bullying makes kids psychotic

[undergroundpanther]

BEIJING, May 4 (Xinhuanet) -- Children who are constantly bullied are at greater risk for developing psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations or delusions as they hit adolescence.

British researchers said Monday children who were consistently victimized by their peers at ages 8 or 10 were twice as likely to have psychotic symptoms by the time they hit adolescence. That risk was even greater if the bullying was particularly chronic or severe.

Researcher Andrea Schreier, PhD, of Warwick Medical School at the University of Warwick in England, and colleagues said bullying -- especially when it is severe or chronic -- can have serious consequences for some children, and may even act as a trigger for people who are genetically predisposed to schizophrenia.

The study, published in the Archives of General Psychiatry, included more than 6,400 children in Bristol, England, who were evaluated annually from ages 7 to about 13.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-05/05/content_11316303.htm


This study is not bullshit,Because what was shown in that study,it happened to me. I was misdiagnosed as schizophrenic for years,because by the time I lost it,(around age 13)psychiatry itself was still in denial about the effects of trauma and bullying on people's mental health.The shrinks gave me ever increasing doses of anti-psychotic drugs of different types and none"worked".Because I was not really schizophrenic, I was traumatized bullied for years until I just cracked up,the "hallucinations" were alters. It is amazing to me that people haven't figured out how abuse triggers mental illness and how being around abusive people and psychopaths authoritarian and narcissistic personality types actually harms people unfortunate enough to grow up or attend school and be around the toxic personality types. Certain personality types, behaviors and abuses they do to others and the bystander effect,the just world theory and enabling all combine into a very crazy making mix for those targeted by bullies.

We need to do something with the toxic people in our midst, the abusers,the bullies, control freaks,assholes and fake'alpha' types.
http://fact.on.ca/news/news0001/np000107.htm
They are who cause humanity to be so messed up.
The Inuit were onto something with the bullies/psychopaths in their midst. They would observe the person without a conscience, and one day the hunters would take this asshole on a hunting trip,push the tyrant bully into the ice and let him die there,and because they did not tolerate bullies in their culture their lives were more peaceful,and humane.Not perfect but BETTER off...without toxic bullies.
http://www.ranprieur.com/readings/americanpsycho.html
And interestingly primitive cultures have better outcomes from mental illness than"developed" nations.
http://books.google.com/books?id=2IoOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=primitive+societies+schizophrenia+outcomes+study++developed&source=bl&ots=520pjuLYEP&sig=pkHaLjaB9n_uqGz5jIsLMQf2lbA&hl=en&ei=WpwCSq6KF4uNtgfJ3NyEBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2
Wonder why?
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/official_culture.htm

http://ponerology.blogspot.com/2008/04/how-societies-regress-to-become.html
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-psychopath-means
Psychopaths make up just 4% of the total U.S. population, but the damage and devastation they wreak is extreme and widespread.

Psychopaths, also known as sociopaths, comprise 20-25% of the prison population, but 50% of those who have committed serious crimes. However, the majority of psychopaths are not violent—most are users, scam artists and shady businesspeople. There is some evidence that psychopaths may be overrepresented in the fields of business, politics and entertainment.

Read more: http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/how_psychopaths_exploit_others#ixzz0Eo39IkP7&B


Read about how eliminating bullies changed a culture in a babboon colony.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-retool-their-culture.html

[polichick]

1. "most are users, scam artists and shady businesspeople"...

Our culture celebrates sociopaths, who often go far as politicians, ministers and CEOs.

Sociopath glorification is also big in U.S. schools, which tend to look the other way instead of dealing with sociopaths on the football team, cheerleading squad, etc.

I too have read how other cultures deal with them - imo the Inuit have the right idea!

Important post - k&r

[cbc5g]

25. heh I know when I read your posts it is going to be something I agree with

+1

[polichick]

42. Well thanks! :)

[raccoon]

37. What do the Inuit do, put them out on the ice or feed them to polar bears? nt

[polichick]

43. Both sort of - they took the sociopaths hunting and pushed them off the edge of the ice...

Here's an excerpt about it from a fascinating book on the subject of sociopaths:

http://books.google.com/books?id=mU05YWM2aUUC&pg=PA135&lpg=PA135&dq=Inuit,+sociopath&source=bl&ots=GcUv2eq7iO&sig=XazlN3nQIL79DBfcSwyR9iOuzdE&hl=en&ei=yg8DSrGRBOSDlAe-_7nyBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA136,M1

[annabanana]

2. Whereas, bullies START OUT psychotic. . .n/t

[Deja Q]

80. Thank you. And if we stopped bullies, we'd have fewer victims living nightmarish lives.

It may not be realistic, but we sure as hell can try to put things to rights.

Hey, Levi says it's unrealistic to teach abstinence or saving one's self for better reasons to have sex. Well, he's a pig and a waste of a human life, so why the frig should we take his excuse either?

[get the red out]

3. Absolutely!

And our culture DOES reward bullying behavior! I have heard perfectly respected members of society say that bullying is "normal" and it is just the "normal" kids getting on the "abnormal" kids; the reverse appears to be true.

The worst bullied kid I knew is now a college professor, so he was so abnormal and useless, right? He has had good help in adulthood dealing with these issues because the psychological effects did catch up despite being a very successful person in life. His life was a living hell from this stuff growing up, mine was bad enough but being female the male bullies didn't usually find it interesting enough to physically threaten me every hour (though I was regularly attacked physically by one guy in 7th grade, in the classroom in full view, but I was not a pretty girl whose Dad had $$$ so who gives a damn?).

I wonder how many people will respond to this thread taking up for bullies everywhere, questioning your sources as "not proven" or saying if bullied kids would just fight back (often one against 5 or 6 at a time) these bullies would just go away like it was a "Leave it to Beaver" episode or something. A lot of people don't want to look at this problem. They miss the 1960s where kids will be kids and need to settle their own childish disputes, and wonder why we can't just think like that now?

Thanks for the links to other cultures, good stuff.

[exboyfil]

6. I was bullied up until 10th grade until I got into a group of good

friends who watched my back and I watched theirs. The first day in Junior High my daughter was bullied by three 8th or 9th grade boys (she could not identify them). As far as I can tell, and I talk to her often - the incident has not been repeated. My daughter fortunately has a group of high achieving girls around her who are really good friends - interested in academics and making something of their lives - a far cry from most of her classmates.

Most teachers are useless when dealing with discipline problems. I knew I had an issue in 9th grade when I observed someone burning the tire seat of my bike, and my Honors English teacher was standing next to me. I pointed out the incident to her, and she did absolutely nothing. If an adult in authority does nothing, then how can a kid 2 or more grades lower deal with a group of bullies???

The best thing my parents ever did was move out of California. It literally saved my life.

[tomp]

9. trauma is well known to cause mental AND physical illness.

see the work of Vincent Felitti on Adverse Childhood Events (he does not cover bullying in particular, but landmark study anyway. The field of psychiatry has not put the pieces together yet.

also, bullying has been reported as the biggest health fear of young people.

it's the society that makes us crazy. we live in an abusive society.

[closeupready]

97. "we live in an abusive society" - correct.

See, as reference, all the violence depicted in popular culture.

[The Hope Mobile]

85. The best thing I ever did for my kids and myself was move TO California

There are bullies everywhere but most in (at least our part of) California are more aware of the fact that bullying is immature and screwed up behavior. It still happens but almost always it involves republican kids whose parents pretend its not happening but have actually always done the same themselves. I find the higher the percentage of progressives the lower the incidence of bullying and the less its condoned. Moving to California saved my life because its much less hypocritical and crazy-making at least where I live. Grew up in the midwest and it was royally fucked to be honest.

I think if I'd grown up here with less hypocritical parents my childhood would've been dramatically more pleasant.

[Maraya1969]

4. I'm really sorry that happened to you. I wish I had the ability to change people's pasts

because I would do that for you.

[Fumesucker]

5. The reason primitive peoples tend to have better psychological outcomes seems fairly obvious to me..

We are evolved for a neolithic lifestyle of associating with a small band of people, maybe ten to thirty or so, that we know intimately.

Modern society is very different from what humans are evolved to deal with, we are constantly exposed to total strangers and a great many of us have a hard time dealing with that.

It's a truism that shy people are not shy (or at least as shy anyway) around others that they know well, they are shy around strangers and relative strangers. Shy people are at a greatly increased risk to be bullied in modern cultures (ie cultures in which we tend to deal with a lot of people we do not know well).

[BoneDaddy]

44. You are missing the obvious answer

THEY NEEDED one another to survive. They understood that they were part of a dynamic system of interdependence and not separate individuals.

[Fumesucker]

63. To the outgoing, our modern society is much easier to deal with

Than it is to the shy.

I kind of suspect you aren't shy, which is why you don't see it.

A fish does not notice the water in which it swim, likewise the outgoing do not notice how alienating our society can be for those who are not outgoing.

[BoneDaddy]

64. My guess is that primal people were more worried about survival

than whether or not they were intro or extroverted.

[Fumesucker]

65. You and I are talking past each other..

There really isn't any point in continuing the conversation.

[BoneDaddy]

68. Yeah I believe we are...

I don't believe it is possible to compare modern man and primal man in this context of "shyness". Will move on.

[Fumesucker]

69. The only difference between "primal" and "modern" man is culture..

Take any child today and raise them from birth in the primal culture and they will be primal, the opposite is also true.

[BoneDaddy]

70. No doubt ..but the cultural void between the two

is enormous so it is kind of hard to compare the modern man's concepts of introversion and extroversion to people who existed in a totally different reality than we do.

For instance: We would describe an emotional problem from a psychological point of view where they would most likely see spirits, demons and/or the gods as the perpetrators.

[Fumesucker]

74. Things are what they are..

However you may try to explain something doesn't change the actual nature of that thing.

Lightning remains the same thing whether you think of it as a discharge of static electricity or bolts from Thor's hammer.

Edited for speling.

[BoneDaddy]

76. True...but how we interpret them makes all the difference

from culture to culture.

The meaning we ascribe things is what is different, regardles of how the phenonemom IS.

But...let's take the concept of land ownership. When the Europeans came to America they had a long standing, albeit faulty and unfair, idea of ownership, usually forced at the end of of a musket. The native primal populations had no name for the ownership of land as it was an entirely new idea for them

[Fumesucker]

78. The thing is though, that the shy *aren't* shy in a small group where they know everyone..

So the difference between shy and not shy basically disappears in that sort of milieu.

It's only when the shy are faced with people they don't know well that shyness becomes an issue, ie: in a culture where you must interact with a lot of strangers, where it then becomes an at least moderate handicap to social and even monetary success.

It's also worth noting that shy people are not necessarily physically fearful or timid people, shy people skydive, rock climb and bungee jump just like their non shy brethren.

I suspect that civilization will eventually evolutionarily select out shyness to some extent since it is an impediment to breeding success in larger societies, assuming of course that civilization lasts long enough for this to happen.

[NashVegas]

83. Primal People Better Understood Their Basic Needs and Emotions

They didn't have an army of wannabe psychiatrists telling them that showing anger and upset was being immature and childish and wouldn't do anything to help them get what they wanted.

[Echo In Light]

7. After Columbine, there was a saying that one saw at some online forums re this topic

"Columbine made sense to me."

And it wasn't usually used in an inflammatory sense of glorifying mindless violence, but of understanding the rage that can lead to the chronically abused having a psychotic moment where they end up either killing their tormentors, or anyone who fits the bill, so to speak.

Now, I realize that someone will likely respond to this, all snarky and pissed off about the perceptions of those involved in Columbine...so before any crusades are embarked upon, I'm NOT advocating this type of violence, or attempting to personally defend the shooters involved in that sad situation. Just sayin'.

[Mopar151]

8. At the time, I got an E-mail

From a gifted young friend, titled (IIRC) "For anyone who has ever thought, just a little". The point was, that the adults in that case, and many others, had abandoned their responsibilities as social leaders. Further, that many adults in their lives were trying to fit into the kid's cliques by enabling.
I went to a high school where jocks were king. Fortunately, we had some teachers and pack-leader kids who had enough (graviatias/sand/balls) to keep things from getting really ugly. Sometimes.

[Echo In Light]

10. I hear ya. Jocks are often the repubs of that social environment, & their hangers-on, authoritarians

Being a weirdo-hippy-stoner-metalhead type I found myself in those type of situations at times. Sometimes I fought the good fight, other times got my ass kicked. But you're right, many teachers don't wanna be involved when it comes to the very real problems re social hierarchy in their institutions - microcosms of society.

[ourbluenation]

21. "jocks are often"..."many teachers don't"...

reminds me of "most liberals have no morals", etc, etc. same shit, different day.

sign me,

mother of two jocks, a boy and a girl, and wife of a veteran teacher.

[Fumesucker]

23. I dunno, when I went to school the jocks were out of control..

And got away with pretty much whatever they wanted..

Some of them were OK but a lot were abusive jerks.

Purely anecdotal I know so feel free to ignore my input.

[HughBeaumont]

57. It's not really anecdotal, it's the way they are in EVERY school.

Too many adult enablers, student-pack mentality and worshippers from both groups is why they continually get away with their behavior.

[Dorian Gray]

84. Where I went to school

The captain of the basketball team was best friend's with the wheelchair bound boy (Muscular Dystrophy, I believe) who lived down the street from him. He took the bus to school with him every single day, watched out for him, and did homework with him.

The quarterback of our football team was the son of a doctor who gave up his practice to dedicate his life to a charity he co-created that gave free healthcare to the uninsured in our community. He, like his dad, was very civically minded.

I wasn't good friends with either of them (despite growing up in the same town), but they weren't bullies or nasty human beings.

Not all jocks are bullies, and not all schools have the same experiences.

(I know that isn't always the case, and in college I came across some football players who were drunken louts and assholes.)

[Echo In Light]

30. Feel free to read into it what you will, but that's how it pretty much was at schools I attended

That not all/every jock or teacher fits 100% into that generalization should be obvious, a given. I knew and know some from either camp. Up until this yr I've had good relations/communication w/our daughter's teachers - but they've been very liberal minded women, so that makes the difference.

I mean, beyond that, I could relay countless horror stories of shit I saw where so called top students in any area were involved and got away with it ...but whatever. No point.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. Thank you

As a teacher who has written curriculum that teaches kids how to recognize and respond to bullying, I am offended by this broad brush.

[get the red out]

14. "abandonded their responsibilities as social leaders"

That's the best I have ever seen it stated.

[havocmom]

86. Spot on, Mopar! Too many adults ARE enabling bullying so kids will like them

Have seen that too often. Parents want to be friends so the kids will think they are cool. Such parents have not grown up themselves. If an adult relies on someone with very limited life experiences thinking they are cool, that adult is letting the kid(s) define who and what the adult is. That is fucking pathetic.

Parenting is hard work and done with an eye toward the future. One cannot be best buds and do a decent job. Kids will often do things they need to learn to avoid. Enabling, accepting, passing bad behavior off as normal, or a 'right of passage' does nothing to help them. All the kids will learn is they don't have to take responsibility.

Guidance, setting standards and holding youngsters responsibility is not being a control freak, as too many here on DU accuse those who advocate for parents to parent. One can guide, set standards and hold youngsters responsible AND help them to grow empathetic, creative, joyful people.

Bullies need to be set down. They need to know there will be consistency in rule enforcement and excuses won't be tolerated. To those who will flame me for being harsh, I say: allowing the bullies to set the standards for a culture has not served us especially well. And at least I am not advocating the Inuit remedy.

[Tim01]

11. I know people who were in the public school system during the time of columbine,

People who were picked on at school, no sympathy for the Columbine bullies. None.

A number of kids saying "I'm not saying what they did at Columbine was right. But I can understand."

[tabbycat31]

35. I graduated the year before Columbine

and I was bullied to the point I was scared to go to school from 4th grade to HS graduation.

I can see where things like Columbine are coming from.

[get the red out]

13. I understand

I had the same reaction at the time of Columbine, I understand how a person can come to have such hatred and desire revenge for the harm done to them, I know personally how the mind can turn to hate. At the same time I do not know how someone murders another human being. I am grateful I do not understand how those boys were able to commit such a terrible act, despite understanding the rage.

If you get angry responses it is because they didn't read what you actually wrote (though I have to say that is not something unknown to happen around here).

[JonLP24]

20. On top of that a juvenile's brain isn't fully developed

I know I went threw some crazy mental changes growing up. I changed personalities several times before mellowing around 17, 18. I did some stuff at age 14 (stealing a car(I was passenger, not driver) and had police tail us for 79 miles in a GeoTracker(trust me we weren't going fast) that I'd never do today. I would never even think of doing that today. I'm not justifying their actions either I'm just stating I know where you're coming from but proper warning signs and right kind of intervention would've been helpful. I know what unresolved anger is like from bullying but I was not picked on that much, it was not until I was 15,16 that I was no longer bothered.

[bullwinkle428]

27. Except that the Columbine killers were NOT victims of bullies.

Dave Cullen, who wrote a great book on the killings (and was interviewed recently on the anniversary of the killings on Rachel Maddow's show), dispels many of the myths that came about in the aftermath.

http://www.davecullen.com/columbine.htm

People do a real disservice to genuine victims of bullying by lumping despicable little sociopaths like Eric Harris and his incredibly messed-up follower Dylan Kleebold in with them...

[Echo In Light]

34. And to be honest, the incident itself isn't something I ever examined in any comprehensive way

It had been more than ten yrs since I dropped out of high school when that occurred.

Obvious somewhere along the line something went wrong with them, be it biological/headful of bad wiring, or the right/wrong chemistry of two together who wouldn't have done what they did separately. Either way, the point I made has to do w/public reaction and the climate of opinion re social violence in schools - wasn't trying to specifically tint the various people involved in Columbine in any specific shade.

[Mopar151]

41. Plenty of blame to go around

Harris and Kleebold wer'ent beamed in from Titan. There were a lot of things that occured just because parents, teachers and peers simply did'nt give a shit, and hoped the two little wierdos would go away.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. That's not true

Harris's parents had been taking him to see counselors and psychologists for years. He was most likely a psychopath and there isn't much you can do for that.

I have a good friend who lives in Littleton and her kids grew up with both Harris and Kleebold. Harris had been a problem nearly all his life and his parents were literally at their wits end trying to get help for him. No one hoped these kids would just go away.

The misinformation that is still being circulated about Columbine is sad. And it certainly isn't helpful.

[bobbolink]

72. But it's so much easier to blame the parents. Makes others feel safe.

"There but for the grace of God go I."

Not something we hear much anymore.

"Progressives" like to assign blame just as much as conservatives. :(

[bobbolink]

61. However, he's ignoring a lot of direct testimony from that time.

He has his own ax to grind, and he's not really being true to history.

[janet118]

28. er . . . But who were the bullies at Columbine?

There's a recent book by reporter Jeffrey Klass that looks behind the myths surrounding the Columbine shootings. Here's a portion of an article in USA Today that discusses the media stories vs. the reality of what happened there:

The two teenagers who killed 13 people and themselves at suburban Denver's Columbine High School 10 years ago next week weren't in the "Trenchcoat Mafia," disaffected videogamers who wore cowboy dusters. The killings ignited a national debate over bullying, but the record now shows Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold hadn't been bullied — in fact, they had bragged in diaries about picking on freshmen and "fags."

So the perpetrators were more like bullies than victims?

I see those two boys more as Leopold/Loeb-type fantasy killers. They talk about snubs, real and imagined, in their writings, not bullying.

I do think bullying has produced violence and mental illness, but I don't think Columbine is a good example.

[Mopar151]

91. It 's pecking order, not polariziation. n/t

[backscatter712]

39. While I can understand the sentiment, that wasn't quite what happened in Columbine.

It did happen elsewhere - the Virginia Tech shooter felt he was being bullied and persecuted, and he was schizophrenic, so he may have been hallucinating as well.

But at Columbine, Eric Harris wasn't bullied, rather he was a bully - he was a vicious psychopath. Dylan Klebold was suffering from depression, and he was suicidal, and probably got prodded into his role by Harris.

[bobbolink]

62. It's interesting you say this with so much certainly, when that was DEFINITELY

not the testimony at the time.

[Mike 03]

87. It is an important issue, but the Columbine killers were not bullied by anyone.

There is a new book on this subject. There are tons of myths about the Columbine killers. Little of what we "know" is true.

[Wednesdays]

12. Any minute now, we'll get the chest-pounding posters

who say, "We're raising a generation of sissies. All those kids need to do is sock the bullies once, and they'll be left alone! It worked for me, so it'll work for anyone!" :eyes:

[The Doctor.]

19. LOL... actually... it DID work for me.

Naturally... it will not work for anyone.

[VenusRising]

46. 5 hours later and none of those type of posts have been made,

But...

any minute now.....

:eyes:

[Wednesdays]

48. Was that reply supposed to be snarky?

So sorry those types of posts didn't show up on this thread, but I was playing the percentages. I do know what I'm talking about:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3812739&mesg_id=3814474
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5501133&mesg_id=5501338
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3812739&mesg_id=3813345
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3812739&mesg_id=3813951
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5501133&mesg_id=5505227
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3812739&mesg_id=3812787
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2740836&mesg_id=2741099
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3812739&mesg_id=3814991
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3812739&mesg_id=3815026

I can provide much more upon request, snarky or otherwise. :hi:

[VenusRising]

49. So it's better to preemptively attack people

in a passive aggressive manner than dealing with them when they present themselves?

Got it.

:hi:

[Wednesdays]

50. Pot...meet kettle

Your injecting yourself into my original reply was...what, exactly?

Oh yeah, and I just handed your ass back to you. Instead of an admission of defeat, what I get back is...more snark. And of course the follow-up answer to this post will undoubtedly be...more snark.

[VenusRising]

53. You handed nothing to me.

You defeated me in nothing. There wasn't a competition.

I think the "here come the..." or "Cue the..." are negative posts and do nothing to further the discussion. It merely allows people to come in act in a way that they may not because they feel they are being misrepresented or personally attacked. It takes a lot of courage to post differing opinions, but they do help us see how others see or experience the world. So rather than belittle them by attacking them for past transgressions, it's better to deal with them on each individual basis.

It's nothing personal to you, just the tone of those types of posts that I think are unhelpful.

[Echo In Light]

71. Wednesdays was staving off the sharks who smell blood

There are undeniably certain thread topics that attract specific a-holes who look for topics that they realize will involve those they don't like posting ("whining," as they'd categorize it) and will of course chime in, usually with one of two primary forms: Joe Six Pack's "Get Over It!" type of insensitivity and denial, or, a snide, intellectual snobbery replete w/personal attacks, all depending on the issue, and which perceptions need be attacked or championed.

[VenusRising]

79. The only problem is that after he said that he cited posters who have been bullied

and chose to stand up for themselves by fighting back.

So, in that respect, I don't think that he was staving off anyone but those that have been victims of bullies in the past. And most people that have been bullied would never EVER call any other victims of bullies "sissies".

But that's my opinion.

Thanks for your response, though.

[HughBeaumont]

59. Yes, because as we all know, EVERY bullied kid is physically able to defend themselves.

:eyes:

No trouble to the victim or revenge by the bully or his pack will ever result from it either. SURE thing.

:eyes:

Did anyone ever stop to think that some kids just don't WANT to fight? Did anyone ever stop to think that no matter how much self-defense advice you take from well-meaning adults, it isn't going to matter if you're 5'8" and weigh 135 and the bastard picking on you is 6'1", sociopathic, doesn't care, is likely high on cocaine and is likely a way faster and better fighter than you are?

Did anyone ever stop to think that some kids just want to live their lives?

More importantly, does anyone ever stop and think that the perfect situation where the bullied kid can just fight back, beat up his tormentor (which often doesn't happen) and not get into any trouble for it whatsoever just does not exist? Eyes are everywhere. There's NEVER a situation where you're fighting and no one sees it. That's part of the bully's M.O. . . . an audience for his domination.

I mean, HELLO!! Did the thought of grabbing a chair or a bike chain or a bat or any other weapon to blast these fuckers' grills with until they couldn't talk anymore ever cross my mind? I'm pretty shit sure it did.

It's just that I knew all too well about how school administrators work. Most of the people who bullied me were teacher's kids. Who's word are they going to take? Who's the community, the herd, going to believe? The "four eyed marching band fag" or the exemplary honor student, son of the teacher?

I'd have gotten sent to juvie in a fast heartbeat, the school would have been glad with one less psychopath on their hands, my life would have been ruined even worse than it already was and the assholes would continue . . . to be assholes.

That's reality, kiddies.

[undergroundpanther]

92. The bullying person(s)

Have no desire to sympathize with the target,and most people do not identify with the bullied ones, so, in effect the targeted person's suffering of the bullies attacks becomes something other than what it is,( it becomes a cliche'like whining, blame the victim etc.) Rather than the honest situation that the bully CHOSE to cause pain to another person because the bully wanted to do it and could get away with it..

I was bullied for years,I still have alot of psych issues.Ironically the bullies never took me on by themselves,they KNEW I would wipe the floor with the bully in a one on one fight. Instead the cowards attacked me in packs.And fighting 6 or 8 people is not easy to do I ain't Bruce Lee.And there were bystanders there that could have helped , tons of bystanders students and teachers.The bystanders are guilty by proxy because they also CHOSE to not get involved,their own anxiety and fear of becoming bullied like me overrode the empathy and desire to help impulse.

Until the "strong" are taught to protect the weaker,then bullies will keep getting away with their' choices' that traumatize people and make them lose it.

[lostnfound]

15. Seems like an important connection to make.

And one I've never thought of. Thanks for posting.

[whistler162]

16. What a load of twattle!

and yes that is all the comment that "study" merits!

[The Doctor.]

18. Really...

And on what basis do you so declare?

UP is likely one of the handful of posters on this board who has a better handle on psychology than most psychologists/psychiatrists I know. If she thinks the study has merit, I'd wager she's right.

I'll take a closer look myself. If you have some specific concern with the methodology, let's have it.

[whistler162]

96. Experience...

but hey I maybe nuts but I am not psychotic.

[Fumesucker]

22. I agree, absorbing constant abuse for years on end does absolutely nothing to the psyche..

:eyes:

[Duppers]

29. What a ignorant pronouncement, whistler !!

Your statement makes one wonder which end of a social equation have you've been on,
the abused or the abuser !

Guilt ridden much?!

[whistler162]

95. Put simply....

they never did take me up on the paying a fee to beat me up but it did stop it!

Now the next question is why are you attempting, badly, to start a fight?

[RedCappedBandit]

32. So a scientific study is a load of twattle,

but your immature, baseless, thoughtless knee-jerk response is somehow credible? hehe

[krabigirl]

40. ugh...

[JeffR]

52. Well, fine then. We await the results of your study that shows bullied

kids grow up to be fine well-adjusted members of society, who like nothing better than to just hug everyone, gosh darn it!

You do have your study underway, of course, right?

Right?

[formercia]

17. I have to deal with it every day n/t

[cbc5g]

24. No doubt, intense bullying made me psychotic and republican when i was young

Thank God I had friends that helped me out of that psychosis ... and drugs/ganja

[saltpoint]

26. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist and don't play one on tv, but

a few take-aways from your post would include my wishing that you had not been bullied, my wish that others not be bullied, that schools be more vigilant regarding bullying, and that the shrink community had been a bit more current a whole lot earlier on this and many other topics.

That's not a very scientific response, but that's what's in the bucket this mid-morning.

[Duppers]

31. ugp, as always

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:hug:

[RedCappedBandit]

33. Victimization can have dire consequences.. k+r

[Faux pas]

36. Sorry for your suffering. I've seen the Discovery Channel reports

bullying and how they've found that bullying screws up the frontal lobe. The the whole thing is sick and sad and the saddest thing (imho) about this is that the bullied usually don't get revenge on the one's who caused their pain, they strike back at society randomly.

I stood up to a 12 yr old male bully when I was eight, in defense of my younger brother. I got the crap beat out of me but the ass left me alone after that, I think he looked at me with some kind of awed respect. When my son was in 7th grade, he took on an 8th grade bully with encouragement from me. He became a hero that day among the other bullied scared kids. No one messed with him from then on.

I'm female and only experienced that one bully growing up. I don't know what switch has been clicked that has created so many bullies these days.

Thanks for posting this, it's very important and should be shared as often as possible. I hope you demons have been been defeated and that your life is filled with peace and joy.

[raccoon]

38. I don't think there are necessarily MORE bullies these days than in previous decades.

I think bullying is being talked about more nowadays.

Same as with incest, child abuse, spouse abuse, etc.

[Faux pas]

66. You're probably right. I guess mankind will never be civilized.

The older I get the less proud I am of being 'human'.

[undergroundpanther]

94. dupe

[drmeow]

90. VERY true

[woo me with science]

45. It also could be that children who are pre-psychotic

are demonstrating subtle behavioral atypicalities that set them apart from their peers and make bullying more likely.

[Tuvok Obama]

47. Thank you for putting all this together in one post

There are a lot of really great links here

k&r

[JeffR]

51. K & R.

And society ignores this at its peril. Just pick up a newspaper or turn on the TV.

[Raksha]

56. K & R

[HughBeaumont]

58. Don't I know? Look what it made me to this day.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5595267&mesg_id=5603252

And that is the worst part about it . . . the bullying NEVER gets avenged.

Far too many threads on bullying bring up bad memories. I just had to go back to the city I grew up in to install my dad's sump pump. You get a sick feeling being back there. Makes you just shake your head in mock pity at these nothings.

[hunter]

60. My hometown makes me sad too.

And happy in a way too, because there was nothing, nothing at all to hold me there.

[AngryAmish]

67. Your thesis: Getting bullied causes mental illness

(and if I misrepresent, forgive and correct me)

My thesis: Being mentally ill makes you a target of bullies.

[bobbolink]

73. Obviously, both can be true, right?

Just because the poster didn't cover all aspects, doesn't cancel it out.

DUers typically don't read LONG posts, so the poster was concentrating on one aspect.

Doesn't make either of you wrong.

[AngryAmish]

77. Absolutely right

I stand corrected in that aspect.

[bobbolink]

81. .

:thumbsup:

:hi:

[Fumesucker]

75. My thesis..

Being a bully makes you an asshole as well as mentally ill.

[bobbolink]

82. .

:applause:

[Mike 03]

88. I was bullied; it didn't make me a sociopath, it just made me depressed, anxious and shy.

Also, one problem I have with the OP is that it tries to lump schizophrenia in with sociopathy, and these two disorders are in no way related.

Psychopathy/Sociopathy and psychosis are two entirely different things. I am assuming you are aware of this.

Maybe a better approach is to admit that bullying results in mental disorders of all kinds.

EDIT: Darn, I wanted to rec this thread but it is older than 24 hours. Wish I'd seen it sooner. Great discussion.

[drmeow]

89. it tries to lump schizophrenia in with sociopathy

I don't think it does - it is labeling bullies as sociopaths (not all bullies are sociopaths but I would guess that most sociopaths are bullies) and using someone with psychotic symptoms who was misdiagnosed as schizophrenia as an example of how victims are affect by sociopaths.

[undergroundpanther]

93. First of all

sociopaths are NOT mentally ill.They have no conscience,they can't 'grow one.Therapy, medicines all of it cannot change a sociopath into a decent person.Sociopathy is a permanent condition. mental retardation is a permanent condition too,all the therapy in the world and psych meds out there, will not raise a retarded person's IQ. Likewise therapy and meds are useless in changing sociopaths into decent people.The sociopath KNOWS what he does is wrong he does it anyway and does not care who suffers.

Mental illnesses like schizophrenia is painful to the person suffering from it. Sociopaths don't suffer from their"condition"...Schizophrenia is a mental illness,and like psychiatric injuries like PSTD also,can be helped with therapy, medications or staying at a place like Soteria House.
http://moshersoteria.com/soteri.htm
(Soteria house seems like a safe, caring, free and most of all a NON_ABUSIVE environment.) (I'd love to hang out at a place like that)..An asshole free zone..

I have PSTD.And it is a psychiatric injury caused by being around abusive people, bullies,assholes and psychopaths.Psychopaths feel nothing is wrong with them,they suffer no distress,yet it seems psychopathy is a problem to everyone who comes into contact with the psychopathic person.Being around an abusive asshole can damage your psyche.

For years I was MIS-diagnosed as schizophrenic so I got the wrong treatments. I did not improve much until psychologists became more trauma aware.Once I got decent help for my real problem,PSTD,and DID, only then did I begin to feel better,sometimes.