Remembering May 4, 1970 in Viet Nam -- 24 dead, many wounded.

[TahitiNut]

:patriot: THOMAS OLIVER AHLBERG, Army - SGT - E5, Age: 19
:patriot: DEAN L AITKEN, Army - SGT - E5, Age: 20
:patriot: JAMES GERALD ANDERSON, Army - SGT - E5, Age: 23
:patriot: DEAN LOUIS BONNEAU, Army - WO - W1, Age: 20
:patriot: RONALD CHISOLM, Army - PVT - E1, Age: 20
:patriot: STEPHEN BRADFORD EMERY, Army - 1LT - O2, Age: 23
:patriot: LEON GARNETT, Army - PFC - E3, Age: 19
:patriot: JAMES FREDRICK HOPKINS, Air Force - A1C - E3, Age: 20
:patriot: GEORGE ELLERY HUSSEY, Army - MAJ - O4, Age: 35
:patriot: TOMMY L KEARSLEY, Army - CWO - W2, Age: 22
:patriot: FLOYD WATSEL LAMB, Army - SP4 - E4, Age: 20
:patriot: ARMANDO CERVERA LUNA, Army - CPL - E4, Age: 20
:patriot: LARRY FRANKLIN MATTINGLY, Army - 1LT - O2, Age: 27
:patriot: RICHARD WALTER PAQUETTE, Army - SGT - E5, Age: 21
:patriot: JAMES EDWARD RIMMER, Army - CPL - E4, Age: 22
:patriot: THEODORE IRWIN ROBERTS, Army - SFC - E7, Age: 35
:patriot: ALBERT CHARLES SMITH, Army - SSGT - E6, Age: 27
:patriot: RODNEY ALAN TAYLOR, Army - SGT - E5, Age: 18
:patriot: EDDIE GEAN TERRELL, Marine Corps - PFC - E2, Age: 20
:patriot: ROBERT VINCENT THOMPSON, Army - SP4 - E4, Age: 20
:patriot: WAYNE LOUIS TORSIELLO, Marine Corps - SGT - E5, Age: 20
:patriot: MICHAEL ANTHONY VANCOSKY, Marine Corps - LCPL - E3, Age: 19
:patriot: LARRY LANCE WATKINS, Army - PVT - E2, Age: 22
:patriot: DOUGLAS NELSON WINFREY, Army - CAPT - O3, Age: 25


Their names can be found on panel 11W of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. May they rest in peace.

[hedgehog]

1. What is the purpose of posting these names? Was it wrong for

others to try to stop the Viet Nam War?

[Captain Hilts]

2. The killed were college-age kids who couldn't afford to avoid the war in college. nt

[hedgehog]

3. It's 2009 and we're in the middle of another war that we should never have started.

What is the point about repeating slanders against the peace activists of 1970? Trust me, the kids at Kent State were not the children of the elite. The protesters may have been safe from the draft until graduation, but they didn't ignore the plight of their friends, brothers and cousins!

I could understand the hostility if the college students had supported the war after arranging an artful dodge. But if you want to discuss people who did that, we have to look to George Bush, Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh!

[Captain Hilts]

4. No one here slandered peace activists. The war sucked. nt

[hedgehog]

7. I may be too irritable about this, but I remember the accusations at the

time that if you opposed the war, you hated your country. Freedom ain't free, but it is not only those who served in the military who fought to bring us to this day.

[dflprincess]

15. The ones evading Viet Nam were the members of the Ohio National Guard

everyone knew the Guard was just a legal way to dodge the draft. And that's why every unit in the country had waiting lists and some people had to use their daddy's connections to get into it.

[uppityperson]

12. It was for them, and others, that we tried to stop the war.

For them, it was too late. For others, it wasn't. RIP those who died. Thank you all those who work to stop these stupid wars.

[TahitiNut]

18. Thank you for ...

... a keen sense of the obvious. :hi:

[Peacetrain]

5. I remember, I always will

:patriot:

edit to add:
http://www.may4.org/?q=node/29

I remember them all.. those who served in Vietnam, those who died at Kent State, and those who traveled both roads.

I cry to think about the loss of any of them.

I remember, I always will

[ConcernedCanuk]

6. You got BORING hobbies!!

.
.
.

At least the ones you profess to have in your profile . .

I suspect this group has a special meaning for you?

The May fourth losses of 1970 in Vietnam . . .

'79 I lived in SanDee with two vets (both under 30) from Vietnam.

They rarely spoke, "salutations" like hello, good-bye, see you later were non-existent -

took me a while to get used to no response when I said goodbye when I was going out, or hello when I was coming in - these guys were non-responsive and spoke only ONCE about Vietnam

told me NEVER to ask again . . .

What I heard was horrific.

Abu Ghraib disgusted me,

but no surprise

(sigh)

[TahitiNut]

9. Well, they're just hobbies.

:evilgrin:

Back in '79, I was pretty much the same way. :shrug:

In May 1970, I was less than six months back from Viet Nam and recovering from the year there, a failed marriage, a period of homelessness, and getting my head straight. (I can't be sure I ever got the last part done.)

[ConcernedCanuk]

29. LOL - (I can't be sure I ever got the last part done.) - me neither - different situation,

.
.
.

same confusion

a failed marriage, a period of homelessness, and getting my head straight

moving to homelessness in the near future thanks to my crazy landlady

She is USAmerican

Can't y'all go ANYWHERE in the World without pissing people off?

Thank Gawd she don't have access to "Air Support"

Friendly Fire woulda got me by now!

Hafta get her outta my country to get my head strait methinks

workin' on it

(yeah we got illegals up here too)

[dixiegrrrrl]

8. Very unexpecedly, tears came to my eyes as I read this OP.

Some people may not realize how strongly "my" generation felt about the Viet Nam war.
From the time I was 18 in 1963 until the war ended in 1975, I watched my family members
go into that hell hole, I bore 2 sons whom I swore would never fight for a lie again, I marched and protested in the streets and on campus, and damn near the whole nation went thru a great revolution on many levels.
My son's daddy and my 2 brothers went to 'Nam.
College was not a readily available option for them, and they knew they were going to be drafted anyhow.
They returned physically ok but damaged in mind and spirit.

The war exacted a huge human cost in terms of fatalities, including 3 to 4 million Vietnamese from both sides, 1.5 to 2 million Laotians and Cambodians, and 58,159 U.S. soldiers. ( Wiki says so)

I talk to people who were involved in the various movements of the 60's and 70's,
they say they feel just as deeply today.
It is good for me to hear that, to know I am not alone in tearing up at the sight of the VN Wall, or at the OP above.


Thank you for posting, TahitiNut. Maybe you should post names every day, and let's see if we can add gulf War 1 and 2 to that list.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why the streetsin this country are not filled with people every day.
What we are doing to the people of the Middle East is criminally obscene, and there will be such consequences for us all.

[Captain Hilts]

13. Nowadays, folks don't understand this was also a class issue. A race issue.

Rich kids were under-represented.

Black kids were over-represented - especially in combat units.

It wasn't fair.

[uppityperson]

16. and some say bring back the draft since then all will be at risk

not understanding that the rich and powerful will still be able to get out of it. If congress can't agree on much at all, why believe they would pass something calling for equality in a draft.

Somedays I feel old

[TahitiNut]

17. Interestingly, that all changed in 1970.

The draft became lottery-based and deferments were all but eliminated. Students at places like Kent State were facing the fact that a student deferment only lasted to the end of the term. Some were facing the prospect of being drafted in a matter of months, or even weeks.

There's an appallingly tragic irony in Kent State ... students (with their deferments) facing National Guardsmen (with their deferments). College and the National Guard were the two most common ways of staying out of Viet Nam. Compounding the irony is the fact that that day on the campus of Kent State was not unlike EVERY DAY in Viet Nam. Every day. Except the weather (and food) was better in Ohio.

[TahitiNut]

24. Indeed.

:hug:

[Better Believe It]

10. The Vietnam War and the August 4, 1970 Kent State University Shootings. A Video

On August 4, 1970 four non-violent students were shot dead by National Guard troops for demonstrating against the war and for demanding that all of our troops be brought home from Vietnam.

See the video at this link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x307654


Over 55,000 GI's lost their lives in vain for an illegal war that was based upon a mountain of lies.

Today over 4,000 U.S. soldiers have lost their lives in vain for an illegal war in Iraq that was based upon a mountain of lies.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. And, they're stacking up more bodies in 2 new lost wars.

Saigon Bride
(Music by Joan Baez, Lyrics by Nina Duscheck)

Farewell my wistful Saigon bride
I'm going out to stem the tide
A tide that never saw the seas
It flows through jungles, round the trees
Some say it's yellow, some say red
It will not matter when we're dead

How many dead men will it take
To build a dike that will not break?
How many children must we kill
Before we make the waves stand still?

Though miracles come high today
We have the wherewithal to pay
It takes them off the streets you know
To places they would never go alone
It gives them useful trades
The lucky boys are even paid

Men die to build their Pharoah's tombs
And still and still the teeming wombs
How many men to conquer Mars
How many dead to reach the stars?

Farewell my wistful Saigon bride
I'm going out to stem the tide
A tide that never saw the seas
It flows through jungles, round the trees
Some say it's yellow, some say red
It will not matter when we're dead

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. Poor beautiful Joan..

How many wars and conflicts has she been singing about?
how does she keep on going?

"When will they ever learn?"

[DemBones DemBones]

19. Thanks for reminding us that May 4, 1970, was not just

the day of the Kent State shootings. I opposed the war in Vietnam but I never opposed the guys who went, I put the blame on LBJ and then on Nixon. The buck does stop in the Oval Office and always will.

[Ernesto]

20. I joined the USMC in '65 to "do my duty"...........

Been a "commie-pinko-liberal" ever since!

[TahitiNut]

21. Perhaps you should read Cervantes' "Don Quixote" (again?) ...

... and be reminded that virtue is primarily in the heart and mind of the warrior. Don Quixote, remember, was a hero! Just because the 'enemies" were illusory doesn't change that. What's important is what HE believed and how he acted on that belief.

Don't forget that.

:patriot:

[Captain Hilts]

22. A retired USMC Colonel I know - who was at Khe Sahn - is too! nt

[Burma Jones]

23. I believe the point is that these people were not killed by their countrymen...

Hence the focus is on Ohio on May 4.

[TahitiNut]

26. Well, I'm sure that makes a big difference to their families.

:eyes:

[Burma Jones]

27. It isn't personal

It's history, and on THAT day in 1970 US troops killed unarmed US kids, in the US. That's the reason it's remembered, not to insult anyone else's memory.

:)

[Mike 03]

25. K and R. This really brings the past alive. Shameful, but educational. NT

[TahitiNut]

28. RIP

:patriot:

[kentuck]

30. My first impulse...

was to look at each name to see if it was someone I knew...

[Elwood P Dowd]

31. Mine too.

:cry:

[kiva]

32. Tomorrow my students will be watching

Dear America, and some will understand a bit about this time. I will watch and remember and :cry:, I always do. :patriot:

[bertman]

33. Thank you for the sad remembrance, TahitiNut. In case anyone doesn't remember,

this was after we had "defeated" the Viet Cong and NVA during Tet in '68.

24 dead.

In one day.

And that's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Vietnamese who probably died that day.

[TahitiNut]

34. Well, it's true that the VC took enormous losses during Tet 1969

Judging from the PAVN (NVA) "regulars" I saw being treated and interrogated in February 1969, who were no older than 16, the losses the PAVN incurred were nearly as great.

[NNN0LHI]

35. Recommended

[TahitiNut]

36. Thanks, Don.

:hi:

[ismnotwasm]

37. So young

My son is in Iraq right now and I haven't heard from him in a while. I've been through this before when my daughter was deployed to Afghanistan-- except she was better a communicating.

And our governments, and so many of us have learned nothing. I still like that old ad showing the "leaders" in a boxing ring.

[NNN0LHI]

38. ...

:kick: