My $1,200 three-hour hospital stay.

[Mike 03]

Some recent discussions have reminded me of something that happened to me ten years ago when I was living in Los Angeles--if it were to happen today, it would no doubt have cost $2,000.

One night I was working at my company and I simply started vomiting uncontrollably for some unknown reason. I couldn't stop, to the point that I was worried I would pass out, so I called 911. Nothing like this had ever happened to me before. I panicked and called for an ambulance.

The ambulance arrived, and they infused me with fluids and I felt much better and asked to be let to go home, but they insisted I had to go to the hospital.

I left a message for my boss on the answering machine explaining why there was vomit all over the office and went with the paramedics to the hospital. It was about a three or four block trip. They probably made the right decision after all, because I was so weak.

Ambulance trip, three blocks: $800

At the hospital I was examined and they felt I just had food poisoning. I don't remember what tests they did, because I was so out of it. My ex-wife came to stay with me, and she drove me home and got me some Gatorade, which helped more than the doctor did.

Three hours in the emergency ward: $400

For the record, I was insured. I don't know if it is proper to name the insurance company, but believe you me, I severed my insurance with them after that. They paid for some of that night, but damned little. Most of it came out of my pocket.

This is the thing: I love and respect the paramedics and doctors. This is not their fault. They deserve to be paid well for everything they do, and I don't know what might have happened to me if I had not been able to call upon them, or they had not given me the electrolytes I needed that stopped me from puking endlessly and passing out. And my GP was the greatest doctor in the world, and he constantly lamented how insurance-related red-tape and bureaucracy had destroyed his love for practicing medicine.

This is an insurance issue. What is it worth if it doesn't pay for even rare, extreme emergencies?

I was an extremely healthy, athletic person when this struck me out of the blue for no apparent reason. I had no risk factors, no bad habits, but in spite of that, insurance served no purpose whatsoever.

After that I really lost faith in health insurance, although my parents made me get it and paid for it, and it did come in handy when I was mauled by a dog at the animal shelter where I volunteered, but that's another story...

[Deja Q]

1. That is the reform which is needed.

Insurance companies fleece. Your record looks great... but then comes one incident and your rates triple or quadruple because you're a risk.

And insurance companies buck the laws of business: They find any ways imaginable to bypass downturns. They provide a service. They're supposed to lose from time to time just like everyone else.

And then if somebody wants reform, the insurance companies mewl and bleat "If you take away our money, where's our incentive??" (Gee, like how nobody wants to get into computer science or any other field anymore thanks to offshoring and the abuses within...)

The system IS broken. Wipe the slate clean for all or do real reforms. Either way it's going to take time but too many genuinely good people are being hurt by genuinely bad people. That or I need reassurance that the insurance system is just fine the way it currently is and everything else is the problem.

[Hissyspit]

2. Health Insurance is a scam. nt

[Mist]

6. I think of it as an extortion racket. Same difference, I guess. nt

[izquierdista]

20. Insurance is a scam

Leave it to capitalists to take a socialist concept (from each according to his risk rating, to each according to his loss history) and turn it into a machine to make capital grow.

[HillbillyBob]

3. An important note, having known personally EMTS and other healthcare

personnel and people who worked in the insurance and HMO industries the people who are making the money are the upper management and investors.
The low guys only get about the same salaries as us little people get because they are little people to the management etc.
Too the equipment is horrid expensive, its been a long time like 25 years, but I remember our volunteer fire department having to raise something like 90,000$ for an ambulance and that was then.

[RubyDuby in GA]

4. My 2 year old son in January -

On Jan. 2, he had a fever of 104.1. That's pretty high so we took him to the ER after talking to a nurse's hotline. WE get there and proceed to wait while they check us in. That took 45 minutes - for a toddler with a pretty high fever. I paid the $150 ER co-pay and they take us to the triage area. They give him a double shot of motrin and send us back out to the waiting room. 8 hour later - YES 8 FREAKIN' HOURS LATER - they take us back for him to see a doctor that maybe was in the room for about 2 minutes. He was barely looked at. The doctor "determined" that he had a bug going around and gave him a shot of antibotics.

The whole bill for the night according to what we got from Cigna was about $950.

AND HE WASN'T EVEN DIAGNOSED PROPERLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He had strep and was properly diagnosed when we took him to his peditrician the next morning.

Cigna paid all but $164 of it. The hospital has the fucking nerve to bill us for that crap. I've given everyone there a good piece of my mind and told them they will get that $164 in 8 installments - one for each hour my baby had to wait for that POS service.

[midnight armadillo]

21. How about 8 hours in an ER waiting room...with a kidney stone!

If I ever meet the nurse who mis-triaged my wife in that episode, well, there's going to be an ass-kicking. Especially since this was 4 days after my wife was in the ER waiting with severe norovirus, dry heaving into a bucket...for 9 hours!! We paid a $500 co-pay for each ER visit too.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. Why didn't you give him motrin at home to see if the fever responded?

[RubyDuby in GA]

28. We did. Gave him one dose and it went down a bit that evening but spiked back up

That's when we called the nurse's hotline and the rest is history...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. That seems reasonable.

That wasn't clear in your original post. Then again it may have been clear and I may have missed it, if so my apologies.


David

[RubyDuby in GA]

32. No problem! I don't think I mentioned that in the original post.

I've read your posts before and know that you really know your stuff, so I should have been more clear! :)

[dugaresa]

35. i had something similar happen, however my kid was admitted

imagine a 18mos old with a fever that motrin could not control. I was motrin-ing and using tylenol per the dr. Finally the cough set in and off to the ER we went.

They made me wait and the child was burning up and coughing and I told them that she was asthmatic. I went to the Triage nurse after 1 hour of waiting with an asthmatic 18mos old and asked for an ambulance to the nearest children's hospital. They were offended and said.."bring her over". the fever at this point was 105 and they were freaking out.

The cough worried them more, and they were unable to start an IV. 3 Pediatric specialists were called to the ER and one took me out into the hall and explained that if they could not break the fever and if they could not control the cough...they would need to send her by helicopter to the children's hospital. In the end it was whooping cough and strep and she was in the hospital for 3 days. She had her shots but some kids at the daycare had not had their vaccines and my kid caught a mild form but when you have asthma, whooping cough isn't mild.

They never billed me for the co-pay, i think they knew the had royally messed up in the ER.

[RubyDuby in GA]

36. I wonder if they think all parents of young children are just overreacting and ignore us?

You sound like you were far more polite about it than I would have been. A 105 fever? I don't care how busy you are, you treat a sick child quickly!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

40. Unfortunately I think that is often the case.

Sometimes it is the case but that's not the rule most parents are fairly prudent with trips to the ER. I have noticed the first time young parents have a tendency to overreact a little bit more than other parents, you can't blame them though.


David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Fever and Respiratory Distress should have been triaged to the head of the line.

It seems they did screw up royally. Glad everything worked out. I nearly died of whopping cough as a kid, it's bad stuff.


David

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. You got off cheap.

[glitch]

8. Agreed. ambulance for 5 blocks + 2 hours in ER = $4000.

Where they referred me to a specialist (broken wrist): $10,000 more.

[Warpy]

7. Health insurance has become an illusion

because with profit the major goal, health care delivery has simply gotten lost.

All people with insurance have these days is the illusion they won't go bankrupt if they get sick.

[Inspired]

9. My husband got 3 stitches on his thumb. Our out of pocket was $600.00.

And that was with a good health care policy. It's a crime.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. I just got a bill from my dentist for $350 for a checkup

and I have insurance. I went for the checkup in December and paid my co-pay. Dentist said I had a zero balance. Now all of a sudden I owe $350.

For a checkup.

I guess I need to call and try to straighten it out. I was too mad when I got the bill to call.

[appleannie1]

11. Be thankful. My 23 hour stay cost over $72,000. And your assessment

of health insurance is correct. It is what has driven up the cost of health care.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blaze]

13. ...

:eyes:

[enlightenment]

14. Please back that statement up with some facts -

dear.

[Texasgal]

15. What a pantload.

I am an RN and a former triage nurse. NONE of what you pay OVER your insurance pays for folks that have no insurance, if that was the case no one would get BILLED.

MORON.

[Old Hob]

17. where does the money come from to pay for the uninsured then out of curiosity?

surely someone somewhere somehow is having to pay for the uninsured?

[Texasgal]

18. where do you think it comes from?

Tax dollars.

[Old Hob]

25. then why do we keep hearing about uninsured people going bankrupt from medical costs

if the tax payers are picking up the bill? Is there any current data which breaks down how much of healthcare is uncompensated and how much of that is covered by the Gov. I keep seeing a 2001 report but I'm not seeing anything that reflects recent US realities. Also, I see hospitals all over my area laying off staff like never before and I have to wonder why that is if the tax payer is compensating the hospitals dollar for dollar for their uncompensated care costs. Along the same lines, Google reveals this: "Employment in health care, the only major industry outside the federal government still adding jobs, is succumbing to the recession.

In the latest sign, the president of New York City Health & Hospitals Corp. wrote Friday to community organizations as well as employees and unions at its 11 hospitals and four nursing homes, saying the agency will lay off more workers even after slashing 400 jobs last month"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123958719598112571.html

I believe that the costs of the uninsured are absolutely being passed along to the insured both directly and indirectly.

[wildflower]

16. All the more reason for us to have universal health care

So all can get to see a doctor without having to go to the E.R.

[uppityperson]

19. oh bs

[WI_DEM]

22. In other words the hospital stay (or ER) was $400 which is expected the real cost was the ambulance.

[paulsby]

23. i'm unusual. my policy frigging r00ls. great insurance plan

my employer pays 100% of it.

i went to the ER (my old plan. we got a new one this. old one was excellent also). got several tests (ultrasound, ekg etc.), three shots of dilaudid (turned out i had gallstones), etc.

entire thing cost me $50.

later, when i had surgery to remove my gallbladder. total cost: $5

the scripts cost me $5 per, also.

seriously.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

24. Surely you realize you didn't have to go to the hospital. You could have said no I feel fine now.

At least I hope most people are aware of that, if they don't they should.

David

[comrade snarky]

30. Ever had a bad case of food poisoning?

It's fairly disorienting...
After an hour or so of constant vomiting (and other fluid expulsion I wont get into) if paramedics had told me I needed to go outside without my pants and lay in the front yard under the sprinkler to get better, I'd probably have mumbled OK and shuffled out the front door.

Sure you're always free to ignore medical advice but knowing when that's a good idea when you're not in a normal state? That's something else.
I really don't think you can blame the OP for following the advice of the EMTs.

on edit:
I have got to start checking time stamps before I reply....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. The OP said he was fine after the fluids and asked to be let go home.

That sounds like alert and oriented to me. I know those ambulance guys are good at convincing people they are going to die a miserable death in minutes if they refuse to go to the hospital, that doesn't change the fact the you have the right to refuse treatment and transport. I have attempted to talk patients into going to the hospital, very rarely and only in serious cases.


David

[JanMichael]

37. what about implied consent?

Those people still get big ass bills after it's all said and done too.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. He was alert and oriented, implied consent is for patients incapable of expressed consent.

The ambulance services here can't charge without transporting.

David

[Quantess]

27. "...ten years ago"

I was about to ask how you got out so cheaply.

[sakabatou]

31. See this is why I have a dog tag

that says NOT to call the ambulance for my seizures.

[BamaGirl]

33. It sucks

My husband made a 1/4 mile trip in an ambulance last year and that was 1 grand. I never saw the ER bill (it went straight to his employer), but I'm sure it was outrageous. (He had a CAT scan, a ton of drugs, and lots of stitches.) Going to the ER shouldn't be scarier than what sent you there in the first place, ya know?

[xchrom]

34. a few year years ago my dad fell and broke his hip.

his ride to the hospital -- two miles away -- was two thousand dollars.

the insurance company would only pay half because they dad didn't really NEED the ambulance ride to the hospital -- i couldn't have lifted him and carried to my car -- it would have near killed him for the pain.

we paid 500 of that last thousand and told them to kiss our multiple asses.

the subsequent hospital stay and the visit to the ER -- many many thousands of dollars. many.

[Cresent City Kid]

38. Bringing down costs will be an uphill battle

I've read similar posts to this, and posted some, and usually someone will say that costs are high to cover those who don't pay their bills when they use the emergency room. I personally believe that costs are high because too many high salaries are baked into the pie. I'm okay with the hands-on people being payed well, the doctors, nurses, paramedics and so on. It's the hospital administrators, insurance company executives and the like that are making our system unsustainable.

People who don't pay do have an effect, costs are raised high enough to make sure the high end salaries are paid in full.

We let this happen when insurance was more affordable to employer based plans and individuals. People didn't feel the costs directly, so nobody got outraged as costs started rising. The insurance companies started feeling it, and raised premiums to make up the difference. They could have lobbied for lower costs, but that was not as easy as simply charging more, and the books balanced either way. The buck was passed to employers, and soon after on to us directly. There's nobody for us to pass the buck to except the government, which turns out is still us. We can't do that at current costs.

We won't pay less until pencil pushing fuckwads making 6 figures settle for less.

[this_side_up]

43. Costs are also high due to fraudulent

billing and not so ethical doctor's orders even before seeing the patient
coupled with the desire to keep those operating rooms filled all the time,
when the patient would do just as well with non-surgical methods.

[imdjh]

44. Why can't they have ER rules instead of a blanket deterrent?

I understand why you have to pay (in my case $500) to go to the ER. Because there are people who would indeed go every whipstitch, or takes their kids every whip stitch and honestly believe that "better safe than sorry." My sister did it with her kids, and she and her husband paid for the privilege as they should.

But most people know when something is really wrong. There will be disagreements over whether it was justified or not, but I think my proposal has some merit. Doctors at the ER should be able to sign off on a "justified" for which you will not have a co-pay, or a "no cause" for which you will be charged the $500 and you can argue with your insurance company about it.

And yes, even with NSP there has to be some deterrent to people abusing emergency services.