Proof Cops Can Be Quite Decent, And Why We Shouldn't Judge Them All.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

Well, here I am this morning just slummin around with my girlfriend and kids. Ya know, just a lazy day. It's raining pretty heavy, it's humid, and we're still in coffee and walk aimlessly mode. My two kids are sitting relatively quietly playing their vtech video game in the living room.

All of a sudden we're startled to hear a chimey "Frosty the Snowman" tune playing. I mean, we shouldn't have been all that startled. Our doorbell has been broken for months now. But just yesterday I bought a wireless cheesy 64 tune one. Frosty the Snowman? That's the tune my kids wanted. And, well, what my kids want they kind of get lol. But there it was: Frosty the snowman... startling us. It shouldn't have, since we've already heard it 3 or 4 times this morning when my kids would open the front door just to push it for the fun of it. But this time we were startled by it. My girlfriend and I looked at each other with a "WTF??" kind of look. Both the kids were clearly in sight, so we knew it wasn't them. Was someone actually at the door? In the pouring rain? A day after we actually have a working doorbell again?

We walk cautiously to the door wondering who on earth it could be. We weren't expecting anybody afterall. So we slowly open the door and there is a cop standing there, wet, but kind. He asked me "Is that your truck out there?" and I said yes. He said "Just wanted to let you know that you left your window down, and it just started raining pretty hard out there". I thanked him and explained how funny it was that we had just gotten the doorbell, etc etc. He laughed, smiled, I thanked him again, and he was on his way.

But it left me with such a nice feeling. It was so nice of him to do that. He just happened to be driving by and noticed my window down, and volunteered to get out in the pouring rain with no hood or umbrella, ring my new frosty the snowman doorbell, and let me know.

I just thought that was worth sharing. I thought it was pretty awesome of him to do that.

[Arctic Dave]

1. Your right, not ALL cops are jerks but what type of fun would we have of we couldn't generalise.

[mmonk]

2. Many are good community stewards in a thankless job.

Nice story.

[cabluedem]

30. Lots of people work at thankless, dangerous jobs. But they chose the profession, did they not? n/t

[Rebubula]

36. And..

...your point being...?

[cabluedem]

71. We dont call them "heroes" when they are not. nt

[mmonk]

86. Some jobs require heroism. Others do not.

Some just an assumption of risk or daring, the end of which is self benefit versus a benefit to the well being of others.

[Juche]

3. Agreed

In retrospect, I have had police do some very nice things for me that I didn't appreciate at the time. When someone stole some goods out of my car back in college a police officer caught them, left me a note telling me to come to the station and pick them up.

We should pay police officers more, end the drug war and demilitarize the police force by selecting cops with good social skills, not good military skills. I think if we did that we could avoid many of this us vs them stuff.

[stray cat]

4. But it is so progressive to demonize entire groups of people on the basis of one or two

:sarcasm: Most police are doing a job to support a family or themselves just the like the rest of us - except I face alot less risk for I suspect equivalent pay.

[seabeyond]

6. no, it isnt that at all. there are too many cops doing wrong. that is the problem.

and shouldnt be ignored, dismissed or trivilized

[niceypoo]

8. Police in the United States have a God complex

They are largely assholes and view most citizens as being, "guilty of something." .

When I was twelve I was with my grandmother in downtown Seattle when we happened across 3 police officers loudly harassing a bag lady. Two of them were uniformed and one was in plain clothes and they were obviously amused by her anguish. One of them made her to take an item off of her shopping cart and put it on the ground. When she complied he pulled out his ticket book and excitedly started yelling, "Littering, littering!"

My grandmother walked over and politely asked them to leave the poor woman alone, to which one of them pulled out his billy club, cocked it, and said to her, "Lady you want some?" My grandmother was shaken until we got home. I'll never forget the look on that cops face, he looked like he had just bitten into a lemon.

[imdjh]

10. And there you have it.

Your experience with three cops in Seattle is a sound basis for your universal accusation. Bullshit.

There is an institutional problem in police culture but it's not universal or universally expressed. The problem isn't the occasional asshole cop, he is the symptom. The problem is the people; the police are what the people make them or allow them to be.

Your grandmother did the right thing for the time. She objected, but then she had to choose between protecting her child and protecting the bag lady. The cops were wrong, but they were doing what 90% of the people of Seattle wanted them to do, even if those people wouldn't admit it. The people to be disappointed in would be the people who didn't back up your grandmother, and I suspect that had this happened today, your grandmother with cell phone in hand could have stood her ground.

Just the other night, the local cops pulled over a Jaguar with four punk pseudo-thugs in it. These are probably the same little assholes who drive by my house at 3 am with the stereo so loud I can hear it in my dreams. I want them policed, but it's more important to me that the police follow the rules. So I pulled into a parking space, got out, lit a cigarette, and observed the entire stop. It did not go without notice. The cops got a gold star that night. The observer cop stood quietly keeping an eye on the people in the car, and on me. The lead cop did the paperwork check, and wrote a ticket for the infraction. The stupid looking sagger boys behaved themselves. And we all had a good night.

[alarimer]

13. No, this is a profession riddled with "bad apples".

When there are SO MANY, it indicates a culture of authoritarianism. There is a certain personality drawn to the profession. These same personality types were members of the SS in the bad old days. Now they are cops. Coupled with the increasing militarization of police forces, this only leads to huge problems.

Problem is, they do not police themselves and get completely irate when civilians want to oversee them (which, in my opinion is a MUST for any police agency).

[cabluedem]

29. A large problem also exists since they have so many laws that give PC to stop and harrass motorists.

here in CA we now have the cell-phone use law while driving,
for example.

Add that to all the other laws we have and you have given them
too many excuses to abuse their powers, under the color of law.

[imdjh]

9. Neither should the response be exaggerated, emotional, irrational, ignorant, or political

If a cop does something that doesn't make sense, the proper response is "What happened here? This doesn't make sense." rather than "See! This happens all the time! Cops are murderers!" especially when the information is out there and readily available (if not to the rabble certainly to the rabble rousers) that the response being crafted is ignorant, childish, irrational, politically motivated, or an outright lie.

[seabeyond]

12. TOO many cops arent behaving properly. the issue is, keeping it honest

your post is as damaging, hence, part of the problem, as people that do what you are suggesting. it isnt one or two cops. it is TOO many. and until ALL of us who support the cops and the cops themselves stand against these cops, the problem will escalate. not get better. have no chance of getting better, just continually slide to bad.

to be honest is support of our cops. they should want it. they need it

they are losing support from people they need. people like me. middle aged, upper income, white, women. cops should always firmly have us as support. and i dont. that is a problem they should be concerned with. it behooves all of us, .... to keep it honest.

[safeinOhio]

15. Nothing is black and white

except for some squad cars.

[cabluedem]

17. Well said! One good cop doesnt outweigh all the rotten ones who skate. n/t

[seabeyond]

20. when the day comes i teach my young law abiding boys that they must be wary

of cops, is the day there is a problem. i am not going to send children out to the world with the illusion that one can trust the cop to do right. not today.

my situation, and i feel as a mother i need to make children aware, tells me there is a real problem. if i am doing this, and other friends of mine, in the circle we live, then we MUST know so many many others are feeling the same

this is a problem for the police, that they have created. it is real. it is not good. and it is the reality

[cabluedem]

27. True enough. IMO, the police have been thier own worst enemy by not policing thier own ranks of

the "bad" ones, of which there are many.

If I had only *one* thing to tell a young person when dealing with the police
it would be "dont talk to a cop".

One talks to a lawyer, not the cops, in these days of militarized, tazer carrying,
unarmed civilian killing police forces in the US.

[imdjh]

65. That's some fantasy you have there.

One talks to a lawyer, not the cops, in these days of militarized, tazer carrying,
unarmed civilian killing police forces in the US.

We don't have unarmed civilian killing police forces in the US. Anyone who would look at a cop shooting an unarmed criminal in front of hundreds of witnesses and not first presume it to be an accident would have to believe that the officer was insane. To extrapolate that to the entire force would be to assume that it's possible to assemble an institution of insane people in the police force.

But if one truly felt righteous in that characterization, then surely one would look at the murderers of police officers and extrapolate that by demographics and culture as well. Would he not?

[cabluedem]

72. Sean Bell, unarmed civilian, killed by three NYPD cops. Charges all dropped in court. Bite me. nt

[imdjh]

77. I think they were actually acquitted. And I'll see your 'bite me" and raise you a neener neener

[LooseWilly]

87. Oscar Grant. Shot dead on the Fruitvale BART station platform, Oakland CA.

New Years Day, 2009.
We'll see if his defense that he thought he had drawn his taser, rather than his 9mm, holds up.

I'll call your neener neener, and raise you a "Bullshit."

[personman]

64. Criticizing authorities is not an equivelent to generalizing about races or ethnicities.

I just think that's a bad argument.

[LooseWilly]

89. So the fact that an employee of an armed, paramilitarized force

could potentially face some risk means that they are, by definition, always in the right?

[BlooInBloo]

95. "one or two".

BWAHAHAAHAHAAA!!!!!

[cliffordu]

5. I'm always nice to the police.

I ride a bicycle everywhere, including some fairly long tours....

If I get crushed by some ass in a car who just HAS to drive while chatting on their cell phone, it'll be the cops who take care of me and let my family know.

And they're ALWAYS decent about that.

[seabeyond]

7. terrific story. i love to hears these stories. we need these stories. i have had twice

a police go out of his way to do something nice for me and i know exactly how you feel

thanks for the story

[Deja Q]

11. K&R. Especially as the MEDIA hypes up all the nasty shit, often without enough evidence,

they are often wrongly made out to be nasty people.

Also try to think of their job through their eyes; they face death every day when they get into certain situations. Especially in urban areas where there's more people and a greater propensity for nasty crimes.

[seabeyond]

14. they have to deal with the nastiest, the saddest, the meanest, ugliest. it is a hard hard job.

there is no way i could do it.

and if they cannot do it and still walk that line, they shouldn't have the job. their power is too great and ability to abuse it, too great. they need a good structure from command, and guidance. i put the problem today on their bosses. just like i put the bottom of the line soldiers abuse on the line of command, starting with bush. he is the one that created the problem for the bottom of the rung soldiers. his fault, his responsibility and he failed those under his command.

[cabluedem]

31. Lots of people face death every day. Many police depts are little more then traffic ticket workers.

and no more in harm's way then many non LEO's working for a living. More police kill off themselves then are killed in the line of duty. Fact.

[Shell Beau]

75. I would love for you to take a ride with a cop one night just

to see how ridiculous that statement is. Yes, they do write tickets. No, that is NOT NEARLY ALL they do.

[superduperfarleft]

78. Yeah, what about these nice guys?

http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20090331_Article_has_cop_dissing_blacks.html

Looks like someone riding with them didn't work out too well...

If cops don't like how they're perceived, maybe they should start behaving themselves and policing each other, as opposed to whining about what martyrs they are because they aren't liked by all the people they hassle.

And if you're someone who has never been hassled by the police, then you're in no position to tell someone who has that they're viewpoint is illegitimate. It's as ridiculous and inappropriate as a white person in the suburbs telling a black guy in a poor neighborhood that racism is over and done with because Obama is president.

[LooseWilly]

90. What city are you daydreaming about?

In cities with low crime rates, the cops pretty much just write tickets, and occasionally deal with accidents.

In cities with high crime rates, police behavior is generally a mix of inefficiently useless and appallingly oppressive. It is always pleasing to see that they always have time for a full hour for lunch, and are assured overtime to "protect and serve", even if they're called on to protect and serve in the face of community discontent with their own behavior...

[Shell Beau]

94. I am basing my opinion on the cops I know. Some in

small towns, others not. My brother in a state trooper, so I actually have someone's experience to back this up on. Not just something I am pulling out of my ass.

[LooseWilly]

88. I drove a taxi in Oakland.

I faced death every day on the job at the hands of whatever thug mught've decided to shoot me for whatever cash he might've found in my pocket. I faced the prospect of robbery every day, several times a day, especially the days when I found myself taking lots of calls to pick up passengers in the projects of West and East Oakland.

The police, in the training course they gave us when we started, told us that driving a taxi was, in fact, more dangerous than being a cop.
They made us take the training course so that we couldn't claim ignorance of any laws when they gave us tickets later.

In the end, on the job I worried more about the cops than all the thugs, dealers, pimps, hookers, hustlers, and junkies combined. I lost more money to bullshit hassles by the police than I lost to all the various sorts of hustlers I ran across on the streets over the ten years I drove that cab.

I only ran across 3 decent cops in 10 years. I was hassled by at least a dozen that were assholes. So that is, empirically speaking, 3/15 of all cops that don't suck. That, of course, reduces to 1/5. In other words, by my empirical experience (and if I were to count all the times I called 911 to get a cop to help and couldn't get any response, assuming I could even get past being on hold, that number would skew even further toward the shitty)... in other words, at least 80% of cops suck. Probably closer to 90%.


**Edited for spelling**

[DemReadingDU]

16. funny nice cop story

It was the middle of the night, the police were making the rounds of the neighborhood. The phone rings, and the cop says that our garage door was open. I thanked him, and went to close the garage door. I flipped the light on, and there was the cop waiting to make sure that everything looked intact and nothing was out of place. Except, I was in my jammies, no robe. LOL.

[seabeyond]

18. ahhhh, i love. thanks

i really really od lie hearing this story. the cop stopping traffic for ducks, the cop pulling a homeless womans cart along with his car when he had to arrest her cause it held ALL her stuff. those are stories we need.

[lies and propaganda]

19. You did'nt get tased for having it down?

:evilgrin:

[Liberal_in_LA]

85. lol n/t

[Dappleganger]

21. There are some really, really good cops out there...

who are constantly bullied and threatened by a bunch of bad-ass apples. I know some of them and while they complain about it, none of the ones I know have enough spine to go against the status-quo.

[wolfgangmo]

23. I used to be an officer - car accident took me out

So I can tell you that in my limited experience that most cops, like most people want to do the right thing. However, given our power, those bad apples are amplified in the bad they can do. If there is not a strong watch commander or sgt. to hold the line and keep these twits in check then they can pretty much do what they want because of the autonomy of the job.

Just my 2 cents.

[EFerrari]

28. That's it in a nutshell. Well said!

[Iggo]

22. I judge 'em by the company they keep.

[localroger]

24. Perspective from a hero cop

I used to have a neighbor who was a Louisiana State Trooper for 12 years. Worked undercover, has a picture of himself and a colleague airlifting injured workers from the roof of a burning grain elevator. Nicest man you could ever meet, always helpful and kind. This is what he told me:

If you meet a cop who has been on the force for more than five years, they will almost certainly be cynical and corrupt. Those first few years wash out the idealists who want to save the world leaving mostly the people who are getting something out of the job other than the modest salary. They will be on the take or on some kind of power trip. He counted himself as an exception, being a devout Christian who considered it his duty to bull it through and make the world a better place, but even he couldn't take it after awhile and he retired early.

There is also a strong regional difference. Cops who frequently deal with difficult people will form the habit of assuming everyone is difficult, particularly people of a certain race or economic class. Cops tend always to see us at our worst, either violent or vulnerable, and it's very hard for anyone to resist forming prejudices in such a position. Even cops whose communities are upper crust tend to see us as wifebeaters and traffic scofflaws who never admit the truth.

Not all cops are bad. But when you meet a cop for the first time, you assume he will be good at your peril. Assume bad until proven otherwise, and act accordingly.

Edit: And by accordingly, I mean be respectful and polite, follow orders in situations like traffic stops, remember he has a gun, and respectfully refuse to discuss anything or consent to any form of search ever, period.

[Fumesucker]

38. A relative of mine was a high ranking police officer until he passed away a few years ago..

He told me that police work changes a lot of people for the worse and that a great many cops shouldn't stay cops for too long.

He was the jail administrator in our county when he passed away and he was so fair (but firm) to the prisoners that several who had spent time in his jail actually showed up at his memorial service to pay their respects.

[knitter4democracy]

25. I've been lucky to deal with many good ones.

I've never personally dealt with a bad one, and my stepbrother's a county sherriff's deputy (sergeant now, even). I had a guy pull me over for speeding when I was preggers. I'd had a horrible day at work and was crying so hard I really shouldn't have been driving, and he not only took pity on me but made sure I got to the hospital where I was picking up STBX-husband and stayed to make sure I got out and he drove home. My son called 911 one day when he was a toddler without my knowledge, and the cop who came to the door (huge, huge, huge guy) was so good (asked me if I was okay and then if I were free to speak--very thorough) that he sat down on the floor with the kids and talked with them about 911 and gave them badge stickers that made their day.

I'd say that most cops nationwide are very good at their jobs, just like teachers. It's those few bad apples that ruin it for everyone else.

[ret5hd]

26. You don't think your luck might have something to do with your "STBX"...

being on the force, do ya?

[knitter4democracy]

74. STBX was in med school at the time.

It's my stepbrother who's a cop, but he isn't where we were living at the time. In a different state, in fact. These cops that I've dealt with don't work with him or even know him at all.

[tkmorris]

32. When an anecdote about a cop who was once nice to you...

Becomes interesting and unusual enough to warrant posting about you know we have a problem. If the police served the role they are intended to wouldn't stories such as this be about as startling as an operator forwarding your phone call?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. The Lack Of Logic In Your Post Is Astounding.

What's worse is that you think the post was rooted in it.

[personman]

44. Makes perfect sense to me.

With your fallacy littered OP and your resort to an ad hominem attack on a person's mental faculties, I wouldn't expect your views on logic to carry very much weight.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. The Post Contained Nothing More Than Overwhelming Flawed Logic.

And by you saying it made sense to you and your firm standing by its side, there is far more legitimate reason to accuse you of having a logical prowess that carries little weight than I.

And there was no fallacy littering in my OP. Get a grip.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

82. So, what's the refutation? Name calling does not a refutation make. -nt

[tkmorris]

84. Such a joy conversing with you.

You do realize that the correctness of your argument has little to do with how much froth you generate in expressing it? Come OMC, let us lead the way to a new DU. Kiss and make up?

:loveya:

[personman]

41. You've hit the nail on the head. nt

[Shell Beau]

96. No, it is because the news isn't filled with all of the great

things cops do on a daily basis. The shitty asshole cops make the news. We did hear about their bravery on 9-11 and during Katrina and that is about it.

[Orsino]

34. The ones who bust their asses for lousy pay and hours...

...apparently in pursuit of doing right ought to shame us out of the broad-brushing.

[seabeyond]

35. we are talking about such huge repercussions of the abuse of power a police officer has

and your suggestion is not address that, or these good cops shame their own, or the upper command get a grasp on the situation and control their men, .... but that we should all be shamed and ignore the militarization of the police force?

this is the solution to you?

wow

[Orsino]

42. What is the solution to what?

Not following you.

[seabeyond]

43. if you dont recognize there is a problem with our police force across the nation, then

i doubt you will see a need for a solution to this problem with our police force across the nation

instead

we should just all feel shame that we see a problem with our police force across the nation, per your post

[Orsino]

45. This is just the sort of broad-brushing I was decrying...

...and would be fallacious. Somewhere between they're-all-crooks and they're-all-heroes lies truth.

We can address widespread problems--and I see more than one--without labeling all police corrupt.

[seabeyond]

46. what a bogus answer. to say there are problems in police force is NOT broadbrush.

lordy, that is about stupid. to say all cops are bad is broadbrushing. to say police force has problems is opinion, granted, but i think there is evidence there are some real issues in our police force that hurts not only the citizens but the police force themselves, and would behoove them to address it.

broadbrush.... not even

further, a blatant falsehood i said "all police corupt" or even implied it.

you are the one that broadbrushed with your..... we should all feel shame. rollin eyes

[Orsino]

49. I think you've confused my position with the one you're arguing against.

"we should just all feel shame that we see a problem with our police force across the nation, per your post"...per your post.

Trouble is, it's a distortion of what I posted. Please don't do this.

[seabeyond]

52. doing right ought to shame us out of the broad-brushing

per YOUR post. ought to shame us out of broad brushing

then you state that my saying across the nation police force has a problem is exactly the broad brushing you DECRY.

ergo, i should be shamed for daring to suggest our police force has problems.

maybe you just broad brushed yourself without seeing that i was not arbitrarily bashing police for the sake of bashing. that maybe i can see the good the cops do but i see a greater problem. and the more it isn't addressed, the more it is ignored, the more we pretend all is fine, the worse we allow it to be. we the citizens.

it isn't getting any better. they are getting more power and abusing it more. that is simply the way humans work. they need lines drawn. they need citizens to hold them accountable. this isn't new, it isn't unknown and it isn't the end of the world or painful to acknowledge this.

i would rather address the problem then to allow all of us to be hurt cause we chose to ignore.

my position isn't unreasonable, unfair, unjust, or broad brushing

[Orsino]

59. You lost me.

I think that only those who broad-brush ought to be shamed by counter-examples.

[cabluedem]

37. the police in my city make 5k/mo. and mostly hand out traffic infractions to keep the coffers full..

$ 60,000 a year just to drive down streets harassing school kids and motorists? Sounds like a pretty cushy job to me. Oh yeah, and they are getting new patrol cars this year when the ones they have now are all 2005/2006 models. Sweet deal for sure. :sarcasm:

[Soylent Brice]

39. i betcha he also took a GOOD LONG look at the inside of your truck too.

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. To make sure that there was a radio still in the dash, if nothing else.

Glass windows prevent people from looking into your car?

[Soylent Brice]

68. no, but the windows keep people from looking in my glovebox,

under the seat, behind the seat...

[Lars39]

50. It was a two-fer....he also managed a look inside the apartment.

[Soylent Brice]

67. BINGO.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

70. More Like Bongo.

Complete idiocy.

[Soylent Brice]

73. are you paid by the police as a PR rep or something?

why so crass?

ever bother to read my PM?

it's about perspective. personal experiences.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

56. Betcha He Didn't.

Get a grip.

[personman]

40. Frosty the Strawman

First of all, I think you are setting up a straw-man. I've never seen anyone say, nor do I believe, that cops are incapable of doing anything decent.

Second, the fact that cops are capable of being decent does not mean that cops in general are decent. LogicalFallacies.info refers to this as "hasty generalization."

Third, the notion that being critical of authorities is somehow equivalent to generalizing about ethnicities, races, etc. is complete garbage. If I were to say "Cops do bad things, therefore cops are bad." THAT would be a hasty generalization. If I were to say "cops are bad because I don't believe (inevitably flawed) people should have positions of power over other people"...you can agree or disagree, but it's at least logical.

Next, let's take a closer look at the logic here.

1: If a cop does something good, then cops are not bad.
2: A cop has done something good.
3: Therefore cops are not bad.

I believe this is what LogicalFallacies.info refers to as "affirming the consequent" though it seems it could be a hasty generalization as well.

Let's look at some more extreme examples...

I don't doubt that serial-killers, Nazis or ANYONE really CAN be quite decent. This means nothing...

I'm sure most bullies can be caught doing something nice at some point or another. Hell, serial-killer's neighbours always talk about how polite they are.

Plenty of Nazis were presumably charming, patriotic, working-class Christians... Maybe one of them even took in a stray animal or something, who knows. (and who cares)

Maybe Hitler's dog loved him...

This really couldn't mean less.

If we don't judge the cops who will? The Judges? Not hardly.

-Andy

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. ROFLMAO!!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Holy over reaction! Talk about looking wayyyyyyyy too deeply into something; and wrongly at that. Get a grip kid.

[personman]

61. No reaction, just pointing out logical flaws.

Sometimes extreme examples can be useful. Bad logic becomes more glaringly obvious as bad logic.

You remind me of some of the more ignorant and belligerent kids in high school, who, for some reason, liked to bait me in to saying something over their head, and then ridicule me because it didn't make sense to them, like somehow that makes ME the dumbass... It's sort of amusing, not a sensation I've felt in a long time. :)

And the ones that knew the least had the biggest, loudest, mouths.

Anyway, that was high school, this is the internet. Thinking people actually read this stuff. It's "intellectual turf," so maybe a bunch of condescending smiley faces, a remark that basically equates to "you think too much," refering to me as "kid," and saying I'm "wrong" passes for an argument to you, thinking people can make up their own minds about it.

-Andy

[seabeyond]

63. i thought your post was well thought out, well laid out and reminiscent of the old days

when people put time and effort and thought into their discussions. regardless of my position on the topic

go figure.

[personman]

92. Thanks. :) nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. The officer's actions are at the heart of community policing.

If they develop a rapport with the community members, they're more likely to be in the loop when something bad is happening.

It was awesome, but it was also prudent and pragmatic.

[olegramps]

51. In our city every attempt to oversee the police department has been a failure.

They have stonewalled the citizen's review committee by withholding facts and providing false testimony. Cases of abuse of citizens is usually done out of view of those who could provide objective testimony. Nearly every case results in the cops charging that the person was resisting arrest and this is then backed up by the testimony of the other cops who may have not even been present. It is a difficult situation to crack.

A major problem is testimony by police in trials. Their testimony usually is regarded with more weight than other witnesses. The number of cases that have come to light in recent years in which there has been police misconduct is significant. People convicted by police testimony who have spent years in prison have be exonerated by the DNA testing results.

When you consider the number of cases that have resulted in large settlements that have had witnesses come forward with the number of complaints that have been dismissed it appears that police brutality is not a rarity. The rarity is that someone with a camera or video happens to be present. The extent of the brutality has been shocking and without any justification. A recent case in our city in which a 250 pound cop was holding onto a fence and jumping up and down on a teenager's back while another cop was holding him down with his foot as three other cops looked on reveals this is not just some rarity. Their written report of the incident was a case of creative writing and would have been unchallenged except that the whole episode was videoed by a neighbor. He came forward the next week after consulting with an attorney. He stated that at first he wanted to remain anonymous because he feared retribution by the police.

The real problem is just what type of people desire to be cops. Also just how many people are comfortable socializing with cops? They tend to associate with only other cops and perhaps this is a major problem. Perhaps the lack of association with people in other professions tends to dehumanize them to a certain extent. The situation may be dramatically different in small towns in rural America as compared to large cities that provide anonymity. I have a friend who lives next door to a cop for over ten years and has never said anything more than exchanging greetings. I can't imagine this being the case in a small town.

[pnutbutr]

53. depends on where you live, some areas breed pricks

where I used to live if an officer had actually come to my house for such a thing I would have been accused of being drunk or on drugs for forgetting to put my window up. Kinda like they did the night they woke me up at 2am to ask why I parked my car sideways across the road, completely ignoring the fact that someone had cut the soft top to get in and destroyed the ignition trying to steal it. Same area, I used to work graveyard shift so I would see police routinely racing from stoplights, 80+ in 25 zones. Had one turn on his brights and pace just behind and next to me so his lights shone right in my mirror, I assume to make me swerve or something. He really did pace me, As I slowed and sped up he would match my speed to keep his lights on my mirror. Saw another one use a known faulty traffic light switch to pull someone over. The left turn lane would not trip the sensors so the police would pull into the next lane over and purposefully sit behind the sensor in the working lane so the light wouldn't change. When the person in the left lane got fed up with sitting at the light for ten minutes they would just go and the police would pull them over. I sat in the left turn lane for 20 minutes one night with a cop sitting there behind the sensor in the next lane the entire time. Saw zero cars go through the intersection. Guess he got tired of waiting so he pulled up and the light promptly changed, he then made a left turn from the straight lane to continue following me.

[conspirator]

54. The exception confirms the rule. If a cop is good it stands out nt

[Name removed]

58. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JonLP24]

60. I think it depends on where

In Mesa most cops are pretty bad. Among incidents of shootings and overshootings were harrasements. I remember repeatedly being called "stupid" "dumbass" "liar" for telling the truth when I was only 17. That is a long story but I spare you that, I've been harrased on occassion. There was one cop that I ran into twice growing up as a teenager that was really cool, the 2nd time I was clearly in the wrong but didn't do anything serious. He comphiscated my marijuana pipe and then a week later I saw it sitting near a curb so he must've thrown it out rather then charge me with it. My 50 year old mother was even harrased by a cop, took down her badge # and made a complaint only for her supervisor's to tell her she is one of the best cops we have. Also Maricopa County Sheriff's Department(Sheriff Joe) is much worse then Mesa police and even gets into conflicts with the Mesa chief of police. However nothing compares to CRASH of the LAPD. That was clearly despicable and CRASH clearly outweighs police curroption on any other force that I have seen or heard of.

[omega minimo]

62. Mayberry OMC

:hi:

[prolesunited]

66. I agree, but that's an easy thing for me to say

since my father-in-law, brother-in-law are and my son is studying to be one.

People are people and there a scumbags in every profession. Why should this be such a huge revelation?

[AtomicKitten]

69. I'm sure there are honorable people in every profession.

However, my experience indicates too many policepeople have a rather dubious record of honesty and integrity.

[Shell Beau]

76. What? That is crazy. ALL COPS ARE ASSHOLES.

:sarcasm:

No, most are decent people who are just trying to do their usually thankless jobs that has SHIT for pay.

[superduperfarleft]

79. I was going to agree with your subject line until I saw the :sarcasm:

One nitpick though - all cops are assholes, at least until proven otherwise.

[niyad]

80. I have seen all types all across the country. I remember the state patrol officer

who guided me down a very scary mountain road at 3 in the morning, for which I will always be grateful. I remember the jerk who, in response to a very serious and threatening situation, responded with "what do you expect when you employ females?" I remember the officers who were completely oblivious to the pot smokers at a Jefferson starship concert (even the ones sitting right in front of them), and I remember the vicious creeps who dragged a disabled grandmother across the ground during a parade, causing her serious injury.

for some, it is about "serve and protect", for others, it seems to be about a sense of power over.

[arcadian]

81. How do you know that cop didn't leave your house and fondle a woman he stopped for speeding?

He probably did.

[bertman]

83. Thanks for posting this, OMC.

[Mother Of Four]

91. Thank you OMC-

I greatly appreciate you posting this.

It's a lousy job, crap pay, when you get some brass on your collar you get called in all hours day/night.

According to hubby the single most rewarding part of the day is when you actually get to help people. Give you an example, hubby is the "car opener" locally. Newer cars not so much, but ones a couple years older or more he can pop like a can of soda. He's not "supposed" to do it, but especially with the economy the way it is not many people have 50-150 dollars lying around that they can call a locksmith if they lock their keys in the car.

You would be amazed at how many people lock their car with the keys still in it.

Is it a small thing to do? I suppose so, but he'll go in on his days off to do it. They've been known to call him at home and say "Hey, got a second? Person here is stuck."

The dept here does alot of community things as well, for instance with the local schools there is an officer there every day to make sure the traffic goes smoothly- and many times they will actually be out in the middle of the intersection directing. Other times they'll be greeting the kids at the front of the school, and making sure everything is ok.

[Vinca]

93. Thanks for posting this.

As a former cop, I can attest to many good acts by police officers. Sadly, they never make the headlines.

[Zomby Woof]

97. The OP is pure flamebait

Knowing full well that the law enforcement profession draws incendiary opinions because of stories involving police engaging in civil liberties abuse, tasering, and other acts of constitutional and/or physical violence against suspects. The OP was set up precisely to incite a flamewar, so that you could taunt/mock/include rampant 'rofl' icons and so forth. Cutesy anecdotes about doorbells aside, you have proven over and over again to be disingenuous and a flamebaiter.

Considering your hostile opinions about DU as expressed above, why are you here? Is this your best outlet for your opinions and style of internet posting? Very sad.

[Prometheus Bound]

98. Damning with faint praise.

Awesome for someone to stop and tell you your window was down? OMG!

If you took the time to write about it, then this must be the best example you have of a decent cop.

That's a pretty damming implication.

I live in what another poster a few days ago insisted was a police state. Well the police here are unbelievable. Polite, well-mannered, understanding, helpful, decent, fair. Wow! I can't believe I'm writing that about police. Yes, there are some bad apples, but they end up in prison when they're caught.

It would be pretty sad if the only good thing worth writing about was that one day a cop told me my window was down.

edit: spelling