Confirmed, Mormon Web site shows Obama's mother as baptized after death

[Are_grits_groceries]

At the same time that Barack Obama sealed the Democratic nomination for president last year, someone in the Provo LDS Church temple was performing a baptism and temple rites for his dead mother.

The move is a serious breach of protocol for church members, who in the past have been criticized for performing such proxy baptisms for victims of the Holocaust.

"Church members are specifically instructed not to submit the names of persons not related to them," reads a statement on the LDS Chuch Web site. "Before performing temple baptisms for a deceased family member born within the last 95 years, members are instructed to get permission from the person's closest living relative."

Records on FamilySearch.org, the LDS Church's genealogical site, clearly show that Stanley Ann Dunham received proxy rites in the Provo temple on June 4 and June 8 of 2008. The birth and death dates of the person for whom the rites were performed match those of Obama's mother.

Dunham's name has been submitted multiple times by at least three people in three states.

“The offering of baptism to our deceased ancestors is a sacred practice to us and it is counter to Church policy for a Church member to submit names for baptism for persons to whom they are not related," Scott Trotter, spokesperson for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said in a statement. "The Church is looking into the circumstances of how this happened and does not yet have all the facts. However, this is a serious matter and we are treating it as such.”

"Baptisms for the dead" is an LDS belief that those who do not receive essential ordinances in this life can receive them by proxy. "However, the Church does not list persons as members of the Church or "Mormons" merely because proxy baptisms have been performed. Church doctrine teaches that at some point the spirit of the deceased person will be informed that a baptism has been performed on his or her behalf and will be given the opportunity to accept or reject it," according to a church statement.

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/307876/17/

They need to leave other people alone!! Do they have a little book for stamps like you get at the Piggly Wiggly except these are for soul stamps? Do they get rewards for so many souls?? How many for a toaster?

[valerief]

1. So what difference does this make? She's still dead. nt

[Are_grits_groceries]

3. It may make a difference to that person's family.

I wouldn't want to find out my Mama had been baptized by them because of the way she felt about the LDS church.

[valerief]

6. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's all voodoo anyway. nt

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. It does matter to this extent

I don't know how familiar you are with the hobby of genealogy, but there is a rule that a genealogist does not post information about relatives who are still living. And it is also considered proper to acknowledge sources. The LDS people who are doing this sort of thing don't do either. I have my family tree up at a couple of popular websites, with citations, including quotes from exclusive interviews I have had with older family members. I have found LDS people stealing my work lock, stock, and quotations with no citation given. These same people went on to include LIVING members of my family, including full names, birthdates, etc--and also posted that THEY had been baptized. These kinds of people know no bounds--what is next? They are already stealing other people's work and invading people's privacy.

Genealogists have become more suspicious of people asking for information, which is a shame. I've been doing research for over 30 years, and it used to be a hobby where people were always willing to share information freely.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. They go beyond doing this to dead people

I've found LIVING relatives (who are Unitarians and have no truck with the LDS church) who found their names on the rolls of those who were baptized. The thing that creeped me out is that when confronted with this, they would not tell HOW they got the information, nor would they stop doing this. It's getting access to records which is the problem here.

[Xipe Totec]

2. I got news for you

I'll wager dollars to donuts that one of your ancestors has already been posthumously baptized by the Mormons.

So, technically, you're a Mormon too.

Trust me, as a genealogist, I know of which I speak...

:hi:

[depakid]

4. My grandfather has!

I was pretty amused (though not surprised considering his public profile) when I saw that in the records.

Deal wih Mormons is- only Mormons can go to the "higher heaven" or something like that. Also, only "bad mormons" can go to hell.

In Grandad's case (he died well before I was born) I suppose it could go either way- maybe not the right way, based on Mormon criteria.

[Ohio Joe]

7. Really?

Do you know why they do it? I mean, if they think I'm mormon, can I get stuff from them?

[regnaD kciN]

9. Yep, if you write to them...

...they'll send you ten more wives for free! :rofl:

[Xipe Totec]

21. It's part of their mission on earth

I don't mean that in a derogatory way; that's just part of their beliefs.

They want to trace the entire ancestry of man to Adam and Eve...

The nice part of it is that they don't mind sharing their database, which is enormous.

There are millions of rolls of microfilm in the Salt Lake City vaults, photographic copies of birth, wedding, and death records from all over the world, in every language.

You can look for your own ancestors starting here:

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp

enter the names of the earliest of your ancestors that you know.

The earlier they are, the better the chances they are already in this database.

kindest regards,

-XT

[Ohio Joe]

23. Holy crap... My family is in there

OK, I was making a joke there but I am actually a little creeped out right now. I don't care about the baptism stuff, meaningless to me. That they are tracking people like this though... weird.

[Xipe Totec]

25. They are mostly harmless,

but they are creepy...

:hi:

[sohndrsmith]

39. This is a genealogical database - not a religious one.... (?)

In fact, It's the best search engine I've found online. I've found more about my Native American/tribal lineage here than anywhere else.

[Xipe Totec]

46. It is a genealogical database, yes

But the motivation for creating it was religious.

[havocmom]

40. My father and uncle were both 'baptized by proxy' when my cousin joined the collective

I hope both their souls are haunting the daylights out of my creepy cousin. Neither of the men were members of ANY church as they were both agnostics who refused to be hypocrites.

And big news for the Mormon church fathers: I don't care how many proxies join up on my behalf, you guys aren't the boss of me, never will be and I ain't going anywhere you are. My heaven or hell is of my own making and not some place full of control freaks swearing in dead people they couldn't convince in life.

[Soylent Brice]

48. fuckers got my great great great great great grandfather.

my dad is going to go BALLISTIC.

[SidDithers]

31. Free underpants!!!..nt

Sid

[havocmom]

41. betting they charge for those

;)

[Kitty Herder]

45. My mom says they're pretty expensive. (She wears 'em.)

That's not right, in my humble opinion. If they're going to require people to wear funny underwear for the rest of their lives while also requiring them to give 10% of their income to the church, then they ought to throw in the flimsy undies for free.

[TahitiNut]

24. Yup. Doing my own genealogy, I found one of my great uncles was baptized by the Mormons.

Since he was a Norwegian immigrant in the early 20th century, I thought it quite dubious. The family (and state) religion was "Norwegian Lutheran."

[dflprincess]

32. My cousin's daughter converted to Mormonism

and set about getting dead relatives baptized. She asked me if she could put my dad's name in. I told her okay. On the one hand, I sort of appreciated that she thought of a great-uncle she had never met and it really doesn't hurt anyone and made her happy. And, I'll admit, I figured if anything might bring my dad back from the dead, being baptized a Morman might be it (though it would have been a pity if came back just so he could smack me for allowing this).

[hfojvt]

5. the person doing the baptizing is probably related

“The offering of baptism to our deceased ancestors is a sacred practice to us and it is counter to Church policy for a Church member to submit names for baptism for persons to whom they are not related,"

By the genealogies done Obama has millions of relatives, including Dick Cheney.

[depakid]

13. Might be contrary to doctrine, but at least in my particular case

No one in the extended family is (or would ever consider) becoming Mormon.

In addition, according to the records, the ritual was performed in LA- where none of them except my parents and I have ever lived.

The rest are fom the deep South.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. All I know is

that NONE of my relatives are LDS (I've been tracing my lines for over 30 years), and the person who posted MY family tree at the largest free genealogical site not only noted that they were all baptized--they baptized LIVING relatives of mine (who happen to be in their 90s, but are very much alive and kicking). Now it would seem to me if these LDS people are, indeed, relatives, they would know if someone who was their kin was alive or not.

Anyway, site admins understood my problem, but the miscreant never acknowledged anything and the LDS Church said they didn't know anything either, even with the "sealing date" and location given to them.

I could see maybe and LDS person baptizing my 9-great grandmother, because who knows? They could be related. But to baptize a living person who is NOT LDS and think that is perfectly fine goes against my grain.

[LostinVA]

17. Tell that to Anne Frank

[regnaD kciN]

8. Haven't the Mormons baptized everyone who ever lived by now...?

:boring:

[Kittycat]

11. No - I told them I was a Born Again Christian.

They put me on the "Do not knock list".

[anigbrowl]

10. Meh, I don't care. It's like praying for someone.

I don't believe in such things so it's not going to bother me whether they do it or not. It's not as if it makes any practical difference to anything.

[Sal Minella]

15. Except that the people piddling around with this nonsense could be

volunteering in soup kitchens or thrift stores, doing something useful for the living (JC or somebody suggested that once iirc) -- why waste time piddling around over names of people who don't exist any more?

I know people who are not "religious" as such but do believe in some sort of afterlife, and they would be justifiably angry at having their relatives' "spirits" diddled about with like this. What hubris.

[customerserviceguy]

30. There are only two possibilities

One, is that the Mormons are right, and everybody gets a second chance to "choose" their Mormon posthumous baptism, or that they are full of shit, and they have no power whatsoever to diddle about with anybody's soul, if such a thing exists.

Let's just put it this way: If I am absolutely convinced that I am dead, and that the Mormons were right, then I will take their baptism. I really don't put a lot of stock in that happening.

At least they are "inclusive" among the people who are going to knock on your door pushing their religion. The JW's believe that only 144,000 are going to make it to a blissful afterlife, and they've got millions of members. What a sales pitch: "Hi, come join our church, and if you can be a better member than I've been, or millions of other people have been, you win the big prize!"

[DemBones DemBones]

44. No, the JWs have this covered. When they got up

around 144,000 members and the world hadn't ended as predicted, they decided that JWs who aren't part of the Remnant (the 144,000) going to Heaven will live on "paradise Earth" forever.

[Vidar]

54. "Paradise Earth": sounds like a disco.

[anigbrowl]

35. You could say that about any human activity.

[LostinVA]

18. Do you realize the insult this is, especially to Holocaust victims???

It is NOTHING like praying.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. It does if they are looking into records of living people

Then it violates a person's right to privacy. This happened to my living relatives who were "baptized" by some Mormon genealogist who arbitrarily decided that they must be dead since they were over 90 (which is stupid if they truly knew my family tree. We've had folks live into their 90s and beyond since 1682). To have someone's name posted online as being deceased when they are not is upsetting and unsettling--I still don't know how this person got my living relative's names (not from me--rule of genealogists online is not to post names of living individuals on your trees).

[NightWatcher]

20. why are the Mormons molesting dead people?

be it verbally or physically, they have no right to push their religion on anyone (alive or dead)

[Sal Minella]

22. This is far worse than the door-knocker people --

trying to molest people who are too dead to say, "Get the fuck off my porch. Now."

[Solly Mack]

26. S'Ok. I (posthumously) baptized Brigham Young as a Pastafarian

[Xipe Totec]

27. Yes, but what denomination?

Vermicelli, Zitti, or Pene?

I would guess Pene, because he was such a dick.

[Solly Mack]

28. Bucatini...because he sucked

[customerserviceguy]

29. While I agree that the Mormons are batshit crazy

how is this much different than people of another religion praying for the soul of a person of another faith who died?

As far as I'm concerned, neither thing has any effect on what happens to us after we croak, if anything does.

[havocmom]

42. Praying for is not same as signing them up for a team they refused in life

And it is VERY offensive to a lot of us.

[customerserviceguy]

52. I'm an atheist

if anybody prays for my supposed soul after I'm dead, have they signed me up to be a believer in their faith, or any other?

[Mind_your_head]

33. WTF?

:wtf:???

Doesn't pass the smell test. Desperate people make up all KINDS of sh*t, such as this.

Peace,
M_Y_H

[Kitty Herder]

34. They baptize any names they can find.

They've baptized both Hitler and Holocaust victims, for pity sake.

This crap about not submitting names of non-relatives is bullshit. For one thing, the names don't have to be submitted by members. That's not even the common way that the baptisms are done. The most common way that it is done is this: The church finds names of deceased persons and teenagers are baptized for them en masse, as a youth activity. It's great fun being dunked 60 times in row. :sarcasm:

[TankLV]

36. I just baptised Joseph Smith and Brigham Young into MY Church of the Gay Agenda...they're no longer

MORMONS!!!

We sodomized and buggered their corpses in absentia - and all fifty of us participated...

A good time was had by all...

I know they'll understand...

[Mind_your_head]

37. Amen n/t

:sarcasm:

You're not gonna "bugger" my corpse w/o my permission ya slimeeeeey bastids! And that's MY truth!

[TankLV]

38. not for awhile at least - we're still recovering...

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[malaise]

47. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Thankfully she was cremated so she won't keep company with you in the graveyard.
Bubye!!

[lumpy]

49. I am not a believer in this riduculous Morman hockus pokus.

Based on some basic tribal superstition best left behind in the jungle, it is of no consequence ultimately.

[malaise]

50. I have no religious beliefs period

They're all mumbo jumbo

[navarth]

51. I used to think Mormons were harmless nuts

and then I read 'Under The Banner of Heaven' by Jon Krakauer.

These people are fucking weird and scary.

[FreeState]

53. In fairness the people in that book are the equivalent of the KKK of Mormonism

the mainstream church is nothing like the groups described in the book.

[navarth]

57. mmm okay....

Fariness = good. I'm with you there.

I don't really want to be argumentative with you, I just want to point out that the killers in the book aren't the only Mormons talked about. The book covers a lot of the history of that religion.

If only HALF of what is said in that book is true.....sorry, but they creep me out. So to speak.

[piratefish08]

55. oogedy boogedy pow - you're mormon!

abracadabra kebang - you're catholic!

womp bomp a lu lomp - you're jewish!



religion is funny.



:crazy:

[Xipe Totec]

56. And this sirloin steak is now a fish

which I can now eat on fridays.