I'm instructing my kid in sex-ed-- his first lesson is to listen to paradise by the dashboard light.

[trumad]

I let my kid go to an overnight church thing with a friend of his. It was his friends church and they called the overnight thing a Merge. The religion was Baptist---we're Catholics... but I said why not---can't hurt.

Well he came back today and told me that the overnight-Merge was filled with speeches regarding abstinence. OY! I was OK with it until he said they made a big deal over French Kissing--- Don't do it they instructed because it leads to other things...LOL.

Well---needless to say I LMAO about that one and felt it was time to sit my kid down with some homespun advice. Before we started I fired up the ITUNES and downloaded one of the great songs of all-time---Meatloafs, paradise by the dashboard light. I made him listen to it and then explained it.

I tend to believe that kids---teenagers always start at first and stay there for some time. When they reach second it's one of the highlights of their life. 3rd--- what to do---how to do it--- oh my.

AND then home--- I explained to my kid that he will reach home someday and when he does--- slide in safely. Protect yourself and when you score, don't brag. Respect the other player and be a gentleman.

I had no idea that religious abstinence contains a no French Kiss clause.... Too funny.

Here's the YouTube of Meatloaf and Ellen Foley.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej8Sei8HolQ

[karlrschneider]

1. I assume you know why Baptists don't screw standing up...

:D

[trumad]

3. LOL

[supernova]

7. I might regret this

but "why do Baptists not screw standing up?"

:hide:

[trumad]

9. Because people might think they were dancing.

[supernova]

13. Hee hee!

Good one! :thumbsup: :D

[jmowreader]

19. They don't want anyone to think they're dancing.

VERY old joke, not really applicable anymore.

[Wisconsin Larry]

20. Because people might think they were dancing.

A long ways to go for very little, I know but my grandparents were strict Baptists, no dancing, no cards, no ...

Your approach is right on. My limited knowledge with the abstinence approach is that it has exactly the opposite effect that the supporters were aiming for. The combination of hormones and no sex education is a recipe for disaster.

[mr_hat]

23. I'm 73 and my 5 children have begatten me ugatz.

I mean, what the fuck? All them Old Testament motherfuckers got it on like rabbits.

But just when you need a shitload of little Christians? Nothing.

I blame Jesus. Or his teaching as translated by Brother Bruce, at least. Figgered we shoulda found another church as soon as "he" hit town. Gowns...

[Maddy McCall]

2. How old's your kid?

[trumad]

4. 13

[Maddy McCall]

6. Mine, too.

If he'd have been at a church lock-in or what-not and they had discussed all of that, he'd have called me to pick him up.

I can talk to him about sex, if I do so very carefully. But he'd bolt if it were forced on him at church.

[trumad]

12. I'm proud of my kid because he can take things with a grain of salt.

[Maddy McCall]

65. That's how I hope he takes your advice.

[Straight Shooter]

5. It's a very religious song, you know. You end up praying.

:P

[trumad]

8. I just listed to it again---

the song is so great that you can listen to it 3 times in a row---and it's a long one. At the end my kid said--- he's just telling her what she wants to hear--- and I said Bingo. That's a boy for you and indeed that's a girl.

[Maddy McCall]

10. How's that?

Telling her what she wants to hear? I don't understand.

[trumad]

14. She want him to tell her he loves her

before he gets to home plate... and he does big time with a wink in his eye... mho

[Maddy McCall]

16. So you advocate him lying to a girl so that he can have sex with her?

Tell me that's not what you're saying?

[trumad]

18. Oh Maddy--- why are you trying to stir something up

of course not--- I explained to him that many guys will tell a girl what she wants to hear just to have sex and then say see ya... I told him that was wrong.

I've been with girls on the first date who wanted me to tell them I loved them before they put out. Did I? You bet...

[Maddy McCall]

21. I'm not trying to stir anything up. Just trying to understand.

I guess what I was hoping to hear is that you AREN'T telling your son that, because it surely sounded like that to me.

You still haven't clarified that, though.

Did you think that a discussion thread on this topic wouldn't result in discussion or debate?

[trumad]

24. My kid figured out that Meatloaf was telling the girl what she wanted to hear.

He was right in MHO.

Guys for a gazillion years have done just that and will my kid be faced with that situation??--- maybe. If he hops in bed with some girl he just met who needs that emotional lift if he utters "I love you" before he has sex with her... I say why not---tell her.

It's different though if you lead a girl on for a considerable amount of time only to get down her pants and then dump her.... that is clearly wrong and I have told him that.

[Maddy McCall]

26. Great guidance you're providing there.

Telling a girl that he loves her, whether to get in her pants or stay in her pants, when he really doesn't love her, is WRONG.

You advocating that position to a 13-year-old is even worse. Good luck with all that.

[SPKrazy]

28. I'll Have To Say I Agree With You Maddy

I don't think it should be advocated at any age by a parent.

I was following this thread and at first I didn't think that was what was being advocated, but...I have come to believe that it is in fact what was being told with a ;) and a nod...

[trumad]

29. Oh Maddy....

I'm telling you what I experienced and what he most likely will experience.

You meet a girl at a party and she takes you back to her place--- you're going at it and she stops you rounding 3rd and asks--- do you love me?

Love means many things Maddy and that moment it means Hell Ya!

[Shakespeare]

33. Well, then I also guess you wouldn't have a problem.....

...with a girl getting knocked up by your son accidentally/on purpose? I mean, it's just an innocent little lie, right?

Your last sentence is absolutely despicable, and I feel sorry for any girl your son attempts to date. It's not just about the lie, Trumad--it's about respect.

[trumad]

39. Your first line makes no sense....

none what so ever---unless you put it in the context of someone coming into this thread to flame for the fun of it.

[Shakespeare]

49. Oh, there's nothing fun here.

And I'm sure it made perfect sense.

[Maddy McCall]

34. Love usually has some essence of mutual respect.

It's up to parents to teach kids what's right, even if they sometimes stray from our advice.

Boasting that your kid understands your advice to mean "just tell her what she wants to hear"--well, you are setting your kid up for suffering down the road. I'd work on teaching him to respect girls, and--later--women, as more than just ejaculation receptacles, if you truly want him to know how great sex and love can be.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

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[Maddy McCall]

45. Do what?

My opposition to the advice you're giving your son is that you're teaching him to disrespect women by lying to them.

Got it? Good.

[Name removed]

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[Maddy McCall]

51. Read through your responses in your thread.

It's evident.

[Name removed]

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[Maddy McCall]

55. It's all right up there. In black and white.

I'm not lying, bending, distorting.

I don't have to. Your words are right up there.

[Name removed]

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[H2O Man]

68. No. It's not.

Not without protection. A boxing mouthpiece, at very least.

[Ino]

32. I can't get my mind around your statements here...

If he hops in bed with some girl he just met who needs that emotional lift if he utters "I love you" before he has sex with her... I say why not---tell her.

It's different though if you lead a girl on for a considerable amount of time only to get down her pants and then dump her.... that is clearly wrong and I have told him that.

It's OK to lie for a one-nighter... because the girl just needs the "emotional lift" of a lie... like it's some kind of fetish for her?

Tell me -- how much is a "considerable amount of time" before the lie becomes wrong? The third date? A month? At the moment he finally sees her as a person instead of an object, or the moment he gets tired of her?

A lie is a lie, and it's just as wrong the first time as it is the tenth time. Your careful distinction sounds like a massive rationalization. It's NEVER OK, IMO. It's rape.

This is appalling.

[Forkboy]

35. How completely unsurprising.

At least you're consistant,I'll give you that.

:puke:

[Maddy McCall]

36. Huh?

Is there a history of this kind of post? You know, the misogynistic type?

:grr:

[Forkboy]

38. Not misogynistic,just lame.

Enough that this doesn't come as a shock.

[Name removed]

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[La Lioness Priyanka]

62. that makes no sense though... what girl wants a boy to say he loves her when she just met him,

aside from maybe a 13-15 year old girl?

your advice to your son is weird.

[colinmom71]

67. Uh, lying about love is wrong in any context...

And that's the point of the song. This is a couple who, by the tale's end, absolutely hate and want to destroy each other because of exactly the dynamic that you tacitly give approval to in this post. The guy gives into the fantasy of telling the girl he loves her for that "emotional lift" and are consequently led into a miserable marriage because of that fantasy.

It's not said in the song explicitly, but the implication is that one night of sex led to unintended destruction of the fantasy (she likely got pregnant and they "had" to get married)... And so they miserably wait "for the end of time" so their existence together can end, both perhaps too stubborn and selfish to admit they made a huge mistake and ending the relationship/marriage in a respectful manner. They enjoy antagonizing one another as punishment for their manipulations that night more than they value making good choices for their family.

[KoKo]

70. GACK! Trumad....I always thought you were a "Rogue" but,

now I know it. "Slide in" and don't tell the girl anything...because it might be an "emotional thing."

AYYYYYYYYY!!!!

Whatever. I understand what you say....it's an opinion. But, it's a little "superior/macho" for some females taste. ON EDIT: I'm not looking for "safe sex" mentioning TASTE....I mean "values...decorum" (old fashioned words)

Whatever.....:eyes:

[Wiley50]

11. Oh God! I'm glad both of mine are in their 20's now

compassion

Of course compassion is a contraction
common + passion = compassion

There's no apostraphe
but that's the crux of the biscuit anyway

[Colobo]

15. I started to care about sex in 5th grade

I was... 10? Maybe 11?

[troubleinwinter]

17. Reminds me of when my daughter was 12

and went on a week-end camping event with the neighbor kids to their Evangelical church group.

Daughter came home and asked, "What is 'sin'?"

[Maddy McCall]

22. That reminds me of "Jesus Camp."

The girl with whom your daughter went to camp wasn't named Rachael, by chance?

:D

:hi:

[Berry Cool]

25. Sounds like you're teaching your kid something valuable.

Of course, you've also probably inadvertently imbued him with a lifetime passion for baseball. But seriously...

Namely, you taught him that lots of guys will lie to a girl and say they love her and will love her forever if they think they're going to get sex out of it...but all that does in the long run is create misery for both people if it's not really true. One, because he now feels he either has to live a lie or be a cad, and the other, because she feels used and unloved. Or maybe is denying the very real sexual feelings she had for him that didn't necessarily mean she wanted to spend the rest of her life with him.

Better to be honest and approach relationships with your eyes open...and realize there is more to life than just "scoring."

If I had to judge how your son will approach sex and love in the future, I'd say...Holy cow, I think he's gonna make it.

[trumad]

30. I'm getting beat up up above

by those who think that I'm advocating leading on a girl for sex.... Not what I meant at all.

[thecrow]

27. I'm upset by your "first, second, third and Home" analogy

Somewhere you might throw in a little sensitivity toward the opposite sex... you know, the faceless girl in all this.

I have two boys and we can talk about anything, but I tried to impress on them that they needn't be pushy about sex, and there was, after all, another person who was involved. And of course, I counselled on birth control methods.

[trumad]

31. sensitivity toward the opposite sex? This is what I wrote...

"AND then home--- I explained to my kid that he will reach home someday and when he does--- slide in safely. Protect yourself and when you score, don't brag. Respect the other player and be a gentleman".

Safe sex and sensitivity all rolled into one.

[WindRavenX]

42. no offense...

...where people, myself included, are getting their feathers ruffled is where you're essentially saying it's ok for a man to say he loves a woman for the purpose of getting laid.

That's sort of a, well, shitty 'tude. Nothing wrong with no strings attached lays, but it's not cool at all to drop L bombs if it isn't there. It's deceptive.

[trumad]

54. No offense taken---but that's not what I mean...

If you're about to have sex with a girl you just met...and she says, tell me you love me--- and I say OK...I love you.... what the fuck is wrong with that... It don't mean nothing and I'm sure the girl feels the same.

[WindRavenX]

59. It's lying

You don't love her. She doesn't love you. It's deception. And that's the part where many women on this thread are feeling offended because deception in sexual relations is wrong.

Sexual gratification must come with honesty. Be honest with your son and tell him hookups are fine, but never make it so one must "say" something to get into bed. Because that is where you are in the wrong. And I say this as a woman who has been lied to in the same ways you have told your son it is acceptable.

[bettyellen]

66. oh bullshit you know that she wants reassurrance that she is valued and will not be scorned

scorn.
might have to zip it up and go home, so you'll advocate saying anything to prevent that? i think that precludes respect.

[WindRavenX]

69. hey

haven't seen you around lately :hi:

[vanlassie]

40. First, second, third base is in the song

There is an interlude in the song (a classic!) where there is an announcer at a baseball game....this is what the Op is referring to w/ the baseball analogy.

Just to clarify.

vanlassie

[ninkasi]

43. Yes!

My brother pointed that out years ago, when our kids were teen-agers. It should be required listening for kids. Your advice to your kid is pretty much the same advice I gave mine, but mine are in their 40's now.

[NashVegas]

56. Oh Man. I So Hate That Song

It portrays men & women both as manipulative combatants.

If you're going to make him listen to it, I hope it's to point out what the situation should not be like.

[KoKo]

57. Did I read this right? "When you score don't brag..." ?????

What does "Score" mean to you? Bagging a babe? Screwing a babe? Shooting a Basket? :eyes:

Just wanted to ask you...I might have read you wrong. :shrug:

Quote from you:

I explained to my kid that he will reach home someday and when he does--- slide in safely. Protect yourself and when you score, don't brag.

Should he hide his .... away and not brag even though he "slid in safely" ...yet he shouldn't "brag."

[trumad]

63. baseball anaolgy

no offense intended

[ContraBass Black]

71. That's funny, because my church did a real sex-ed program,

For children and parents.

[LaurenG]

72. Locking

This is a flame fest.