Exactly what does heckling accomplish?

[bluestateguy]

I can't figure it out. Other than to make the hecklers "feel good" inside, what does screaming, interrupting and shouting down a speaker, or a committee meeting really accomplish?

The hecklers are ridiculed, ignored, and removed (and sometimes arrested) and the speaker/committee meeting proceeds right along the same path. The hecklers then do nothing but depict themselves as a bunch of unhinged radicals (even if they really aren't), whose ideas are now even less worthy of serious consideration, because look, the people espousing those ideas aren't even capable of having a serious adult conversation and debate about the issues.

Yes, sometimes we have to raise our voices in the political arena, but there are venues for that. March in the streets, give your own fiery speeches, set up your own organization, go to the media (and build your own media if need be). But heckling has never accomplished anything but to make the shouters look like little children who can't handle democracy.

[Deja Q]

1. it's a catharsis, primtive as it is...

[Lasher]

5. It can be a little more than that.

It's a way of getting your views noticed when they would otherwise be ignored.

[TheMightyFavog]

13. If you go to Speaker's Corner in London

Heckling is all part of the fun of the place! Particularly when it's directed at the religious fundamentalists and political speakers.

[barbtries]

2. are you referring to this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3862225

because i don't know if you are or aren't, but if you are, i would remind you that these people were not allowed a seat at the table, which they should have had. i support their actions 100%. you call them hecklers, i call them protesters.

if you're talking about something else, mea culpa. which i guess would lead me to answer your question, it depends on the circumstances.

[Towlie]

6. If that's the issue then protesting is what brought the matter to our attention, isn't it?

Therefore, that's exactly what was accomplished.

[barbtries]

9. exactly they accomplished what they set out to do.

the thing is, i don't know if the OP is referring to this occurrence or just asking a generalized question for no particular reason. :shrug:

[bvar22]

40. I absolutely support the protestors at the Senate HealthCare meeting.

That meeting was rigged by the Democratic Party so that anyone supporting Single Payer was NOT allowed a seat or a voice.

[barbtries]

45. that's my take on it

i watched the videos of it. i am in complete support of their actions.

[jobycom]

3. Well, if they are on our side, they are standing up for freedom and making themselves heard

and if they are on the other side, they are hooligan rebel-wannabees showing off their bad upbringing while interrupting the honest efforts of others. I think that's it.

[alfredo]

30. It also has to do with the issue. If it is based on reality, and a serious issue

that is being ignored, then it's fine. If it is just to prevent the speaker from speaking, then I have a problem with it.

[omega minimo]

4. The Founders of this nation were "unhinged radicals" who knew the value of standing up for something

You inherited that tradition. What do you stand for?

"Yes, sometimes we have to raise our voices in the political arena, but there are venues for that."

Venues frequently tightly controlled and off limits to the public voice. Frequently pretending the public has no voice.

"But heckling has never accomplished anything but to make the shouters look like little children who can't handle democracy."

"Can't handle democracy"?

THEY ARE PARTICIPATING IN DEMOCRACY.

Looks like you don't understand or appreciate democracy.

[barbtries]

53. this is the winning response

IMNSHO

[omega minimo]

55. nothing "gratuitous" about it

:spray: it's not a contest

[barbtries]

57. i was giving you kudos

for the succinct way you expressed a thought i share. "gratuitous"?

[omega minimo]

60. thank you. pardon the confusion.

Thought maybe you saw this reference:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5599619#5600634

and with the "IMNSHO" maybe you were giving me a bit of a tweak.

The other post above in the link was by "gratuitous."

Meant to be humorous.

Thanks for your kudos and patience. :blush: :hi:

[mix]

7. I heckled a band once, the only time I have ever done so.

It was in a small bar and the lead singer started in with some homophobic racist crap. So I heckled his ass until the lead guitarist drowned me out.

I am not against heckling per se, just choose your battles. If a politician were to say something outrageous, why not?

[bluestateguy]

8. Be consistent

I would also remind people that you defend heckling as a noble exercise in democracy, then I expect that your verdict will be the same whether the hecklers are Code Pink or if they should happen to be anti-abortionists or Tea Party tax protesters.

[omega minimo]

18. Does the OP "heckling" refer to the linked news item in post #2 or not?

[bluestateguy]

31. Yes

and the Code Pinkers and the anti-abortionists and everybody with a cause who does it.

[omega minimo]

43. "Does" what? Speak out in a public meeting on behalf of a public left out of the proceedings

or intimidate and harass people and block the public right of way and access to health services facilities?

[PHIMG]

27. Single Payer has 60% support from Physicians

And very high support among the general public yet our bought-off politicians in a DEMOCRATICALLY CONTROLLED congress purposely exclude it as an option. Why is that?

How much money has Baucaus taken from insurance companies?

Who's senate is it?

Will we get Single Payer in 2009 or will we get Pay to Player healthcare reform. Pay to Player is where the insurance companies legally bribe politicians to keey single payer off the table and instead pass "Mandate and Subsidize" where if you are middle class you get forced by threat of a fine to buy the private insurer's defective product and you also get to pay (via your tax dollars) to subsidize private insurance for poor people.

Pay to Player healthcare reform does not eliminate the private insurers and thier waste. It just pads the private insurers bottome line. This is just more corporate welfare.

I'll take the WELFARE STATE (everyone gets free healthcare from the government) over CORPORATE WELFARE STATE (mandate and subsidize) anyday.

Shame on Baucus and shame on the concern trolls crying for civility.

Who's crying for the 18,000 who die every year because the private insurance industry has derailed real reform time and time again?

[annabanana]

28. I don't think you can generalize about "heckling".

The instances are far too diverse.

[uppityperson]

10. Because sometimes it is more important to be heard than have good manners

It can also encourage others to also stand up and speak out and be heard

[jody]

11. Heckling posts in a thread are other examples, "to harass and try to disconcert with questions,

challenges, or gibes".

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Heckling might be inappropriate in venues where there really IS a conversation.

Most venues, however, are nothing more than a platform for catapulting the propaganda. Heckling and catcalls from the audience clearly demonstrate that there is more to the issue than the one side being presented.

That's why people like Limbaugh NEVER offer their views in public settings - they cannot allow anyone to break the illusion that they have the WORD and the TRUTH. No matter how much I yell at Hannity, he doesn't hear it from his side of the TV (though my neighbors certainly do).

[BooScout]

14. Bush's shoe thrower was a heckler....

Maybe an extreme one, but a heckler none the less. He put a smile on my face.

Sometimes hecklers look stupid and sometimes they gain a world audience that agrees with them. It all depends on what your opinion is of the person being heckled, how they handle the heckling and what the hecklers are heckling about.

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. But what about the success that Code Pink has had with their tactics

[JVS]

16. It's a form of creative expression

[valerief]

17. C-SPAN was covered live. The protesters (hecklers do their thing at entertainment shows)

made their point. We also now have the video of the Senate Finance Clown Committee laughing at Americans who need single payer health care.

Those protesters were doctors who want single payer, not more insurance companies.

[bluestateguy]

36. Did they get a single payer person on the panel?

I mean, that's what they wanted? Did they get it after their heckling?

[bvar22]

41. Maybe not.

But they WERE effective in pointing out that Single Payer was NOT represented at this meeting, and as such, the meeting was a sham designed to catapult the Corporate Propaganda.
If they weren't effective, why are we talking about it now?

The "Centrist" elements of the Democratic Party are gearing up to FUCK Working Americans one more time UNLESS we can make it too painful for these assholes to do so again.

I STAND with the protesters on this issue.

[eridani]

49. They didn't get it before their heckling either. Your recommendation?

Presumably to just give up and let the insurance company shitstains kill more people.

[RandomThoughts]

19. I thought a long time on this.

Being rude and uncivilized just does not seem to be a good showing for any cause. However if done without anger, to get across a point, I see it as necessary.

Quite simply a persons morale conscious should be put first in front of ideas of civility, if the ideas of society are not actual civil, but just idea control though requirements of following power's rules on what is civil. If civility is just not allowing other views by claiming some set of behavior to control what is heard, then it is not civil. It is more like if a debate was held on a stage with only one podium and one speaker, then it would be the obligation for the audience to shout out remarks.

In some respects, the controlling factors of many sectors, commercial, societal, and governmental has had an effect to remove certain arguments from discussion, in those cases a form of civil disobedience, or peaceful, non angry statement of dissatisfaction from the crowd, although perceived as rude, is honorable.

It is almost as if the citizens duty is to constantly question and counter positions of power, for without that, power consolidates and corrupts. And even today, you can see, common people and both private and public leaders, some even in high office, questioning those very structures of power.

However in areas where there is no conversation on topics, or labels and smears are the only conversations, actions such as interrupting a discussion is needed.

[EFerrari]

20. Have you ever watched the Prime Minister's Questions?

They do that in the British Parliament all the time. It's required, in fact, as a show of support for your side.

When protesters heckle Congressional hearings, it may annoy you but it has nothing to do with not being able to handle democracy. It's a way of displacing the official theater of the hearing with a subversive one from the people. Don't watch if it bothers you.

If anything, Americans are too respectful of authority and that definitely is not good for our democracy.

[Donnachaidh]

21. oh gee a "Miss Manners" post.

You have NO idea why the hecklers are heckling. So rather than let them have their say, you bash them.

Guess we should all act like SHEEPLE. Baaaahhhhhhhhh..... :eyes:

[omega minimo]

22. or bait and switch

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5599619&mesg_id=5599681

[Occulus]

56. I believe that's known as a "tell" n/t

[Political Heretic]

23. Funny I don't remember these posts during the Bush administration.

[bluestateguy]

33. Here

Check the archives before shooting off your mouth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3714962

[Political Heretic]

52. Well, theres ONE.... by you.

:shrug:

[cascadiance]

24. The Boston Tea Party in its day was "heckling". Was that the wrong thing to do?

Just because the media that covers it doesn't put it in proper context these days, because it's part of the problem, doesn't mean we have to acquiesce to their interpretations of what happens.

Now if other means besides just yelling and screaming are also available to tackle an issue, I'm all for trying those means first, but if those fail, then you still have to find some way to be heard so that people don't assume those in power are doing what we want them to without any debate.

[mikelgb]

25. What Does an uninterrupted hearing accomplish?

I'll bet there might have been one person in that room, or in a living room watching on cspan, or watching the clip on the internet that might not have heard of single payer, or might not have known that it was "off the table" informing even that one person is a powerful accomplishment

and it doesn't hurt to tell that SOB Bachus what he needs to be hearing right to his ugly mug!

[nichomachus]

26. What does dancing accomplish?

It's a form of self-expression that has some value to the participants. The notion that it has to have to a specific "goal" that will or will not be accomplished is a rather narrow view.

[MasonJar]

29. I think it is called free speech! It might just stop our "caught up in the

DC mindset" reps from assuming that they can bulldoze right over the views and concerns of their constitutents. It is an "outside the beltway" "push comes to shove" or "else gets no attention at all" technique. I highly recommend it in certain venues, like today's Congressional meeting (led by DEMOCRAT Baucus) on health care reformm, which had no expert on single payer invited. (Kind of remionds one of Dick's energy summits, n'est pas?) But I am sure the omission was just an oversight! Oh, yeah! I say good for the doctors' reps who showed up to express outrage.

[Posteritatis]

32. The hecklers get to proclaim themselves oppressed martyrs

Which automatically makes them more right or something. It's why student protestors about educational issues in my neck of the woods make sure the legislature isn't in session before they march on it; they want not to be heard.

And shouted sloganeering is easier, and a nice change from signing online petitions all day.

[salguine]

34. Under the current system of government we have, in what other way can a

citizen ever raise an issue with an elected representative? Unless you're waving a big checkbook around, most representatives will never a) hear you, b) speak to you, c) listen to you, or d) acknowledge that you exist. People do stuff like this because they're fed up with bring ignored.

[lunatica]

35. Michael Richards could tell you how hecklers can change your life

but I know what you mean. It's different when it's a Congressional hearing as opposed to a bar.

[shadowknows69]

37. It's called heckling in a comedy club

When we're talking to our leaders who don't listen it's called protesting.

[endarkenment]

38. Well behaved protests are ignored.

Must we have this STUPID discussion every time somebody stands up and speaks out?

[petronius]

39. To me, the larger concern is that too often 'protesting' is the end in itself

There are times when heckling and disruption are productive means of raising a point, and times when they are not. However, even here on DU there sometimes seems to be a notion that protesting is admirable and useful because it's protesting, and discussion of whether a particular action was useful gets shouted down.

The example that always come to my mind is during my undergrad days, a particular group (I don't even remember who, but I think it was Earth First or an ally) decided that going out and blocking freeway traffic during rush hour was a good idea for a protest. I can guarantee that not one person in that great big traffic jam was thinking positive thoughts about the group or their message...

[Vidar]

42. Sometimes, it's all you can do.

[gratuitous]

44. It took a while, but there's your winner

When the hearing or the system is rigged, when the rules of decorum are designed to shut out a particular viewpoint, when the powerful are just going through the motions before handing down their judgment from on high, "heckling" is the only avenue left. And there is no shortage of folks who will simply dismiss it, well trained as they have been to do so, and badmouth anyone who uses the only non-violent means of resistance or dissent left to them, the power of speech.

[omega minimo]

50. "took a while"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/dubo`ard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5599619#5599649

[EndElectoral]

46. If enough of us heckle they'll have to eventually cover it. Sitting on our duffs does nothing.

[Union Yes]

47. Baucus heard this protest, can be seen on his face.

Make no mistake, they fucking heard it!

Those patriotic protesters did a fabulous job delivering an incredibly powerful message.

Heckling is what Red Sox fans do to Jeter and Arod.

I saw a powerful protest, not heckling.

[eridani]

48. What else do you recommend when ;they refuse to include single payer advocates officially?

IMO, the protesters weren't nearly disruptive enough. Ooooh, we can't be disruptive or they won't take our agenda seriously!!! :sarcasm: Here's a big fat fucking clue for you. They STARTED OUT not taking single payer seriously.

HR 676 has 90+ cosponsors. More than half of doctors and nurses favor it. The public wants some kind of government involvement in guaranteeing health care by huge margins. And Baucus recognized NONE of that. There are people who died last year who couldn't afford health care who nonetheless subsidize that shitstain.

[bvar22]

51. Good Germans do NOT protest !

They just follow orders.

[mmonk]

54. Depends. If it's heckling a corrupt and dishonest government official,

I say heckle the hell away. Sometimes your voice is the only power you have.

[Fireweed247]

58. I suppose it would be bad manners to storm into DC with torches and pitchforks...

...after we watch them give away trillions to bankers but laugh when the people demand not for profit health care...but that is exactly what we should be doing.

[tekisui]

59. Publicity for a cause.