How could Obama and our Dem Congresspeople do this to us?

[dajoki]

Social Security will not raise benefits in 2010, forecasts say
By Robert Pear
New York Times
http://www.mercurynews.com/politics/ci_12281478?nclick_check=1
Posted: 05/02/2009 06:12:38 PM PDT
Updated: 05/02/2009 10:06:51 PM PDT

WASHINGTON — For the first time in more than three decades, Social Security recipients will not get any increase in their benefits next year, federal forecasts show.

The absence of a cost-of-living adjustment, calculated under a formula set by law, will be a shock to older Americans already hit by plummeting home values, investment losses and rising health costs. More than 50 million people receive Social Security.

"Most seniors have never been through a year in which there was no Social Security COLA," said David M. Certner, legislative counsel at AARP, the lobby for older Americans. Beneficiaries have received automatic cost-of-living adjustments every year since 1975. The increase this year was 5.8 percent.

<<snip>>

The forecasts, by the Obama administration and the Congressional Budget Office, indicate that Social Security beneficiaries will not receive any cost-of-living increase in 2010 or in 2011. The COLA is intended to preserve the purchasing power of Social Security.

A freeze in Social Security benefits would have major implications for Medicare because the COLA, in effect, puts a cap on premiums for Part B of Medicare, which covers doctors' services.

If there is no cost-of-living adjustment for Social Security, about three-fourths of beneficiaries will not see any change in their basic Part B premiums, federal officials said. But some beneficiaries do not have this protection and could face substantial increases in their Part B premiums.

Douglas W. Elmendorf, director of the Congressional Budget Office, predicted that inflation would remain low for several years, so Social Security might not pay a cost-of-living increase until January 2013. President Barack Obama's budget assumes no increase in 2010 or 2011, then a 1.4 percent COLA in 2012.

[eleny]

1. As someone else pointed out earlier - in an election year, this will never happen

They'll find the money.

[bobbolink]

24. Riiiight... the same old "Have trust in Obama" schtick.

Fuck that!

Yet, NONE of you will speak up on our behalf.

You're going to lay it ALL on us!

Now do you understand why some of us weren't for him to begin with???!!!!

[liberalmuse]

64. Jesus Christ, get a fucking grip.

:eyes:

[dajoki]

85. Why must you use that kind of language...

against a fellow DUer? Can't you be civil and have some compassion?

[bobbolink]

152. Because that's all they have. No heart. No compassion. Just blasting hurting people.

Yet, we're supposed to think that it's only the Republicans who are mean-spirited.

NOPE.

It's been how long since we had a big election, and all of DU was crying about getting everyone to get out and vote?

They were sweating whether those of us on the bottom rung would take the time and effort to vote.

And now they go out of their way to insult us.

Save this thread for the next election, and when they start belly-aching about how some people don't vote, shove this in their collective faces.

They don't deserve the wins!

[eleny]

134. Bobbolink, you know how politicians act when their jobs are threatened

If they don't find the money, they'll come under a great deal of fire. This isn't a "trust Obama" deal. It's that you and I can trust the fact that politicians care most about their own asses.

First time in the history of the SSA that there will be no cola increases? Imo - never happen.

[bobbolink]

151. Well, you can trust that... I don't. Not after all the shit I've seen. Not after all the

swill that is being thrown around here.

And NOT ONE PERSON here will write/call about this.

NOT ONE.

We're on our own.

I'm so sick of this isolation, non-caring and SHIT that I'm done with this whole mess.

[eleny]

156. I'm calling and writing and I don't receive Social Security

I get my retirement from PERA, the state employees retirement. We're getting the kick in the teeth from Caldera, Mike Rose and that libertarian ilk along with the Republicans in the state house. Rosen got taken by Bernie Madoff so the rest of us shouldn't have safety nets.

What bugs the hell out of me is that they find $500 for people on RSDI or SSI but then no increases in 2010. It tastes as bad as it smells.

Take care :hug:

[bobbolink]

158. What $500 for people on SSI????

We got NOTHING.

And stop blaming this on the Republicans!

The DEMS are in powr, and it's time to look to where this is REALLY coming from!

When I said earlier that I DIDN'T GET any of the stimulus, all I got was snark: "Well, you're getting the benefit if the stimulus".

There is nothing but snark left here, and people simply don't give a shit.

That's why when people cry that everyone is going to end up homeless, I really don't care. That's what it will take for people to regain their hearts. :grr:

[eleny]

163. And I haven't blamed the Republicans or even mentioned them

When I wrote to my legisltors in the Congress I was writing to three Democrats, Ed Perlmutter, Udall and Bennett - all Dems.

Sorry, it's a $250 one time payment for people receiving RSDI or SSI. Here's the information - http://www.ssa.gov/payment/

[bobbolink]

184. Thank you very much! I looked all over, and only found one thing.... dated 1-09

that said people on SSI weren't eligible.

No librarian could find anything about it, and the AARP tax people hadn't a clue.

THAT's how elusive it is/was!

Thanks for the info!

[bobbolink]

153. Are YOU going to be the one who will "threaten" them?

:shrug:

[eleny]

157. I've already written to my reps in Congress and to the White House

As the numbers grow, it'll be a roar.

I read your previous reply saying that you've given up. I'm not at that point.

[bobbolink]

159. Thank you! you can see from the responses in this thread that hardly anyone will even care.

This is truly disgusting.

"I read your previous reply saying that you've given up. I'm not at that point."

Try living in your car for a while. Amazing what it does to you.

[mikelgb]

2. with a swish and a flick

[debbierlus]

3. Because they are a bunch of corporate fascists who are more vested in the wealth then the people

EOM

[dajoki]

5. If it happens...

I will register as an independent, screw the democratic party if they think that little of us!!

[dionysus]

your bitter tears are like nectar to my soul....

[MercutioATC]

4. There IS a 2010 adjustment to SS benefits.

...and it uses the same formula it's used for years. It's not a "freeze" and nobody is getting screwed.

Based on the CPI-W, the adjustment is zero.

[dajoki]

6. They can shove their ZERO!! n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. If they were to adjust the SS benefits, how would they go about doing that?

[JDPriestly]

28. Here is another twist to this problem.

Social Security provides only a tiny sum each month. Many, perhaps even most seniors, especially those who are very elderly, get around a thousand dollars or less than a thousand dollars a month.

A lot of seniors have a small amount of money in savings or "investments." Well, we know what happened to the "investments." And as for seniors who rely in part on interest of various kinds for income to supplement their Social Security are getting maybe 0.5 or so percent interest. Social Security barely provides enough income to pay property taxes (or rent) and food, so, if the seniors also need to pay medical co-pays or buy medications, they have to dip into their savings -- the principal of their savings. So, the COLA does not tell the whole story. The cost of living of seniors is actually rising much higher than the COLA.

That, of course, is true of all Americans. The problem is that if you are 40 or 20, you may be able to "catch up" in terms of income if the economy rebounds a bit even if it takes ten years to improve. But if you are 65 and you can't get a job and your Social Security doesn't cover basic expenses so you have to dip into your savings, you can never make up for your loss. You will not be able to go out and get a job that pays enough for you to save money and cover your expenses once you reach 75.

This is the dilemma of senior citizens. This is one of the reasons I did not support Obama during the primaries. He displayed indifference to the problems of senior citizens very early on in his campaign. Social Security is rock bottom for senior citizens. Of course, Republicans are not going to help seniors any more than Obama is, but by not helping seniors, Obama is creating a huge backlash against himself that he does not need. The seniors who changed from voting Republican to voting Democratic in the November election put Obama over the top. He needs the seniors, and seniors need help. If Obama is smart, he will reach out to seniors very quickly. The COLAs are small, but on top of all the losses that seniors have quietly accepted in recent months, they are important.

The government needs to look at the increases in the costs of things that seniors actually buy, and it will discover that nearly all of those things are more expensive now than they were a few months ago.

[DireStrike]

20. So basically they're saying that the cost of living has not risen.

Somehow I find that really hard to believe.

[scheming daemons]

39. It hasn't. We actually had slight DEFLATION in 2008...

With home prices crashing, and oil prices crashing.

The price of almost everything stayed stagnant or went down in '08.

[DireStrike]

146. Why on earth are home prices included in inflation

I don't go out and buy a new house every week, and neither does anybody else. People aren't going to suddenly jump to cheaper houses due to market forces. Their mortgages aren't going to change, although the value of their property certainly is.

Food prices went UP in the summer due to high oil prices, and I would be surprised if they haven't stayed at least partially higher.

[dajoki]

170. That is the problem...

the CPI numbers do not work well in the real world.

[blindpig]

171. Don't shop for groceries, huh? n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Tell you what, Montegue

you can be in charge of explaining that to pissed off seniors who are not making it already! In 2010 you can go out and explain that they are getting exactly what they deserve by law, and I am very sure that they will all simply vote for the folks who follow the 'rules' to give them nothing, while scapping the rules to give the bankers trillions. Good luck pushing that biscuit!

[MercutioATC]

97. I don't support the bank bailouts, but that's a separate issue.

The point is that this isn't anything new. The same formula has been used for a long time.

This is just the first time that SS recipients aren't getting a cost of living increase...because the cost of living (at least according to the CPI-W) hasn't increased.

SS isn't supposed to provide yearly "raises", nor is it intended to be a retirement plan. Disagree with the CPI-W numbers, but there's nothing sinister going on and this is exactly how the program is supposed to operate.

[blindpig]

172. It is not a separate issue.

The issue being that the administration, by it's acts thus far, apparently holds Capital superior to the workers.

"Let them eat dog food."

[pampango]

27. Good point. The same formula has been used for years to adjust benefits to account for inflation.

When the CPI-W indicates there's no inflation, then there's not adjustment to account for inflation. The COLA formula has never included adjustments for bad stock markets or housing markets.

The Congress and President Obama would have to come up with a new annual adjustment formula, if they want to account for those factors and not just inflation. They could always enact an overall increase in benefits without coming up with a new formula to automatically adjust benefits every year. If I remember correctly SSA did that in the 1960's and early 1970's when the baby boomers were entering the workforce and there were lots of workers for every SS beneficiary.

[leftstreet]

8. I don't get this. Seniors helped put Obama in office

The Democratic ptb must have some kind of shiny bubble they plan to offer before the midterms, yes?

:shrug:

[dajoki]

12. Exactly!!

I would have expected this from the previous administration!!

[Echo In Light]

17. George Carlin: "They don't care about you ...at all ...at all ...at all."

[Beacool]

That's why he didn't vote.

;-)

[Echo In Light]

132. And why I did, but not for a Name Brand

[sinkingfeeling]

9. I don't understand why so many here are upset about this.

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/latestCOLA.html

The Social Security Act specifies a formula for determining each COLA. In general, a COLA is equal to the percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index for Urban Wage Earners and Clerical Workers (CPI-W) from the third quarter of one year to the third quarter of the next. If there is no increase, there is no COLA.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

10. That's kind of my question. To change this, does the president just...change it? Or does congress?

[quiller4]

13. Why change a formula that works well? n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

15. Well...aside from the *why* of change, I want to know *how* to change. The outrage seems to be that

Obama has not changed it. Does he have the authority to do so?

[ContinentalOp]

46. It doesn't work well. The consumer price index is totally bogus.

Our inflation figures are a lie. It would be great if the outrage over this would lead to the much needed fixes to the way we calculate inflation.

[Dr.Phool]

59. Because it doesn't work well.

They've been understating real inflation, and the cost of living for years now. Using sleight of hand, such as the comparable rental index to downplay the increase in maintaining a home. Substituting steak for hamburger or ham for balony in the food index. You're still eating, but no matter how you slice it, your standard of living is going down.

Kevin Phillips, in his book, "Bad Money" and other articles has articulated this well, and if true, real life inflation were taken into account, Social Security checks would be damn near doubled, if they reflected real inflation.

This year, I'm looking at a 25% increase in electricity, a proposed 49% increase in homeowners insurance, just for starters. Commodities prices, such as cheese, flour, dairy, etc, increased as much as 300% last year. That's a fact. I owned a restaurant last year, before the economy killed it.

I couldn't find a link to "The economy is worse than you know". However, I did find this excerpt published in the St. Pete Times last year.

Hard numbers: The economy is worse than you know

Kevin Phillips, Harper's Magazine
In Print: Sunday, April 27, 2008


Ever since the 1960s, Washington has gulled its citizens and creditors by debasing official statistics, the vital instruments with which the vigor and muscle of the American economy are measured.

The effect has been to create a false sense of economic achievement and rectitude, allowing us to maintain artificially low interest rates, massive government borrowing, and a dangerous reliance on mortgage and financial debt even as real economic growth has been slower than claimed.

The corruption has tainted the very measures that most shape public perception of the economy:

• The monthly Consumer Price Index (CPI), which serves as the chief bellwether of inflation;

• The quarterly Gross Domestic Product (GDP), which tracks the U.S. economy's overall growth;

• The monthly unemployment figure, which for the general public is perhaps the most vivid indicator of economic health or infirmity.

Not only do governments, businesses and individuals use these yardsticks in their decisionmaking, but minor revisions in the data can mean major changes in household circumstances — inflation measurements help determine interest rates, federal interest payments on the national debt, and cost-of-living increases for wages, pensions and Social Security benefits.

And, of course, our statistics have political consequences too. An administration is helped when it can mouth banalities about price levels being "anchored" as food and energy costs begin to soar.

The truth, though it would not exactly set Americans free, would at least open a window to wider economic and political understanding. Readers should ask themselves how much angrier the electorate might be if the media, over the past five years, had been citing 8 percent unemployment (instead of 5 percent), 5 percent inflation (instead of 2 percent), and average annual growth in the 1 percent range (instead of the 3-4 percent range).

(snip) much more

http://www.tampabay.com/news/article473596.ece

[bobbolink]

160. It works so well we have millions in poverty, and look at all the homeless people.

Or maybe that has escaped your notice...........

[sinkingfeeling]

37. Since the formula is set by law, it would take congress to change it. Why should it be changed?

[scheming daemons]

127. Obama has to use his top-secret super-duper time machine and

..go back and fix the CPI formula and change the legislation that ties SS COLA to it.

If he doesn't, he's simply a corporate tool.

[bobbolink]

29. You don't understand? TRY WALKING IN OUR SHOES!

Gotta love your compassion.....

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY SOME OF US HAVE GIVEN UP ON POLITICAL SHIT!

Not only are we sold down the river, we're then told to "calm down" "sit down and shut up", etc.

YOU try living like this!

Oh yeah, I'm sure you'll come back with snark rather than compassion.... it's the DU way.

Except for a few chosen, pet groups.

[sinkingfeeling]

40. Are you on SS?

[bobbolink]

53. Why are you asking a personal question?

As I said, TRY WALKING IN OUR SHOES!

[quiller4]

108. To walk in your shoes must know your situation. n/t

[bobbolink]

149. Actually, all you have to do is have a heart.

The rest takes care of itself.

[MercutioATC]

103. Why didn't I see "you" complaining when you got a 5.8% increase in 2008?

...when the economy was in a shambles and a lot of people were losing their jobs (and certainly getting NO raise).


The exact same system gave "you" a 5.8% "raise"...far in excess of what most working people got...and nobody seemed to think that was unfair.

[bobbolink]

161. YOu're all heart, aren't you? Do you even have any idea what you're talking about?

Do you know how many of us are living in our cars because this piddling increase doesn't keep up with housing costs?

Or maybe you think that homelessness is just fine.

And you wonder why so many people don't vote!!!

So, go ahead and reply with more snark.

Heartlessness is like that.

[scheming daemons]

177. Housing costs have gone way down in the past year

Haven't you been paying attention?

The housing market has collapsed. Real Estate values have plummeted.



Oh.... and you say you're living in your car? yet, you can afford high-speed internet access and a computer. Interesting...

[Forkboy]

179. Libraries have the internet.

Just sayin'

[bobbolink]

187. It's much more fun to judge and ridicule than to be logical.

[bobbolink]

186. Cut the damned judgementalism!!

YOU are the one who hasn't been "paying attention".

It's because there are so many people like you who don't give a rip about homelessness in this country that we have a homelessness crisis.

Look to yourself and your attitude and all the prejudice you show, and know why people like me don't have homes!

The ignorance shown here is absolutely appalling.

:wtf:

[Lugnut]

175. What about the previous year?

Recipients of SS had to deal with a 2.3% increase for all of 2008 when prices soared to record levels. In years prior to that artifical numbers were used to hold SS COLAs down. The 5.8% increase that we're getting now isn't even close to enough to compensate for all the years we got screwed.

By the way, I'm not a retiree. I'm disabled.

[bobbolink]

188. Thank you, Lugnut, for having the courage to speak up in the midst of this amount of

attack against us.

It really is AMAZING that people can be this hateful in the midst of their ignorance!

[JDPriestly]

33. Problem is the COLA does not reflect the rises in the expenses of

seniors. Senior citizens rarely buy shoes or computers or other things that are in the COLAs. Senior citizens mostly drive older cars (if they drive at all) and buy food and medicines and pay for heat and taxes on their homes, rent or house payments -- They don't buy IPods or a lot of other things that are reflected in the CPI and on which prices have gone down. That's the problem. Property taxes have not decreased. They go up each year at least in California.

[ContinentalOp]

47. The real problem is that the CPI numbers are totally bogus. -nt-

[quiller4]

80. Speak for yourself. I can't think of an item priced in the CPI

that I don't purchase for myself or a family member. Your comments are an insult to most of the seniors in my senior community.

Our property tax declined this year for the third year in a row and that is without applying for the relief available to low income seniors. We are paying very slightly less for our electricity. Our site rent in our mobile park decline. Our car insurance dropped. The cost of my sole prescription dropped by almost 30%. I have an MP3 player as does my 84 year old sister. We both download our own music. We have and use digital cameras and we know how to download and print pictures, too. We also both have and use both laptops and home desktop computers. My vehicle is 9 years old and paid for. My senior sister just ordered a new Ford Fusion Hybrid. It will replace her 3 year old Prius. Our "baby" sister who is only 56 drives the oldest vehicle.

[JDPriestly]

181. You obviously are not solely dependent on Social Security for your

income.

And by the way, when I speak of seniors, I am including myself. I also am a senior. We drive cars much older than yours and do not ahve a lot of the stuff you have, yet we consider ourselves to be relatively well off. I know a lot of seniors who barely survive on Social Security and a tiny bit more of income. Most seniors I know who had independent sources of income such as savings lost a lot of money in the past stock market crash and are really hurting. And those who had no money to begin with are feeling the inflation.

The gas prices in our neighborhood went up by 10 cents the gallon within a couple of hours yesterday. Brace yourselves.

From what you write, I wonder if maybe you and your sister have pensions. You see, those about 15 years younger than you, are far less likely to have pensions and far more likely to have 401(K)s (at best) if they have any income other than Social Security at all. You are in a pretty good situation compared to most seniors.

[quiller4]

189. I have a TIAA/CREF pension my older sister has a pension

from Bonneville Power. My younger sister who is still in the workforce has a 501k plan and a savings/stock purchase plan. Her spouse has a Teamster pension but, unlike my husband, did not choose early retirement.

My spouse retired at 57 on a Teamster early retirement plan and started collecting his social security at 62. We have less income than most of our peers but we havae fewer debt obligations, too.

I live very close to both McChord and Ft. Lewis and many if not most of our senior neighbors have military retirement in addition to retirement from second careers. Pierce County has the second highest concentration of retired military of any county in the US. We also have the forth highest union density of any county in the country.

The value of my TIAA/CREF took a hit last year and that reduced my monthly income by $185.

Gas in my area is up by $.20 over what it was last month but it is still far below the $4.39 I paid much of last summer.

[question everything]

63. Are medical expense part of COLA?

I know that our premiums are going up and up so I would think the same would be true for Medicare.

Now, the first baby boomers will be on Medicare in 2011 and if reimbursements for providers will continue to shrink, as they have, fewer and fewer providers would even care for Medicare patients. I've heard that this is already so in New York.

Thus, they'd better get their act together now.

As for SS, baby boomers will reach a full retirement age - 66 - in 2012 which, as posted above, is also an election year.

[Blue_In_AK]

94. There are essentially zero physicians in Anchorage

who take new Medicare patients. My mother-in-law can only get care at our neighborhood health center, which was established to take low-income patients. I'll be on Medicare in three years. My plan is not to get sick.

[BlooInBloo]

162. Because people just want to bitch about Obama.

[quiller4]

11. Why should my husband's social security income rise when

our living expenses have gone down? I'm not saying that is a good thing, either. Deflations can harm an economy but it is happening.

Rents have declined in my region by about 3%. We don't skimp on food and our food expense is down more than 10% over what it was last fall. The only prescription med I take was $18/mo last year and now it is just under $12.

Increases aren't supposed to be raises. They are intended to cover increases in the cost of living.

[leftstreet]

16. Your cost of living has gone down?! What country do you live in?

:shrug:

[inna]

21. that was my question, as well.

or at least, what state do you live in?

i live in san francisco, and my cost of living keeps going up.

[scheming daemons]

42. The cost of almost everything went down in '08... we had DEFLATION

Home prices
oil prices
food prices


Almost EVERYTHING decreased in '08. It was a deflationary year.


It's not typical, but it is what happened.

[leftstreet]

51. LOL Most seniors own their homes, can qualify for energy assistance, etc

Nice try, but 'almost EVERYTHING' else went UP

[scheming daemons]

56. The CPI is what it is. Nobody complained about the CPI when it was showing inflation

Now that the same CPI is showing that we're in a deflationary period, all of a sudden it is bunk?


The bottom line is... Obama didn't invent the CPI. The administration doesn't set the policy here.

SS payments are increased based on what the CPI says.

The CPI went down.


What exactly is Obama supposed to have done? Violate the law and increase SS payments even though CPI shows that the cost-of-living has gone down?

[leftstreet]

65. Well...they didn't means test the Wall Street Banksters. n/t

[ContinentalOp]

78. Actually, lots of people complain about the CPI and point out that the numbers are all wrong.

If we are underestimating the rate of inflation, then it stands to reason that the CPI is going to show deflation sometimes while we're still in a period of inflation.

[scheming daemons]

82. Fine... then tell me what exactly does Obama have to do with this?

Can he unilaterally change the way that SS COLA is computed each year?

I'm guessing no.

We elected a President, not a freakin' King.


The formula used to compute the CPI is baked into the SS COLA legislation.


How exactly is that Obama's doing?

[ContinentalOp]

95. Nothing! I never said he had anything to do with it.

But I do think it would be great if his administration could find a way to fix those numbers. Maybe outrage over this SS issue could be the thing that helps do it.

[scheming daemons]

98. The OP did. That's what I was talking about... not you in particular n/t

.

[dajoki]

106. Blind faith??

[scheming daemons]

109. In what?

How utterly ridiculous of you to blame Obama for this.

It defies all reasoning.

[dajoki]

139. No...

how utterly ridiculous of you to think Obama is so perfect.

[bobbolink]

155. BINGO!!!

:applause:

[bobbolink]

154. Riiigght! It's the fault of the Republicans. Wait, they are out of power.

SORRY, YOU CAN'T BLAME BUSH ANYMORE.

TOO BAD.

[dajoki]

168. And you can bet...

if they were in power these same people would be blaming them.

[scheming daemons]

178. Sean Hannity said something similar to that just yesterday

He was bemoaning the fact that Obama isn't being blamed for things that Bush would've been blamed for.


Kind of like you're doing here.

[quiller4]

70. We do own our mobile home but our income is too high

for property tax reduction or energy assistance.

[quiller4]

68. I live in Washington state. Average rents in my county

have been dropping every month since last August. After going up by 5-10% each year since 2002, our senior mobile home community announced a 15% drop in space rental effective March 1st. Our car insurance dropped by 17%. Only our health insurance continues to increase.

[Xithras]

137. Cost of living declines are pretty standard in a recession.

As the economy constricts, discretionary spending decreases. This causes merchants to reduce prices to spur sales. In our current recession, this is aggravated by the glut of empty homes on the market, which is depressing the real estate market and reducing rental rates across much of the country.

Also, keep in mind that the preceding few years saw spikes in fuel prices that drove food and consumer goods prices up across the board. When fuel prices went back down, many of those secondary prices slowly declined as well.

It's temporary, but the average cost of living in the US HAS gone down.

[DireStrike]

19. I wonder if you're representative of the country at large.

Food prices for example had a huge jump last year with the oil problems. They never came back down of course.

Here in NY, rents continue to rise unabated.

I don't think overall we have deflation in the country. I suspect we have an increased rate of inflation. An effect of having such chaos in the economy is... well, chaos. There will be episodes and areas counter to the trend, and in greater numbers than usual.

NY of course is a bad example to use with renting. I'm curious as what the actual COLA/inflation numbers would be. However, I also think the government massages their numbers to minimize the appearance of inflation and costs for the middle/lower class.

[Dr.Phool]

73. They do.

Read Kevin Phillips' book, "Bad Money".

Or this excerpt from his Harpers article.

Ever since the 1960s, Washington has gulled its citizens and creditors by debasing official statistics, the vital instruments with which the vigor and muscle of the American economy are measured.

The effect has been to create a false sense of economic achievement and rectitude, allowing us to maintain artificially low interest rates, massive government borrowing, and a dangerous reliance on mortgage and financial debt even as real economic growth has been slower than claimed.

The corruption has tainted the very measures that most shape public perception of the economy:

• The monthly Consumer Price Index (CPI), which serves as the chief bellwether of inflation;

• The quarterly Gross Domestic Product (GDP), which tracks the U.S. economy's overall growth;

• The monthly unemployment figure, which for the general public is perhaps the most vivid indicator of economic health or infirmity.

Not only do governments, businesses and individuals use these yardsticks in their decisionmaking, but minor revisions in the data can mean major changes in household circumstances — inflation measurements help determine interest rates, federal interest payments on the national debt, and cost-of-living increases for wages, pensions and Social Security benefits.

And, of course, our statistics have political consequences too. An administration is helped when it can mouth banalities about price levels being "anchored" as food and energy costs begin to soar.

The truth, though it would not exactly set Americans free, would at least open a window to wider economic and political understanding. Readers should ask themselves how much angrier the electorate might be if the media, over the past five years, had been citing 8 percent unemployment (instead of 5 percent), 5 percent inflation (instead of 2 percent), and average annual growth in the 1 percent range (instead of the 3-4 percent range).

(snip) more at.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/article473596.ece

[JDPriestly]

35. Not only have our expenses increased, but our supplemental

sources of income have either disappeared or decreased. What planet do you live on? Oranges cost the same this year as they did last year. A lot of food has gone up in price -- especially frozen vegetables and the like.

[onenote]

14. did they create a period of no inflation under the existing formula?

If not, exactly what is it that you think they did to us?

[dajoki]

18. Like the above poster said:

What country do you live in?

[quiller4]

121. I live in Lakewood, WA about 2 miles from McChord AFB n/t

[onenote]

133. I live in the real world. The one in which gas prices peaked in summer 08

and fell precipitously starting with the fourth quarter of 2008 and have stayed down. A world in which gas-influenced price increases were felt mostly in 2007/2008 == the period covered by LAST YEAR'S COLA adjustment, which was nearly 6 percent. The world in which prices starting in the fall of 2008 have indeed been dropping. And the world in which no decision has been made as to whether there will or won't be a COLA adjustment to social security in December 2009 but rather a world in which the budget forecasts of the Obama administration project that inflation will be such that there will be no adjustment under the formula. These forecasts are not binding.

Sorry that you think that the Obama administration is gaming the inflation numbers. But the real world says that they aren't

[quiller4]

190. Thank you for your clear and cogent analysis. n/t

[bobbolink]

22. And we were supposed to TRUST Obama!

I wasn't for him for this very reason... being sold down the river.

Yet, I got blasted on DU for it. "You have to have trust".

SHIT!

Now, how many of you are going to swamp Obama with protests on our behalf?

yeah, right!

[scheming daemons]

45. You're mad at Obama because 2008 was a deflationary year?

The consumer price index went down in '08. Translation: The cost of living went down.


Result: The COLA (cost of living adjustment) is zero.


SS adjustments go up when inflation goes up.


It didn't this year.


Nobody "DID" anything to you. The system worked like it is supposed to. When prices are stable, there's no need for a COLA.

[bobbolink]

55. What country are you in where prices are "stable"????

Just in my grocery store this morning, I saw a raise in prices in several things.

But, you like to just jump on people on the bottom rungs of the ladder, right?

AND, Obama cut us out of the "stimulus" that the rest of you got.

Yet, we shouldn't go after your sacred cows....

SHIT!

Try some understanding for a change.

[scheming daemons]

60. Some responses

A) Are you saying that Obama somehow jiggered with the CPI numbers to make them "lie"?

B) I'm not jumping on anybody. I'm guessing you didn't complain about the CPI numbers when they showed inflation and your SS was adjusted accordingly.

C) How exactly did you get "cut out" of the Stimulus? You're not going to be using the infrastructure that will be built with it? If you're an American, you weren't "cut out" of anything.

D) What "sacred cows" do you think I have? You know nothing about me.

[dajoki]

62. Prices did not go down...

and yes, they can make those numbers come out any way they like.
And I'm sure us people on SS got rich from our previous raises.:sarcasm:

[scheming daemons]

71. I'm just trying to figure out what you think Obama should have done differently

His choices are:

1) Follow the law
2) Don't follow the law
3) Follow the law for now, and work to change it


He's either done 1 or 3. You're mad because he hasn't done 2, apparently.

[dajoki]

89. 4) change the law n/t

[scheming daemons]

91. He's not a king. It doesn't work that way.

He can work to change the law.... but in the meantime, he has to follow it.

[dajoki]

96. Oh, you're so smart, I didn't know that. LOL!! n/t

[scheming daemons]

100. Based on your OP blaming Obama, it's hard to tell what you know...

You start an OP saying "How can Obama do this to us!?!?!?!?!"

..and now you're saying you realize that he didn't actually do anything to you.


At least you admit that your OP was reactionary and over-the-top.

:eyes:

[dajoki]

110. You are so...

brave also (in front of your keyboard). I don't need you to talk down to me, whoever is in office gets the blame, that is how it always worked.

[scheming daemons]

113. "Whoever is in office gets the blame"

So... Obama gets blamed for a law that was passed decades before he was in office.


That's pretty tortured logic, dajoki.

[dajoki]

169. No, he gets the blame for...

not doing something about the faulty CPI numbers.

[quiller4]

92. Prices on many items have dropped greatly.

Meat isn't a big part of our diet but we eat plenty of fresh veggies, fruit and cheese. The bags of oranges I buy each week have dropped more than 30% in price. The bags of petite carrots are now less than half what they were this time last year. I'm paying $2.99 for a gallon of low fat milk now. It was over $4.00/gal. last fall. Last week I paid $1.25 per pound for Foster Farms local chicken. That is over a 20% drop since December. Even the prescription dog food we buy for our senior dog has gone down from $18/case to $16.35/case.

Gas is down dramatically from what it was last summer.

The only significant increase we've experienced is in our health insurance premium.

[aikoaiko]

167. Same here in SE GA -- food, fuel, and rent is cheaper now than last year

[bobbolink]

90. Thanks for the snark. That always gets votes.

[bobbolink]

164. What don't you take your nose down a notch and remember that the people you are demeaning are POOR?

When you can address me in a "democratic" manner, I will answer your questions.

So, snark all you want.

All you're doing is taking votes you said you needed in November, and turning them off.

Want votes?

Then treat people like human beings.

[question everything]

120. Don't worry about the lack of stimulus

whatever increase we had in several paychecks will evaporate when the new medical premium goes into effect.

[bobbolink]

148. What the hell????? YOu get more money and I don't, but that's OK???

Is this the NEW DEMOCRATIC COMPASSION??

[Dragonfli]

166. DLC "compassion" it would seem

Now the elderly wishing not to live even further in poverty is a "pony"

Lets see, we have a pony named "justice" if we want rule of law - a pony named "health care" if we want single payer rather than for profit at the expense of care. A pony named "survival" for seniors that would prefer to eat and live off the streets.
How selfish of all of us that we do not get the needs of the corporate lobbyists. Those poor little guys need it so much more than we do. It doesn't matter that we all pay the taxes. Or the FICA.

We just want our little ponies and don't get how the DECENT people that really count need it ever so much more.

I am on your side and whatever crazy math they use it costs me a great deal more to eat and pay rent. Hell, the groceries go up every week.

You are wasting your breath with these people.
To them you are a dirty insignificant pony loving sub-human.
I imagine the snarky folks live quite comfortably.

I have to leave this thread because it makes me sick. I was reading through it and just couldn't take it anymore.

Some things never change. The well off seldom have empathy for anyone below their class.

[question everything]

182. No, I am just saying that whatever "stimulus" we got

was lost on increased medical premiums and I have to wonder whether the insurance companies took this into account.

I don't know what were the criteria for the stimulus payments. I know, for example, that many people who were not qualified to get some next year could, this year, if their financial situation has worsened.

If the criteria for the stimulus payment was for working people, who pay income taxes, then if you are not, you were not.

[Dr.Phool]

86. Let's see. Prices went down last year.

In my little carry out Italian Restaurant last year,

A 50 lb bag of flour went down to $35.00 from $8.00.
Cheese went down from $1.79 to almost $4.00 per pound.
Tomatoes went down from $18.00 per case to over $35.00.
And those don't include the "fuel surcharges" that all the suppliers tacked onto each delivery. Those were $50-75.00 each. Aren't cooked gov't statistics fun?

And down and down and down they went. Just like that.

Get your head out of the sand and do some shopping. You'll be shocked.

[scheming daemons]

93. Sure... pick a handful of items that went up

If you think the CPI is bogus, and there's plenty of evidence that you are right, how exactly is that related to the OP saying that "Obama has done this to us" or some such nonsense.


Obama didn't create the CPI... nor the legislation that ties SS COLA increases to the CPI.

[dajoki]

101. He shows you the facts, but you won't listen...

if Bush would have done this you would be right on the bandwagon with everybody else.

[scheming daemons]

104. You still haven't said what exactly Obama has done...

...or Bush for that matter, in this case.


Answer the simple question:

What has President Obama, SPECIFICALLY, done here?

Did he create the CPI? Nope.

Did he change the formula for the CPI? Nope.

Did he create the legislation that ties SS COLA increases to the CPI? Nope.

Does he have the power to defy the law and give SS COLA increases even if the CPI has gone down? Nope.



Your OP blamed this on Obama. Please explain how Obama has anything to do with it.

So far, you haven't.

[dajoki]

111. I hate to tell you this but...

Obama is not Perfect. So give me a break with the Obama crap.

[scheming daemons]

115. Why? To beg you to finally answer the question?

Your OP would have been just as reasonable if you blamed Obama for Watergate.

[dajoki]

118. Will you follow Obama off the cliff?

[scheming daemons]

123. I'm not even sure what the hell you're talking about any more

You: "Obama's to blame for decades old legislation that limited my 2010 COLA increase"

Me: "That's seems pretty assinine to blame him for that."

You: "Jock sniffer!"


:eyes:

[scheming daemons]

125. You're right... he should be able to go back in time and fix the wrongs of the past

He's not perfect.

But jeebus, man... at least reserve the blame for things he actually has control over.

[dajoki]

141. Nobody can tell me...

that if this happened on Bush's watch he would not be blamed. It comes with the territory, but notice, I also blame the Congress.

[dajoki]

117. He is the President...

and he can be blamed as well as congratulated. That's all I'm saying, whoever is in office gets the blame, and he is the leader of the dem party.

[scheming daemons]

119. If he doesn't fix it before his term is up, you are correct...

..he can be blamed.

But blaming him for this year's COLA adjustment (or lack thereof) is idiotic.

[Dr.Phool]

131. I didn't insinuate Obama did it.

I just pointed out that the price of EVERY food supply in my place skyrocketed last year, BEFORE Obama was in office.

Point #2. CPI isn't determined by legislation, and the numbers have been tinkered with (pushed down) since JFK's administration.

Note, that Phillips concluded that if honest, consistent numbers were kept, SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS WOULD BE AT LEAST 70% HIGHER THAN THEY ARE TODAY! Somebody has been getting screwed all along, and it just continues.

More from the Kevin Philips article.

(snip)

Nothing, however, can match the tortured evolution of the third key number, the somewhat misnamed Consumer Price Index. Government economists themselves admit that the revisions during the Clinton years worked to reduce the current inflation figures by more than a percentage point, but the overall distortion has been considerably more severe. Just the 1983 manipulation, which substituted "owner equivalent rent" for home-ownership costs, served to understate or reduce inflation during the recent housing boom by 3 to 4 percentage points.

Moreover, since the 1990s, the CPI has been subjected to three other adjustments, all downward and all dubious: product substitution (if flank steak gets too expensive, people are assumed to shift to hamburger, but nobody is assumed to move up to filet mignon), geometric weighting (goods and services in which costs are rising most rapidly get a lower weighting for a presumed reduction in consumption), and, most bizarrely, hedonic adjustment, an unusual computation by which additional quality is attributed to a product or service.

The hedonic adjustment, in particular, is as hard to estimate as it is to take seriously. No small part of the condemnation must lie in the timing.

If quality improvements are to be counted, that count should have begun in the 1950s and 1960s, when such products and services as air-conditioning, air travel, and automatic transmissions — and these are just the A's! — improved consumer satisfaction to a comparable or greater degree than have more recent innovations. That the change was made only in the late '90s shrieks of politics and opportunism, not integrity of measurement.

Most of the time, hedonic adjustment is used to reduce the effective cost of goods, which in turn reduces the stated rate of inflation. "All in all," Williams points out, "if you were to peel back changes that were made in the CPI going back to the Carter years, you'd see that the CPI would now be 3.5 percent to 4 percent higher" — meaning that, because of lost CPI increases, Social Security checks would be 70 percent greater than they currently are.

Furthermore, when discussing price pressure, government officials invariably bring up "core" inflation, which excludes precisely the two categories — food and energy — now verging on another 1970s-style price surge.

(snip)

http://www.tampabay.com/news/article473596.ece

[quiller4]

129. I shop weekly and I do data entry for 2 nonprofits

Parish Food Bank 30% increase in food distributed, 38% increase in number of households served, 17% decline in per person served food expense.

Our household food expense haas dropped just over 15%/mo since last July.

[onenote]

135. how much have those prices changed since last October?

Prices jumped in 2007 and the first three quarters of 2008. But they have been flat to declining since October. Sorry, but its true. Gas, in particular, is way down from what it was in the 12 months ending Septebmer 30, 2008 -- which is the relevant time frame under the law.

[Freddie Stubbs]

23. President Obama is following the law. He was not a US Senator when the law was last revised

[dajoki]

32. I'm sorry, but...

they can juggle the numbers to come out however they please. But when it comes down to the real world and real people, it just doesn't work.

[Freddie Stubbs]

174. So, you want him to 'cook the books?'

:shrug:

[Individualist]

26. Government of, by and (especially) FOR the corporations

[bobbolink]

30. EXACTLY!! Some of us have wised up, and dropped the blind support!

[Kansas Wyatt]

67. Welcome to the 'Corporate Government Store'

Formerly known as the 'Company Store.' Facing the prospect of going out of business, the 'Company Store' decided eliminate the People having a say in the government by merging with it, which formed the 'Corporate Government Store.'

Now that they have monopolized the entire country with this merger, instead of just isolated areas, they are cracking down on the People by crushing their incomes and levying inescapable debt against them across the country. The 'Corporate Government Store,' is making sure every person's contract is signed and every person is oppressed.

Thank you for shopping the 'Corporate Government Store!'

Now go make some more chump change, so you can put down another down payment for necessities you fools!

[damntexdem]

31. What are we going to do about it?

How can we warn them that the "third rail" shocks all who touch it?

[dajoki]

34. Call your Congress people...

and let them know we won't stand for it and they will be looking for jobs if it happens, I did!!

[leftstreet]

41. Calling them does no good. We need to camp outside their offices

Follow their limos, moon them through the windows of their trendy fav restaurants. Whatever.

Phone calls, letters and emails just buy them more time.

[dajoki]

50. I'm with you!! n/t

[Echo In Light]

36. Keep watching American Idol and yammering on endlessly over fucking sports stats

[scheming daemons]

38. There was no inflation this year, therefore no COLA... seriously.. OUTRAGE over this?

Meh.

COLA is meant to adjust based on inflation.

No inflation means no adjustment.

Obama didn't *DO* anything to anybody.

[Individualist]

44. What country are you living in?

Insurance premiums have gone up, utility costs have gone up, groceries have gone up, and prescription drugs have gone up. All of these are necessities for seniors.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

48. But that's not inflation, which is what the formula is tied to.

There needs to be a change, but it's change in law that's required.

[bobbolink]

165. The COLA is pegged to grocery prices. Has been since it was instituted in the 60s

Was wrong then, and is wrong now.

It's why so many people can no longer afford to live in an actual HOME!

[scheming daemons]

49. You're simply wrong

Grocery prices have stayed the same or gone down from a year ago.

Fuel reached a high last summer and then PLUMMETED for the past 9 months. Gasoline is cheaper now than it was 4 years ago.

Prescription drugs have gone up SLIGHTLY.


But overall, the CPI.... Consumer Price Index... has FALLEN in the past 12 months. The CPI measures inflation of consumer goods.


2008 was slightly deflationary. I'm sorry that fact doesn't jibe with your individual reality, but that makes it no less of a fact.

[Individualist]

52. Groceries have NOT gone down

As for my "individual reality", do you have any idea how many seniors are limited to the necessities I mentioned?

[Echo In Light]

66. Grocery prices here have gone up-up-up over many months

[scheming daemons]

72. Neither I (nor Obama) invented the CPI.....

If the CPI is bogus, then it should be fixed.

But the CPI numbers say what they say. Are you saying Obama's administration altered the CPI formula to show something that wasn't true?


Blaming Obama because the CPI numbers went down, and therefore SS COLA went down, is assinine.

[NutmegYankee]

142. Oh YES They Did!

And Thank God they Did! It was getting bad there for a while.



You must be getting screwed by your local market.

[Individualist]

144. Oh NO, they didn't!

I find this and my own experience more credible than your statement.

Grocers Balk at Food Price Increases
http://www.csnews.com/csn/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003886293

http://www.boston.com/business/personalfinance/articles/2008/03/09/surging_costs_of_groceries_hit_home/

http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2009/03/08/food-prices-xxxx/

http://yorkdispatch.inyork.com/yd/local/ci_10687791?source=rss

[NutmegYankee]

147. And yet mine went down, and others here report the same...

[quiller4]

105. Utility rate down 3%, car insurance down 8%, grocery bill down

15%, only prescription down 38%. Our health insurance premium up 7%. I am a senior as is my husband. We aren't wealthy but there is more slack in our budget than there was last year or the year before.

[dajoki]

61. I'm sure that you do not live on a fixed income n/t

[scheming daemons]

74. How sure are you?

I haven't had a raise in 3 years.

My wife's income went down over that time.


You're right... my income is not fixed. It's decreasing.

[dajoki]

81. Then I feel bad for you...

and you should know what its like to try to get by on lower income, unless you're making a bundle now.

[scheming daemons]

84. I'm not unsympathetic... I'm asking... WHAT DOES OBAMA HAVE TO DO WITH IT?

The legislation that defines annual SS cost-of-living adjustments predates Obama.

He's doesn't have the fiat powers of a king.

What, exactly, is Obama doing to seniors?


The point of the OP is 100% off base. Obama has nothing to do with this. The COLA increases and the formula for setting them are federal law. He can't change it with the wave of a pen.

[dajoki]

122. He's the President, and...

if I want to blame him, I will, that's all.

[PufPuf23]

130. Obama has not perfect control nor knowledge

and cannot be personally blamed. POTUS Obama has much on his plate not of his own making. He admits mistakes and adjusts. Hopefully, the approach to the economy will be adjusted more in favor of people rather than failed corporations at some point in time.

Economic stimulus is likely more effective paid to the lowest and most at risk consumers (and the multiplier effect for each dollar spent) than poured down the gullet of failed financial institutions deregulated and merged into petri dishes for "moral hazard".

Caveat: I do not collect SSI nor any other government benefit

However, CPI as calculated is a farce and impacts COLA and has been negative towards the economically weakest in the USA for years now.

My bigger worry is that Obama does not have full control of the Pentagon.

We are but happen stance away from die-off of the elderly and ill by lack of available resourses. Yet we spend close to 50% of federal expenditures on military where our military posture makes us more at risk rather than less.

[dajoki]

83. Then I feel bad for you...

and you should know what its like to try to get by on lower income, unless you're making a bundle now.

[quiller4]

112. I live on a fixed income. My husband's Teamster pension

has not changed since the year he retired. His Social Security will not go up next year (nor should it). My TIAA/CREF pension dropped May 1st as a result of the market decline.

[dajoki]

124. That is why SS should never be privatized. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Maybe Obama's memory will snap back

and he'll remember his campaign promise to end taxation of Social Security beneficiaries making less that 50K a year. That would at least balance this bull a bit. He promised that all over the country, won the nomination and has not said a word about that, or about any related issue since then. He is focused on helping the banks, but the banks are screwing the people.

[ContinentalOp]

54. Stop blaming Obama and look at the real issue here which is that we need to fix our CPI.

We should be putting pressure on Obama to fix the way we calculate inflation. Our bogus inflation numbers are part of the reason for the housing bubble, as Greenspan kept cutting rates while we were already in a recession. Of course the SS COLA numbers are a big reason for these doctored inflation statistics, as it's a way for the government to save money. It also helps hide just how low are wages are. We already know that wages haven't been keeping up with the fake inflation numbers, imagine how it would look if inflation were calculated properly!

[dajoki]

57. I voted and I can blame whoever I damn well please!! n/t

[scheming daemons]

69. Sure... you can choose to base your opinion on emotion instead of fact if you want...

That's your right.

It doesn't make you correct, though.

[dajoki]

77. Yes, that's right, and it doesn't make you correct either n/t

[ContinentalOp]

76. All I'm saying is if you're going to write your representatives,

ask them to fix our inflation statistics. We need to change how we calculate CPI. That will fix the SS issue and a lot of other problems.

[dajoki]

79. Yes, I agree with that n/t

[leftstreet]

58. Let Obama fix it. He's the Unitary Executive

Unless I missed a meeting.

[Stinky The Clown]

75. Its kinda special, ain't it?

Makes ya feel all warm and fuzzy.

[gulfcoastliberal]

87. K&R nt

[Hubert Flottz]

88. How in the hell would we bail out wall street, save the CEO's

bonuses, pay for billions of dollars worth of political campaigns, two wars and keep on giving Bush's rich friends those tax cuts, if we didn't save some money somewhere?

Old people don't need things, like the government parasites and tax cheats who can afford to lobby and give big campaign contributions do.

Old people should just die and get the fuck out of the movers and shakers way!

The Boomers paid into Social Security all their lives, but they need to just shut up, forget about the shit they need but can't afford, like food, a place to live, their trips to the doctor and their right to life and MOVE ON.

"Don't look back" at the FICA that was deducted from your paycheck all those years. Looking back, is no longer PC! Look forward, to endless shit as far as the eye can see...your "CHANGE" is in the mail.

Tote that barge and ask not what your country is going to do for you, even though they promised you all your life they would, when you reach your "GOLDEN YEARS" of doing without.

It gets harder to bend over for uncle sam when you reach old age and your body is all stiff and sore 24/7, but ask what more you can do for your country at the age of about 60 and the republicans will be thinking, well you could just die and MOVE ON so that Halliburton, which has worked so hard and played by the rules, will live on, to win another no bid gubmint contract.

[billyoc]

99. It's as easy as brushing away mosquitoes.

[SpartanDem]

102. Only an idiot would blame Obama for this

neither he or Congressional Dems have anything do to with this, the formula has been on the books for decades. Now if you wanna blame them, not vote for them if they don't do anything to fix it, that's your prerogative. But to blame Obama for a flaw in existing law clearly shows an agenda and/or outright ignorance. The real question is are you going do anything about it other than bitch on a message board?

[scheming daemons]

107. +1

The OP STILL hasn't said how this is Obama's doing.

[dajoki]

126. self delete

[Political Heretic]

114. Trying to blame Obama or Congress for an age old formula that says no increase in 2010....

...is really stupid.

They haven't changed anything.

The same formula used every year projects no increase in 2010 - basically saying COL hasn't risen, which makes sense given our period of negative growth.

[scheming daemons]

116. Don't you get it? Obama time-travelled back in time and passed the legislation

...

[Fire1]

136. You don't get it. Blaming him FOR it and blaming him for

NO EFFORTS to CHANGE it are two different things. I think the OP is placing blame in reference to the later. Semantics.

[dajoki]

138. Exactly, but some people...

think Obama can do no wrong. That is why I worded it that way.

[Fire1]

140. Got it.

:hi:

[SpartanDem]

143. This has been in the news for day or two?

You can't be serious that you're upset that this hasn't been address in the last couple days. Some people think Obama can do no wrong? Yeah and people think he can do no right and blaming him for not fixing a problem most of us didn't even exsisted until a day or two ago is just fucking stupid.

[Fire1]

145. Got a link by any chance? I was out of town for Derby

the past few days.

[dajoki]

173. And its also...

stupid to think Obama did not know about this before he even took office. And it IS a problem!!

[TWiley]

128. We are in a period of deflation .... that why

[Thickasabrick]

150. I agree with that. n/t

[ecstatic]

176. do you want a president or dictator?

I see many people have crawled out the woodwork to blame Obama for something that is not even his fault! There is a process which should be re-examined. But based on our current constitution, Obama cannot unilaterally change the way things are done without some sort of process taking place.

[blindpig]

180. wow

Looks like Libertarian Underground. But mebbe it ain't their numbers but rather their volume that makes it seem so. And of course the sheer indifference to those least well off.

[Dragonfli]

183. The New Democrats are just old Republicans - bootstraps for all!!!

[bobbolink]

185. Indeed. Then they wonder why some poor people are turned off to voting!

Look at all the nastiness here, and then remember back a few months to October, when DU was abuzz with "get out the vote" stuff.

Then they turn around and see how shitty they can be to people.

I'm done.