Texas is only 6000 years old!

[Are_grits_groceries]

During the Texas State Board of Education hearings on science standards for Texas schoolchildren, BoE member and staunch creationist Barbara Cargill decided that the age of the Universe was up for vote. Oddly enough, I had some issue with that. You may vote on issues all you want, and you can even vote on morality if you’d like, but scientific reality is not a matter of opinion and cares not for the majority vote.

The National Center for Science Education has video of the moment where it becomes clear that Ms. Cargill, not happy enough to destroy biology for students, proposes an amendment to creationize astronomy as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5YWJAgJm2Q

Listening to her gives me the heebie-jeebies. About the astronomy standards, she says "…there are different estimates … they will be taught about 12 - 14 billion years ago, but this leaves it open a little bit to discuss how many billions."

It is absolutely clear from what she is saying that she is deliberately trying to weaken the teaching of the old age of the Universe. Another member queries her specifically, asking if this will open up astronomy to the teaching of literal Biblical creationism. Cargill then completely dodges the question, saying she is simply taking the language of the recommendations. But that language is clearly saying the Universe is old, and there is a small amount of uncertainty (actually, only about 120 million years) in the age estimate of the Universe.


http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/05/06/texas-is-only-6000-years-old/

This country is zooming backwards so fast in some areas, we will be voting on whether the Earth is flat before long.

[SmileyRose]

1. Well that does explain a lot.

The rest of us evolved - Texas didn't.

Snark.

[Paladin]

27. Hatred And Stereotyping Directed Toward An Entire Region....

...is specifically against DU rules. Consider yourself advised.

[Rebubula]

2. Some folks...

...are just intent on clinging to old superstitions.

That ANYONE (considering the overwhelming evidence in place) would still believe the biblical story of creation is astounding..and slightly frightening.

[Kalyke]

18. You know, the Bible doesn't say the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

That, again, is Man's interpretation.

The Bible doesn't give an age - and, as a young girl, I was taught that God's "days" could be millions of years - that is was a metaphor - and humankind, being "created" last - on the "sixth day" proves that our species, thus far, is the last "great" species in existence today.

[surrealAmerican]

24. These are people who are unable to cope with the whole concept ...

... of a metaphor. If they were to admit that a "day" could be metaphorical, they would have to entertain the idea that a deity or an afterlife might also be metaphorical.

[exboyfil]

3. I have a friend who is a pretty good engineer

but he is convinced in the 6,000 year age for the universe. Otherwise a completely rational individual.

[Rebubula]

10. yeah...

...my old supervisor and I (we are also close friends) were walking down the street and I was saying that I thought anyone that would believe in creationism is a moron.

He turned to me and said, 'so, you think I am a moron?' - I stumbled and tried to recover, but I ended up saying, 'Yes, in this situation, I do think that'

He is an extremely intelligent and rational guy...it just boggles the mind when people who are obviously very smart still fall into this trap.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hobbit709]

6. If you're going to slam TX, then learn to use the right words

It's SECEDE and BORDER. Just because Gov. Goodhair makes shrub look smart doesn't mean everyone here is like that.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. LOL.

Gov. Goodhair DOES make shrub look smart. :rofl:

[nxylas]

17. Molly Ivins wasn't

Her description of her home state as "the national laboratory of bad government" springs inexorably to mind here.

[suede1]

23. I wish the creationists would secede.

Oops, meant to reply to the OP.

[MrModerate]

5. Voting on scientific facts does strike me as pretty silly . . .

As does much of what's called public debate in Texas. Frankly, Texas is a poster child for what the rest of the world hates about America (or maybe just presents as such: having lived in Texas I can tell you that not everyone there is a member of the no-opposable-thumb set).

However, all that having been said, I didn't see Cargill trying to undermine anything except reasonableness in general, in that the notion of voting in a public hearing on textbook phrasing is just as dumb as dirt.

[Are_grits_groceries]

7. The phrasing in this case is an enormous issue.

It appears to be an innocuous measure. However as the post states, the variation the astronomy articles are alluding to is around 120 million years. She would have it seem that the variation would encompass any number. Cargill uses a partial fact from the astronomy article to support her measure. This gives her argument the patina of scientific approval.

[MrModerate]

8. Yes, but the actual change -- at least as I understood it . . .

didn't open up the "biblical age of the earth" question. By changing "approximately 14 billion" to "12-14 billion," they may have been sending coded messages to the flat-earth society, but I don't see how that would compromise teaching of the scientific consensus.

Frankly it struck me as a pointless edit, which goes back to my statement about the stupid practice of editing textbooks by voice vote of political appointees.

[Are_grits_groceries]

12. I listened again to make sure about the point.

I don't want to misstate this. She had changed the concept of an expanding universe with an age of about 12-15 billion years old to "and current theories of evolution of the universe including estimates of the age of the universe."
She is fighting for "estimates." That is the crack they will use to push through their own estimate. It is picky, but this is how they work. They are willing to look for the small possibilities that they can turn to their own devices. This is how an age of 6000 years gets in. They don't care about scientific consensus. They have the literal word of God in the Bible. Most people go "Meh." They don't see where the argument will lead IMHO.

[MrModerate]

25. I agree they're trying to sneak something in . . .

and the the old bushwah about textbooks being unduly affected country-wide because of Texas' buying power does appear to be true (although no one ever seems to talk about California's buying power, or New York's, both of which are considerable).

I just don't think this particular change is much of an entre to them. Plus every time they do their angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin dance, they look more and more foolish. They're squandering their credibility like Bush squandered America's reputation.

[JonLP24]

9. Is this a joke or is this for real?

Another source says different.

Texas prehistory extends back at least 11,200 years and is witnessed by a variety of Indian cultural remains.
http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/PP/bfp2.html

[Are_grits_groceries]

13. Unfortunately, it's not a joke.

They don't care about that website or any other at this point. They are aiming at the wording in scientific textbooks to be used in schools.

[Buzz Clik]

11. If we gave Texas back to the Mexicans, Texas wouldn't exist at all.

[Algorem]

14. you just made Chuck Norris' to-be-kicked-in-the-head list

[Cresent City Kid]

15. They use any "uncertainty" in science as "proof" of creationism

I work with a guy who believes Genesis is fact, and tries to support this in a scientific way. Of course the laws of physics have to be bent and twisted for his world to make sense. He knows that the speed of light is not always constant, so it must be faster to explain astronomical distances. I could have informed him that variation in the speed of light only goes downward from what we call light speed.

What cracks me up about him is that he won't budge on the Book of Genesis, but doesn't live by the laws of God from Leviticus. Plus he makes a good living as a computer programmer, directly benefiting from the advances of the science he disputes.

[baldguy]

19. A perfect display of the arrogance & faithlessnes of the American Taliban.

[MrsBrady]

20. My astronomy professor at college was pretty clever this semester when a student

in class asked her about creation...I can't remember the question exactly...

but she said something like...

Everyone is entitled to their own ideas, but it's not scientific...and this is a science class.
So we'll be discussing scientific ideas.
Then she just continued on with her lecture.
Just said it in a matter of fact way.

College must have some kind of better hold on this issue than public school.
The text book even covers the scientific method in the first chapter, I noticed.

[blogslut]

21. Dear Barbara,

Come up to the Panhandle. There's a http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/findadest/parks/palo_duro">hole in the ground I'd like you to fall into see:

The canyon is approximately 120 miles long, 20 miles wide, and 800 feet deep. Extending from Canyon to Silverton, Palo Duro Canyon was formed primarily by water erosion from the Prairie Dog Town Fork of the Red River, which began to carve the canyon less than one million years ago. The slopes of the canyon reveal the colorful natural history of the area.

Dating back 250 million years, the oldest layers of rock, Cloud Chief Gypsum, can only be seen in a few areas in the canyon. The next oldest and most prominent layer of rock is the Quartermaster Formation which can be seen with its distinctive red claystone/sandstone and white layers of gypsum...

[leftofthedial]

22. That explains their lack of evolution.

[Ilsa]

26. This is what the other states need to do: STOP BUYING TEXAS TEXTBOOKS.

The loss of sales will get their attention, and they'll have to examine why none of the other states in the US will buy the textbooks filled with religious mythology.

Yes, Texas is a huge seller of textbooks for the other states' school systems.