Arlington VA in a perfect example of nanny-statism

[paulsby]

courtesy: volokh.com

David Bernstein report:My home county of Arlington's Department of Human services has published what it calls "the minimal acceptable standards for the supervision of children developed by professionals in collaboration with the community." According to these guidelines, eight-year old children "Should not be left alone for any period of time. This includes leaving children unattended in cars, playgrounds, and yards." I not only played in my back yard unattended at age eight, but, if I remember correctly, was free to wander around my neighborhood unaccompanied by an adult so long as I came home before dark, and in New York City (Queens) no less. Somehow, I survived unscathed, as did each and every one of my peers.



http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/HumanServices/services/family/HumanServicesServicesfamilyHowYoung.aspx
(link to arlington's county's minimal accepted standards)

imo, Arlington County can piss off!

What a bunch of nanny-state idiots. Fwiw, when I was 8, i did all sorts of stuff on my own and with my friends in the neighborhood.

[bbinacan]

1. Agreed. n/t

[YOY]

2. I'm in Arlington, VA.

Never heard of anyone getting in trouble for this.

Nanny-state nothing...it's just words that are unenforced. Part of me wonders if it was written to appease someone or to prevent some situation they legally could not handle any other way.

It's a really nice place actually.

[paulsby]

5. wonderful, but...

do you believe that leaving an 8 yr old alone for ANY period of time does not meet "the minimal acceptable standards for the supervision of children"

Arlington county does.

[YOY]

6. It's not enforced.

So apparently they forgot they believe it.

[paulsby]

9. so frigging what?

lots of stuff govt. publishes has no legal bearing.

it doesn't mean it;'s still not completely WRONG for a govt. body to claim that parents are not meeting a minimal standard of parenting by doing something that DOES meet a minimal standard of parenting.

if they published something saying "black people aren't as good parents as white people" would you be ok with that because there is nothing to be ENFORCED?

get real

[YOY]

10. Well if you'd like to come up to Arlington and contest it...go for it.

Until then, I will continue to let my daughter play in my small enclosed backyard while I am in the kitchen or living room unafraid of Johnny law. Call me a rebel.

Of course if you want to fear and riddicle the dreaded nanny state that is Arlington, VA based on one unenforced silly law, by all means. Best damn place I ever lived...great schools, safe, diverse, close to work, and high standard of living.

"black people aren't as good parents as white people"...compared to a silly thing like this? Come on...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. She's alone out there?

You are SO busted ........

:sarcasm: <------------------------------------- just in case

[YOY]

14. Well Jorge and Marta, Charlotte, and Patrick and Jennifer are in the houses in the back facing the

Angie is next door and the other side is Tanya. We're pretty well covered with good neighboors.

[paulsby]

13. how about

single mothers "do not meet the minimal acceptable standard of parenting"

etc?

it's wrong. your attitude is "since there is (apparently) no legal bearing to their announcement, i don't care"

that is ridiculous.

here's another hint. govt. passes resolutions all the time. these also have NO enforcement angle or legal bearing.

would you be ok with govt. passing any resolution then? after all, it's not going to get the cops sent to your house if govt. passes a resolutions saying "YOY is a crappy mother"

these are frigging guidelines put out by a govt. agency (thank god for idiot social scientist nannystaters) that attempt to tell people what the MINIMALLY ACCEPTABLE standards for parenting are.

and they are wrong.

hth

[YOY]

16. Then continue to complain.

I am sure Tanya, the single working mother next door who will never have her child taken away is grateful for your complaints and concern.

On closer thought, most likely this was created to make sure that Childcare (older childcare included) maintains a few standards.

This area is loaded with MANY child care facilities...some of which I am sure are subpar.

[paulsby]

20. also note

that when govt. agencies promote guidelines such as this, they are relied upon and referenced by such people as social workers, etc.

this is much like the hysteria surrounding some aspects of child safety (remember stranger abductions and sexual abuse by strangers upon children is much rarer than those by people the kid knows, and ...

when a govt. agency promotes guidelines, those guidelines have the imprimateur of govt. behind them

so, yes i will continue to complain when govt. does stupid stuff. especially when that stupid stuff maligns legal and responsible behavior.

[YOY]

22. "when that stupid stuff maligns legal and responsible behavior."

For the last time: THERE IS NO MALIGNMENT! IT IS NOT LEGALLY ENFORCED!

These are unenforced words on a piece of virtual paper that were written by some beurocrat with nothing better to do.

[paulsby]

25. for the last time

look up the meaning of the word MALIGN

it does not mean what you think it means

here's a hint: saying an action does not meet minimally acceptable standards MALIGNS that behavior.

i'll try to use easier words next time

oy!

[Tangerine LaBamba]

27. Why are you upset about this?

I'm curious..............

[MADem]

37. So am I.

Particularly since the profile says Seattle WA, and the information at the link is presented as guidelines, not law or ordinance. I'm curious as to the origin of this poutrage (acceptable use of the term in this instance, I would say).

I remember that several years ago, a nutcase stabbed a little kid in Mt. Vernon, VA who was playing in grandma's front yard--I think he killed him. Grandma was right there, though, "supervising" so that wouldn't have helped the situation. The guy was off his meds and highly paranoid. He "escaped" in a cab and was caught close by the Pentagon, IIRC. That might have been the genesis of the "guidelines."

[Tangerine LaBamba]

41. That was in Alexandria, VA,

and the boy was in his front yard in a densely populated neighborhood, a safe neighborhood. Yes, it was done by a mental case who is still in custody, having come up at least once for a competency hearing, which did not go in his favor. That was a beautiful little boy. A real horror story.

Here in Alexandria, we don't have many murders, so this was especially horrifying.

My sources tell me that the poster who was so "upset" about those guidelines - meaningless as they are - is a Ron Paul supporter, a new kind of troll. Libertarian, or whatever they fancy themselves, and that's what the "poutrage" (a new one on me) is all about.

I really should check profiles when someone is that off the wall, but, hey, it's only a message board ....................

[YOY]

29. Of the top of my head "Does damage to/insults..."

And now I look it up: m"align
Verb
to say unpleasant and untrue things about someone; slander "

OH SNAP! I was right...now I'll use it in a sentence: Thanks for insinuatingly maligning me by pretending that I am ignorant!

I smell a Paultard...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

17. They are GUIDELINES

That's all they are, the kind of stuff you use to wrap fish.

Really.

[paulsby]

21. they reference MINIMALLY ACCEPTABLE

standards.

thus, they establish that leaving an 8 yr alone "for any period of time" is BELOW the minimally acceptable standard of behavior in parenting, according to Arlington county

that is complete and utter crap.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

26. Crap, yes, but also unenforceable ......

Keep that in mind .................

[madinmaryland]

40. Beyond being blatantly obvious, what the fuck is wrong with the government

commenting on it. It's NOT a freaking law, and you don't have to abide by it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. Hey ............

Be nice.

You're getting a bit excessive in your example, and you might want to consider why you're so upset about this..................

[paulsby]

15. i'm not upset

i'm just unpleasantly surprised by the lack of logic and the idea that govt. can publish guidelines about whatever it wants as long as they have no enforcement angle.

sorry, but when a govt. agency publishes blatantly wrong standards of acceptable parenting, i protest.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. They can ........

They're nothing but "make work" projects, with absolutely no bearing on anyone's lives.

Guidelines. Not enforceable. Essentially meaningless.

[paulsby]

19. nobody said they couldn't

i said what they are doing is wrong.

i am not saying they can't do it.

this is like a free speech argument.

i say person X is saying hateful, factually incorrect stuff

you say "well, he can do that. he has a right to"

i say "i know. i'm not saying he CAN'T do it, i'm saying i protest what he is doing"

govt. theoretically represents us.

if some talk radio person said this, i could not care less.

if govt. says this, i say - um, no. shut the hell up and don't spread false ideas about minimally acceptable standards of parenting.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

28. Then write to Arlington County,

and let them know how you feel and think about all this.

But hectoring people about it on a message board because they don't share your view is kind of silly.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

7. I'm in Alexandria, and, yeah, Arlington IS nice -

But that document - the part I read - is just absurd.

This part caught my eye:

"# All youths, including teens, must have a safety plan worked out with the parent/caretaker including:
#

1. How to access a parent or other responsible adult at all times (knowing the adult’s whereabouts and telephone number).
2. What to do in case of an emergency.
3. Guidelines for acceptable behavior."

I'd like to see someone busted because they didn't leave their kid with "guidelines for acceptable behavior."

Written by some mindless bureaucrat ........................

[YOY]

8. and not enforced. All lipservice...to someone or a "workaround" law.

n/t

[WeDidIt]

3. I ran wild in the woods at 8

with my brother, who was 7 at the time.

[arcadian]

31. I was hot-wiring cars and breaking into houses at age 8.

[onethatcares]

38. we must have been twins

remember going to the hardware store for some salt peter and mixing it with sugar? Breaking into the cigarette guys truck and stealing the Marlboro reds?

Hope life has been good to you.:hi:

[arcadian]

42. I thought I left you for dead beside the train tracks

That one time.

[onethatcares]

44. jeez, was it only one time?

I coulda sworn it was at least 3x

[datasuspect]

43. raiding liquor cabinets and smoking butts from car ashtrays at age 8

[ColbertWatcher]

4. Where did you get that term "Nanny-state-ism"? n/t

[NeedleCast]

23. I'm right next to Arlington

Never heard of this being enforced but I agree that it's pretty ridiculous. Like you, by age eight my friends and I were ranging miles from our house in a busy suburb of Austin, Texas. No Queens by any means, but still a pretty standard city. I was taking care of my four year old sister on occasion, and I was pretty self reliant.

And this is still pretty much standard practice for most kids throughout the world. The US sets the (dubious) standard in "OMG won't someone think of the children!" over-protectionism.

[FLAprogressive]

24. stop telling parents how to raise their children......

[MADem]

30. "Remember, these are only guidelines. "

That's what that flyer says--these are ONLY guidelines. They're not regulations or laws.

The city can't enforce these 'suggestions.' It's simply a starting point.

[anonymous171]

34. That's what I was going to say. It's only "Nanny state-ism" if they try to enforce any of that. nt

[cali]

32. My son not only played unattended, he was splittling kindling

unattended with his sharp little hatchet at age 8. He loved that job.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

33. Then stay the hell out of it if you think so. Speaking from experience, it was...

a wonderful place to live.

David Frum on the blogroll of The Volokh Conspiracy ... classic.

[scarletwoman]

35. "courtesy: volokh.com" Courtesy? Do you realize you're quoting a rabidly right wing site?

Shame on you for bringing this right wing crap to DU!

[renegade000]

36. How dare the government try to provide information to parents!

I mean seriously? It says right on the website, "These guidelines represent the minimal acceptable standards for the supervision of children developed by professionals in collaboration with the community. Remember, these are only guidelines. There may be situations when it is not safe to leave a child unsupervised."

I doubt anyone really even goes and reads them unless they are curious about what experts think about this parenting topic.

Having been born and raised in Arlington, VA, this just makes me like the Arlington County government more. I mean, between the great infrastructure, public schools, public transit, and environmental initiatives, they also maintain a website to inform people about their concerns regarding everything from parenting to healthcare?

http://www.arlingtonva.us/Departments/HumanServices/services/health/HumanServicesServicesHealthPublicHealth.aspx

OMG, they're saying people ought to:
-Get a flu vaccine
-Wash your hands
-Cover your cough
-Stay home when sick

NANNY-STATE!

[MrScorpio]

39. Damn, I grew up running around alone in DETROIT, for Gawd sakes!

I really like Arlington, I used to live there for 7 1/2 years. In comparison to where I used to live, Arlington is about as dangerous as an empty shoe box.

This is just too much over reaction and fear mongering.