It is time that we work together to remove health care benefits from Congress.

[peace13]

As their employer we simply state that the country can no longer afford to issue these benefits. Until they are subjected to the real world problems of the insurance companies there will be no change. Imagine the politicians who have severe ailments such as cancer, suddenly realizing that they are not insurable in the outside world. This is the only way that we will get quality health care reform in this country. Peace, Kim

[cali]

1. that is completely and utterly impossible

a silly waste of time and energy. I wish people would grab a clue and stop pretending that we're the boss in any traditional sense. We have the power (sort of ) to hire and fire. that's it.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeFree]

17. It works

To please the people, and when it works right they do please us. Do they please you? If not, what do you do about it but kiss ass?

[Oregone]

21. Government works to pacify people (in a variety of ways), not please them.

Government facilitates the conflict between the classes in non-violent ways, while furthering the agenda of the elite (occasionally, concessions are made to the lower classes when it is cost-effective to do so).

But despite your crusade of stripping these people of their healthcare, the only obstacle you have to hurdle is to get them all to agree and vote with you on the legislation you have to get them to agree to write.

[BeFree]

28. Typical

...slave response. You give all your power to them and that's what the crooks want. If we stood up to them and did, for a start, what the OP suggests, we'd show them who's boss, as it is, we suck, and they know it.

[Oregone]

32. This slave is just a bit confused on how you are going to "show them who's boss"...

Are you going to hold them hostage and draft/vote on the legislation for them? Hey, look, you are the empowered rebel. How are you going to accomplish this? And with all that effort, wouldn't it of been more effective to just go straight to single-payer?

Seriously, if you can make legislators vote for conditions that will screw themselves and (MIGHT) makes the favor single-payer...

Why can't you just get them to vote for single-payer or all in the first place?

BTW, just a thought...they might go along with it. These aren't the people who "need" single-payer. They are millionaires. Then where does that get you? No where closer to your goal.

[BeFree]

38. Heh

If the blacks felt and acted like you they'd still be slaves.

All your hand-wringing will get you nowhere, where you are, I suppose.

The people have the power but we don't exercise it. And here you are arguing against a good exercising!!

[Oregone]

44. "And here you are arguing against a good exercising"

No, Im here arguing for constructive exercising. Did the blacks gain freedom/civil rights by advocating slavery of another group (or the emancipation of their own)?

If you suppose that the people have the power, you may of taken a moment to address my simple question of how these powerful people will accomplish this task, and secondarily, why its not a better use of energy to just fight for single-payer from the start with that power.

[BeFree]

50. Suppose?!?!?!

Suppose people have the power? I see your problem. You have given in. Sad.

[Oregone]

52. Just answer the question

Whats up with the ad hominem attacks? This isn't about me or you.

I haven't given in to shit. I fought tooth and nail for my single-payer coverage.

How do the "powerful" people do this? Why is this more promising than that power (if it exists as you suggest) to be used directly for single-payer for all?

[BeFree]

59. So

You got yours and to hell with everyone else? Isn't that special?

In your first post to me here you used 'you' and 'your' a half dozen times.

I know the power exists, but it is unused because of lazy sheeple. Or those that got theirs so now they're done and now only obstruct and obfuscate.

[Oregone]

70. Straw man

"You got yours and to hell with everyone else? Isn't that special?"

Im suggesting that people work for single-payer healthcare, not work to strip Congressmen of it so that if the stars and moon align, maybe, they just might come around and pass it.

"I know the power exists, but it is unused because of lazy sheeple"

If the "power" exist to make legislators vote to take away their very own healthcare coverage, why wouldn't it exist to just make them vote for single-payer for all?

[defendandprotect]

131. One of the basic ideas is that Congress has to have the SAME health care

that the public has --

They can supplement it, if they wish, at their own expense --

IMO, both ideas meet --

As for the question of "how?" I don't think that's a narrow street either --

our Founders used street protests -- a lot of energy has been used by the right

to keep people out of the streets by introducing Gestapo-type policing.

The anti-war movement and other human rights movements are all liberal with the same goals.

These movements are not united -- family planning organizations aren't joined with labor.

Labor isn't joined with women's rights.

A lot has to come together in order to properly challenge Congress.

Right now, Democrats understand that -- without IRV voting -- Democrats have pretty much

no place else to go!

[cali]

53. you may not want to deal with this fact but

it wasn't the enslaved who ended the institution of slavery in this country.

And under the constitution the people invest the power to govern to their elected reps.

[Two Americas]

84. beg to differ

Millions of slaves left the plantations, faced great hardship and risk, and did in fact free themselves. Tens of thousands of slaves took up arms and fought. Former slaves formed the bedrock of the Abolition movement.

The Constitution, and the theory of self-government upon which it rests, does no grant power to the government, it restricts it.


...

[Two Americas]

83. "your" goal?

It is our goal, is it not?

"Where does that get you?"

Aren't we all going the same direction?

[Oregone]

92. No, apparently we aren't going in the same direction anymore

Some people want to work for universal health care, and some people want to waste time and energy trying to get Congress to strip themselves of their own coverage. Its very clear that there isn't a clear direction here.

[cali]

37. fucking more and more ridiculous.

short of violent revolution, there is no way to take away the health care of those in the Congress.

[BeFree]

41. No way?

Can't go to the moon either? Slaves can't be free? Women can't vote? History belies your navel gazing stance.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

95. For those that give in to conventional thinking....

perhaps these comments might stir them from their apathy

"Theoretically, television may be feasible, but I consider it an impossibility--a development which we should waste little time dreaming about.
- Lee de Forest, 1926, inventor of the cathode ray tube

I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.
- Thomas J. Watson, 1943, Chairman of the Board of IBM

It doesn't matter what he does, he will never amount to anything.
- Albert Einstein's teacher to his father, 1895

It will be years - not in my time - before a woman will become Prime Minister.
- Margaret Thatcher, 1974

This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.
- Western Union internal memo, 1876

We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out.
- Decca Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962

Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?
- H. M. Warner, Warner Brothers, 1927

640K ought to be enough for anybody.
- Bill Gates, 1981

Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction.
- Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872

Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons.
- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949

We don't need you. You haven't got through college yet.
- Hewlett-Packard's rejection of Steve Jobs, who went on to found Apple Computers

King George II said in 1773 that the American colonies had little stomach for revolution.

An official of the White Star Line, speaking of the firm's newly built flagship, the Titanic, launched in 1912, declared that the ship was unsinkable.

In 1939 The New York Times said the problem of TV was that people had to glue their eyes to a screen, and that the average American wouldn't have time for it.

An English astronomy professor said in the early 19th century that air travel at high speed would be impossible because passengers would suffocate.

Airplanes are interesting toys, but they have no military value.
- Marshal Ferdinand Foch in 1911

With over 50 foreign cars already on sale here, the Japanese auto industry isn't likely to carve out a big slice of the U.S. market.
- Business Week, 1958

Whatever happens, the U.S. Navy is not going to be caught napping.
- Frank Knox, U.S. Secretary of the Navy, on December 4, 1941

Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau.
- Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University, October 16, 1929."

[underseasurveyor]

112. Great quotes

Also reminds me of a movie we were shown in school long ago. The title was "They Said It Couldn't Be Done." It was about the building of the Golden Gate Bridge and the Hoover Damn and one or two other gargantuan projects that they, the naysayers, said were absolutely impossible to build.
Yea well, there ya go:-)


When will people learn... there's ALWAYS a way and anything can be done.

[cali]

31. yes, my reps please me. Bernie, Pat and Peter?

of course they please me, they're among the best in DC, but if they didn't, I'd work to defeat them. that's what the option is when you live in a representative democracy.

[cali]

29. OK fine let me rephrase

you need to learn the difference between a representative democracy and direct democracy. you clearly are in dire need of an education if you actually believe the nonsense you're issuing.

[BeFree]

33. Fine

You give power to them and refuse to do anything but kiss ass and follow their rules? They got you right where they want you and you are no help to the rest of us.

[cali]

43. do try and use at least a couple of brain cells

the rules are ones drafted in the Constitution. The only way to destroy those rules is violent revolution. Nope, I'm not up for that. there are ways to get legislation passed, but that's another story. one you don't seem much interested in.

[BeFree]

49. I would

But you don't appear to have any brain cells to spare. Useless comes to mind.

""the rules are ones drafted in the Constitution. The only way to destroy those rules is violent revolution""

You Fail.

[cali]

56. so you're back to word salad.

how pathetic of you. Constitutional amendments are voted on in the Congress prior to being voted on in state legislatures. In the real world, anyone with any sense at all, knows that the congress will never amend the constitution to enable their pay and benefits to be set through the popular vote.

do try an get a bit of an education as to what form of gov't exists in this country. It's sad to see abject ignorance such as yours, dearie.

[BeFree]

57. Ok

You give up. Fine. Follow their rules, they love you.

Meanwhile you totally discount that the public can pressure them to do things. It is folks similar to you that keep the people from knowing what power they have. Sad.

[Oregone]

73. "Meanwhile you totally discount that the public can pressure them to do things"

Im not sure why you *believe* the public can pressure them to vote to cancel their OWN benefits but the public cannot pressure them to extend single-payer insurance to everyone.

:wtf:

[lsewpershad]

111. And,

this is what we need to remember in the next election cycle. I agree that once we put them in there is very little we can do until the next elections.

[mmonk]

126. Yeah, pretty much. Its like hiring and firing your bosses.

[EnoughOfThis]

127. More than that....

it is completely and utterly ridiculous. This is all passion, no brains. I might agree with the concept, but WHO controls the healthcare for Congress?????...........Congress. If you want to change that, you have my blessing.....but anything else is just nonsense.....sorry.

[defendandprotect]

132. Presumably this article is trying to get you to think about the connections

between Congress' benefits and those benefits being paid for by all citizens?

Who controls campaign finance reform?

Who controls restrictions on corporate funding of legislators?

Who controls IRV voting? Who controls use of electronic voting machines across the nation?

Who controls decisions over our elections/debates?

Who controls the Drug War?

Who controls RE-REGULATION of corrupt capitalism?

Who controls prosecution of corrupt capitalism?

Who controls bailout decisions for corporations?

Who controls/exerts anti-trust laws -- controls over communications?

On and on . . .

We have to have more realistic connections between Minimum Wage/Living Wage and Executive

Salaries -- plus Congressional salaries - etal.

[dothemath]

128. dont' sell it short .............

The power to hire and fire is the ultimate power that can be held over someone, particularly in the case of Congress critters.

They don't quit Congress - unless they know they won't be re-elected. The job has trappings of power, but it holds the promise of riches - while wielding power.

Here are a couple of examples. Joe "Dead Intern" Scarborough gave it up. And now a democrat. Mendel Rivers of SC, a drunken bum whose office was "headquarters for looting" for many of the years he was in Congress didn't have to do anything but stay drunk and mostly, mostly out of sight. But the decent-voter nullifiers of SC kept putting him back in office. SC - "we're number 49, we're number 49" - could/can be relied on not to raise a fuss when results of elections were posted - regardless of which way they went. (I am not singling out SC, there are a few more - and you know who you are).

For an example of riches awaiting them, check out, in this case, Hastert's arrangement with the gov't. of Turkey. $35,000/month for "helping" Turkey. Not paid at the time, but invested oh so lucratively and payments beginning when Hastert's retires or quits. And that is just one of many schemes available to Congress critters, and many other "public servants" as well.

Don't get me started on Congress critter staffers.

[TwilightZone]

2. Good luck with that.

I understand your underlying premise, but I'd prefer to extend health care to everyone, not selectively remove it.

Besides, Congress is in control of their own pay and benefits. That makes your suggestion functionally impossible.

[peace13]

7. 'Besides, Congress is in control of their own pay and benefits'

We had a Constitution too but that doesn't mean that we do today. Things change but it is the people who make that happen. We can just sit and say that our hands are tied or we can poke a stick at the beast. Your 'helpless American' comment speaks for many people in this country I fear.

[TwilightZone]

8. Ok, fine.

Let's hear how you're going to accomplish this.

General statements like "we'll just take away their benefits" don't count. Details, please.

[peace13]

9. I like your idea better.

Let's just sit and watch as these same folks decide how health care will play out here in the United States. I like paying $2200 a month for coverage and when the pot runs dry I am sure that I will like no insurance even better. In my opinion we need to get out ahead of this discussion. I forgot, we don't solve problems on DU we just complain about them.

You speak of 'just taking away their benefits' like it doesn't happen EVERY DAY here by employers. It is done because the company can no longer afford it. Sounds just like America to me.

[cali]

34. again, you appear clueless about the form of our gov't.

the U.S. gov't is not, as repukes and you evidently think, a business.

[TwilightZone]

48. "we don't solve problems on DU we just complain about them"

Funny, that's exactly what you're doing. You claim we can just wipe away Congressional benefits, but you have yet to come up with any solution other than "we're the boss".

Doesn't work that way. Sorry.

[peace13]

25. I am going to write KO and ask him to highlight Congressional benefits

on the run up to the health care debate. A nice series on what benefits the American people supply to their elected officials and the costs of lifetime health benefits. That will be the first thing. Next I will do the futile calls to my elected critters. My log of calls is getting pathetically long. I will do what I can.

[cali]

51. now that's a good idea.

and that's the sort of thing that we should be doing. I'd love to see some hard hitting ads juxtaposing the healthcare coverage of congress critters with that of an American family who's lost their healthcare.

[Captain Hilts]

3. Asking how people that don't have to make the same choices or pay the same fees as we do...

can logically understand how things are for the rest of us is a valid question.

[meegbear]

4. I agree ...

they have lifetime "socialized medicine".

Imagine if they had to pay for it all if they had a stroke or some ailment and had to pay out of pocket.

[undeterred]

5. They would fight for their own benefits

a lot harder than they would ever fight for ours. The deal should be you don't get health care benefits until the people you represent have them. Most of them could pay for it out of pocket anyway, but its a good idea.

[peace13]

15. The sad and sorry truth. n/t

[Orangepeel]

6. Congress people use insurance companies now

John Kerry uses Blue Cross. He said so during his 2004 campaign.

Like other federal employees, they are part of a large pool that makes coverage affordable and not subject to restrictions based on pre-existing conditions. Their premiums are subsidized.

[peace13]

12. It's funny, I can't find a link to that. ( no sarcasm)

What a wonderfully large group the entire country would make. My group is three and the first time one of us gets sick, you know what will happen. Private insurance carrier or not it is certain that these folks will be insured despite any preexisting conditions.

I do know that some politicians do not accept the benefit. Are you saying that all Congress critters use Blue Cross?

[Orangepeel]

46. I'm saying that federal employees choose among insurance providers

and that John Kerry said that he had Blue Cross during his campaign. That's from my own memory, so I don't have a link. I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers him saying that.

Congresspeople who are old enough must have the option of Medicare, although I have no idea if any or how many take that option.

on edit: link to a transcript of the third debate in 2004
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/debatereferee/debate_1013.html

[peace13]

58. I believe you!

I hate 'talking' in print because sometimes the point is hard to make. I would think that if I googled 'Congress health care plan', or Congressional benefits, or something to that effect that I could find out how the plan works. It's not working for me. Guess I'll have to call Voinovich and ask him. On the bright side he is retiring after this go round so we will have a shot at actually getting a representative next year. Thanks for the link.

[Orangepeel]

75. Didn't mean to be defensive

:-)

Congresspeople are Federal Employees, so their plan is the Federal Employee Plan

http://www.opm.gov/INSURE/HEALTH/

[robinlynne]

10. YES!

[Oregone]

14. Aren't there more important things to work on?

"Until they are subjected to the real world problems of the insurance companies there will be no change."

Hello, these people make millions of dollars a year in interest, book sales, speeches and interviews. They don't live in the real world. They can pay it straight out in cash (or bribes they will increasingly get from the pharma/insurance industry. They'll see your 5 bucks and go all-in.

"This is the only way that we will get quality health care reform in this country."

Then you are screwed.

Admit it--you are just mad at them. You really aren't trying to do anything constructive.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oregone]

20. LOL. Good point

I almost glossed over that all-too-important "technicality" with a brief read. :)

Storm the Bastille! Steal their healthcare away!

[peace13]

39. I suppose the corporations that are cutting benefits are stealing health care away as well.

You are such a jokester. Your belief that our elected officials deserve better than the rest is funny. As for more important issues go, well this is an issue that results in over 50 percent of bankruptcy in the US. That may not be important to you but it is huge problem. We can sit and shit, or do something about it. I think that you have made yourself clear. As for the millionaire Congress members, a million dollars does not go far if you get a serious illness. If these folks are deemed not insurable it will be a problem. Don't fool yourself.

[Oregone]

47. Straw man

"Your belief that our elected officials deserve better than the rest is funny."

I don't have that belief.

"for more important issues go, well this is an issue that results in over 50 percent of bankruptcy in the US."

Whether or not the Congress critters have health care or not will not stem that bankruptcy. Hence, that statistic is irrelevant. By more important, I was implying single-payer for all to be among this group (rather than socialized health care for none).

"As for the millionaire Congress members, a million dollars does not go far if you get a serious illness."

Yes it does.

"Don't fool yourself."

Don't fool yourself.

[peace13]

55. Excuse me but don't get breast cancer with only one million in your pocket.

I know of what I speak. Talk is big, but chemo, surgery, more chemo, radiation and pharmacy will suck one million in the course of a lifetime and that was just one family member. Let's add the diabetes and spinal surgery of another family member. Without insurance it would have been a disaster.

[peace13]

87. What kind of insurance do you have?

You must be healthy and wealthy or on Medicare or Medicaid to be so pompous about this. Really, this issue will be the last and final death nail of the middle class. If you don't care so be it. We have waited in line long enough for this issue to come to the top of the pile and we need to be prepared when it does. People are not asking for a thing but the ability to PAY for insurance, the ability to OBTAIN insurance, the ability to not have to divorce a spouse so the entire family does not go down the tubes when someone becomes ill. Once again it may not be important to you but it sure as hell is to others!

[Oregone]

91. Oh me?

Im on single payer health care. BC MSP. I immigrated to a sane country that offered health care (from an insane one).

"Once again it may not be important to you but it sure as hell is to others!"

This is a straw man argument. I never said single payer health care isn't important to me. Its immensely important to me. I move to a different fucking country, it is so important to me. What isn't important to me is some splinter movement (probably born out of hatred and frustration) to strip Congress of their benefits (without accomplishing anything besides). Not only is the aim of this essentially impossible, but it gets people no closer to universal coverage. Believe me, I know how important the issue of health care is. I just don't think petty movements that will go no where are a good allocation of resources.

[Bluenorthwest]

99. Those who bailed on the fight, tell us how we should figtht?

So you left to get yours, and yet you still want to be part of the conversation you left behind. The irony of this information is beyond amazing.
The OP is suggesting a bit of political theater. Which is I think a more moderate approach than leaving the country. Letting all Americans know exactly what Congress has for health care can only be a good thing. No need to remove their benefits, just talk about their benefits, make them explain to folks in their own districts why they should have what the voters can not have, clearly and directly. If they can not do that and hold their seat, well, too bad.

[Oregone]

102. "Which is I think a more moderate approach than leaving the country"

Perhaps, but then again, I actually have obtained it. Lets talk about the most *effective* method rather.

The fight for Single Payer Health Care in America has gone on since Truman put it into the Democratic Platform in the 50s. Maybe Im not patient enough to wait another 50 years, while my children grow up with inadequate health coverage.

Though, being that I actually have experience with single-payer coverage, I may have some more morsels of knowledge to add to the conversation that could be helpful (no fault of their own, its ignorance abound on this issue). You can plug your ears and yell, "Im not listening" if you choose.


"No need to remove their benefits, just talk about their benefits, make them explain"

That is not at all what is being suggested here. They want to somehow magically force Congress to vote to remove their own healthcare. This seems like a stupid idea--sorry.

[Bluenorthwest]

121. Magically? Where did you get that?

I see a suggestion for speaking out with an edge, and making Congress own what is theirs in public forums. You see a call for 'magically forcing Congress'. Perhaps we both read into it what is not there. But making them stand and explain to everyone all about what they get, salaries, benefits, the works, is a wonderful idea.

[Oregone]

124. Yeah, magic

Making a politician vote against their personal self-interests is contradictory to the core nature of a politician.

The only such contradiction could be posed if it is in their interest more to be re-elected, and as such, the political climate in America would have to drastically shift to use this issue as a litmus test for re-election and voting. If the American public used a politician's willingness to get rid of their own benefits as a litmus test, it is just as likely (if not more so), that the American public could use support for universal single-payer healthcare as a litmus test. This entire idea stems from working in a hypothetical world with abstracts and hoping the star and moon align. And at the end of the day, even if no one would elect a politician who would not vote to strip their benefits, that does not translate to electing politicians that will vote for single-payer. Clearly, this is the more affordable option in terms of big business, and the millionaires would make out fine.

[Winterblues]

18. Isn't pretty much everyone in Congress a millionaire?

I think they all could pretty much pay out of pocket for their health care if push came to shove..They are not worried at all..and it is hard for them to relate to your/our worry.

[Oregone]

23. Seriously, there are Two-Americas...

One where you work till you die, and another where John Edwards is sipping Cristal while a highly paid health care practitioner is giving him a blowjob on a golden gurney. Guess which one "needs" socialized health care?

[TwilightZone]

54. There are quite a few who aren't (Biden comes to mind)...

but most of them are, I would guess. You almost have to be wealthy to afford to compete in the money-driven election system.

Your underlying point is sound, of course. Most of them are well-enough off that they cannot relate to the poor and/or uninsured in any meaningful way.

[dflprincess]

61. I think most the millionaires are in the Senate

the House has many members who can't even afford their own place in the Washington area. Take away their health insurance or put them on one of those "Consumer Based" (actually underinsured) plans and they just may wake up to reality.

Last year the bill totaled to $15,000 just to find out the odd spot in my mammogram wasn't cancer. Fortunately, I still had decent insurance so it cost me less than $1,000 out of pocket and the rates the insurance company had negotiated with the providers knocked the net bill down to around $5,500. Though, if I had not insurance, I would have been on the hook for the $15k.

I agree with the OP, if Congress thinks the system we have now is so wonderful, let them participate in it. I'll bet all those bribes their campaigns get from the insurance industry won't look so good to them if they can't pay for their child to get medical care.

[onenote]

19. okay, let's hear your plan.

Do we make support for members of congress dropping their own health care a litmus test for whom we support? Do we work to defeat anyone not proposing or co-sponsoring the necessary action? Or do you have some more direct way of accomplishing the stated goal?

[Oregone]

27. Wouldn't a "better" litmus test be voting for those who support single-payer for all?

Constructive vs destructive approach. Hmmm. At least with this approach, you already have a few in on your side (like what, 2 of them or so?)

[onenote]

40. of course it would.

My point is that the OP's "plan" is no plan at all.

[Oregone]

45. Its an exercise in anger

I don't think the point is to actually accomplish anything

[dysfunctional press]

68. it's not an exercise, it's a statement.

an uninformed one, at that.

[snowdays]

22. I recall some groups doing this during the

Bush era but have not seen the call for this lately. Yes, it is frequently mention as you did in your OP. Feasible?, yes, but how to get it rolling and how to get the msm to even begin to talk of it?? Most are going along with the 'incremental' approach put out by the WH and leaders in Congress.

[cali]

26. not even remotely feasible. this is a representative democracy not a direct one.

feel free to inform yourself on what that means.

[snowdays]

69. Congress needs the political will and it wll be feasible. And there is no need to demean

me personally in your response.

[Uncle Joe]

24. The Congress getting all those government health benefits screams of socialism.

I always thought Inhofe and McConnell were closeted commies, it's no wonder their primary color is red.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oregone]

36. " I agree the Congresscritters need to experience what WE, THE PEOPLE, do on a daily basis"

Do WE, THE PEOPLE reach for our fat bill-fold and throw money down at the doctor's receptionist when finished? Because that is what they will do. :)

[onenote]

42. "It IS time to remove healtcare benefits from members of Congress"

again, I'd like to hear a plan for how you think that can be accomplished.

[dgibby]

35. I agree with you that our elected reps need a wake up call,

and if all of us bombarded them with your message, they might just get the idea that we're not amused. I realize we probably couldn't get their perks removed, but it would send a strong message that we're aware of the double standard and hypocrisy of enjoying taxpayer funded benefits while denying those same benefits to us. It's the PRINCIPLE that matters.

[noiretextatique]

60. i like your idea of getting KO to do a feature on their healthcare packages

i think that would be helpful. just imagine a clip of ben nelson whining about how a single payer system is unfair to insurance companies followed by a description of his healhcare benefits.
i can't think of a better way to expose the selfishness and hypocrisy of some of these lawmakers.

[dgibby]

62. I like it, too.

And don't forget to include who's funding the reps against this. In Nelson's case, it's the insurance industry. Conflict of interest, much?

[noiretextatique]

63. a sickening conflict that needs to be exposed

since he obvious has no shame about it.

[peace13]

64. Here is the email address fro Countdown.

If the spirit moves you please drop them a line. Peace, Kim

[e-mail]

[Freddie Stubbs]

65. One presidential candidate said he would do just that

Fortunately, that guy did not win the nomination.

[SammyWinstonJack]

108. Yes he did.

Fortunately he didn't get the nomination. x(

[Occam Bandage]

118. And his proposal was just as silly,

since the only people who have that power are Congress themselves.

[karynnj]

125. and he likely knew it was completely not possible even as he vowed to do it

Just another lie in the goal of winning votes.

[dysfunctional press]

66. since congress makes those laws- how EXACTLY do you propose to do this?

:shrug:

[peace13]

72. Well sooner or later Americans are going to have to get off of their butts and do something.

Like stand up for their rights. Maybe it is a nationwide strike. Who knows. My point is that before the end of the year this topic will be addressed by Congress. Without action more than likely Congress will let this issue slide and more Americans will be left without an option for health care. If that happens our elected representatives need to know that they too will be left to deal with the insurance companies on their. If the corporations can cut benefits so can the American people. Nothing is forever or guaranteed. To think that we are powerless is to ensure powerlessness.

[dysfunctional press]

77. do you even understand how our government works?

it sure doesn't seem like it. :shrug:

once again- how EXACTLY do you propose to take away health care from members of congress..? and please, this time- try to show at lweast a modicum of understanding about how our representational democracy actually works...n'kay?

[peace13]

78. Things that need to change, need to change.

It is obvious that you will never understand. I will not stoop to your insults. Sit tight, I'm sure that it will all work out for you.

[dysfunctional press]

81. it takes a lot more than repeating "things have to change" in order for them to do so.

and i'm not saying that they don't have to change-
just that it's pretty obvious that you don't quite understand how our representative system operates.

and it's more proof of why civics needs to be required in school curriculums- we're breeding generations of people who are completely uninformed as to the machinations of government.

[peace13]

85. One more time.

People work to make change. Sitting at a key board saying Americans are too dumb to know how their government works is not a way to change anything. We are on the streets, we write letters, we house people in political campaigns to make things happen, we travel hundreds of miles to stand up for what is right and low and behold things do change. But each person needs to start carrying their own water. If you think that elected officials have a right to money or benefits then you are wrong. Laws change, Constitutions get soiled, but it is work and tenacity that gets things going.

[dysfunctional press]

89. so i'll ask one more time-

please explain EXACTLY how you intend to get members of congress to vote themselves out of their healthcare plan. (and fyi- just talking about some ambiguous "protests in the streets" is NOT a valid answer, because that isn't how it works in this country)

[Bluenorthwest]

97. There are times when simply making the issue known

gets results. If Congress was being asked at every turn about their benefits, and questions were being raised about the inequity, they would become uncomfortable with their own situation. They need to get votes. If they fear losing their precious seat, they are capable of many things.
So it is not necessary to actually remove those benefits, just to talk about doing so, look into how it would be done. Let them know they are being watched with great interest.
Or, we could just keep pretending that we are happy with the way things are. Like good little serfs.
I notice that even bringing the issue forward sends many into a tailspin, right here on DU. So brigning it up to the public might also get some strong reactions. When it comes to health and money, snark and a jaded attitude really will not prevail. Apathy is very much out of fashion.

[dysfunctional press]

100. this isn't one of those times.

it's no secret to anyone that members of congress enjoy fantastic medical benefits. pretty much ALL government employees have great coverage- it's one of the major perks of the jobs.

[peace13]

106. Good morning.

There is no such thing as a 'major perk of the job' anymore. Corporations are dissolving entire jobs, removing benefits and gobbling up pension plans. Why do you insist that Congress should be any less vulnerable than the American people? Things change. The government that they represent happens to be bankrupt. When you lead the country into the crapper you should not expect fillets for dinner.

That being said , they can design a plan that would provide a health plan to all Americans. An affordable , dependable plan. One that they too will enjoy.

[dysfunctional press]

116. bullshit.

"There is no such thing as a 'major perk of the job' anymore."

THAT is just a ridiculous statement- it sounds as if it's born more out of frustration than fact- much like the mistaken idea that it would somehow be possible to have congress vote themselves out of their own benefits. plenty of private sector jobs still maintain plenty of perks for the people employed at them.

"The government that they represent happens to be bankrupt."

congress doesn't represent the government- they ARE (a part of)the government- they represent the people who voted for them.

[dionysus]

67. that's as likely as a magic unicorn flying me home from work tonight...

:rofl:

[Ilsa]

71. Yes. We can start with online petitions and write letters. Let them know we

are serious about fixing health care so it is affordable for everyone.

[peace13]

88. Dean is having a health care forum this evening.

www.moveon.org Register to participate and submit a question. Thanks, Kim

[peace13]

74. I wonder how many of the snarky replies here are written by folks on Medicare?

It's not so funny out here on the other side of this issue. If you already have socialized medicine please feel free to speak up and explain why the rest of us deserve to be held hostage by the insurance companies.

Be clear, I am not talking about the government footing the bill. I am saying that a huge percentage of the US population will not even be considered by insurance companies. Other folks pay premiums out the roof for coverage and are afraid to use it for fear if they get sick when the policy anniversary comes around there will be no renewal. Others simply can not pay because they are not able to find a job and can not afford the coverage. It is time to wake up!

[Bluenorthwest]

98. Probably none

I assume that the snark crowd works in the Insurance 'industry' and they fear that their world is threatened. Follow the money always.

[peace13]

101. Oh..I forgot the golden rule!!!

The thought of working as a government employee administering health benefits is not so appealing. You may be right!

[Joanne98]

76. I was thinking the exact same thing. I'm sick of their games.

[NNN0LHI]

79. We should be drug testing our politicians

Every damn one of them.

Cops too.

Don

[peace13]

80. To participate in a health care briefing with Dr. Dean this evening go to

www.moveon.org Register to participate and submit a question. Thanks, Kim

[JVS]

82. Their whole salaries should have to go through the payday loan people

[Vidar]

86. Remove their salaries as well, as long as we're dreaming.

[Blue_Tires]

90. congress is full of millionaires and multi-millionaires anyway

most of whom took a major pay cut to even run for office...they would simply pay for their own care and miss the point entirely

[Proud Liberal Dem]

107. Well, at least WE wouldn't be subsidizing them.

Nothing wrong with practicing the same "self-responsibility" that many of them are endlessly preaching.

[wroberts189]

93. Ill have what your drinking KNR nt

[defendandprotect]

94. I'm for a national day of "Thank You's" to the American public by CONGRESS . . .

the President -- the Supreme Court - Judges -- and all members

of Senate and House --

TO PUBLICKLY ACKNOWLEDGE AND THANK AMERICAN CITIZENS FOR THEIR BENEFITS --

PRES NOW $400 PER YEAR

VP $200,000+

Speaker - $200,oo+

Senate & House -- 198,000 . . . think that's close to it

and the Congress has been raising their own salaries for cost of living regularly --

in fact, it's way beyond cost of living.

YES -- I THINK EVERY YEAR THEY SHOULD BE FORCED TO GIVE SOME THOUGH TO WHO IS PAYING THEM

AND WE SHOULD HAVE CONTROL OVER THEIR SALARIES AND BENEFITS!!!

Indeed, if we got Single Payer, we'd save a lot of money on health care for Congress!!!

They would have to be part of the program.

Do they now pay FICA? Was that ever changed?

[peace13]

104. I hear you.

It amazes me that so many of the comments here feel that Congress is it's own boss and that we are helpless to change anything.

[defendandprotect]

130. It would take a lot to change it -- making this bribery of Congress illegal . . .

and then overturning the crooks who are in office now!

It would take a really well informed public to do it and probably IRV voting --

right now, there's no threat to the Democratic Party . . .

where are you going to go?

[rosesaylavee]

96. Ok. When do we start and what do we do?

[peace13]

103. I started with an email to KO suggesting a series of articles on the run up to the discussion

of health care. To include benefits and costs of the health care program provided to Congress with follow up articles on the impact that the lack of health insurance has on the American family such as medical bankruptcy, divorce, corporations dropping health benefits and the continual union busting across the country that will lead to more of the same. There is also the issue that insurance companies are totally excluding a large portion of the population as not insurable. That issue alone is huge.

I think we need to be out front on this. Before Congress actually sits down to slide the issue under the table one more time. I have also called my Representatives. The age old futile action. Moveon.org had a health care seminar last night with Dean so we can hook up there on any petition work. There are so many stories about disaster striking when health insurance is not available. We have to find a showcase so that this time the middle American comes out with affordable, reliable coverage. Peace, Kim

[Proud Liberal Dem]

105. If Congress ultimately decides that a public option should not be allowed

Then they should at least be consistent and eschew any government-provided health insurance for themselves. What's so controversial about that? If Congress decides that a private-run health care system is what's *best* for the rest of us, it should theoretically be good enough for them too, right? Plus for all of the new "deficit hawks" complaining about Obama's "runaway spending", we'll be saving a lot of money just by cutting government-provided health insurance for members of Congress. I'm sick of this "I've got mine" and the "double standard" mentality that a lot of members of Congress seem to have. If they are going to take a public health care system option off the table and basically declare it to be verboten, then whatever they do ought to apply to them too and there isn't anything wrong IMHO with demanding that of them. Call it revenge, call it whatever you want but the private-run health care system is just sh**ty and everybody but the amazingly wealthy KNOW IT and are being victimized by it every single day because the ultimate goal of the private insurance industry is to take your money and avoid having to actually pay anything and if THEY start to "play doctor" and decide that they're NOT going to pay for that life-saving operation you or a family member critically needs, then you and/or your loved ones are essentially SOL
:argh:

I can't believe that after 16 years of experiencing the ongoing degeneration of the private-run health care system in this country, people are not out in the streets rioting about this and Congress isn't seriously considering some kind of public health care option! Instead, influential elements within Congress seems to be doing whatever it can to avoid even discussing a public health option and appear to be poised to merely attempt to revamp and reinvent the private health care system, which is already so broken and beyond reform that it would probably make much more sense to simply scrap it altogether and start all over again- WITHOUT the involvement or input of the private insurance industry!

:argh:

[salguine]

109. it'd be worthless gesture. Most of them are millionaires. Some of them are

multi- multi- multi- multi-millionaires. All that stripping them of their healthcare benefits would do is force them to pry open their overflowing wallets if they needed an operation. They'd bitch about it, but it wouldn't hurt them any.

[alberg]

110. Stop typing and call 202-224-2651 if you want single payer

Call Max Baucus (202-224-2651) - Chair of the Senate Finance committee - today and tell him you want the Public Option included in any health care bill. His committee is a critical gate and they are dicsussing this issue today. Tell him it's essential to getting real health care reform in the US. Tell him it will be good for the economy and small businesses and will make American companies more competitive. Tell him - as a Democrat - that it's not negotiable. If we don't get the Public Option we won't get true health care reform. (And with the Public Option, when American's understand the choice they now have, the system will evolve to single payer pretty quickly.)

[peace13]

113. Please check the number.

I tried to call and this is the voice mail for Jessica Holiday.

[alberg]

114. Sorry, correct number is 202-224-2651

[peace13]

129. Thanks for that. Done. n/t

[SlingBlade]

115. Excellent idea peace13 K&R

[windoe]

117. A good strategy would be to publish Congress salaries, health benefits,

tax havens, and charities-- to continue the 'transparency' theme, and expand on it We may not be able to 'remove' their benefits. but we can highlight the facts. The millionaires of this country who have been voting for you and I to pay our own way, and receive the most benefits from our tax dollars should be on the front pages.

I believe publishing how they make their millions needs to be on the front pages, because where they get their money has obviously caused a massive conflict of interests. When the time comes for people to stand up for themselves, they will have all the data they need to know who is truly their representative and who has been bought out. Honesty, it it too much to ask for?

[demo dutch]

119. I like it... though... doubt that it will be successful

[Occam Bandage]

120. Stupid. Only Congress can change its own benefits. They're not gonna vote themselves a benefit cut,

no matter how often people protest. They'd sooner vote to give half the country to the Canadians than vote themselves a benefit cut.

[Downwinder]

122. Should elected office be a career position?

By giving retirement and medical benefits we make it one.

[Strong Atheist]

123. That goes along with my idea that they should all be paid

minimum wage...

:hide: