"Carve deeper next time"

[babylonsister]

Firing tenured teachers can be a costly and tortuous task


A Times investigation finds the process so arduous that many principals don't even try, except in the very worst cases. Jettisoning a teacher solely because he or she can't teach is rare.

By Jason Song
May 3, 2009


The eighth-grade boy held out his wrists for teacher Carlos Polanco to see.

He had just explained to Polanco and his history classmates at Virgil Middle School in Koreatown why he had been absent: He had been in the hospital after an attempt at suicide.

Polanco looked at the cuts and said they "were weak," according to witness accounts in documents filed with the state. "Carve deeper next time," he was said to have told the boy.

"Look," Polanco allegedly said, "you can't even kill yourself."

The boy's classmates joined in, with one advising how to cut a main artery, according to the witnesses.

"See," Polanco was quoted as saying, "even he knows how to commit suicide better than you."

The Los Angeles school board, citing Polanco's poor judgment, voted to fire him.

But Polanco, who contended that he had been misunderstood, kept his job. A little-known review commission overruled the board, saying that although the teacher had made the statements, he had meant no harm.


more...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachers3-2009may03,0,5765040,full.story

[Captain Hilts]

1. Cal has the oldest average age of teachersin the country. At least it did 5 years ago.

Because of Prop 19, salaries for new ones are low, so there are fewer new teachers than in other states.

[Glorfindel]

2. Well, gee whiz...the guy's a teacher, right?

If he can't teach a student the proper way to commit suicide, what good is he? And what better way to spend the public's money than to pay the salary of a mocking, snarky "educator"? :sarcasm:

[HughBeaumont]

3. And, hey, just when I think humanity and kids can't get any shittier . . .

. . . along comes another article to tell me they are.

Shit like this only strengthens my decision to neuter myself. It's already bad enough my stepson goes to school with people who've learned absolutely nothing about Columbine and other incidents. Why bring another kid in this world who will in all likelihood, be an outcast and treated like ass by his supposed "peers"?

You're in school to LEARN, not to establish a fucking pecking order or to make other's lives miserable, goddamnit.

[maseman]

10. My wife is an inner-city school teacher

I must say that the people in her building are saints to deal with the kids, the problems, the lack of respect, etc. I believe, like politics, teachers enter with the best intent. I also believe sometimes after years of dealing with the kids, the school system, the state (NCLB bullshit) that some teachers break.

There should be a system in place to pyscologically deal with these broken teachers and flush them out. This guy is a reall asshole for what he said. Kids are mean enough to each other...they don't need it from teachers also.

[Buzz Clik]

4. Put it in reverse: a student makes a suggestion to a teacher that the teacher kill himself/herself:

That student would have been permanently expelled and forced to change schools.

[AwakeAtLast]

9. Not in my district

The students would have been sent to a counselor, then maybe gotten in school suspension.

[Buzz Clik]

13. ... which is still far greater punishment than this teacher will ever see.

[Joe the Revelator]

15. Bullshit...this is in the paper's this teacher's career is over.

[Buzz Clik]

19. He kept his job but his career is over? What does that mean?

[BlueIris]

5. High school faculties are such a haven for abusive sociopaths.

Before you flame, yes, I understand that not every high school faculty has this problem and that teachers save the world every day. But then there are guys like this, who are far more common than not.

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. After the stories I heard about the high schools in my county on Friday evening...

I'm beginning to wonder if they are much more than detention centers.

Most of the rules seem reasonable enough, but the enforcement is based on humiliation and ridicule. I've been out of school for a couple of decades making me an old fart I suppose, but there is just no reason to use public shame as a disciplinary strategy.

Don't even get me started on the farce that is "Zero Tolerance."

[Triana]

8. Public humiliation was par for the course as discipline in the 70s. I was subject to it...

...at least once. I'd hate to think it got more commonplace. Maybe it has.

Ugh.

It DESTROYS a kid's self-esteem. Which, in turn leads to all sorts of other issues in their lives both in the present and in later years.

It's EXTREMELY damaging. NOT the way to discipline.

[Pacifist Patriot]

14. Technology changes are a factor.

I remember having hall passes as an elementary student, but not as a high school student. The kids in our local high schools now have to get a teacher to agree to give them a hall pass in order to attend to the calls of nature. Which as we know are not always predictable.

The hall passes today are electronic beepers. When the time frame set by the teacher expires, the beeper goes off in the child's hand as well as at a source in the classroom. (One would think, disrupting the classroom for the sake of one child who is taking a little longer than deemed necessary in the loo)

That's not necessarily a disciplinary measure, but give me a break. Can't a responsible adult tell which children are abusing the courtesy of excusing themselves to go to the restroom and deal with this with the individual? Kids who are really skipping class by asking for bathroom passes aren't likely to be swayed by a stupid beeper.

Seems ridiculous and disruptive to me.

As a side note, one of my neighbor's daughters was humiliated a few years ago when she was a junior. She is an honor student, never in any trouble, the kind of kid most teachers dream of getting in their class. She had to go to the bathroom one day, but the teacher didn't feel like excusing her saying she should have gone during break. (No kidding, but sometimes these things happen.) The poor girl ended up wetting her pants. A 16 year old peeing in class. And don't you know her peers never let her forget it.

Common sense and trust is just gone.

[greguganus]

7. Who the hell is this review commission? Kick them off or fire them too. n/t

[cagesoulman]

12. Here are some of the culprits

72. I would hope that the people of Los Angeles remember these three names, Norberto Perez from LA Unified School District, Arthur Eddy from Baldwin Park Unified, and Administrative Law Judge Eric Sawyer. These three poor excuses for human beings went to bat for Carlos Polanco, the Virgil Middle School teacher who thought it amusing to chastise a young student who had attempted to commit suicide. I would hope the collective conscience of the people of Los Angeles will not let this heartless decision stand.
Submitted by: Bob
5:19 PM PDT, May 2, 2009

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachers3-2009may03-gb,0,32247.graffitiboard?slice=8&limit=10

[cagesoulman]

11. I like this comment by a reader:

"134. I have always felt that Michael Moore should do a film about the Los Angeles Unified School District. As a ten year employee of the district, I have witnessed things that no human being should have to see. I have often talked to my friends and tried to explain what I encounter on a daily basis, but it is simply not possible to express the reality of it. Most egregiously is the behavior of the administrators, who have fallen back on basic fundamental intimidating tactics to frighten teachers into doing their bidding. Questionable legal tactics are practiced that may appear unethical but within the scope of district policy.
Submitted by: Vashkan
2:28 PM PDT, May 2, 2009"

[Odin2005]

16. If other DUers wonder why I have such a low opinion of teachers, this is why.

:puke:

[Hannah Bell]

17. because this teacher is typical of all teachers, just as doc mengele is typical of all doctors.

[Odin2005]

18. Most of my high school teachers were incompetent boobs, I'll put it that way.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. I'd carve him a little deeper.

[MadHound]

21. Oh yip fucking ee, let's take an isolated case and use it to bash all teachers with again

What, it must be the first Sunday of the month right, regular as clockwork.

And while you're using an isolated anecdotal case to bash the teaching profession, let's ignore the hundreds of thousands of teachers across the country who are doing a fantastic job, teaching children in situations that are substandard, without proper materials, without decent pay, without the benefit of parental support.

No, let's just bash teachers based on isolated, anecdotal incidents.

Hmm, where is that thread concerning the fact that Americans are anti-intellectual? I think that it somehow applies here, since it seems that so many DUer's are anti-education also.

[babylonsister]

22. I didn't post this to bash teachers, I posted this because

I was appalled at what this teacher said. Big difference.