Bee colony collapse-GMO link.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

Dear Luddites,

Guess what? Mother Nature, not evil biotech, is to blame for recent bee colony collapses. GMO's got nothing to do with it. Sorry to disappoint.

Hugs and kisses,
Science

"How natural infection by Nosema ceranae causes honeybee colony collapse."
Environmental Microbiology. 10(10):2659-2669, October 2008.

"Honeybee colony collapse due to Nosema ceranae in professional apiaries."
Environmental Microbiology Reports
1(2):110 - 113 Published Online: 16 Feb 2009

[aquart]

1. Ineresting. Who sponsored the studies?

[fasttense]

2. Please provide a link. n/t

[Raine1967]

3. How bout a link?

[wolfgangmo]

4. Dear Luddite basher,

You couldn't report this without taking a shot at someone who held another theory in the face of (then) unknown information?

Despite the fact that a single study does not, in and of itself, prove anything definitively. In fact any number of studies in any biological system are not immutable unless you are also claiming the evolution is bunk, which I hope you aren't.

To be answered yet is whether or not GMO's have had an effect on the bee's immune system health. Or it the infection are part of a larger spectrum of problems. Nature is complicated and messy. Please stop trying to put it in a small clean box.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

6. I love nature, but granola still tastes sh*tty

1. There was plenty of information, some just chose to ignore it. We who called on science were branded corporate whores (and no doubt will be in the responses that will follow my OP)

2. there are two studies cited here. How many would make you happy? (My guess is a very large number still wouldn't do it)

3. yeah, I called evolution bunk. That's me, a creationist to the core. When did you stop beating your spouse?

4. Do you mean the small, clean box where some people hide their GMO bogeyman for easy access in the event of a "messy, complicated" issue of ecology? I'm not familiar with that one...

Pot, this here's the Kettle.

[SpiralHawk]

8. Dear chimpy - degustibus non disputandum est

as the Romans used to say

When was the last time you had a bowl of granola?

All granolas are not equal

Some granolas are more equal than others

[chimpyisstillsatan]

13. quidquid bene dictum est ab ullo, meum est

[Sebastian Doyle]

21. Troll, this here's the pizza

I promise there's no High Fructose Corn Poison in the sauce.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

22. troll? Is that an accusation or merely self identification? nt

[chimpyisstillsatan]

5. links

http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/envm/abstract.00125945-200810000-00017.htm;jsessionid=J9ZPQ0gx22tPRXzcB8bXBvMXLhBzhpVmvHF0cBDc7PwF1plNgppX!928310026!181195629!8091!-1

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/122204880/abstract

[tocqueville]

7. what's new ?

Nosema ceranae was first described in 1996 and was identified as a disease of Apis mellifera in 2004 in Spain.

Researchers in Spain have analysed samples of Apis mellifera, the European honey bee, mostly sent from colonies suffering unexpected decreases in bee population per hive or lower honey production, as reported by the beekeepers during the last two/three years. In 2004, 90% of some 3,000 samples had positive results for N. ceranae. In 2005, of 800 samples, 97% had positive results. During 2006, both France and Germany have detected the disease and recognized the genetic sequence of Nosema ceranae in their respective territories.

This pathogen has been tentatively linked to Colony Collapse Disorder, a phenomenon reported primarily from the United States, since fall of 2006. Highly preliminary evidence of N. ceranae was reported in a few hives in the Merced Valley area of California (USA). "Tests of genetic material taken from a "collapsed colony" in Merced County point to a once-rare microbe that previously affected only Asian bees but might have evolved into a strain lethal to those in Europe and the United States.<1><2>" The researcher did not, however, believe this was conclusive evidence of a link to CCD; "We don't want to give anybody the impression that this thing has been solved.<3>" A USDA bee scientist has similarly stated, "while the parasite nosema ceranae may be a factor, it cannot be the sole cause. The fungus has been seen before, sometimes in colonies that were healthy."<4> Likewise, a Washington State beekeeper familiar with N. ceranae in his own hives discounts it as being the cause of CCD.<5> In early 2009 Higes et al. reported an association between CCD and N. ceranae was established free of confounding factors, and that weakened colonies treated with fumagillin recovered.<6>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosema_ceranae

so it's not even proven that this fungus provokes the collapse. Besides plenty of other factors have been discussed (varroa mites, pesticides, cell phones and of course GMO proteins among others etc...) often in combination. So why "absolving" GMO from the story, when no one really knows what's going on, by ressassing 10 YEARS OLD OBSERVATIONS ??? You have a very weird definition of science.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

11. wikipedia in the Age of Reason?

Science doesn't need me to define it, that was done back in the Enlightenment. One key concept of the scientific method is called hypothesis testing, which sort of requires previous observations.

With these two papers, previous hypotheses about the involvement of this pathogen in colony collapse have now been further tested by two independent groups, and found to be supported by the evidence. That satisfies the requirement for the reproducibility of results.

The next step in the method is the refinement and re-testing of this hypothesis, and the proposal of testable alternatives that take into account the most recent data. Reason now sternly points away from GMO. Don't be surprised if in ten years the only supporters of the "GMO cause colony collapse" theory also hold out the possibility that Martian mind rays are also involved.

[tocqueville]

15. the wikipedia entry...

is as good as anything...

it only explains that what you present as a "breakthrough" is stuff that has been discovered, debated and tested in Europe for a decade. I am not here to defend the "GMO hypothesis" which besides has never been a serious clue in Europe where the research has mainly concentrated on pesticides and parasites (or fungi).

But you are doing exactly the same mistake than the one you accuse the "GMO people" of doing, choosing a "convenient" explanation.
Well as you say the "previous hypotheses about the involvement of this pathogen in colony collapse have now been further tested by two independent groups". Big deal, been there, done that. But it doesn't EXCLUDE anything else...

Reminds me of the guys that dismiss GW because some glaciers are growing somewhere....

[chimpyisstillsatan]

16. parsimony schmarsimony

here's a wikipedia page fer ya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

[tocqueville]

19. exactly

"A superficially simple phenomenon may have a complex mechanism behind it. A simple explanation would be simplistic if it failed to capture all the essential and relevant parts."

and

"However, on many occasions Occam's razor has stifled or delayed scientific progress.<17> For example, appeals to simplicity were used to deny the phenomena of meteorites, ball lightning, continental drift, and reverse transcriptase. It originally rejected DNA as the carrier of genetic information in favor of proteins, since proteins provided the simpler explanation. Theories that reach far beyond the available data are rare, but General Relativity provides one example.

In hindsight, one can argue that it is simpler to consider DNA as the carrier of genetic information, because it uses a smaller number of building blocks (four nitrogenous bases). However, during the time that proteins were the favored genetic medium, it seemed like a more complex hypothesis to confer genetic information in DNA rather than proteins."

the problem with your approach is that you reject other hypotheses because you cannot cope with the hypothesis that the decline could have MULTIPLE reasons, of which the one you present could be only one factor...

[chimpyisstillsatan]

24. nice try.

The hypothesis was that Bt was THE cause of widespread colony collapses. The simpler explanation was that a common pathogen was driving the collapses, and that Bt was not necessary or sufficient to explain the phenomenon. The latter was supported by the study, the former was not.

The Bt story required a complex set of events to occur repeatedly, consistently, and predictably, while the fungal infection hypothesis requires less of all three conditions. Therefore, as is usually the case in biology, Occam's razor applies quite well here.

[bridgit]

9. 'Mussen identified malnutrition, parasitic mites, infectious microbes and insecticide...

'...contamination as among the possible culprits. It’s a complex issue, he said, but one thing is certain: “It seems unlikely that we will find a specific, new and different reason for why bees are dying.”

Colony collapse disorder (CCD), a phenomenon where bees mysteriously abandon their hives, is not a new occurrence, said Mussen, the Extension Apiculturist at UC Davis since 1976.

“Similar phenomena have been observed since 1869,” he said. “It persisted in 1963, 1964 and 1965 and was called Spring Dwindling, Fall Collapse and Autumn Collapse. Then in 1975, it was called Disappearing Disease.”

“But the disease wasn’t what was disappearing,” Mussen quipped. “The bees were.”

Malnutrition and climate-linked issues include:

Did local weather events affect pollen-producing plants negatively?
Was there a lack of bloom (nectar and pollen) due to lack of rain or too much heat?
Was there reduced access to flowers due to excess rain?
Did cold nights interfere with meiosis (cell division) that led to “sterile” or “non-viable” pollens?
Do these types of pollen contain the usual proteins, vitamins, minerals and lipids required by the bees?'

http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/news/dssericmussen.html

It may not be so much that "GMO's got nothing to do with it", but as a sentinel species bees are subjected to the multi-faceted matrix of stressors that we bring to delicate systems and species already in states of balance. The 'bold' passage above alludes to ways in which GMO's are able to effect a colony; I'm concerned as well as to GMO's flushing or swapping organic nutrients out of the food chain and replacing them with manipulated genetic materials for the benefit of ADM and Monsanto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhUGguUNR7Q&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adByOqkSuuA&feature=related

[chimpyisstillsatan]

12. canaries in the coal mine

I agree that sentinel species are relevant to ecological monitoring, but the anti-GMO hypothesis DIRECTLY linked colony collapse and GMO.

Whether fungal susceptibility is increased by man-made factors is a very reasonable next question. IMO, there are plenty of more likely suspects thn GMO in such a scenario.

[Hanse]

10. Love the switcheroo.

Fuck the ignorati.

[lame54]

14. More link, less mock

[chimpyisstillsatan]

17. see post 5, don't post jive.

[BlooInBloo]

18. I take it this is spillover from another fight somewhere else?

[RedCloud]

20. Bumble, bumblebees with bumbles.

They are everywhere on my crops and plants. They are a vigorous breed and work for nothing. They seem a little aggressive this year. I have not seen any honeybees.

[anonymous171]

23. Because if someone doesn't support Corporate science, then they must be a luddite!

Nice straw man there.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

25. Luddite is as Luddite does

...and if one opposes science out of hand because of a fear and loathing of corporations, they are the very definition of a Luddite.

[Occam Bandage]

27. "Corporate science" is not a thing.

Please try again, using real terms.

[KakistocracyHater]

26. No bodies found, where's your explanation?

The truth is obvious to everyone: (((the honeybees have been Raptured))))


:think:

THEY were the CHOSEN ONES!!!!

[opihimoimoi]

28. Could it be the bee shit accumulated to form piles of pathogens blooming into some weird mycilium

shit? that somehow became able to spread?...My nose tells me its Bee Shit....just like them pig shit ponds...or them aquaculture fish/shrimp ponds being infected with White Spot, Tara, Odinium, etc etc....its the filth....

In bees....where do they shit? Where do they remove the shit to? Does this happen in the wild for extended periods likes those long term bee colony farms??

More than likely this thought is full of shit...but what the heck...its a thought

[Hekate]

30. Opi aikane--I've been wondering along the lines of loss of genetic diversity among bees + pesticides

Yours fits into it a bit due to the nature of modern American farming methods for plants, animals, and even bees.

Pesticides have been bred into seeds and can accumulate bit by bit in the bees as they gather pollen. Genetic diversity has been bred out of bee colonies the same way it's been bred out of our farm animals and plants -- all in the name of greater production.

The trouble with what amounts to inbreeding/overbreeding/over-reliance on pesticides/antibiotics is that it leaves the gene pool less able to resist the inevitable challenges from Nature. So here we are....

Meantime I seem to have enough backyard bees, but then I'm too lazy to ever spray anything (even if I believed in it, which I don't) and I'm not relying on my trees and herbs for anything but a minor portion of my diet. When an entire wheat field or orchard fails to get pollinated, a lot of people will be in trouble.

Hekate

http://stke.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/sci;317/5836/362
Genetic Diversity in Honey Bee Colonies Enhances Productivity and Fitness

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL33938.pdf
Recent Honey Bee Colony Declines
The potential causes of CCD,
as reported by the scientists who are researching this phenomenon, include but may
not be limited to
! parasites, mites, and disease loads in the bees and brood;
! emergence of new or newly more virulent pathogens;
! poor nutrition among adult bees;
! lack of genetic diversity and lineage of bees;
! level of stress in adult bees (e.g., transportation and confinement of
bees, overcrowding, or other environmental or biological stressors);
! chemical residue/contamination in the wax, food stores, and/or bees;
! a combination of these and/or other factors.

[opihimoimoi]

32. Thank You for your thoughts and links....much appreciated...I still partial to bee kaka theory

[chimpyisstillsatan]

33. bee stressors

Interesting thoughts on pesticides, and certainly not out of the realm of possibility. My guess would be that if this were a driver of collapse, it would be (as suggested above) a result of generalized stress that raises susceptibility to fungi. That sounds like a great next hypothesis. Now all we need is a direct measure of "stress" in the individual bees and their populations to factor out other variables.

[Hekate]

34. Stress is cumulative by its nature, and coming from multiple sources as it does...

... one may inevitably be the straw that broke the camel's back -- just one straw, mind you, but piled on top of a ton of others.

GMO/biotech sometimes becomes shorthand for or conflation of a lot of modern agribusiness practices that end up being stressors on the environment/plants/animals/us. One can usually deconstruct people's shorthand without being hostile, however.

Otherwise we're left with bee kaka.

Just sayin.'

[tkmorris]

29. This may well be borne out given further research

Your mocking, smarmy tone however leaves something to be desired. Do you think you could post things without jeering at your perceived opposition, like a trash talking NBA player who just dunked over the other teams center? It would make conversing with you so much more pleasant.

[Hekate]

31. What's the necessity of being so hostile?

I don't get it.

Hekate