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My Views on Specialist Town’s & the other 22,500 Phony Military Diagnoses of “Personality Disorder"

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 05:44 PM
Original message
My Views on Specialist Town’s & the other 22,500 Phony Military Diagnoses of “Personality Disorder"
Having taken a number of psychiatry courses in medical school and having a psychologist for a father, I know enough about “personality disorder” to have a pretty good idea that the discharge of more than 5,600 U.S. Army and 22,500 total military soldiers with that diagnosis (which conveniently relieves our government of the obligation to pay them disability or ANY medical benefits) has been the result of something much more sinister than mere incompetence on the part of however many military physicians are involved. And I’d bet money that the percent of those diagnoses that are phony are a lot closer to 100% than 99%. I’m serious, and that’s not an exaggeration. Let me explain.


Personality disorder

The term “personality disorder” is a psychiatric term of vague meaning and even vaguer causation. The Wikipedia has a pretty good discussion of it, capturing it best with the phrases “deeply ingrained, maladaptive, lifelong behavior patterns” and “an enduring pattern of inner experience and behavior that deviates markedly from the expectations of the culture of the individual who exhibits it”. What could be vaguer than that? By that definition couldn’t someone like Nelson Mandela have qualified? Being strongly against apartheid in South Africa certainly constituted behavior that deviated markedly from most “cultural expectations”; and the fact that his behavior landed him in prison for several years certainly could qualify that behavior as being maladaptive.

Notwithstanding its vagueness, the following are pretty well accepted characteristics of “personality disorder”: 1) If there is a known cause for the problem, it is not a personality disorder; 2) It is a life long pattern, becoming manifest by adolescence or early adulthood; 3) There are no accepted objective tests for its diagnosis; and 4) There is no good treatment for it.

I have never seen statistics on the frequency of “personality disorder”, but if such statistics exist I think they would be close to meaningless, unless more specific criteria were used to make the diagnosis. It is simply a very poorly understood and subjective diagnosis, and many psychiatrists and psychologists consider the diagnosis to be close to meaningless.


Brief summary of expose in The Nation on how our military uses the diagnosis to screw our troops

The recent article in The Nation by Joshua Kors, “How Specialist Town Lost His Benefits”, is very good and very revealing. It is centered around specialist Jon Town, who suffered a severe injury while stationed in Iraq, which left him with long standing headaches, partial deafness, nightmares, memory loss, and depression. Though none of those things are accepted consequences of “personality disorder”, that was the diagnosis he received from the U.S. Army. That diagnosis relieved our government of the obligation for paying him disability benefits or any future medical benefits. And it also allowed them to retrieve the better part of $15,000 in bonus pay from him, for his unfulfilled commitment. The stated rationale for all that is that “personality disorder” is a pre-existing condition, and therefore the Army should not be responsible for making amends for it.

The article goes on to quote five different U.S. Army officials who defend the policy and the Army’s use of it as “appropriate”. It also quotes severe criticisms of the Army’s use of the policy, from two veterans’ activists, a civilian psychiatrist, and two U.S. Army lawyers (anonymous, of course). The criticisms are all right on target and the defenses of the policy by the Army officials all sound like something you might hear from Tony Snow, Ari Fleischer, or Bill O’Lielly. Most revealing are the insights from the anonymous Army lawyers, since they have an inside take on the situation:

“Commanders want to get these guys out the door and get it done fast … So they’re telling the docs what diagnosis to give to get what discharge.” The lawyer says he knows this is happening because commanders have told him that they’re doing it…

A second lawyer says he’s watched the same process play out at his base. “What I’ve noticed is right before a unit deploys, we see a spike in 5-13s (personality disorder discharges), as if the commanders are trying to clean house… they’re kicking them to the curb instead of treating them.”

Both lawyers say that once a commander steps in and pushes for a 5-13, the diagnosis and discharge are carved in stone fairly fast. After that happens, one lawyer says he points soldiers toward the Army Board for Correction of Military Records… Few cases are challenged successfully or overturned later, say the lawyers…


My personal experiences with similar issues

I joined the U.S. Army reserves in the summer of 2001 (prior to September 11). I believe it was 2003 when I was diagnosed with a disease of my motor neurons, which resulted in atrophy of my muscles, especially in my legs, with consequent instability of my hip joint, arthritis of my hip, and substantially reduced mobility. My diagnosis is a variant of Lou Gehrig’s Disease (otherwise known as Amyotropic Lateral Sclerosis, or ALS), except that my disease progresses much slower than ALS and is unlikely to be fatal. It has not substantially interfered with the quality of my life, except that I now play tennis much less often, in order to slow down the damage to my hip joint, which will eventually need to be replaced. In fact, my disease may have substantially improved the quality of my life, by preventing me from being sent to Iraq.

I subsequently applied for a medical discharge from the Army Reserves, but I didn’t receive any response from them for several months. Then one day I received a call from an Army official who told me that the Army was ready to grant me a general honorable discharge. I told him that I had applied for a medical discharge, and I would rather have that because my understanding was that only a medical discharge would prevent the Army from recouping the bonus money that I had received. He assured me that the Army would not request the bonus money back in either case, and that the general discharge would be quicker than the medical discharge. So I told him that if that was the case then a general discharge would be fine.

A couple of weeks later I received a letter from the Army granting me a general honorable discharge, but telling me that I had to repay them my bonus money. Since I had never agreed to those terms I appealed that decision and sent them the required letter from my neurologist, which explained my diagnosis and the physical limitations that it entailed. The Army Board for Correction of Military Records (noted in the above Nation article) subsequently disapproved my appeal with no explanation. When I requested an explanation, they told me that I hadn’t proven that I was medically unfit for duty.

This whole episode sounds very similar (though less dramatic) to parts of The Nation article, except that in my case, instead of diagnosing me with “personality disorder” they simply gave me no diagnosis at all, and they didn’t even examine me. Here is the applicable part from the article:

If a soldier dismissed under 5-13 hasn’t served out his contract, he has to give back a slice of his re-enlistment bonus as well… One military official says doctors at his base are doing more than withholding this information from wounded soldiers; they’re actually telling them the opposite: that if they go along with a 5-13, they’ll get to keep their bonus and receive disability and medical benefits…. The doctors are telling them, this will get you out quicker… What they don’t realize is, those things are lies…”


I had previously served in the U.S. Air Force for five years, 1977-82, as a Flight Surgeon, which meant that I was responsible for providing medical care to flying crews and their families. I don’t recall ever being pressured by my superiors to make a specific diagnosis during my Air Force service – but we fought no wars during that period of time, and George W. Bush wasn’t our Commander in Chief then.

There was only one situation I faced as a Flight Surgeon that was anything similar to that faced by today’s physicians who are pressured to make phony “personality disorder” diagnoses. That situation involved the military’s ban against gay men. We had been told during our Air Force training that if we ever encountered a gay military man during the performance of our official duties we were obligated to report it up the Air Force chain of command. I don’t recall ever thinking about that issue until the day that I was confronted by it.

A patient of mine was diagnosed with gonorrhea, and it was my responsibility to identify his sexual contact(s) so that they could be located and given prophylactic treatment, in order to prevent them from getting sick and spreading the disease further. But my patient wouldn’t give me the name of his contact(s). I argued with him about that for perhaps 15 minutes, and finally I told him that if he refused to give me his contact information I would have to report him to his commander. That’s when he told me that he was gay, and if I reported him he would be discharged from the military and lose all the retirement benefits he had accumulated over 14 years of service. Since I couldn’t bear the thought of doing that to someone, I let it pass after receiving a promise from him that he would notify his sexual contact.

The decision I faced is similar to the decisions faced by physicians being pressured to make phony diagnoses of “personality disorder” only in the respect that both types of decisions involve the potential to do terrible harm to a soldier, in the process of complying with military orders or pressure. But the two situations are also very different, in that in my case I wasn’t asked to do something blatantly dishonest, and also what I did didn’t require courage since my superiors never even knew about it. On the other hand, I imagine that it would require quite a bit of courage for today’s military physicians to resist the substantial pressure to make these phony “personality disorder” diagnoses. I’ll bet that those with consciences are going through hell.


How do we know that almost all of these diagnoses are phony?

But I haven’t explained yet why I feel so certain that virtually all of the military “personality disorder” diagnoses are phony. When I contend that almost all of these diagnoses are phony I don’t mean to imply that none of the 22,500 soldiers discharged for “personality disorder” actually had a personality disorder. However personality disorder is defined, there would have to be at least some soldiers in that large group who met the diagnostic criteria. What I’m saying is that of those 22,500 soldiers who actually had personality disorders, their personality disorder was not the reason for their discharge – rather they were discharged for some other reason, but given the diagnosis of personality disorder in order to save money for Halliburton… I mean the U.S. government, in order to help pay for its tax cuts for the wealthy and lucrative no-bid contracts for its cronies.

In order to realize the validity of that statement all one needs to do is consider the recruiting practices of the U.S. military today. The point is that “personality disorder” poses no barrier whatsoever to recruitment, as shown by this statement:

There was "a significant increase in the number of recruits with what the Army terms 'serious criminal misconduct' in their background" – a category that included "aggravated assault, robbery, vehicular manslaughter, receiving stolen property and making terrorist threats." From 2004 to 2005, the number of those recruits rose by more than 54 percent…

I said earlier that the diagnostic criteria for personality disorder are quite vague. That is true, but whatever definition is used, certainly most soldiers included in the above noted categories of recruits have very substantial personality disorders – by any definition. Since serious personality disorders are obviously no barrier to recruitment, how can they be used as an excuse for discharge? They can’t be – in a rational world. The only rational conclusion is that the U.S. military does not discharge soldiers for personality disorders. The whole thing is one big sham.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R!!!
American military are being screwed in the ass every which way including Sundays. For the past 5 years I have had to "debrief" a dedicated health care specialist at the V.A. every week. I supplied the info the V.A. REFUSED to give. I got an earful of the memos instructing/commanding those whose desire was to HEAL on how to WRITE THEIR WARDS OFF.

Yes, indeed. IT'S ONE BIG SHAM.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. So let me get this straight.
Do you mean that these health care specialists are instructed to treat their patients poorly, and you have to explain to them what they're doing wrong?

Who tells them to do that, and why?
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. What I mean is that they do NOT
Edited on Sat Mar-31-07 05:17 AM by Karenina
always get the unexpurgated records of what the troops have been exposed to. I'm an information junkie so when I come across something relevant I simply pass along a heads-up. The stonewalling from higher-ups is a horror. The attempts to "privatize" are also taking a serious toll. (We're talking "Peter Principle" here). These are DEDICATED PROFESSIONALS, who take their Hippocratic Oath seriously, struggling to provide the BEST CARE they can without the proper resources and restricted by "policies" designed to "save money."
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Yes, I don't doubt that that is the case
When I was in the Air Force, certainly the majority of physicians I knew were dedicated professionals.

I take it that you're talking about VA physicians, rather than active military, right?

It's very difficult for me to comprehend what is going on in the military today. With 22,500 discharges for "personality disorder", it seems to me that there must be a lot of quackery and bad faith going on among many of the physicians. Certainly this isn't happening just because those physicians get bad information. But there must also be many who refuse to play along with that. What is happeing with them? Are they tolerated, or are they kicked out? Or are they threatened? I suspect that it's something analogous to the US attorney scandals, where many of the good ones are gotten rid of somehow, and they're replaced by hacks. I'm talking about active duty military, not the VA system.

So, are you doing all this as part of your job? What is your position, that you're able to get all this information to pass on?
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teriyaki jones Donating Member (336 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sounds like Heller's "Catch 22"
Except far more sinister. Each day's newest revelations are almost too much to bear anymore. I didn't really believe in the concept of good and evil until these evil bastards showed us its true manifestation.

tj
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. Always trying to "support the troops" on the cheap...
Always shaving benefits and necessary assistance....It makes my blood boil
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Talk about shaving benefits
Votes on veterans' benefits generally go along almost straight Party-line votes:
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Time%20for%20change/42

Makes you wonder why this kind of thing doesn't get a lot more play by the news media.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Okay, so you need to establish the percentage of PD in new recruits
and the percentage of PD in new discharges and compare both to the baseline rate of PD in the general population. So you can say, "PD, whatever it is, is diagnosed at a higher rate amongst discharges." . . . ?
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Bingo n/t
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. I don't see how that would work
The rate of "PD" must be extremely high among "medical" discharges, given that there have been at least 22,500 of them. I don't doubt that it is well over 50%, or even much higher. The military just claims that they're discharging them because they were found to have PD. The baseline in new recruits must be ZERO, because they can't diagnose it in new recruits and then use that as an excuse to discharge them without benefits. One of the physicians in the article claims that their PD is inapparent when they're recruited, but under the stress of military service it often becomes manifest. That's totally out of line with the consensus on the nature of PD, which is that it is a life long manifest behavior pattern.

The most obvious key to the fraudulent nature of their scheme is that many if not the great majority of these people have serious physical problems, as Specialist Town had. PD does not cause physical symptoms. This is an obvious case of mass fraud perpetrated on our soldiers, and if Congress would investigate it, it could -- and should -- turn into a major scandal.

Here is an article which says that the baseline prevalence of PD in our country is about 15%:
http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/39/17/12

Over half of those are "obsessive-compulsive" personality disorder.
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. My perspective from 35 years ago
About 35 years ago, I processed paperwork for people they were kicking out of the army for reasons short of court martial. This was mostly using AR 635-212 (AR=army regulation). At least at that time, I think the term they used was "personality and behavior disorder." In practice, it meant they couldn't fit into the army and probably should never have been allowed (or drafted) in. I think they had to see an army psychologist or psychiatrist as part of the process but it seemed, at least to me, that that was a formality. If it was an actual diagnosis of a mental illness, that fact never dawned on me and I seriously doubt that most of the people being kicked out realized that. They were generally just happy to get out, however they could. I doubt that much has changed.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
27. The people discussed in The Nation article were not at all happy to be "kicked out" in the way that
they were.

Many of these soldiers were seriously injured, and the Army couldn't use them in combat any more. They were going to be let go one way or the other -- the only question was whether or not they would receive the disability pay and medical benefits that they so richly deserved. They were given a diagnosis of "personality disorder" to save the military money, and at least the ones discussed in the article were not the least bit happy about it.

I believe that it is inaccurate to say that nothing has changed. I don't believe that fraud practiced on this scale has ever plagued our military in this manner. Just like the US attorney scandal; just like their systematic torture program; just like their comprehensive election fraud; this administration is setting new lows in everything it does.
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hvn_nbr_2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. That sounds like a whole different thing than 35 years ago
The only thing in common seems to be the "diagnosis" dictated by military desires more than by psychological reality.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. As I understand it
an HMO, CEO has been inserted into the VA.
This is an old insurance company trick. It is used on injured workers who file workers comp claims, injured drivers etc. as well.
A bought and paid for MD will comb medical records to find one small thing that they think will support their bogus diagnosis.
When people see a doctor and they ask "have you been under stress lately?" ot "tell me about your family, any problems there?" anything you say can and will be held against you.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. But they don't feel they need "one small thing to support their bogus diagnosis"
They need nothing at all. They simply give them the diagnosis, and that's it. They don't even bother to interview the family to get an idea of the pre-enlistment personality.

And then if you appeal the decision to their Board for Correction of Military Records, they'll just give you the same diagnosis again and won't even feel the They need nothing at all. They simply give them the diagnosis, and that's it. They don't even bother to interview the family to get an idea of the pre-enlistment personality.

And then if you appeal the decision to their Board for Correction of Military Records, they'll just give you the same diagnosis again and won't even feel the need to explain it. need to explain it.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. It's horrible
the people who perpetrate this are thieves and murderers because that is the result of their actions.
The professionals who participate in this - and there are many in the medical community - enjoy benefits for themselves.

Believe me - this is a script that has been used successfully against injured workers for years. It is as much the crime of the medical profession as the VA.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. I would love to know what's happening to the medical professionals who won't go along with this
There must be large numbers of them who refuse to provide these phony diagnoses. Are they being fired, like the U.S. attorneys? I think that this is fertile ground for a big Congressional investigation, which could go far towards bringing this administration down.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Good point
After the first Gulf War there were a couple VA doctors who publicly stated that there was really something wrong with people reporting Gulf War Syndrome. One woman spoke of intimidation for dspeaking out. Then they were not heard from anymore. GWS is another one that is diagnosed as pre-existing mental condition. No benefits.

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meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've got my own amateur psychiatric diagnosis:
Edited on Fri Mar-30-07 06:40 PM by meldroc
Antisocial personality disorder, for the commanders who are giving the orders to deny wounded veterans disability pay. In other words, they're psychopaths.

Those motherfuckers should be hung, drawn and quartered for what they've done.

No, I'm not exaggerating. Kill those brassholes, every single one of them. They're not even human. Put them down like animals.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. We are all expendable. This cabal cares naught for the people,
or the soldiers. A great post!
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. I may be wrong, but by today's standards most of us
have a little bit of personality disorders. A little over a year ago I was diagnosed as having several that have been caused by abuse that I have suffered over the years, but according to your post these can not be personality disorders because there was a cause. Okay, here are the diagnoses and you tell me what you think. Agoraphobia, probably no cause there. Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome and Panic disorder caused by the afore mentioned cause. Now doctor, if you are still around, tell me if these would keep me out of the military? Of course, I am sixty-one and in failing health, so I don't think I have anything to worry about. ;-)
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I don't know what would keep people out of the military these days
As I noted in the OP, they're taking all sorts of criminal types these days. Charles Graner, of Abu Ghraib infamy, is just one of numerous examples. He was a prison guard in civilian life, and he had a history of prisoner abuse. I think that's exactly the type of person that the Bush administration was looking for. They certainly want soldiers who are not averse to torturing people.

When you say that most of us have "a little bit of personality disorder", in one sense that is correct. But really, all that means is that most of us are far from perfect. Technically, you would be wrong to say that because, technically either one has a personality disorder or one doesn't have one. But like I said, it is a very vague and poorly understood diagnosis, and there is little consensus within the psychiatric community on what is the significance of it.

What I said in the OP regarding causes was that if there is a KNOWN cause then it isn't a personality disorder. Many people believe that abuse in childhood plays a causal role in some personality disorders, and there is evidence for that. But it is not possible to prove in any individual case. Jon Town, on the other hand, developed his symptomes after receiving a very serious injury while in Iraq. That means that his subsequent problems could not have been due to a personality disorder -- and yet that's what they diagnosed him as.

Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome is definitely NOT a personality disorder. That is undoubtedly what many of these soldiers have, who are being diagnosed with "personality disorder" in order to avoid giving them benefits. If they were diagnosed with PTSS, then that would imply that they obtained their problem while in the military, and so the military would be responsible.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Interesting and much more serious than I was in terms
Edited on Fri Mar-30-07 09:02 PM by rebel with a cause
of us all having personality disorders. My panic disorder and agoraphobia were both manageable without medication or concern until my PTSS became worse. Now they are all pretty much connected.

The childhood abuse certainly played a part in my problems, but the diagnosis is that my marriage is what caused the PTSS. Can't get into all the details, but it was pretty bad without being as bad as a lot of other people have had it. Minimum physical abuse, just other stuff. My last place of employment (full time anyway) was what pushed me over the edge from just being unsure of myself and afraid of being wrong to being afraid of the world outside. PTSS multiplied(?)making the other two problems worse. Even my agoraphobia is not as bad as other peoples. I can go outside as long as I feel comfortable with where I am going or am with someone that I feel safe with. Panic attacks are possible in both instances, but if I take medication it is controllable. In other words, I may be nuts but I am not crazy. ;-)

Edited to add: I have empathy for those who have PTSS from their experiences in war. Theirs have to be hundreds of times worse than anything I might have. It is a crying shame what this government has done to so many of our young people. When will it end? And are we strong enough to make it end even if the election does not? These are questions we should be asking ourselves, because we have seen that the legal system has been set up to make this a one party government. If they succeed in 2008, will we take to the streets to fight the way they have in other countries? Or are we going to let them continue killing and maiming our children in the name of world domination? Are we going to let them continue stealing from the poor and giving to the rich? Are we going to let them continue?
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. When will it end?
This has been the most lawless administration in the history of our nation -- by far. Failing to impeach Bush and Cheney is to condone what they have done. If their actions do not demand impeachment then we might as well accept our nation's slide towards tyranny. The American people must demand impeachment and conviction by Congress:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x496184
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Personality Disorder is a specific diagnosis
I think that's what you're trying to say, right? The criteria for making the diagnosis, however, is so vague that most people could "qualify". Which means what they're doing to these soldiers is mega-bullshit.

My daughter's bil is in the Navy and has MS. He had sort of a mental breakdown after the diagnosis. Oddly enough, he had absolutely no trouble getting a disability discharge. He was an officer though, would that make the difference? It just amazes me because everybody I know has gone through hell getting benefits and he had no problem at all. I can't help but wonder if there's something about the MS that makes them not want to jerk these guys around.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yes right, that's what I'm trying to say
It boggles my mind that they get away with this. They've done this with at least 22,500 soldiers. If they really considered "personality disorder" to be disqualifying for service they would make at least some effort to diagnose it prior to enlisting or commissioning people. But they obviously have zero interest in turning away people for that reason. They just use it as a convenient way to save money. I wouldn't doubt if the orders for this program came from the White House.

I imagine that it makes a difference if you're an officer -- I'll bet they're less likely to do this to officers, since officers would probably in general be more willing and have the money to fight back. And MS is a diagnosis that can hardly be argued against. But then, I was an officer, and I had a diagnosis that should have been impossible to argue with as well -- and yet they screwed me over. Different units may operate somewhat differently I suppose, but there is obviously an order from very high levels to screw people over at every opportunity.
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-30-07 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. That is interesting to hear you were a flight surgeon.
And good to know that you are able to live well in spite of your special problems.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Thank you -- and one thing I forgot to mention
is that having to cut way down on my tennis has given me more time to read and post on DU -- which has actually been a pretty good tradeoff. :)
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Flubadubya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
23. Axis II diagnoses are not common...
The "personality disorder" is also called an "Axis II" diagnosis. I do medical transcription for two psychiatrists and two psychologists. I would say that only maybe 15% or so of patients seen receive a personality disorder diagnosis. Usually it is only an Axis I (e.g. major depressive or anxiety disorder), whereas Axis II (e.g. bipolar or dependent traits, etc.) are fairly uncommon.

Funny they could find SOOOO many so conveniently when in practice these diagnoses are rather few.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. They claim that these so-called "personality disorders" were pre-existing prior to entrance into the
military.

Yet they rarely if ever interview family or anyone else in order to verify the pre-existing nature of the "personality disorder". Here's one example from the article:

How the Army determined then that Town's behavioral problems existed before his military service is unclear. Wexler, the Fort Carson psychologist who made the diagnosis, didn't interview any of Town's family or friends. It's unclear whether he even questioned Town's fellow soldiers in 2-17 Field Artillery, men like Fields, Murray and Michael Forbus, who could have testified to his stability and award-winning performance before the October 2004 rocket attack. As Forbus puts it, before the attack Town was "one of the best in our unit"; after, "the son of a gun was deaf in one ear. He seemed lost and disoriented. It just took the life out of him."

Town finds his diagnosis especially strange because the Diagnostic Manual appears to preclude cases like his. It says that a pattern of erratic behavior cannot be labeled a "personality disorder" if it's from a head injury. The specialist asserts that his hearing loss, headaches and anger all began with the rocket attack that knocked him unconscious.


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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
25. Could legislation solve that? Whatever it is that lets the
government get out of paying for their disability sounds like an old fashioned law that needs to be addressed.

Anybody who fights in a war could end up with a "personality disorder."


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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Perhaps it could, but I believe that a thorough Congressional investigation could solve it as well
I feel quite sure that this is simply fraud, and a Congressional investigation should be able to prove that.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. I read the article in the Nation and one thing is that word
needs to be spread that the soldier should read the fine print and not agree to the diagnosis no matter what they are told. When it is something legal, it's only what is in writing that counts, not what the doctor said. The doctor doesn't know and his/her saying you will still get your benefits if you agree to the diagnosis means you just took legal advice from a doctor. And if it's wrong, you're still stuck having signed on the bottom line.

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-31-07 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. That may help but
I don't think that the soldier has to agree to the diagnosis in order to get stuck with it. It's the doctor who makes the diagnosis, not the patient.

But you're right that the article did make it sound like they try to get the soldier's agreement on the diagnosis. That's very confusing and needs some clarification.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. In some cases, at least as said in that article, they had
signed off on it based on doctor reassurances it wouldn't hurt their benefits.

But you're right, too, in others the fed's paid-for doctor was making the diagnosis, which they ultimately could do - they just try the "you agreed" method on younger, legally unsavvy peopld (or maybe some of these doctors believed what they were saying - bureaucracies can get like that).
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