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Can the president pardon himself?

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 11:53 AM
Original message
Can the president pardon himself?
From Cecil Adams at The Straight Dope:

Can the president pardon himself? Once again, there is no clear answer in the Constitution. Amar says a sitting president cannot pardon himself; ex-White House counsel John Dean says, in effect, "why not?"

While no president has ever pardoned himself, the law supports the president's authority to do so. Scholarly inquiry into the subject was provoked first by fear that Richard Nixon would pardon himself to escape Watergate; later by thought that George H. W. Bush would do so because of the Iran-Contra grand jury; and most recently by concern about Bill Clinton's problem of a possible post-Presidency indictment and trial. And while a few scholars have concluded that the president cannot pardon himself, many more believe that he can.

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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. From the US Constitution:
Edited on Sun Apr-01-07 11:57 AM by originalpckelly
"and he shall have power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."-Article II, Section II

However, that means a President cannot merely prevent her/himself from being impeached, it is unclear however, as to whether /she can or cannot pardon mere criminal matters.

Obviously, this is a major flaw in the US Constitution and it is obviously wrong for a person to pardon him/herself. I think we need to clarify this with a Constitutional Amendment, much in the way the 25th clarified the succession BS.
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meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Cheney, Gonzales, the rest of the cabinet, and lots of others can be impeached.
That means if Congress chooses to impeach any of them, Bush cannot use the power of the pardon to stop it. B-)

Now if only Congress can pull their heads out of their asses and use the power of impeachment.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yes, that's very true...
however, the criminal code is vulnerable to a king-made President.

The fact is that the US Constitution literally says that a person can pardon themselves of a criminal matter if they are President. This is the danger of giving this pardon power, and one has to wonder if there should ever be a pardon power.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Can't prevent impeachment.
Edited on Sun Apr-01-07 12:53 PM by Warren Stupidity
However the Nixon pardon established that a blanket pardon of an individual covering any crimes that may have been committed, even if those crimes had not been charged at the time of the pardon, can be executed and accepted. Bush could immunize himself and the rest of the cabal from future criminal prosecution, much like the argentine and chilean military leaders immunized themselves as they negotiated their exits.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. By having an AG such as Gonzales, Bush has a very effective
defense against needing a pardon.

Bush will never be charged with a crime by Gonzales' Just Us system.

If Gonzales steps down, another Federalist will take his place and the same defense against the dark pardon still applies.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-01-07 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. He can be impeached the same day he does it.
Edited on Sun Apr-01-07 04:13 PM by pat_k
No legalistic interpretation of our law or our Constitution can trump the reality of our will and our vision of the True America we see embodied in our Constitution. The power is 100% ours -- through our representatives in Congress -- to set the limits on officials in the executive or the judiciary.

Contray to what the fascists have almost all of us believing, power is not shared equally among the branches. With the power to impeach, we put a big, fat, thumb on the scales in favor of Congress: the body closest to the people and most responsive to our will.
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