't the nominee. Go Mitt! Go Newt!

[loudsue]

22. The repervlikins plan to steal 2008....that's what it tells me.

When the media, the "polls" and the sheeple are all on the same page, it is Rove. It tells me that his theft of the election in 2008 is an already done deal.

:kick::kick::kick:

[pnwmom]

23. Rudy is still benefiting from the 9/11 halo effect. That will wear off.

And Clinton has always provoked strong opinions.

The fact that you're from Tennessee explains why Thompson seems so strong in your neck of the woods. Where I live, most people probably couldn't tell you who he is -- even if they watch that show.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

27. Good thing Tennessee

is in no way an indicator of the rest of the country. It doesn't worry me that co-workers in your red state don't like any of the candidates so far. I say red state because in an election cycle that saw Democrats win back congress your state voted for the regressive Corker. I think I already know the answer to my next question, but here goes nothing. Who do you think can flip red states? Since the answer to every question asked of you and a handful of other vocal posters is Clark, what makes you think he could do it? Don't get me wrong I like Clark, and would not be upset at all if he won the nomination. However, nominating a candidate just because "he dun blowed shit up in The Balkans" might not be the best of reasons.

BTW maybe you being in Tennessee might explain why Thompson seems so popular?

[Rydz777]

28. I have a sinking feeling

that if there is another major terrorist attack in the USA before the next election, Giuliani will be made President by acclamation - no recorded votes.

[lpbk2713]

29. Faux hero-worshippers.

They still have visions of Fooliani schmoozing with the NYFD. They don't know what the NYFD thinks of him these days.

[cgrindley]

30. yep easy enough to believe

DU'ers sometimes forget that we are more politically informed than 98% of the public and as embarrassingly pathetic as it is, that other 1% is Freep. Hence Freep's idiotic insistence that Rudy won't be the GOP candidate and our idiotic resistence to Hillary.

The closest battle would be Rudy+anyone vs Hillary/Obama and the outcome would probably be Rudy.

We've got to find ways to bury our differences and start promoting Hillary/Obama and hope that Freep somehow manages to sabotage Rudy for that idiot Romney.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

31. Rudy won't be the nominee, and Freddy hasn't declared n/t

[WinkyDink]

32. No way do Red Staters vote for a Noo Yawk Eye-talian.

Even I, an Italian-American, wouldn't give a fig about him.

[WorldResident]

33. Your State government is not fully Dem

You have a Republican Lieutentant Governor and a Republican State Senate. :) Furthermore, your congressional delegation is a majority Dem (5-4).

You thus had my game impossible to play without checking your profile.