Yet another look at the Edwards house

[hfojvt]

The first link I saw was to a newspaper which was getting alot of hits from the Drudge report. Should have been a clue for me. The newspaper ran a hit piece, and admittedly I fell for it.

However, the MYOB defenses on DU were not very solid answers either.

First, the article was exaggeratting everything.

A 10,400 square foot house. That is definitely pretty big, but that number includes a double garage. All of my siblings have double garages, and my parents have a triple garage. My childhood home had a double garage.

Then they add in 2,200 square feet from a enclosed roofed walkway. Not exactly living space and probably not heated or cooled (but perhaps lighted). That walkway does not look all that fancy to me, pieced together from odd sizes like it is.

Then the article mentions a "barnlike structure" which is pretty clearly a refurbished barn. Barns are not that unusual in the country. Even the silo was refurbished and the article calls it a "four story tower" like it is something super-fancy instead of something very ordinary. It includes, according to the article "a basketball court" which is perhaps nothing more than a couple of hoops and some previously existing concrete. I used to have one of those in my front yard. The squash court is probably not that hard to build either.

It has a pool, and that seems excessive, but I have an uncle who has a pool, and he never seemed rich. Probably he is upper middle class, but seemed poorer because he had 9 children, including one with an unusual disease.

Clearly though, Edwards has not built that place, but remodeled a farm. Does the article say when or how much it cost? I do not remember seeing it, although they talk about its current value. Well, homes appreciate. My parents' retirement property has tripled in value since they built it 18 years ago. Its current value does not make them rich unless they sell it, and even then it would net well less than a million.

The article was clearly a hit piece, written to put everything in the worst possiblle light. Exactly the kind of thing that DU is supposed to debunk. Not something to fall for.

For my part, I apologize for my gullibility in being so quick to think the worst of somebody, but otoh the typical DU defense of "MYOB and let rich people spend their money the way they want" was not a worthy rebuttal either, and seemed to buy the premise of the smear article. That premise was faulty to begin with.

[wakeme2008]

1. People's voting record means more to me

than how many houses and how big are Ted Kenney's.....

[natrat]

47. is the op a paid shill for clinton or the repub nat comittee?

[zeemike]

2. What all of this says to me is

That Edwards is the one they fear the most so they are doing a hit on him early and it will probably be often in the next two years. They want to take him out early on.
So what does this tell us? It tells us that Edwards is not a go along guy, just the kind of man I am looking for.

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. Seems to me everyone's getting smoked by the M$M...

... on the DEM side, not just Edwards. With the possible (and interesting ?) exception of Senator Clinton.

Obama's madrassa; Edward's house; Gore, Gore, Gore; always Gore.

Even Kerry. RW radio buffoon in NYC just lamented Kerry's dropping out. Whined that he had to trash all sorts of pre-fab RW hit pieces he's been holding onto since '04.

[Clark2008]

25. He's not a go-along guy?

Sure, I guess.... I mean, he was the only Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee to vote the Iraqi War Resolution out of committee. He certainly didn't "go-along" with Paul Wellstone and Ted Kennedy on that matter.

:eyes:

[TomClash]

3. Better to have a wealthy man

addressing the problems of the poor and middle class than one solving the "problems" of the bigoted and privileged.

[hfojvt]

6. Yes, and they are all wealthy

but the wealth here is being exxagerated by people who do not have the interests of "the other America" in mind. It's a biggish house and a refurbished barn with a covered walkway. It's not the Buckingham palace.

[Radio_Lady]

43. It's less ostentatious than many film celebrities. Politicians I have known

usually come from rich families or they have made it a success on their own.

It takes millions to run for office. David Gregory just mentioned that -- with the pre-race that is evidently gearing up many months before it used to -- this may be the first BILLION DOLLAR run for the presidency in 2008.

It would be good if we could fix it, but election reform has been broken for some time, and I have my doubts if it will ever get better in my lifetime. I'm 67... maybe you're younger.

[B Calm]

4. Edwards gained his wealth standing up for the working class.

I have a problem with republicans who are just the opposite of Edwards.

Edwards/Obama 2008

[Clark2008]

26. He did?

Really?

Name me the legislation he authored during his six years in the Senate that would have helped the disadvantaged.


{Jeopardy music}

[philosophie_en_rose]

27. He made his money helping injured people assert their rights.

That doesn't require legislation.

And you can look up the Congressional Record yourself on THOMAS. Why should anyone spend the time to educate you, when you clearly are unwilling to do on your own?

[B Calm]

45. Some prefer not to have lawyers representing them..

[Clark2008]

48. Um - I already DID, dear.

And that's why I said what I said. Your snarky attitude toward my not educating myself is funny. It's the whole reason I keep harping on his record - or lack of it - because I KNOW he didn't do much, if anything. Apparently, you're the person who needs some education because you don't know that.

I found legislation where he DID help the push for war and he helped Big Banking, but nothing really that helps the poor.

Maybe YOU need to spend some time looking for it, because I've either completely missed it or he's just blowing smoke to help himself get elected (like he always does).

[LSK]

56. which party controlled Congress when he was a Senator???

:shrug:

[hfojvt]

59. minority Senators can still sponsor amendments

the way Biden and Kerry sponsored an amendment about the famous $87 billion dollars, to track it more closely and to pay for it by reducing the tax cut that went to millionaires.

But I still wonder which Senators would have a record of sponsoring anti-poverty legislation. Do these issues have to start in the House? They are unlikely to with a Republican House.

Finally, I wonder what Clark has done in the last ten years or so to battle poverty. Did Clark make that an issue in 2004? Will he do so this time?

PS. It's kind of ironic for me to question Clark, since I was a Clark supporter in 2004. I am still wearing a Clark button on my winter coat.

[LSK]

55. your kidding right??? he made his money before he was a Senator

He was a trial lawyer where he specialized in suing Corporations for negligence.

[Pathwalker]

7. This whole thing started with a Drudge story?!?!?

Well, I bet he's thrilled! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

[Nikki Stone1]

8. Christ! Drudge again? Can people check this crap out first?

:(

[hfojvt]

12. It was right at the top of the linked story

Did not require alot of research to find the Drudge connection.

Maybe I should have put THAT in my headline "Drudge punks DU". Sad to say I fell for it too. The person writing the article knew how to push buttons for the liberal achilles heel "our distrust/hatred of the rich". One of my many heels, but I tried to catch myself on it.

[eleny]

9. Recommended

[mnhtnbb]

10. FYI--the pool is for benefit of Elizabeth, a breast cancer survivor,

and recommended exercise routine.

[hfojvt]

13. thank you. More story behind the story

but admittedly, most breast cancer patients do not have their own pool. But I bet my dad could afford one if mom needed it, and it would hardly make him an a$$hole if he bought one.

[Trajan]

11. Thanks for this ....

The histrionics of some DU members regarding this issue is a pitiful display of human weakness ....

Do you hear me DU posters of Edward's House Hatred ? ..... You are WEAK ......

Fuckin get a grip .... The man has spent his life defending the poor ....

K&R ....

[hfojvt]

14. we have, however, grown up in an age that tried to expose hypocrisy

As I tried to expose the hypocrisy and dishonesty of the person writing the article. We are not so much weak, as trigger happy and cynical.

[saracat]

15. Since when are "pools" for the rich? I have a pool and everyone I know has a pool and most aren't

rich! Whatever.

[Bucky]

16. You have a pool? When there are starving children in India, you have a pool?

My god, you must be a neocon!

[hfojvt]

17. I don't think they are talking about

one that you blow up. In my experience, private pools are pretty rare. Especially indoor pools.

[fujiyama]

18. .

[moc]

28. Inground pools are extremely common around here (m)

I'd say that 85% of the houses in our neighborhood have in ground pools. We live in an older upper middle class neighborhood in suburban Dallas.

[mnhtnbb]

31. They are more common than you think. I've known several people

with indoor pools--used to live next door to one--and there is a house with one not half mile from where I live in Chapel Hill. No, it's not Edwards!

[saracat]

39. Mine is outdoor but this is Phoenix. Nearky every house has a pool.We can't survive without one!

[TahitiNut]

37. That's the perfect way to maintain one's pespective.

Just make absolutely certain that the only people we know are one's with the same living standrads ... or better.

[knowledgeispwr]

19. K & R. Excellent and thoughtful post!

btw, do you have links to the smear article and to an article with more accurate information? I'm a little in the dark about this whole thing after stumbling upon this "Edward house mayhem" on DU this afternoon.

[hfojvt]

21. the link is at the top of the main thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=48026&mesg_id=48026

I have not seen more accurate information. I am getting my information from the picture in the article. The article puts everything in a negative light. As if it is somehow sinister for a house to not be clearly visible from the road and to have the standard 'no trespassing' signs posted.

[grmamo]

20. thanks for the thread, I began to wonder if DUers were going to let Edwards be

swiftboated.

The character of the person, his/her voting record and the actual practice of helping those less fortunate mean so much more than anything else. I don't know who I will be voting for but Edwards is up there at the top of my choices.

[hfojvt]

22. I have seen lots of defenses and counter-attacks

from the beginning, but myob does not seem like a defense of somebody who is asking for support in his Presidential campaign. Others have argued that excess is okay or completely undefinable. I disagree with that, but feel that the excess here is over-stated, and it was deliberately over-stated by people who want to bring him down. It's the same vast rightwing conspiracy that went after Clinton, because they did not like his policies. As long as Edwards advances policies that I support, then he will continue to have my support, especially when he is attacked with hype.

[uppityperson]

23. Thank you for posting this important information on The House.

[hfojvt]

30. hey UP. I am not sure about Important Information

on something that is perhaps a silly issue. But people do seem to be interested, and others seem to be more interested in bashing people who are interested in it, or bashing people who disagree with their MYOB stance or their "a hugh house is the ultimate sin" stance.

I like to think I am one voice calling bullsh*t on the Drudge linked article that is trying to smear Edwards. At least I am doing so without telling alot of other DUers to "grow up" or "get a grip" or "fu$% off". Crispini's OP though is still way better.

[uppityperson]

58. From the little bit I looked at the #s were very different.

Bullshit indeed to Drudge. If you are going to diss someone on something, at least make it be real is my thought.

[Carni]

24. OK he has a 10,000 sq foot remodeled farm house?

Oh for Christ's sake...yes, that is large but old farm houses in the south are pretty large to begin with, so that's hardly noteworthy, little alone shocking .

I am pretty disappointed though...I kind of require that all of my candidates live in a shoe (like the old lady)

[karlrschneider]

32. There was an old woman who lived in a shoe. She had so many children

she evidently didn't know what to do.



...

[Porcupine]

41. Monticello 11,000 sq, ft.

Yeah sure, It was just an old refurbished farmhouse in the middle of that thick, second growth, pine forest. That is a custom built mansion if I ever saw one.

http://www.monticello.org/house/house_faq.html#style
What is the architectural style of the house? Monticello is a fine example of Roman neoclassicism.

Some statistics, please?

* Number of rooms: There are a total of forty-three rooms in the entire structure: thirty-three in the house itself (cellar, twelve; first floor, eleven; second floor, six; third floor, four); four in the pavilions; and six under the South Terrace. The stable and carriage bays under the North Terrace are not included in these totals. The first design of Monticello had fourteen rooms total (cellar, six; first floor, five; second floor, three).
* Overall dimensions: 110' long, 87'9" wide (to outer faces of porticoes), 44'7" high (to oculus of dome).
* Height of rooms: These vary, but as examples, the Entrance Hall is 18'6" high; the North Octagonal Room, 9'10"; and second floor bedrooms, 8'0". See individual rooms featured in "The House."
* Number of skylights: thirteen (oculus plus twelve).
* Thickness of exterior walls: Also variable, from 13.5" at the northeast front to 27" in the parlor side walls.
* Square footage of living area: About 11,000 square feet, including the cellars below the house, but not including the pavilions or rooms under the terraces.
* Percentage of original window glass shown in the house today: About one-third of the window glass is original.
* Number of fireplaces: There are eight fireplaces and two openings for stoves on the main floor of the house.
(boliding mine)

[Carni]

50. And your point would be???

I think that would just enforce what I am saying...who the hell cares what sort of house, mansion or WHATEVER that Edwards has?

Last time I checked none of these candidates are poor, or living in a modest dwelling.

[Gwerlain]

29. K&R.

The house story was RW propaganda, period.

[kestrel91316]

33. Kick

[kestrel91316]

34. Kick!

[kestrel91316]

35. Kick!

[TahitiNut]

36. How can they possibly survive in such a hovel?

Only a little over 10,000 sq'? My gawd! They must be so cramped in such a small space. How much tragedy can one family handle?

[kestrel91316]

38. Kick!

[Az_lefty]

40. I saw the picture, nice house. But what asshole cut down all the fucking trees?

I don't give a rats ass about who earned how much money, but when they start raping Mother Nature it really pisses me off.
Just my opinion...
:grr:

[Porcupine]

42. Fire hazard: defensible perimeter maintenance.

actually from the picture I saw it looks like dense, second growth pine thicket. They should send crews in and pull about half the trees out of the surrounding forest as a fire safety measure.

At least that's what we are supposed to do in the West. What that translates to in an Eastern forest is beyond me.

[ClassWarrior]

53. Developers are doing this every day...

...probably with a lot less respect for the environment than the Edwards would demand from their contractor. Yet you pick the Democratic front-runner to criticize?

:eyes:

NGU.

[Egalitariat]

60. Is it OK when developers do it? Or just when Edwards does it?

nm

[ClassWarrior]

61. So when are you going to organize a "developer responsibility campaign?"

It's a perfectly legitimate, and even vital, issue: developing land and real estate responsibly in a society facing a global climate crisis. And developers these days have very little incentive to be responsible in what they do on a daily basis, in contrast to the Edwardses who, by all indications, are defenders of the environment.

So when are all the "Edwards is a hypocrite" minions going to step up and lead on the issue of irresponsible development? Or will they content themselves to just wail and whine about one guy and one home? The answers to those questions will tell us who really are the hypocrites around here.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

64. Kicking for an answer...

NGU.

[Morereason]

44. Private sports facility isn't part of the ecological footprint???

Let's be more intellectually honest. Argue merit, don't argue like fox ;).

In a real estate circular everything but the garage would be part of the calculated square footage. And although 2000 sq foot does not seem completely unreasonable for a garage it is about twice the size of a normal garage. That does not make it wrong. But it seems to me consistant to report it as extra capacity.

[Vinca]

46. "Real estate circulars" are puff pieces. The larger the house,

the greater the profit for the broker. Ask an appraiser how a house should be measured. It doesn't include much of the stuff in the inflated square footage shown on Drudge. It's a big house, but lots of people have big houses. For the record, if I ever win the lottery I'm building a barn with an indoor pool.

[Riddler]

49. It has become blatantly obvious that size DOES matter!

At least it seems to to the people who are jumping all over Edwards because of the size of his house. Forget about ability, brains, education, ideology, compassion, guts, intelligence, desire, and all the other commodities that are lacking in the asshole we have in the White House now, let's support someone who lives in the type house we think he should. That's the most absurd, idiotic crap I think I've ever read on these boards. Hell, we don't need Fox Noise and the MSM and the right-wing hatchet men anymore. We're doing their job more than adequately right here on DU by dissing someone of Edward's integrity simply because of the size and cost of the home he worked his ass off too be able to afford. At least he didn't get his money by inheritance of by stealing it from the people via government actions. No, he earned it and is a self-made millionaire, not some silver-spoon fed hypocrite republican. So either give the guy a break and stop all this nonsense about the size of his house or join the right-wing noise machine, because that's exactly how it's coming across.

My 2-cents for what it's worth.

[kestrel91316]

51. Kick!

[hfojvt]

54. "somewhere, somehow, somebody must've kicked you around some"

"...it don't make no difference to me. Everybody's gotta fight to be free, but see you don't have to live like a refugee..."

Unless, of course, you are a Democrat running for President and trying also to raise awareness/concern for the poor. Then, apparently, you are a hypocrite unless you live like a refugee.

The Tom Petty song just jumped into my head since I noticed I was getting "kicked" around some. Here's a thank you to all the kickers :hi:

[ClassWarrior]

52. Plus, I'm guessing they'll use a good portion of the "barn"...

...as John and Elizabeth's commercial office space - and probably even One America Committee's.

NGU.

[kestrel91316]

57. Kick!

[Bridget Burke]

62. We've got plenty of houses that size in Houston.

Some are in River Oaks--on an acre or two. But many are on much smaller lots. The Edwards family bought 102 acres for their house & outbuildings. If Edwards really wanted to get richer, he could sell the whole thing to developers.

Sounds as though a good bit of acreage will remain unpaved & undeveloped. Lots of people have pools.

[DuaneBidoux]

63. I don't give a damn. I am not against wealthy people.

I am just for them paying more on average than anyone else since they have reaped the benefits of the country more than anyone else.

Plenty of wealthy people have supported the causes of the working folks and the Democratic party.