Justice Department is a Joke and loses all crediblity

[lovuian]

within a few months in office

We might as well as have Gonzales as the nation's Attorney General

Change where is the change

[AndyA]

1. I would be interested to know if Holder signed off on this report.

It would certainly seem to go against everything he stands for.

Congress needs to do its job now, and investigate and hold those responsible accountable for their actions. And that means all the way to and including idiot son, if necessary.

No more excuses! We cannot change the mess we're in if we don't take steps to prevent people from doing the same things again.

[lovuian]

2. if they think

we don't know what is going on
they are sadly mistaken

[bvar22]

34. Congress can NOT prosecute.

All they can do is investigate (and they don't do that well), and then refer their finding to the Department of Justice. The DoJ then decides whether to prosecute.

Anything done by Congress at this point is a complete waste of time.
There is absolutely NO DOUBT that serious crimes have been committed.
It is past time for Holder to appoint a legitimate Independent Prosecutor.
Let the chips fall where they may.

The ACLU has pointed out that the Statute of Limitations will expire this year on some of the worst abuses.
The longer the White House delays, the more it looks like they are protecting War Criminals.
There is NO time to waste in a Congressional White Wash.

AFTER the DoJ prosecutes these criminals, I will support a Congressional Truth and Reconciliation Hearing.....but NOT before Justice is delivered.

[L0oniX]

3. It must be nice to be above the law.

[DZenz]

10. TIME TO ACT

I don't know about you, but I think it's time to stop
cooperating with evil. I for one will not participate as a
juror at a U.S. District Court ever again, at least not until
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of the bums are prosecuted
for war crimes and crimes against humanity. I'll show up, but
I will stand up and insist on being dismissed, excused, for
those reasons. If I am held in contempt, so be it. I will be
looking forward, not backward, if that's the principle we are
to live by.

[EFerrari]

4. It's going to be a long time before the Justice Department is up and running

again. Bush destroyed or corrupted just about every inch of our government. It's going to take a lot of work and some time to clean it up.

[lovuian]

5. I think the patient has coded

and DIED today

whatever HOPE for CHANGE is DEAD with announcement

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. What announcement?

I just got back from a final exam
:shrug:

[EFerrari]

12. The decision is provisional and being hyped by the corporate media.

I don't buy it myself and you know how important this is to me.

[Winterblues]

13. How do you clean it up when you just ignore it and say the past is past so,let's move on?

It will never get "cleaned up" until accountability is found..

[EFerrari]

22. I don't see any evidence that anything is being ignored.

Obama sometimes says things like "move on" but that's not what he does. If he wanted us all to "move on", those memos would never have been released, for example.

[Renew Deal]

6. Would the torture memos have been released if Gonzales was running the department?

The change is right in front of your face, but some are too blind to see it.

[Winterblues]

16. You do know it was a Federal Judge that ruled they must be released?

The ACLU filed a suit after filing a FOI request and it was ignored and the Judge ruled the material must be released. It would be difficult for the Justice Dept to against a Judge's ruling.

[Renew Deal]

19. Like that ever stopped the Bushies from defying an order.

Are you kidding? You think this stuff would be released if the Bushies were there? There was another case where they were ordered to release documents and they just didn't.

[Bluenorthwest]

8. Holder has declared that he is the same as Gonzales

who did no wrong. I'm willing at this point to agree that Holder and Gonzo are ethical peers.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

9. Do you have a link? I just got back. I searched around GD and I keep missing it.

[EFerrari]

15. Here's one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3863065&mesg_id=3863196

[SemiCharmedQuark]

17. I thought Holder had not signed on to this report?

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

20. He hasn't that I know of. And it's even money who leaked it,

Cheney's people or Holder's people. The one wants to give us the impression that there will be no investigation and the other wants to keep measuring public interest.

Too early to give up on Mr. Holder and too much going on back channel, imo.

[lovuian]

23. ok I will hold a little hope out here for Holder

but if he DOESN"T DO ANYTHING
then like I said Justice is dead



I just feel like Holder needs to come out and conduct an investigation and kick some major butts

but I don't see that happening folks

[EFerrari]

24. I was not a fan of Holder's appointment.

But if we know that there is a lot of resistance to single payer, you can only imagine how much more there is from Cheney et al to avoid a prosecution.

Cheney is going to lose this one because he's not as smart as he thinks he is. None of them are and that's why they were called "the crazies" the last time they were in power. Cheney/Rumsfeld vastly overplayed their hand. They put in a global torture program and exposed themselves far too much to be able to cover it up now. They're vulnerable in all kinds of venues, not only here.

My vote is to keep the pressure on to prosecute but to know, too, what Holder is up against, trying to put this together when his department is still barely limping along and in the face of overwhelming pressure to let it go.

[lovuian]

26. Lest not forget Bush and Rice combo they are part of this too

Cheney placed a warning that the underlings weren't going down

that was SUCH a threat

[EFerrari]

27. I think what he meant was what Mark Danner said last week on Moyers --

the whole top of our government is implicated -- the White House, the Principal's Committee, some members of Congress like Pelosi, Harman, Rockefeller, Feinstein, Justice, the State Department, the Pentagon, CIA, FBI to an extent. Cheney means the underlings won't go down because there won't be the political will to go after so many at the top. He's talking about blackmail, I think.

[lovuian]

31. Yes they are all implicated and if Holder does not prosecute

and Obama moves on

the implications is complicity to Torture

that there was NO PUNISHMENT is inexcusable

why Because we tried Japan and Germany on the same exact charges

thats why

today they may get away with it but tomorrow watch out

the Credibility of the Administration is riding on this

[EFerrari]

33. I agree with you. And, every single sector of our government

that has a mechanism to get the prosecution underway is implicated. That's what we're dealing with.

I'm not willing to ever let this go either. Ever. And, it looks like the administration is trying to get their stuff straight before they move. There are already two inquiries going on in the Senate. The House -- where is the House? Conyers must be writing another letter.

[Inuca]

11. Some facts

as an alternative to the cries of "Hang Holder" or "Holder=Gonzalez" or "Obama=Bush".

The report relates to an investigation that originated and was conducted UNDER MUKASEY. It was supposed to be released in January I think, but was blocked by Mukasey. Holder has NOT signed on the report. What has happened in terms of additional investigations or changes to te report, and how many of the Mukasey crowd, if any, are still associated with it, I have no idea.

All I am saying is that 1. this is NOT a Holder/Obama report; and 2. it is not final. That's all, folks.

[EFerrari]

14. AND, yesterday there was a report that Cheney et al are fighting backstage

to soften up this report.

Don't buy in yet.

[Inuca]

18. Of course they are trying

to quote Cheney himself: So? It would be news if they were not fighting. I don't know what the end result of this investigation will be. All I am saying is that there is no end result yet.

[EFerrari]

21. Yep. Agreed. n/t

[Badgerman]

25. Holder is a protogee of Janet Reno...nuff said! n/t

[SerfinUSA]

28. Nothing is going to happen

Then some other crisis will come along and everyone will forget. It's over.

[leftofthedial]

29. We've been bamboozled!

Had!

Sold a bill of goods!

Hoodwinked!

Bait and switched!

Fed a shit sandwich and had it called chocolate.

[whistler162]

30. in mid thought! Always fascinating to wonder what the

whole conversation was about!

Care to start at the beginning instead of at the rant!

[EFerrari]

32. There's a link in #15. nt

[WhiteTara]

35. the wheels of justice grind slowly and

very fine. I understand your impatience though.