Let's face it: Money talks and bullshit walks. Those with the money make the rules and are immune.

[BigBearJohn]

end.of.story.


(unless you can get millions of apathetic americans
organized to take the streets)

Sorry for the negativity, but it seems everywhere I
turn, those with money manipulate everything to their
advantage.

[leftstreet]

1. Are Americans really apathetic?

:shrug:

That's not my experience.

We need leadership.

[BigBearJohn]

2. that's a good point. Know any leaders?

[leftstreet]

3. hehe

Don't laugh, but out here in the West the last time I saw everyday people really psyched by a 'leader' was with Ross Perot.

I didn't really get it, but I think his outsider persona and his economic message was what got people going.

[BigBearJohn]

5. You bring up yet another good point. We need a leader with ethics and a fat wallet.

Wasn't Ross Perot's family threatened as it began to look like he might win?

Those with power won't allow themselves to lose that power. They will use major
resources to fight HARD against anyone who seriously challenges them. Look at
JFK. I believe he was gotten rid of because he was threatening the Fed. Reserve.

[Hannah Bell]

15. funny, i agree. & he had the money to fund a national organization.

i'd sure like to know the backstory on that episode, cause from what i've read, he wasn't exactly an outsider to power politics.

[leftstreet]

17. Yeah, I'd like to know that backstory too

Without him that election may have gone much differently

[TheWatcher]

4. No they wish to be conned.

They are lapping up all of the "Recovery" news and completely ignoring reality.

They can't be bothered.

[BigBearJohn]

6. as an old friend used to say, "what else can you expect from an amplifier with a 20-watt hum?"

[billyoc]

8. They vote for American Idol as much as they do in presidential elections.

[MrSlayer]

7. Yep. The way it's always been and always will be.

We operate under a delusion that we have freedom and justice. We have neither.

[BigBearJohn]

9. When I was 20 years old, there was a book called "How I found freedom in an unfree world"

Think I'll try to find it again.

[Hannah Bell]

16. Harry Browne, libertarian. he ran for president too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Browne

wall streeter, old money.

easy to find freedom when you're rich!

[hfojvt]

25. well he also made some money selling band uniforms to Iowans

maybe made a decent living on the libertarian lecture circuit

[Hannah Bell]

29. he came from money. he was always well-off. or so i read.

[hfojvt]

32. not always. He served four years in the Army.

Maybe he got a cushy spot. Wiki does not call him a Korean war vet, and he was in the Army from 1951-55. At the same time my dad and his brothers were joining the National Guard to avoid Korea.

edit: but I was just saying he made decent money, probably, with his best-selling books too.

[Hannah Bell]

36. well, here's the pedigree.

http://www.wargs.com/political/browne.html.

Father:

Edson Bradford Browne (Bradford), radio announcer and producer, b. North Adams, Mass., 31 Dec. 1890, d. Los Angeles, Cal., 29 Apr. 1975


Grandfather:

Browne, Isaac Snell, 1850-. Charles A. Browne and Brother. <19-->
Subject Charles A. Brown and Brother (Firm)
Explosives industry -- Massachusetts -- North Adams.
Browne, Charles A., 1842-1907.
Hoosac Tunnel (Mass.)

Isaac = brother & partner of Charles A Browne, inventor of an electric fuse, etc., used for construction of Hoosac tunnel, his business interests allowing him to retire independently wealthy. Son CA Browne Jr. attended university of gottingen, germany.

http://books.google.com/books?id=EDzcUuGVZnIC&pg=PA289&lpg=PA288&ots=3EhwA7RUXC&dq=Edson+Bradford+Browne



Great-grandpa, etc.:

Albert Gallatin Browne was born in Salem, Massachusetts, on December 8, 1805...

Prior to the Civil War AGB was a partner in the firm of Whiton, Browne and Wheelwright, ship-chandlers. During the War he became an agent of the United States Treasury, appraising contraband and other properties that fell into Union hands....

Albert Gallatin Browne, Jr. graduated from Harvard in 1853 and attended Dana Law School... After law school he studied at Heidelberg University, receiving his Ph.D. in 1855. Upon returning to Boston he opened a law practice with John J. Andrew, and in 1861 was appointed military secretary to Governor Andrew. AGB, Jr. was also a journalist. As a reporter for the New York Tribune, he accompanied Albert Sidney Johnston's expedition to Utah against the Mormons in 1857. In 1874 he became managing editor of the New York Evening Post, resigning a year later. In the 1880s he was a correspondent for the New York Herald...

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:h4ZYNS1l16wJ:oasis.lib.harvard.edu/oasis/deliver/~sch00161+Albert+Gallatin+Browne&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Hannah Bell]

42. Dad:

"The Cuckoo Hour and The Nit Wit Hour. Two very important comedy series of the early thirties...almost no one seems to remember Bradford Browne and his Nit Wit Hour, which was sort of the CBS answer to the NBC Cuckoo program. The Nit Wits were a comedy troupe working in a very broad, satirical style -- and did some pretty frantic parodies of other CBS programs of the day...The only recording I have of Browne is of a song-and-patter show he did with partner Al Llewellyn -- and which reveals him to have been a very fast-paced, self-referential type of comic, somewhat in the manner of Colonel Stoopnagle. I want more!"


Lux radio theater: Bradford Browne...singer....

BRAD AND AL
Role: Host

LUX RADIO THEATRE
Cast member

1939

"Bradford Browne of New York city, widely known as a radio personality
and native and former resident of this city, is also to take
part in the program, giving a reading of "The Courtship of Myles Standish." Mr. Browne is the
of I. S. Browne of Flushing, L.I. N. Y., and the late Mrs. Browne and
is the brother of Harry B. Browne, former star of the stage and screen."

Guessing this is brother Harry, even though it's C, not B, since the birthplace is the same:

http://www.fandango.com/harryc.browne/filmography/p9068

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0115005/


NYT 1948

"Scientists Elect First Church Head...Harry C. Browne, former actor & radio executive, was today elected president of the first church of christ..."

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20613FD3458157A93CAA9178DD85F4C8485F9&scp=1&sq=harry%20c%20browne&st=cse


Grandma's obit in the NYT:

MRS. ISAAC S. BROWNE.; Formerly Active in Political Affairs in New ...

Besides her husband, are two sons, Harry C. and Edson Bradford Browne, and three daughters, Mrs. Helen White, Nliss Mary C. Browne and Mrs. George S. ...

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50B16F73A5D167A93C0A8178DD85F418385F9&scp=4&sq=bradford%20browne&st=cse

[MrSlayer]

19. You're in luck.

Here is the whole thing in .pdf

http://www.scribd.com/doc/9663870/How-I-Found-Freedom-In-An-Unfree-World

Provided this is the same one you are referring to.

[BigBearJohn]

22. Wow! Mr. Slayer! You rock! THAT's IT. Thank you soooo much.

:toast:

[MrSlayer]

23. You're welcome.

I'm going to read it myself. Thanks for turning me on to it.

[Berry Cool]

44. And the book was only three words long:

"I got rich."

[nancymorino]

11. Justice for rich and poors

As a Culinary Arts Colleges' student in management, I also had a course in ethics. Money always guarantee a certain advantage in face of justice, but the most flagrant examples are when facing law representatives on the street. Judges in courts are less likely to be influenced by the accused's status.

[MrSlayer]

14. The problem is, many times the money can buy you out of ever having to see a judge.

Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Richard Steele]

28. Hello, Nancy.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[hfojvt]

10. that's a very simple story

the truth is a little bit more complex. Nobody is totally immune. A rich person like Martha Stewart still went to prison. A rich person like Hearst still had his daughter kidnapped. Reggie White, Walter Payton and John Ritter were all fairly rich, but they still died young.

I am not sure what you are trying to acheive. Everywhere I look I see moderate income people who are doing pretty well, or should be or would be if not for their own personal struggles.

[BigBearJohn]

12. there's always an exception to the rule, but the rule applies nonetheless.

[hfojvt]

20. there are hundreds of exceptions

and what exactly do you want to be different? It seems like you just want us to sing the Crow anthem and I don't see a reason to do that this soon after our last two victories. Phyrric though they seem at times.

[BigBearJohn]

21. That's good. I find no fault with your attitude. Be happy if that works for you.

[sandnsea]

13. And Martha Stewart got out

and went right on with her life, no stigma whatsoever, nobody refusing to put her on a television show because she has a felony. And yes Hearst had his daughter kidnapped, but somebody without that name or money would still be sitting in jail.

It is true that nobody can beat the reaper.

Most of the personal struggles I see people have would be made significantly easier, if not completely removed, with a million dollars in the bank.

[hfojvt]

18. a million dollars. Why a million?

And why should Martha Stewart have a stigma attached to her? Are you saying she should have gotten life? That punishing people even after they get out of prison is somehow justice?

I think the struggles of many people would be easier if they had $5,000 in the bank, and also that that is well within the reach of most people.

Then there's Webster Hubbell, who wrote

"I billed more than $750,000 for the firm, which netted me $150,000.
But my expenses continued to outrun my earnings. And my stress level
was, if anything, higher than ever." "Friends in high places" Webb
Hubbell 1997 p 149

His personal struggle was such that he could not live on $150,000. Is there something wrong with 'the system' or something wrong with him?

[JI7]

24. she is saying unlike Martha Stewart other people DO have Stigma attached

which would make going on with their lives a lot harder than if they were Martha Stewart.

[hfojvt]

30. so what though?

That still did not make Martha immune from serving prison time in the first place and if she killed somebody or drove drunk or smoked pot she might very well serve time again.

As far as stigma goes. Some of that comes from fear of recidivism. If you have stolen before, can you be trusted to not steal again? If you have killed or raped before, can you be trusted to not kill or rape again? Martha is free from stigma not just because she is rich, but because her crime does not seem as dangerous.

Also, if the stigma is bullsh*t, then why should Martha be subject to the same bullsh*t as everyone else? It's not a case where her money buys her immunity from justice, but where it buys her immunity from injustice.

[Fumesucker]

26. Martha Stewart went to prison because she had even more powerful (and richer) enemies..

And no one is (yet) rich enough to completely deny biological disaster.

[hfojvt]

31. and presumably because she also broke the law

but who is immune from not ever having more powerful enemies? Bill Gates was losing his anti-trust case against the Clinton administration. Texaco got sued into bankruptcy and the tobacco industry paid huge settlements. Where was their immunity?

[Fumesucker]

38. And how many who break that particular law end up in prison for it?

Of course there are exceptions to the rule, just like there are exceptions to every rule including this one :) , but Bill Gates is still one of the wealthiest people on the planet.

The fact is that high level white collar crime is rampant and yet executives going to prison for those crimes is so rare that it almost always is headline news.

[Richard Steele]

27. As it was, so it is and shall be. K&R

[Mudoria]

33. What would DU be without negativity?

[BigBearJohn]

35. A revival meeting.

[Hannah Bell]

39. social truth = negative

[BigBearJohn]

41. 'xactly.

[TexasObserver]

34. Sadly, you are correct.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

40. spam

[Psychic Consortium]

43. They are going down. Obama is working on it.

Right now they have him over a barrel.
But he will do it. They make a big mistake
to cross Obama. He is ruthless when it comes to fighting
evil.

Ask the Somali pirates he shot dead in their tracks.