$12,000 for a broken rib. Another reason the whole goddamned system sucks.

[Dr.Phool]

We don't need affordable health insurance. We need universal, single payer, government financed healthcare.

I've been in a similar situation. The insurance company probably would have paid less than $2,000. If they denied the claim, you would be stuck with the $12,000 bill.


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/30/BUG1LOTC6T75.DTL

There are 47 million people in this country without health insurance. Richmond resident Joey Palmer is one of them.

He learned how costly this can be after fracturing a rib in a relatively minor motorcycle accident and subsequently being hit with a bill for more than $12,000 from San Francisco General Hospital.

"There's no way I could pay something like that," Palmer, 32, told me. "I'm not a bum, but I'm not making a lot of money right now. How is anyone supposed to pay a bill like that?"

Iman Nazeeri-Simmons, director of administrative operations at San Francisco General, said she sympathizes with Palmer's situation.

"It's not us," she said. "It's the whole system, and the system is broken. We need to look closely at making changes and at how we can deliver care in a rational way."

(snip) rest of story

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/30/BUG1LOTC6T75.DTL

[jody]

1. Would a law limiting health care providers who accept Medicare/ Medicaid to charging

anyone without insurance no more than Medicare/Medicaid pays be effective?

[youngdem]

2. Sounds about right

I got sick about three years ago. Just woke up one morning and kept puking every few minutes until about 3 PM when my girlfriend got home and insisted we go to the hospital.

They ran a blood panel and they gave me an anti-nausea medication and some IV fluids. Doc saw me twice for a total of ten minutes and told me I likely had food poisoning and was dehydrated. I was in an ER bed for less than three hours. What is described here is the absolute extent of the medical care I received. They wrote me a prescription for an antibiotic on the way out.

Grand total was $5,400. Doctor billed me separately for $410.

Never paid it, never will.

Fucking crooks. For that amount of money you insure someone for two and a half years in Norway, preventative care included.

[Akoto]

3. We are dealing with a similar situation, but worse.

My mother had a heart attack a few months back. Just one artery was bad, the rest were fine, but they had to place a stent to fix the problem. The heart attack was stopped in process and with no significant damage, thankfully, but dealing with the billing has been a nightmare.

She ended up at the first hospital for a week. While there, they did a catheter to look into her heart and determine the problem. They found the problem artery, but only once they were inside did they inform her that they wouldn't place the stent. Nobody at the hospital was licensed to do it. So, they had to send her to another hospital.

The first hospital did take very good care of her, I'll admit, but the bill was $36k and we had no insurance. At the second hospital, my mom was there for about two days while they placed the stent. Another $36k bill without insurance.

That's all excluding other bills, of course. Prescriptions, cardiologists, testing, ambulance, etc.

Fortunately, a close friend of the family is a lawyer, and she has been helping us to negotiate. The first hospital took $5k as a settlement payment and that was it. The second hospital absolutely will not bend on their bill. They offered us one settlement of $12.5k if we paid it all at once. If we could do that, we'd have had insurance!

Oh, and the second hospital also jacked up prices into the stratosphere. Our lawyer discovered such tidbits as charging us $200 for four pills which average at $6 a piece. There are tons of examples of this on the bill.

The hospital told my mother, who earns $200 on a good week, that she could BORROW $36k to pay her bill. Who is going to loan that much money to someone with her income? Then they told her to place it on a credit card!

So, they're sending us to collections and we are now faced with the situation of my mother (recovering heart attack patient with depression) being taken to court over this. They won't get anything, as nothing's in her name, but even so.

[CrispyQ]

6. I am so sorry to read your story. What a disgraceful situation

for the citizens of the 'richest nation on the planet' to be in.

My best to your dear mother. :hug:

[Ilsa]

9. Oh man.

"Our lawyer discovered such tidbits as charging us $200 for four pills which average at $6 a piece. There are tons of examples of this on the bill."

I helped my brother negotiate his hospital bill down by pointing out disgraceful overcharges like $8 for a 2x2" piece of gause. And he worked for the hospital! They settles for about 60% of the bill with a relatively quick payout over several months.

And the clerk thinks plaing it on a credit card at 24% interest is an option? Or that she can get a bank loan? Some people are simply stupid.

I feel for your mom and your family for what you are all going through. I know this is hard, and I hope the lawyer can help work it all out for all of you.

[Akoto]

13. Thank you for the kind words.

I just don't understand why they'd save her, only to put her through this Hell knowing that she's already suffering from the heart attack. :(

I understand that they need to recoup some of their losses. We tried to offer them $7k, and hoped they would take it, like the first hospital did. They won't. In light of how jacked up the bill seems to be, I really doubt they need $36k to cover everything.

[rodeodance]

4. so many Americans are just a moment away from situations such

as in the IP.

[live love laugh]

5. Who profits? Who owns hospitals? I know pharma profits but I never

understood the hospital business model.

[texanshatingbush]

7. Bill Frist??

Isn't he somehow connected to Hospital Corporation of America?

[PA Democrat]

8. Some hospitals are still nonprofit, but it seems like more and more

are being snatched up by for-profit corporations. Bill Frist's family founded Hospital Corp. of America which is one of the largest and most profitable hospital chains. HCA also was fined $1.7 BILLION for Medicare/ Medicaid fraud. The CEO resigned but was never prosecuted for his role in the scandal.

[Frustratedlady]

10. They are supposed to be non-profit

They are about as non-profit as the churches and many charities.

My understanding of these high bills is that they are padded to take care of the walk-ins that don't have any money or insurance. Padding has been the case since the 60-70s. The hospital once tacked on a bill for $3000 for a shot on my mother-in-law's bill and wouldn't tell us (executors) what it was for. We had to call the doctor. He said the only shot he could think of that would run that high was for snake bite and he knew he hadn't given her anything like that. He then told me that the hospital tacked on extras to pay for the indigent patients. Medicare paid the bill without question.

I know of one case where a university hospital wrote of $100,000 on a cancer patient, so I know it can be done.

So many tragic stories and so little we can do.

[knitter4democracy]

12. It depends.

Here in Michigan, by our state constitution, all hospitals have to be non-profit. So, they are run by a board of directors.

Hospitals here pad everyone's bill to cover for the bills that never get paid and the insurance companies that pay out so poorly that it costs the hospital to do business with them. The ones here that I've dealt with are very willing and helpful when it comes to the bill, but not all the doctors are. I wouldn't say the hospitals are perfect on that by any means, but with the laws the way they are in Michigan, they have to be careful.

[Pugee]

15. Many are owned by companies that own hundreds, esp in small towns

I used to work at a hospital in a rural area (pop 13,000 in town) and they were owned by one company that owned 350 hospitals all over the US. The year I was there, they cut staff, cut Christmas bonuses, lowered wages. Knowing one of the doctors on the board, he told me that they made record profits that year-7 million dollars (this was in late 90s) Of course, the horrible things being done to staff and clients were ignored when the big guys came because they couldn't see past the money they were making.

[Golden Raisin]

11. But our sterling Congresspeople have gold-plated

medical insurance and are taken care of royally. Everyone of them and their ill family members should be forced to deal with the same medical/pharma nightmare familiar to every normal American citizen. But of course there's as much chance of that happening as Bush admitting he was wrong about anything.

[Holly_Hobby]

14. How about this one......

Over $20,000 to find out my spine is collapsing due to severe degenerative disk disease, causing pain in my groin.

[Venus Dog]

16. This is why I've gotten out of floor nursing - thanks Bill Frist

and all the other gop scam artists who have ruined hospitals. They cut staff to the bone and your left taking care of 15 patients on a shift - and these are some really sick people, too. If you have any kind of conscience, you work yourself to the max - burn out is why there is such a nursing shortage. Many people graduate from nursing schools, but the work environment now creates massive burn-out. Every nurse I know talks about getting out of nursing.

Sorry, this is off subject, but it's another aspect of the whole system being broken, thanks to greedy-ass rethuglicans! We need to purge this country of these vipers!!

[Zorra]

17. Voting republicans out of office is the first step in fixing the healthcare

system in the US.

If we get about 65 Democratic Senators, make a few more gains in the House, and elect a Democrat to the WH, we will have very affordable healthcare for everyone.

Republican legislators prevent Americans from having affordable healthcare.

End of story.

[LuckyLib]

18. Hospitals are the most vicious folks on earth when it comes to collecting. On a $26 bill

I received my first ever phone call from a young man who was simply vicious. I asked him what he would be like if the bill were $26,000. He said he was sending my outstanding bill to a collection agency. WTF?