Mormons baptized Obama's mother after her death, violated their own rules --Provo, UT, Herald

[nichomachus]

http://www.americablog.com/2009/05/breaking-confirmed-mormon-web-site.html

At the same time that Barack Obama sealed the Democratic nomination for president last year, someone in the Provo LDS Church temple was performing a baptism and temple rites for his dead mother.

The move is a serious breech of protocol for church members, who in the past have been criticized for performing such proxy baptisms for victims of the Holocaust.

"Church members are specifically instructed not to submit the names of persons not related to them," reads a statement on the LDS Chuch Web site. "Before performing temple baptisms for a deceased family member born within the last 95 years, members are instructed to get permission from the person's closest living relative."

Officials of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have yet to confirm the incident, but records on their FamilySearch.org genealogical site clearly show that Stanley Ann Dunham received proxy rites in the Provo temple on June 4 and June 8 of 2008. The birth and death dates of the person for whom the rites were performed match those of Obama's mother.

Someone really needs to bring the hammer down on this bizarre cult that is poisoning the US.

They broke their own rules in violating the Obamas' autonomy and choice as to their own religion.

They violated their own Articles of Faith in their vitriolic and dishonest campaign in CA.

Can we please take away their tax exemption now?

[Stevenmarc]

1. It's not hard to see why the Mormons are the fastest growing denomination

when the cemeteries are full of potential new members

[Tangerine LaBamba]

3. Yeah, but,

their tithing sucks .....................

[Tangerine LaBamba]

2. They are so full of themselves,

so fucking twisted, that they PRESUME to know the wishes of people who have already died?

They're harmless, but offensive as hell.

No, you cannot take away their tax exemptions because they do loony things - how about the Roman Catholics every Sunday who are convinced they are watching bread wafers and wine turn into the flesh and blood of a long-dead guy which the believers then devour? That's pretty nuts, when you look at it objectively.

Mormons - can't live with them, can't put them out of our misery ...............................

[juno jones]

6. at least transubstantiation has a history

stretching back far further than christanity. Humans seem to like it for whatever reason.

Baptising and aquiring dead people for the cause is a little nouvelle for my tates and a bit tacky as well.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

8. So, if a loony practice is old, it's OK,

but if there's a new kid on the block, it's not?

To me, crazy is crazy, and not all humans "like" the concept of transubstantiation. The ones who stop and think about it find it absurd, even a bit creepier than baptizing the dead, which could be interpreted as a way of the Mormons staying busy and keeping out of worse trouble - like proselytizing to the living ...................

[malaise]

9. Fucking twisted

is kind. This is fucking bizarre.

They're all nuts.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

10. Well,

that's my thinking about anyone who voluntarily takes up membership in an organized religion or who embraces the concept of That Big Man In The Sky: they're all nuts.......................

[malaise]

14. Ditto

:hi:

[Baby Snooks]

26. Mean old man in the sky....

They believe in this mean old man in the sky. The god of Abraham. The god of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. But of course each believes "their" god loves them more. "My god is better than your god..."

I actually believe in the mean old man in the sky. I also believe he threw the big black rock at Abraham. And hopefully next time he won't miss.

[rzemanfl]

11. "Harmless, but offensive as hell." Can I have that for my tomb-

stone?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. Sure ...........

I dreamed of you last night, probably because Edna carried away the final thumb drive package yesterday. Enjoy it, and be well...........

[rzemanfl]

24. Thanks, and you too. n/t

[rzemanfl]

25. Wait, the dream.............

it was the "layered look" email....

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. Breach of rules? They do this all the time!

I had one steal information from my genealogical postings (I know because they contained my exact words for citations, which included interviews), added LIVING relatives, and then baptized the lot. To me this is an invasion of privacy and against all the rules of on-line genealogy--you don't post names and data of people who are alive. And it is nice when you lift citations from someone else to give them credit--after all, it wasn't the LDS person's grandfather who gave her an interview!

I complained directly to the person--no answer, natch. I complained to the LDS Church, who told me they don't do these things, even though there was a link to online proof that someone did. No apology. No nothing.

Genealogy is a hobby where most folks are glad to share information--but this incident has made me a little leery of doing so.

[El Supremo]

5. Could you please give me a link to their proxy lists?

I have lots of genealogy information on the internet too.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. wish I could

All I know is when I go online, some trees have "sealing dates" by names. When you see that, you know you've found an LDS person who is doing this sort of thing. Personally, I try to steer clear of the LDS site, because I have found that their information on trees lacks citations and cannot be trusted without verification.

[El Supremo]

15. Yes.

What I saw of my was full of inaccuracies. I'm a member of the NEGHS and I don't understand why they work with and have field trips to the LDS.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. You, on the other hand, have my respect

NEGHS is a great organization.

[queenjane]

20. This is why I keep my research off the net

I will happily and readily share with other genealogists whom I know (either directly or via a referral or introduction from a trusted third party). I do not have a website, I don't upload data to Ancestry.com or Rootsweb.com, and I don't post information on genealogy message boards or lists.
Along with all the normal lunacy you attract ("hey, send me everything you've got on "--no intro, no nuthin', OR "I don't care that you have official documents, my ggg-Aunt Gertrude NEVER had an illegitimate child! Take that down or I'll sue", I found a distant cousin, an elder in the LDS (he was a convert, no family history in this church), who gave me tidbits on a brick-wall family. Found some of his "data" on-line, with info on "sealed" dates for his male ancestors. I noted he didn't "seal" his female ancestors, lucky them! I stopped corresponding with him because he was posting blatantly incorrect data (to hide family scandals), and wouldn't answer even simple questions about where he got his info. The moment I see LDS sealed crap, I cut the person off. It is so presumptious, invasive, arrogant, and, well, nuts, I'm not hanging around.

Oh yes, I do consider all religions nutty. Some are just loonier (and more destructive) than others.

And you're right: the LDS site has tons of incorrect info, including on my own family. No citations, no sources. Anyone can post anything. I avoid it like bubonic plague.

End of rant! }(

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. More and more folks are like you

and I sort of wish I had been. I went online as soon as you could and was among the first to upload information to the sites you mentioned. I didn't dream what would happen. I have to say, though, that through my website I have met some really nice cousins, one of whom cleared up a 100 year mystery and the other who generously gave me a lot of data she got while taking a genealogical trip to the East Coast.

I am considering writing a notation on my uploads saying that I will put a curse on anyone trying to "seal" relatives-and since I'm a direct descendant of one of the Salem "witches" they might take it to heart!

[TheCentepedeShoes]

13. My folks were divorced before my

dad died in 1963. MD remarried in the 70's and converted to Mormonism. She claims to have had Dad baptized in the early 80's and she certainly didn't ask the permission of his closest living relative. I would have remembered. Did it to HER dad, too, or so she says. Not sure she would have qualified as closest relative back then as she had two living older sisters.
This stuff is creeeeepy...

[El Supremo]

16. A somewhat biased description of the reason for this can be found here:

http://www.watchman.org/lds/baptdead.htm

[marshall]

17. Probably a cousin of Obama's was behind this

The way the system is set up now it takes all family members' names in the computer system that the church uses and prepares them for submission to the temple for ordinances.

[CEDAWrocks]

19. 7 degrees of relationship -- must be ok

"Church members are specifically instructed not to submit the names of persons not related to them," --- I guess from that, the Mormons have done nothing wrong. With their vast genealogical database, I'm sure all Mormons are related to each other! It is like the 7 degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon. i.e. Brigham Young had a ton of kids, one of these kids was related to Joe Schmedlap, Joe Schmedlap was the distant uncle of Fred Imaname, Fred was the cousin of Stanly Ann Dunham and because the person doing the proxy was related to Fred -- no violation has occurred!

:-)

[marshall]

21. The name of the submitter can easily be found by registering for the site

I did so, but I haven't been able to confirm how the person may be related to the Dunham family.

The rule was made because the church was loading entire parish records into its database to be processed through the temple ordinances. Also some individual members were submitting names of famous people that they weren't necessarily related to. This is what the church issued an order to stop. It is still acceptable for Stanley Dunham's cousin or whatever to submit the name.

[recoveringrepublican]

23. How do you tell if they baptised someone? I put in my married name and found a bunch of my

husband's relatives. Just their name and Soc Sec, along with birth and death dates.