Harmon case proves our worst fears: they were using wiretapping to blackmail Congress.

[pnwmom]

Regardless of what we think about Jane Harmon, the bigger issue is how extensive was the wiretapping and how many were blackmailed.

[kentuck]

1. I would say that we need to know...

whether or not there were more? I suspect there were.

[tridim]

33. I suspect it was EVERYONE.

With all that power why stop at just one?

[Fireweed247]

39. yes, everyone!

Look at what Bushco got away with- now we know how!

And we cannot wait for another election- AIPAC controls our elections
Flashback: Pelosi & AIPAC to Kucinich: drop impeachment bid & you can keep your seat in Congress
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5496371

[Psychic Consortium]

2. Files on everyone.

People bribed, threatened or blackmailed into compliance.

[hendo]

20. we haven't come that far since Hoover. NT

[DCKit]

46. The technology is a lot better.

There isn't the need for manpower when everything is done electronically.

It used to take real work, now they just sit at a computer screen and sift through conversations and text that a computer program on a massively powerful mainframe has already sifted for content.

[snooper2]

3. How was she blackmailed?

I for one am glad they wiretapped her breaking the law...ongoing multi-year investigation...


She was let off the hook by Gonzales- where was the blackmailing again?

[seemslikeadream]

5. She was let off the hook by Gonzales

Why? Why would Gonzo do that?

[Soylent Brice]

9. so she wouldn't challenge the NSA wiretapping in congress.

looks like she hopped right into their pocket. they decided not to expose her and in return gained her support.

[seemslikeadream]

14. yep

[pnwmom]

6. They caught her on a wiretap doing something she shouldn't.

Then they stopped the FBI investigation of her because they were counting on her support of the wiretapping program. And they got it.

How many other members of Congress were strong-armed into voting for Bush programs?

[snooper2]

11. So it was a quid-pro for Harmon and Gonzales...

Are you saying that the feds started a 4 year investigation into Isreal's goons doing spy work all to get her support?

[IdaBriggs]

32. No, it was bonus money. nt

[Adelante]

15. I don't see how blackmail enters into it necessarily

Jane Harmon would have supported wiretapping anyway from what we know of her. I can see Bushco interfering on her behalf very easily since they needed her, but I don't get the conclusion that she was strong-armed, never mind blackmailed. At least not from what I've read this morning.

[robinlynne]

24. They stopped a federal investigation into her activities and in return got her to support

their illegal activities. That is blackmail.

[bertman]

17. pnwmom, I'd start with Reid, Pelosi, Hoyer, Rockefeller, etc. etc.

[Snazzy]

28. she was in bed with Feith's AIPAC neocons

There's a lot going on with this.

Going through the following as a refresher personally:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:http://www.warandpiece.com/+aipac&hl=en&safe=off&start=20&sa=N

[merh]

18. Gonzales didn't prosecute because she supported the

wiretapping legislation. It isn't that hard to follow.

[MzNov]

4. the main reason for the "patriot act"

and all wiretapping for the safety of the country. I've always said this was the reason the Bush Crime Family got everything they wanted.

Dirty filthy bastards. And they will all go free and clear. For EVERYTHING.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I gate to point this out, but this was a FISA warrant

and US citizens are from time to time caught on a FISA warrant

Foreign Intelligence ... that is what these things were designed for

And they are a direct product of the excesses of the 1970s

Now the blackmail came when Gonzo killed the case

[pnwmom]

10. But wasn't this under the revised FISA program, which she helped support?

Would they have been able to tap her under the old rules?

In any case, you're right -- the blackmail came when Gonzo killed the case.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. This is just procedural in fact

but she got caught in FISA

Hell, since Patriot got passed, I have assumed that EVERY CALL I make to my parents in Mexico is listened to

I also assume that internal calls are recorded, but that is just my healthy paranoia

[TorchTheWitch]

8. As I understand it this was legal wiretapping

Ordered by a judge and all that like it's supposed to be. Both Harmon and Gonzo are guilty... Harmon for breaking the law and Gonzo for using her law breaking to blackmail her. Both of them need to do the perp walk.

I figured we all assumed that a good part of the reason (or even the only reason) for the Bush style illegal wiretapping was for blackmailing purposes. No telling how many Dems were compromised. But if those that were compromised were blackmailed then they were doing something they shouldn't have been doing in the first place.... nobody has clean hands in that situation. Personally, I've always felt that there's precious few in Congress that really give a shit about anything more than keeping there ass in their cushy chair.

[pnwmom]

12. It's also possible to blackmail people for personal situations that have

nothing to do with the job they're doing -- no one should assume that anyone who is blackmailed is guilty of something.

For example, a Congressperson could be blackmailed for committing adultery or being gay.

[Dreamer Tatum]

19. Or for being caught on tape doing illegal shit

This blackmail stuff is moronic. She's dirty, just like the others.

[Fireweed247]

40. It is even possible they set them up, then record the illegal behavior

whatever they have been doing has worked really well.

[Dreamer Tatum]

42. Then let her defend herself publicly.

Nothing to lose now...she can name names and dates.

[Fireweed247]

45. yes- they should all stand together now and tell US they have been blackmailed

by whom and for what purpose. I believe they have been controlling the entire US Congress, and they need to either stand up and point the finger or be prepared to be thrown out of office.

[Kolesar]

16. I would love some background on this

What did I miss?

[pnwmom]

22. Did you see this?

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=hsnews-000003098436&cpage=1

[Kolesar]

25. Wow

And, from 2008:

Has Bush Been Spying, Blackmailing Congressional Democrats? By Paul Craig Roberts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x340152
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2008/02/22/has-bush-been-spying-blackmailing-congressional-democrats-by-paul-craig-roberts/

[dgibby]

23. This is what you missed.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3839644

When you go to the CQ website, it takes you to page 3 of the article. It's a 4 page article, but well worth the read.

[hendo]

21. I love the responses in this thread

they are so two-faced. Everyone loves that it was Harmon who was taken down without realizing the broader implications.

[dgibby]

26. This was a legal wiretap.

Obiviously, there was enough info to convince a FISA court judge that there was a legitimate reason for the FBI to wiretap her.

What broader implications are you referring to? The fact that a member of Congress was wiretapped?

[pnwmom]

30. It wasn't a FISA wiretap, it was a NSA wiretap.

http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=hsnews-000003098436&cpage=1

Justice Department attorneys in the intelligence and public corruption units who read the transcripts decided that Harman had committed a “completed crime,” a legal term meaning that there was evidence that she had attempted to complete it, three former officials said.

And they were prepared to open a case on her, which would include electronic surveillance approved by the so-called FISA Court, the secret panel established by the 1979 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act to hear government wiretap requests.

First, however, they needed the certification of top intelligence officials that Harman’s wiretapped conversations justified a national security investigation. . . .

But that’s when, according to knowledgeable officials, Attorney General Gonzales intervened.

[TorchTheWitch]

43. looks like the NSA tap was on the suspected Israeli agent

not on Harmon. And after discovering the call the suspect Israeli agent had with Harmon, they got the FISA tap for HER...

"What is new is that Harman is said to have been picked up on a court-approved NSA tap directed at alleged Israel covert action operations in Washington."

Now, what I'm not understanding here is what the heck a "court-approved" NSA tap is considering that I thought the whole point to the NSA tapping was that court approval wasn't necessary. It's my understanding that a FISA tap is approved or not by the FISA Court, but what court would approve or not approve an NSA tap?

In any case, the NSA tap was for the suspected Israeli agent, not Harmon, and some court approved the tap of that suspected agent, so this wasn't a case of anyone illegally tapping Harmon.

I find it hilarious that this NSA wiretapping shit Harmon so vehemently approved of is what got her in this mess to begin with. Stupid, stupid, idiot congress critter probably curses (silently in her head) that crap she stood behind every waking moment since it's what smacked her broadside. Precious irony.

[NNN0LHI]

52. My understanding is it was not a suspected Israeli agent

It was someone who was working for the US government who was claiming to be an Israeli agent.

Thats the way I understood it anyway.

Don

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. The broader implications are exactly what I said

you cannot make a call without suspecting somebody is ahem listening

That said, from what was covered, she got caught in a FISA warrant

And the blackmail came when GONZO told the FBI to drop it

Serious absolutely

[pnwmom]

31. This wasn't actually a FISA warrant.

Gonzales stopped the investigation before they could request one. This was done through the NSA.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. She was caught in a call with a suspected foreign agent who was in

the list issued by a judge... aka fisa

Regardless, does not matter how you put it

there was quite a bit of arm twisting here... dare we call it blackmail?

[TorchTheWitch]

44. No, one was requested and Goss signed off on it

they just never got to the point where they could put the FISA tap in use because THAT's when Gonzo intervened.

"First, however, they needed the certification of top intelligence officials that Harman's wiretapped conversations justified a national security investigation.

Then-CIA Director Porter J. Goss reviewed the Harman transcript and signed off on the Justice Department's FISA application. He also decided that, under a protocol involving the separation of powers, it was time to notify then-House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., and Minority Leader Pelosi, of the FBI's impending national security investigation of a member of Congress — to wit, Harman.

Goss, a former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, deemed the matter particularly urgent because of Harman's rank as the panel's top Democrat.

But that's when, according to knowledgeable officials, Attorney General Gonzales intervened."


So, yes, they did request the FISA tap and Goss approved the FISA application for the tap, but then Gonzo saved Harmon's butt.

In any case, the NSA tap wasn't for Harmon, it was for the suspected Israeli agent and was court approved. Harmon got caught because she had a conversation with the suspected agent who was being tapped.... when someone's being wiretapped, BOTH sides of the conversations of whoever the wiretapped person converses with are heard. This was NOT a NSA tap on HARMON. Harmon was just stupid enough to have this conversation that got her in the soup with someone who was being legally tapped.

[stillcool]

29. The California Defense Representatives...

are an interesting lot. I don't know what to think about the wire-tapping. It seems like Jack Abramoff should be in this picture somewhere.

[underpants]

34. I and others here called that years ago

it was the only real explanation of how everything got passed with no stop.

[izzybeans]

35. This is a no win situation

we have a democratic congresswoman actively undermining the interests of the U.S. caught on a controversial wiretapping program, FISA or not. I think we are being presented with a Morton's Fork scenario and this is not a good thing politically.

No one will be happy with whatever resolution transpires and we will eat each other alive trying to unravel the paradox.

[Fireweed247]

36. We need to throw out the entire Congress

They are 'buyable' by AIPAC and able to be easily blackmailed.

Now we know why no one in the Bush administration was prosecuted for anything...and why they will NEVER be prosecuted until we throw out the entire Congress and start over.

This might explain John Conyers?? Wonder what they caught him doing...

[eShirl]

38. k&r

[spanone]

41. worst fears? wiretapping is illegal because politicians are the way they are......

i KNEW this would be the case. cheney is an evil politician and this was nations biggest cookie jar

[McCamy Taylor]

47. I'll bet a nickel that the Israeli lobbyist called her because Bush/Gonzo told him to,

So that they could get her on tape and then use the info to blackmail her.

[Fireweed247]

48. kick

:kick:

[WillyT]

49. Yep...

:kick:

[kentuck]

50. Very possible.

It must be investigated and the truth be found.

[BigBearJohn]

51. That's how J.Edgar Hoover stayed in power. He had the goods on everybody.

Don't think for a minute that they didn't do it too.
EVERYBODY's secrets. Talk about power.