Cheating Spouse - Would you inform a friend if you were aware of their spouse's extramarital affair?

[TahitiNut]

Poll question: Cheating Spouse - Would you inform a friend if you were aware of their spouse's extramarital affair?

Let's say that you became reasonably certain that the spouse of a friend was having an extramarital affair. Would you inform your friend?

Why or why not? Does gender play a role in your decision? What if BOTH people were your friends? Would that make a difference? Under what conditions would you make such a choice?

(I'll present my own perspective in a reply to this thread.)

[aquart]

1. They'll tell you if they want to know.

Really.

[kwassa]

2. That's what friends are for.

but I'd have to be dead certain, not reasonably certain.

[ShortnFiery]

28. Yes, and providing indisputable evidence would be most helpful. nt

[TahitiNut]

63. I don't know what 'dead certain' would mean ... other than observing them copulating.

I used the term "reasonable certainty" carefully ... in relation to the term "reasonable person" (as used in law) and the phrase "beyond a reasonable doubt" ... or "preponderance of the evidence."

The question I'd think is more significant is "How is it that this person is letting me become AWARE of their affair??" I'd think they were expecting collusion/cooperation. I'd regard that as insulting, at best.

[kwassa]

112. regardless of how I found out ....

I would still tell my friend.

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoCalDem]

3. Yes.

"secrets" are toxic..and they probably already "know" anyway..

Finding out later, that you knew, and said nothing can be a friendship-ender..

[texastoast]

9. Yep

I'd be pissed if a long-time friend knew and didn't tell me. I'd feel very betrayed, not by just the spouse, but by my friend. Trust. Gone.

[SoCalDem]

13. My best friend's husband was a cheater

and i told her from the get-go that I would ALWAYS be on her side.. When she "hated" him, I would "hate" him too, and when she loved him again, I would be civil to him and friendly, as a courtesy to HER... and when she was ready to leave him, I'd be there..with a truck & a son & husband, to help her move..

Last October, she was finally ready to leave him, but had no money, so I gave her a $2200.00 interest-free loan & we moved her the day she found a place to rent. So we'd have no "money-issues", I just opened a savings account at my bank for her, so she could deposit whatever she could afford..when she could..and someday, when it's up to $2200.00, we'll settle-up :)

[TahitiNut]

24. Did you know there's no female equivalent for the term "cuckold"?

:hurts:

[SoCalDem]

27. Hmmm ..never thought about it before.. but you're right

In all my 60 years, I've only ever known ONE woman who cheated on her husband, but MANY the other way around :)

[TahitiNut]

30. Interesting.

In my 65 years, my experience has been exactly the opposite. (I'll say more later.)

[raccoon]

169. Now why doesn't that surprise me? nt

[SPedigrees]

44. You are a good friend. nt

[Hepburn]

105. You are a very good friend.

I have come sort of close, but you went much further than I was able to go. I hated the SOB who cheated on my best gal pal and treated her like shit. Anyone who knew me, knew that I was really not being civil EVER around the fucking asshole. But, I did stand by her and did help her with her divorce. And...when around the rotten SOB, I did manage to not pop his head off like the cork on a bottle of champaign.

It's a bitch, a real bitch, to be in that position.

[SPedigrees]

29. I couldn't have said it better.

It would make a difference if both spouses were my friends, however. Esp if the cheater had been a friend longer or was a closer friend.

[Echo In Light]

4. It's up to my friend's cheating spouse to cross that unpleasant bridge

There's a lot of open-ended 'depends' possibilities re that sort of thing, though. Off the top of my head, however, no, not my place.

[backtoblue]

16. yep

The cheater-in-question would need to be the one to come clean. I would tell the cheater that he/she needed to tell their spouse or I would. (might just be a threat, but they wouldn't have to know that)

[johnnie]

5. No

It's never a good idea to involved yourself in that crap. Unless you want to run the risk of losing some friends it's best to let nature take its course.

[Warpy]

6. In my experience, the wife is the first to know

because it seems like they hand you men a script when they start stepping out.

Whether or not she wishes to acknowledge the fact is her business. I've never pushed it. Some women really would rather pretend it's not happening, especially if they have kids.

[TWiley]

7. I would discuss it with her over coffee .... but, only if she were the cheater

You have been a very very naughty girl .....

[cosmik debris]

8. MYOB n/t

[anigbrowl]

10. Depends. There is no simple yes or no answer to such a vague question.

[azurnoir]

11. No not right away

but I would let the spouse know that I knew and see what happens from that point

[slackmaster]

12. Anyone who said "No" is not what I consider to be a friend

My friends are almost as dear to me as my family. Anyone whose spouse I would not rat out qualifies as an acquaintence at best.

Friends help friends move. Real friends help friends move bodies.

;-)

[TahitiNut]

31. What if the cheater was a friend, too?

(Refreshing perspective, though.)

[slackmaster]

34. That person would very likely cease being a friend to me

I'm sure that kind of scenario happens.

[bigwillq]

53. What?

If your friend cheated, they wouldn't be your friend anymore? :shrug:

[slackmaster]

154. I don't generally associate with deceitful, dishonest people

Do you?

[bigwillq]

156. If they are my friend

and they cheat, they will still be my friend. Their cheating has nothing to do with our friendship. People are flawed. You are. I am. Friends are. Unless they did something to affect our friendship, I can forgive them for cheating.

[slackmaster]

157. Cheating is more than being a bit flawed - It's a violation of a solemn promise

I forgive peoples' victimless crimes. Cheating is usually devastating to the cheater's partner or spouse, once discovered. (And that applies to all committed relationships, not just traditional marriages.)

Sex is a good way to transmit many kinds of diseases, even when precautions are taken. It puts the cheater's partner or spouse at risk of infection. When you have sex with someone, it's as if you have had sex with everyone that person has ever had sex with. Committed relationships contain the spread of diseases like AIDS.

I know a couple of gay men who have been faithful to each other since 1970. They can't get married (state law notwithstanding) because one of them is a Catholic priest. Most of the men who were their friends in the '70s and '80s died of AIDS.

[bigwillq]

163. While you raise some very good points

especially on how cheating can be devastating to one's family, as well as the disease part, I still don't see the point that I should give up all my friends who cheat when it doesn't affect our friendship.

Those friends who cheat can still be very good friends to me regardless of their sexual behavior. They can be 100 percent loyal to our friendship, and as long as they are, then I don't believe I should terminate that friendship because they cheated.

[slackmaster]

164. I'm not trying to tell you what to do or what to think or how to define or choose your friends

I'm telling you what I would do (and in fact have done). I have had the experience of discovering that a friend was cheating, and that changed my opinion of the person sufficiently that the person no longer seemed like a friend. I broke off contact and haven't gone back.

[IdaBriggs]

172. I agree with your take on this situation. Well said! nt

[imdjh]

178. Cheating friends make a liar out of you.

My friend cheats on his lover all the time. I actually don't call him my "best friend" anymore, I call him my "old friend" because I am in serious conflict about the fact that he is so systemically dishonest. I would not go into business with this man- I don't trust him. What he is doing to his partner is so much more than some high school mischief we call "cheating".

He is making a fool of the man he supposedly loves. He has every excuse and explanation you have ever heard from every cheater in history, excuses very similar to alcoholics and he can be very nasty and defensive when you call him on it. He even maintains that his partner "Doesn't want to know." Now, I will grant you that there is indeed an emotional co-dependent issue there, but the neuroses of my friend's partner still doesn't make it my friend's call on whether he should know.

IN short- he's like every wife-slash-whore who only stays with her husband for the money. That's exactly what he's doing. He claims to "love" his partner, but he doesn't love him enough to give him a choice that would cost my friend his lifestyle.

[shadowknows69]

202. There are a lot of grey areas here. Do you have absolute proof for one?

I kind of did it once and regret it a bit because the cheater in question admitted to me and a friend his indescretions but he could have just been falsely bragging because he may have thought we'd be cool with that (drunken guy talk).

[TahitiNut]

62. We seem to be of very similar minds in this.

:thumbsup:

As you can see by my posted 'perspective' (elsewhere in this thread), a 'friend' who wouldn't ell me would never hear from me again. Likewise, a 'friend' who expected me to keep a secret of their behavior wouldn't be a 'friend' any longer. 'Friends' don't make 'friends' accessories to their behavior.

[bobburgster]

14. How close of a friend makes a difference.

As someone previously said, there are a lot of "it depends" in this question. If it was a real close friend, I would first try to discreetly find out if he knew through conversation....if he knew, I'd be his sounding board...if not, I would tell him.

[MercutioATC]

22. Exactly. A very close friend? Absolutely.

An acquaintance? Maybe not.

[Soylent Brice]

15. had this dilemma 3 weeks ago.

SIL was cheating on her man. me and my wife both knew. everyone did but him. i wanted to tell him but i was on an "in-law family gag order".

pissed me off. what it made me realize was that if my wife were to ever cheat on me i'm positive now that not one fucking person in her family would have the decency to tell me.

i didn't vote because i would want to tell that person but i probably would not, so it's both yes and no.

[SPedigrees]

36. Blood relatives share the same loyalties as good friends.

----it made me realize was that if my wife were to ever cheat on me i'm positive now that not one fucking person in her family would have the decency to tell me.----

But I bet those in your own family would tell you.

[Soylent Brice]

47. probably not, considering i don't talk to them.

not one of mys bilings, parents, or any other relatives live in the same state as me anyways.

[SPedigrees]

110. Well, your friends then (I would hope.)

[TahitiNut]

65. I have to wonder what their behavior would be if the genders were switched.

Would they AVOID telling a HUSBAND but be SURE to tell a WIFE?? It's no secret we treat men and women differently. It's not all 'sexism' - at least in the stereotypical sense.

[Blue Diadem]

85. I kept quiet for a long time in a similar situation.

A long time, like 10 yrs. It was my DH's brother and his wife, and over those 10 yrs she became my best friend and I was watching him slowly destroy her. She was so sad and he was so miserable. She suspected, had even overheard him on the phone with a woman, but never asked me if I knew anything. At least that's the excuse I told myself. If she asked I would not lie.

Finally one evening, over several bottles of wine, she asked me and I told her what I knew. That began the ball rolling and she asked another SIL who was with us. She admitted to her own relationship with him. It spiraled from there. She began asking others and found out there were numerous other-women, a couple were her good friend work buddies, along with the long term affair I knew about. She had really been betrayed by a lot of people.

I was at the court house to support her at her divorce. 25 yrs later, he naturally hates my guts, she's still my best friend.

It really is an awful situation to be in. All these years later and I still feel guilty, guilty over waiting so long and guilty for telling her.

[TahitiNut]

17. (I'll post my own perspective here.)

Placeholder.

[TahitiNut]

59. Here's my perspective. First, a little personal history.

I've been married twice. I met my first wife in college. We became engaged when I graduated. Since her parents were conventional (and she lived at home while attending college), I actually asked their permission to ask their daughter to marry me. Part of my rationale was that I planned on asking her on a long weekend junket (from Detroit) to New York City ... a "present" (airplane tickets and hotel room) to her for her birthday. (Yes, I actually reserved two rooms in the hotel. It was 1967.)

I was drafted in 1969 and inducted in March. After basic training, I was sent to Ft. Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas, and assigned to the Headquarters Company of the Fifth Army. In the fall of 1968, I received my orders for Vietnam. I let my fiancee and my family know, of course. My fiancee then informed me that she wanted to get married BEFORE I left for Viet Nam ... and she arranged the wedding. Married in late November, we had a little over a week of "honeymoon" (at a motel) while she studied for final exams.

For the first six months in Vietnam, the letters (and audio tapes) went back and forth quite frequently. I'd receive about 5-6 letters each week. Then she graduated. Baccalaureate in Nursing. She got a full time job. She got an apartment and moved out of her parents' home.

Then the letters got less frequent. They were no longer signed "love" and the X's and O's were missing. They were rather bland and matter-of-fact. Then they stopped.

Stressed and worried, I called (something hard to do in those days) and arranged to meet her in Hawaii on R&R ... something we'd not planned on before that time due to cost considerations. It was November. We'd been married almost a year. Whoopee.

Her plane arrived AFTER I got to Hawaii ... so I met her at the gate. (Interestingly, she also made reservations to leave Hawaii BEFORE my flight back to Viet Nam.)

Yes, she'd "met someone" but wasn't inclined to share details. The "warm feeling was gone" and she wasn't inclined to make love ... but we did. Once. (It was good.) The next day, she 'advised' me to not make any conclusions and said she "shouldn't have done that."

Yikes.

Well, needless to say, I was a basket case on my return to Nam from R&R. My section chief asked me if I wanted to go "home." He had everything prepared. Nixon had a "home for the holidays" early return program worked out for guys who'd be returning during or right after the holidays. Since my ETS was within the required time from my DEROS, I was discharged, too. I was out of Nam in less than 36 hours of being told ... and after going through Oakland Army Base for out-processing, on a plane and back in Detroit ... after midnight on November 15, 1969. Nobody met me at the airport. (I got back before my letters and postcards saying I was coming.) It was a pretty lonely time. I got a taxicab.

I arrived at her apartment before my letter telling her I was coming. She wasn't there. I woke the manager and asked to be let in. It was pretty clear I was the "returning husband from Vietnam" ... with the jungle 'tan' and Army greens and gaunt look. The duffle bag was a clue, too.

I called the hospital where she worked. Nope. Not scheduled to work that shift. So, I called her friend (and mine, I thought), woke her up, and asked if she knew where my wife might be. Nope. Not a clue. But, then the phone rang. "What the Hell are you doing there?"

I'll skip the details ... Got an annulment. (It seemed important at the time.)

---

Fast forward. Got married in 1972 to a Buckeye. Lutheran. Masters degree. Social worker. She was (finally) broken up with an on-and-off-for-years boyfriend and, after dating for a year, we got married.

Twelve years later. We were living in Rochester, NY. Both working. She was (she said) on a business trip. I got a call from her mother saying her dad was hospitalized. So, I called her work to get a number to contact her. They didn't know. She was on vacation. (Huh???) I called her friend in Minnesota - whom I'd met on one of my business trips there - and asked if she knew where my wife might be. She asked if perhaps she was with "her boyfriend." (Huh???) Yikes.

Perplexed and suspicious/worried, I called close friends who'd just moved to Connecticut. (He was a coworker and friend. "They" became "our" friends.) In preparation to ask for any information HIS WIFE might have about my wife's whereabouts, I asked when the last time they'd been in contact with her. "She was here for dinner last night with her boyfriend." (Huh???) Well, it seems they knew she'd been having an affair for quite a while. "Why didn't you tell me??" "I didn't want to get involved. I didn't want to take sides." (Huh???)

Well, he was involved and he did "take sides" when he decided to keep quiet.

Again, I'll skip over the details ... divorced.

---

Needless to say, the question of telling a friend about a spouse's affair is one that's been personal to me.

What I find interesting about the replies to this thread and my own experience is that "reasonably certain" isn't really a question. Cop-outs are about "absolute certainty" and other quibbles. Is it necessary to actually observe copulation??? The people we both knew - friends - KNEW she (both 'she's) was having an affair. In fact, in both cases, she (both 'she's) seemed to expect them to collaborate and enable that behavior. (There's no female equivalent for the term "cuckold.")

There's no question in my mind that I'd feel obliged to inform a friend if their spouse were cheating. None.

"But it's hurtful and why 'hurt' a friend by telling them?" There's a difference between message and messenger. If a friend were about to step in an open manhole, why wouldn't I tell them?

"But it's none of my business!" Well, it IS ... and, more important, it's your friend's business. It became your business as soon as the spouse permitted you to find out. When one chooses to 'manage' the information available to another person, one is making a choice to keep them ignorant. Ignorance cannot be good.

I also see a very clear (and not self-examined) gender bias in this thread. It's ASSUMED by most that HE cheated and SHE's the friend. Wow. Of those who'd tell the friend, it's interesting that the female friend would be FAR more likely to be informed than the male friend. I guess that's consistent with my experience. (There's no female equivalent for the term "cuckold.")

I'd make absolutely no such distinction myself. Indeed I've been fortunate to have more female close friends than male close friends ... but it's absolutely guaranteed I'd inform either. Friends don't keep friends ignorant of things so important to them.

---

OK ... let the people who see sexism everywhere feast on that. I'd be deluding myself if I didn't know that there's a difference in the way we treat females and males ... and sometimes that 'difference' isn't in the conventional sense of 'sexist.' Reactive gender bias is gender bias nonetheless.

:hi:

[marions ghost]

77. Your story

is an eloquent testimonial about why friends of cheating friends should consider answering "yes" (in general, there are always exceptions, but in general). I chose yes here, and you validated that.

Everyone responding I just have to ask, how would it feel to be the last to know? Only your best friends will suck it up and tell you--only your best friends. Because they care enough to do it.
Then let the chips fall--plenty of cases here where it didn't destroy the marriage.

Thanks :thumbsup:

[Control-Z]

189. I was the last to know.

It was unbelievably painful.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

144. Dear T-N

I love you.

What a terrific story teller you are.

I cried.

No sexism.... just reality.

:hug:

[TahitiNut]

145. Thanks, luv.

If I were a REALLY GOOD story-teller, I'd somehow find a way to make myself sound heroic. Then again, maybe not. I felt anything but 'heroic' or 'strong' as I plunged into depression ... with the associated thoughts that one might imagine. I can only say that we do our 'friends' a disservice in both being complicit in keeping a secret and then not being there for them. There's just too much "I don't want to get involved" for my taste. I guess I'm too romantically influenced by "Bells Tolling" for a "piece of the main." I tend to get to know my neighbors. I tend to offer support ... without judgment or pity. I really don't know a better way to live. Maybe that's part of why I've never remarried. It's one thing to strike out and yet another to get beaned in the batter's box.

:evilgrin:

:hug:

[Soylent Brice]

152. "Friends don't keep friends ignorant of things so important to them."

spot on.

and thank you for sharing that with us. after all that heartache i'm impressed to see that you turned out so well-adjusted. you just as easily could've pulled a taxi-driver.

[seabeyond]

211. i read this last night.

i tend to hang around men way more than women. i gotta say, i would never see gender when someone is being screwed, hurt. it would never even enter my brain that cause male i wont say. BUT... i know what you mean. we seem to coddle the woman that cheats or label her whore. but then with males we tend to say evolution and just the way it is, boys will be boys or call him a pig. so though there is a difference of feel, seems like bottom line we do to both genders.

if you read some posts, men would bring their gf into gathering with friends and people sat around quietly.

i dont get that. but then, i have never tended to keep mouth shut when someone throws unethical behavior in my face or insist i participate in it. the older i get, the worse i get and i am ok with it. pretty soon i will be the eccentric old lady. sounds kinda fun and colorful

i do see though, women seem to defend the woman, men seem to defend the man.

i am an equal opportunity finger pointer, wink

i am sorry you had two women in your life that are such a poor example of womanhood and lacked integrity. there are many many more out there that aren't that way

peace to you, and thanks for sharing. others experience is always a lesson learned

btw... when i say i have to know for certain? when someone brings a bf to dinner, that is knowing for certain

[konnichi wa]

18. I've had way more than a 'reasonable certainty' but said nothing.

Both spouses were dear friends but I figured it was not my business. I also figured they would make their own discoveries...and they did.

[pacalo]

19. Depends on the situation...

but, generally, I wouldn't. I'd have to think very carefully before I informed my friend, because if the couple worked through their doldrum period, my friend may hold it against me & look at me as a reminder of the pain, particularly to her ego & pride that I knew about it.

If she were confiding in me about her suspicions, deeply hurt & crying about it, I'd be more prone to tell her what I knew.

[Dorian Gray]

91. That happened to me

my friend had a very "passionate" and "intense" alcohol and ecstasy fuelled relationship with a guy. I witnessed him cheating on her, and I told her about it.

She stayed with him and didn't call me. Probably out of shame.

Later he dumped her, and we got back our friendship. Sort of. It's been strained.

And this happened 6 years ago.

If I suspected, I would not tell my friend. If I knew for certain, I probably would. I think people should make informed decisions about their relationships. But I'd have to be certain. (No, I don't have to witness copulation. But if I caught someone on a date or saw someone coming out of the bathroom with another girl at my friend's birthday party, like I did... then yes, I would tell.)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. No. It's a personal matter and none of my business.

And, seeing that I wasn't elected God, it's not my call to judge, or interfere, in personal matters.

[Taverner]

21. No - its none of your business

If you are so inclined, you might tell the husband

[TheWraith]

23. If I was absolutely certain, yes.

If I was only reasonably certain, I'd seek more information.

[hunter]

25. Heck yeah, I'd tell.

There are health issues here too. Some people figure that once they've jumped the fence they might as well play the field.

Everyone's got a right to know what kind of waters they're swimming in.

[iris27]

84. Good point on the health issues! My mom lived with some sort of god-awful STD for years

after my parents' divorce, not knowing that's what her symptoms were...Dad had gone out and caught it somewhere and brought it back home. Of course, her chronic avoidance of doctors didn't help the matter, but she still shouldn't have had to put up with that for even a short period of time. And what if it had been something chronic/serious? Herpes or HIV?

[ginnyinWI]

26. Back in high school I had a friend

who was dating a real creep. Said creep was overheard to be making fun of her behind her back. I told her and she ended it. But this is far less serious than what you describe. So it would depend on the friend--whether she was ready to hear it or not. And whether she would be even more devastated to have someone outside the marriage know about it. Etc etc.

[seabeyond]

32. i would have to know for sure. both friends, i would address the one cheating, tell to come clean

or i will. if i dont know the cheater i would tell friend. i would expect a friend to tell me and if not i would be so pissed.

BUT

twice in life i have found someone who said they wouldnt want to know. i didnt know people felt that way, but i have learned there are those that do. i would have to respect that.

[tech3149]

33. I say yes because I was on the recieving end

Unless I knew that it was an "open marriage" situation I'm sure it would be better to be informed than oblivious. I know most guys couldn't buy a clue if they won the lottery but a relationship without a sincere level of honesty isn't worth much.

The big problem for me would be bringing up the subject and being sure of my conclusions. I'd rather shoot myself than screw up a relationship because I jumped to conclusions. If I considered them both my friends, I'd probably dig for information before ever saying anything to their partner.

[Dappleganger]

40. Someone very close to me

cheated, had an ongoing affair with a married co-worker. She confided in me, I told her that she x-amount of time to 'fess up to her husband or else.

She told him as soon as she got home because she knew I meant business. I love her to death but what she did really, really hurt--she was the last person I would have ever expected to do something like that, was never a flirt and very involved w/her family. They went through counseling and stayed together and are doing very well.

[seemslikeadream]

35. yes - transmitting viruses - not nice

[Kitty Herder]

61. Yep. A spouse has the right to know if they're being endangered. nt

[ecstatic]

37. Yes. Anonymously if necessary

Why sit back while a friend of yours gets involved deeper and deeper with a liar? How many kids have to come? How many diseases must s/he be exposed to?

[madamesilverspurs]

38. The last time I gave such information

(and I was asked if I knew about any infidelity) I was later blamed for breaking them up because I answered truthfully.

So, no.

[JVS]

39. Are there kids involved in this marriage?

[SPedigrees]

41. Another good question is whether you would rat out a cheating friend.

The answer is absolutely not.

Conversely I would tell a close friend if his/her spouse were cheating.

Gender wouldn't matter. If both were friends, it would depend on which friend I'd known the longest. If both were equally close friends I'd say nothing probably.

[lunatica]

42. If it was my best friend, yes I would tell her, but I don't know

if I would tell someone who was not really close to me. Best friendships must be based on honesty. I would also not judge if my best friend stayed with her husband. Especially if there are children involved. I would accept whatever she did.

[Deja Q]

43. Only with good cause; I saw that episode of "The Golden Girls", and Rose was lucky...

Had Blanche not tripped over the jerk at the end of the episode, their friendship would have been broken and the series would have ended. :(

[ohheckyeah]

45. yes.

I had the experience except it was my sister, the one I am closest to. When I told her, I cried and she didn't. Go figure.

One of the biggest reasons to tell, IMO, is that it's very hard to have suspicions and be told that you are just being crazy. I think most people at least have a sense that something is going on when a spouse cheats but they often end up not trusting their own instincts.

[Bunny]

46. Butt out.

No one has any idea of what is really going on in someone else's relationship.

[Liberal In Texas]

48. Doing that is a sure-fire way to lose your friend. Unbelievable that over 20 people voted yes.

What are you? In high school? Well, maybe you are.

100% guaranteed to lose the friendship should the couple patch things up and get back together.

(What a Loungy OP.)

[TahitiNut]

75. Well, don't think too much about it or read what others have to say.

After all, you might get a cramp.

:eyes:

[Kalyke]

165. I think the opposite.

If you were my friend and knew and didn't tell me, you'd no longer be my friend.

I find it far more high schoolish to not tell and let your friend live a lie.

[hay rick]

49. I voted no but

I can also envision situations in which I would tell my friend about the cheating spouse.

Answering the other questions. Gender would play no role in the decision. If BOTH people were my friends it would probably affect my course of action (or inaction). Some considerations:

Do I think the non-cheating spouse knows or suspects? If yes, I wait for them to approach me rather than volunteer information.

Am I sure? If not, I remain silent.

Do I think the news will be devastating? Quandary. Now I have to weigh the expected consequences of action and inaction and be prepared to choose one friend over the other.

[Lars39]

50. Didn't vote...but yes, I would.

He/she would need to be tested. As far as being blamed, let the chips fall where they may, some things (testing positive for something) are more important than keeping the peace.

[Dogtown]

51. "No"

Good way to lose a friend, messenger death.

[peace frog]

52. It depends greatly on the situation, however

under most circumstances I would not tell.

[bunkerbuster1]

214. My first reaction as well.

I can see times when I would tell, and times when I would not. Depends on who's being hurt and how; I'd let my own ethical grounding show me the way.

[quiller4]

54. No I would not. When a friend informed me of my first

husband's infidelity, I was not pleased. I ended the friendship. I had known for some time about my spouse's dalliances. I had kept quiet about both his actions and my knowledge.

Since then I have several times kept my lips sealed when I had knowledge that friends' spouses were unfaithful. My answer is the same regardless of the gender of a friend.

[Common Sense Party]

162. Why did you end the friendship (and not the marriage)?

That doesn't make sense.

[TahitiNut]

177. Just guessing ...

Denial :shrug:

[Common Sense Party]

204. Could be. I don't know. The situation may be much more complex

than I can fathom.

I've never been in a situation like yours or like this other poster, so I can't quite say what I would do.

But it seems to me my sympathies would reside with a friend who tells me a painful truth that I may not want to hear, rather than with a spouse who lies, deceives and tramples on (what I consider to be) sacred vows.

Everyone's mileage may differ.

[LanternWaste]

55. As a friend...

As a friend, I would consider myself morally obligated to tell him/her any relevant truths which may directly involve or concern him.

If both were my friend, I would surreptitiously approach the cheating partner and allow them the opportunity to broach the subject themselves and in their own way before I did.

Gender would not play a role.

I cannot conceive any practical scenario in which I wouldn't be compelled to do that.

[TahitiNut]

72. I fully agree. Well and succinctly said.

It seems exceedingly strange that what I regard as an ethical duty is so uncommonly respected.

[LanternWaste]

86. I would dishonor my friend if I did not tell him/her.

"It seems exceedingly strange that what I regard as an ethical duty is so uncommonly respected."

Without trying to play the role of martyr, I feel that way almost every day of my adult life. Over the course of my life, my grandfather, my mother, and my church have instilled in me a great sense of personal honor, duty, civility and dignity. I observe so many people debasing themselves in so many ways-- without a hint of guilt or remorse, with no visible or apparent sign of honor or self-dignity

Though the world may attempt to beat it out of us (and has been successful on more than a few occasions in my case), I will assiduously hold to these 'quaint and archaic' notions. Notions which know no national, political or religious borders, yet have been subdued to the point of contemporary ridicule and satire tolerated, if not actively enjoyed, by most people in the here and now.

I would dishonor my friend if I did not tell him/her. That's the bottom line.


Maybe I would have gotten along better in this respect had I been born in 15th century Europe... well, as long as I was born a rich, white, male.... :P

[TahitiNut]

111. Imagine ...

You use the word "honor" and I actually understand. "Duty" and "dignity" ... not slavish obedience and condescending humorlessness ... and I actually understand those values as well. At times, I wonder why such comprehension isn't more common.

Then, when I hear the Ayn-Randian plaudits for "pragmatism" I get a clue. Deontological ethics -- the ethics of duty and honor and integrity -- seems less common every day.

Sad.


I doubt I'd like 15th century Europe, though. Uncomfortable clothing and poor medical care. And scuba gear wasn't even invented yet.
:dunce:

[seabeyond]

213. holy moly.... can i jump on this subthread with you guys..... n/t

[dugaresa]

56. if my friend knew that my spouse was cheating on me, i would want to know

because there is nothing worse than finding out something that everyone but you knew.

[TahitiNut]

66. Indeed.

There are worse things ... but not many.

[katanalori]

57. YES, I certainly would tell -

and I am very curious as to how women vs. men answer this question. I would tell my friend the news in a calm, non-judgemental way. If my friend (be them male or female) is ok with the cheating, fine with me.
But I would want to know, and I believe I owe it to my friend to tell him/her.

[TahitiNut]

69. We (both DU and society) seem to have some definite gender differences.

It seems folks are FAR more inclined to inform a female friend than a male friend ... and females are more likely to inform than males.

Like I say ... there's no feminine term akin to "cuckold."

[rufus dog]

58. Had to do it once, it sucked.

It was a wife cheating on her husband, with a mutual friend of both of them. The husband finally asked me (after I treated his "friend" like shit on a couple of occasions) and I told him what I knew.

Worked out O.K., they are still married 10 years later.

[Kitty Herder]

60. Yes, I would tell. To do otherwise would be a betrayal of the friend's trust. But,

it would be painful to be the one to hurt them so by telling them.

[TheKentuckian]

64. Other: It depends

On what you say? About a trillion factors, though usually I'd like to stay out of it.

[Hekate]

67. Why is this coming up for you just now?~~~ My answer: It depends. I certainly would never invite....

... the cheating spouse's new best friend over to my home for dinner. Ix-nay. Nada. Zip. That would make me a party to the deception. I have strong objections to being used.

If I ran into one-half of a married couple at a public place accompanied by a stranger I would make a point of saying hello and see what happens from there. There are many innocent reasons for that situation. I might be inclined to say cheerily that I would be sure to let absent spouse know how nice it was we had run into each other.

On the one hand, I don't like to carry gossip. On the other hand, I refuse to knowingly be used as someone's cover for cheating -- and THAT I might make a point of telling to the absent spouse.

I'm sorry for the troubles you had.

Hekate

[TahitiNut]

135. Well, all the hooplah about the Edwards ... and many of the posts.

There's a "flavor" to the attitudes expressed that I found "reminiscent" of times past.

I never treated either situation as irreconcilable. (She did. Both 'she's.) I'm just dumb, huh? :shrug:

It appears I'll never learn. :dunce:

[malaise]

68. Yes if it's one of my friends from childhood

We consider ourselves family - all five of us. We're as close as thieves and all our husbands - past and present knew and know.

Friends from work and acquaintances - no.

[rucky]

70. I think I'd confront the cheater first.

and give him/her a chance to handle it.

[Ohio Joe]

71. Yes, I have

I have issues with people that cheat.

[Mike 03]

73. What a difficult question. I began to answer one way, but when I thought about it,

I changed my mind, and then I couldn't even decide.

I think it would depend how how close we were. My first inclination was to say "Yes," that it would feel like a moral obligation, but the truth is I don't know. I just don't know. I would think long and hard about it.

[TahitiNut]

76. It IS a complex question to deal with, indeed.

We get tied up in who's hurting whom and questions of "our business" and being "sure" and other such things.

Clearly, some folks may react angrily ... "killing the messenger." Well, I'm not sure a reaction is determinative in making a choice. Clearly, if one gets some kind of pleasure or satisfaction in delivering such bad news, there's something wrong with them.

As to the question of it being one's "business" ... I have to consider the fact that the spouse having the affair ALLOWED it to be my "business" by permitting me to become aware of their behavior. But what's of even more importance is that it is my friend's "business" and I'd no more keep it from them than fail to warn them of an open manhole they're about to walk into.

I find that clarity of thought regarding who's responsible for what is essential. Once one KNOWS about the affair .... either choice is "getting involved." One gets "involved" merely by becoming aware of the affair. At that point, it IS one's "business."

[Mike 03]

81. You certainly make your points well. I initially voted the way you seem to lean.

My view of everything is like that of a doctor's: "First, do no harm." That is the thing I think about: Will my action do more harm than good? That is what I would have to think about, and take many aspects of my friendship into account, and also the personality of my friend, and what the news would do to him or her.

Fascinating question.

[aikoaiko]

74. absofreakinlutely. otherwise I'm not really a friend.

[JeanGrey]

78. You bet.

[babythunder]

79. I'm always interested in how people would respond

to this type of question. Personally I think it depends on the friend because some people just don't want to know the truth about their significant other. One my friends in college had this boyfriend that everyone knew was cheating on her and when someone finally told her she lashed out against the messenger. Last I heard she was engaged to the jerk.

[Starry Messenger]

80. No.

At least not unprompted. If a friend came to me with suspicions and I had certain knowledge of the circumstances I might say something. I can't imagine just calling someone out the blue and plopping that kind of information on a friend. Dear Abby always cautioned MYOB in such cases and I tend to agree.

[Joe the Revelator]

82. There are more yentas then I suspected on DU

The correct answer is no.

[TahitiNut]

90. Never let a chance go by to blanket smear people who disagree, huh?

Cute. Indeed, you not only engage in preemptive name-calling, you do so in a way that smells of ethnic bias.

:puke:

[Joe the Revelator]

95. How does "Yenta" have anything to do with ethnic bias?

I swear, you'll whine about anything. Its a Yiddish word that developed in Yiddish theater. I'm Jewish, and I've never known anyone to take "ethnic" offense to that word. Save your "vomiting" self righteousness for someone else.

[seabeyond]

94. dont want anyone buttin into your business? so sure that is the correct answer? so,

those that insist, demand our friends be honest with us and not keep something so monumental to themselves, .... we are wrong? we dont know what we are talking about when we decide what is best for us?

[Joe the Revelator]

96. Your relationships are sacred enough to be between you and your partner

Your friends should not meddle in the middle.


It also seems that the majority agrees that is the case.

[iris27]

83. I would, and have. While fixing my aunt and uncle's computer, my

partner discovered that my aunt had regularly been making Craigslist booty-call requests and receiving them at their house while their littlest kid (then 3) was taking a nap. The kind of people who'd show up in a stranger's home in the middle of the day for sex were not the kind of people I wanted to trust my little cousin's safety to - any one of them could have beat my aunt up, robbed the house, taken the kid...yikes. So we told my uncle, which kicked off quite a loud and ugly divorce.

I also had parents who cheated on one another, off and on, regularly throughout their marriage...my dad was worse about it than my mom, but she got a couple flings in there, too. I didn't know about any of it until years after their divorce (except for the affair my dad was having AT the time of the divorce, which I then thought was the cause of their split).

IMO, what the cheated-on spouse chooses to do with the info is their business, but I'd rather receive the backlash from bearing bad news than be complicit in one person's betrayal of another.

I cannot abide liars of any kind, and cheaters are the worst. DP and I have had an open relationship for the last 6 of the 11 years we've been together for just this reason. 'Extracurricular' sex doesn't bother me, but DISHONESTY ENRAGES ME.

[jdp349]

87. I honestly don't know

I haven't been in the situation and I could make a reasonable argument for either decision so here's to hoping I never find myself in that terrible position.

[blogslut]

88. In most cases, I would not.

Until the spouse is ready to hear the truth, they will not accept the truth. If a friend asked me and I knew, then yes, I would tell.

[renate]

89. probably not as a rule, but in some cases I might

It would depend on whether there were kids, what the financial-dependence situation was, how emotionally strong or fragile the person was, stuff like that. I have one friend whom I would tell because I know she would not only want to know but could more than take care of herself emotionally and financially; I have another friend who (like me) is financially and emotionally dependent on her husband and whose life would be changed irrevocably for the worse if she found out he were having an affair. It's not my place to decide whether my desire to be honest is more important than her desire to continue leading a happy yet oblivious life. But that's if my friend were happy in his or her ignorance; if he or she was being emotionally or physically abused or something, I might consider telling, to give an extra impetus to get out of an unhappy relationship. That's when the "would/wouldn't" seems kind of iffy to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

92. Absolutely not

I have lived this experience. The wife already knows. When you tell her, she is humiliated because not only is her husband having an affair, but her friends know.

I have seen more than one friendship ruined because this kind of a secret was disclosed.

Absolutely not.

[Canuckistanian]

93. Not my business. And I'd expect the same behavior from my friend

Some marriages are not what they appear. For all anyone knows, it could be an arrangement that all three parties are comfortable with.

[iris27]

103. "For all anyone knows, it could be an arrangement that all three parties are comfortable with."

And if that's really the case, and they know you weren't aware of their arrangement, I would be surprised if any of them would be upset with you for being concerned for them. I can only speak for myself, of course, but as someone in an open relationship, if someone who didn't know about it told me they thought they saw my partner "on a date" with someone else, I would thank them for their concern and let them know I was aware and ok with it.

[seabeyond]

106. if you know. and they are ok with it. i would think it wouldnt be a big deal.....

i was confused by that logic too

[michreject]

97. No

None of my business.

[Maru Kitteh]

98. I will say this, I'd be PISSED if I found out my "friend" knew about something like that and didn't

tell me, so yeah, I would.

[seabeyond]

100. i would to. wouldnt see that person as a friend. would be more embarrassed this person knew the

secret adn all the things i would say, she was sittin on it.... me lookin the fool, thinkin hubby and i were fine.

i would feel so betrayed

another point. i have done a poll would you want to know/not know. strong majority would want to know. seems like a disconnect here, those that want to know, but to ccowardly to tell the friend

[iris27]

108. no kidding

"i have done a poll would you want to know/not know. strong majority would want to know. seems like a disconnect here"

Most people would want to know if their spouse was cheating on them, but if they were in the position of the friend that knew, they don't want to take on the unpleasant mantle of being the one who breaks the news. I've been there and it sucks, but if you are a friend it is the right thing to do.

[Pisces]

99. Only my best friend. She would be the only one I would intervene in. I would have no way

of knowing if the other women were choosing to turn a blind eye, but with her I would know that she would want me to tell.

[cherish44]

101. My husband was having an affair that friends knew about and no one told me

I felt betrayed not only by my husband but by these friends. HELL YES I would tell. Cheaters don't deserve protection and if it's a friend getting cheated on, he/she has a right to know. I felt like a complete fool for a long time and it took awhile to forgive.

[seabeyond]

104. wouldnt you think. i would feel betrayed. angry. majority would want to know about affair

but majority wouldnt tell a friend. what kind of friend wouldnt tell, regardless of risk, sometimes a true friend has to do the hard stuff. it is easy to not tell, but that doesnt make them a better friend

[Pisces]

107. Some women have the opposite reaction. Ignorance is bliss as well as some turn a blind eye.

They prefer the game instead of the reality. shoving the truth in someone's face is not the job of her friends or associates.

[seabeyond]

109. so... ask, would you want to know? i would. adn they will say yes or no. if blind eye

they will say no and that is the end.

but if a friend knows, and i share all kinds of stories and confidence about my marriage not knowing.... and they said nothing. that would be sucha betrayal. i dont know i could forgive a person not being honest with me. honesty is the basis to all my relationships and who i am. if a friend doesnt "get it", they really arent very good friends.

[cherish44]

102. My husband was having an affair that friends knew about and no one told me

I felt betrayed not only by my husband but by these friends. HELL YES I would tell. Cheaters don't deserve protection and if it's a friend getting cheated on, he/she has a right to know. I felt like a complete fool for a long time and it took awhile to forgive.

[kwassa]

113. If I didn't inform, I would be a partner to the crime.

I can't believe anyone here saying "no".

what cowardice.

[hunter]

114. Kick ass, TahitiNut.

A friend will always tell you where you stand even if you don't want to hear it.

[Fumesucker]

115. I find it quite revealing that so many here automatically assume it is the man

Who will be doing the cheating..

It takes two to tango and if the cheating couple is heterosexual then one of them is a woman.

Like my very recently ex-wife of thirty years.

I didn't have a clue, I have had a couple of hints that our daughter knew but I haven't asked her because I really don't want to ruin the last relationship I have left and that would also cut off my relationship with my grandkids.

I'm a shy, not particularly attractive man who happened to be married to a beautiful woman who never met a stranger, I trusted her absolutely and she ripped the heart out of my chest..

I'll never be the same again and I fully expect to be without a companion for the rest of my life.

At least once or twice a week I lay in bed, hug my dogs and cry myself to sleep, if I can sleep at all.

[seabeyond]

118. i sorry. so sorry. and yes, it is annoying and insulting to say the least

to always imply it is the man cheating. as many women do as men. the men that cheat, cheat with a woman, who is also cheating, regardless if she says a vow and vice versa. it is people hurting others.... and i am never for that.

and it is a horrible place for a parent to put a child.

i am sorry you are in pain

[TahitiNut]

134. That IS interesting, isn't it?

As I posted about my own experience above, it's 180 degrees the opposite in my own experience.

I guess that makes me a wuss ... cuckold ... whatever.

:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

136. I read your post ..

You got treated very shabbily..

I was talking to my brother's wife the day after I found out my wife had been cheating on me (*after* I signed divorce papers) and was extremely upset, it took her all of about three minutes to start berating me for being upset. The really funny part is that she had broken off a very long friendship with another woman because the woman lied to her about screwing a mutual male friend of theirs in whom my sister in law had no romantic interest at all.. What makes it even more amusing is that my sister in law had mentioned this incident to me just about every time I had any contact with her for quite some time, she was mildly obsessed about it.

The double standard is blatantly obvious, if I had been another woman whose man cheated on her my sister in law would have been supportive and sympathetic, because I was a man she thought I should just grin and bear it.

Edited for clarity.

[TahitiNut]

141. While I skipped over the post-'discovery' details ...

... let me assure you that I know, from my own experience, the difficulty you're facing. I spent a lot of time hugging my Labrador Retriever and enjoying his company, too. (It wouldn't be hyperbole to say he saved my life.)

Betrayals of trust are particularly onerous for me. Being a Viet Nam veteran compounds that, I think.

[seabeyond]

158. would either of you two want a friend to tell you, or not have friend tell you. mind own business?

curious from people who have actually experienced

respectfully if you dont want to share

[TahitiNut]

166. While I'd certainly let my friend know, I'd do so with extreme sensitivity.

It's NOT a time to say "I told you so" or exhibit (or possess!) any personal gratification. I'd broach the subject very carefully, in a setting that permitted no outside intrusion. If my friend indicated denial, a wish to remain ignorant, or resentment for my 'interference,' I'd respect their wishes and express a sincere hope that everything would turn out OK. Even though I'd have to be reasonably certain to approach them, I'd acknowledge that I could be wrong. But even more important, I'd say I was always available for support and a kind word. I'd make sure they understood that I understand forgiveness and that I could remain a trusted friend ... and that I'd NOT use their difficulty to entertain others. (I'm not inclined to exploit the troubles of friends in regaling others with some soap opera. I dislike "third party talk.")

[seabeyond]

170. i am so perfectly with you on it all. it is what the person that will experience the pain

wants to do with it, and be there for the person regardless, in unconditional love, anyway the person wants to handle it and what they need from me. i have always found, regardless of what it is or who it is with, if done from the heart, in love, .... a person knows and feels and problem can be dealt with one way or another.

thanks for sharing tahti... and integrity doesnt come in a form of gender.

[TahitiNut]

174. I remember an episode of 'West Wing" and what Leo McGarry told Josh Bartlet.

He told the story of the man who'd fallen into a deep hole and was yelling for help. People walked by and offered suggestions and even tossed in ropes. No use. Then a fellow came by and jumped into the hole with the guy. When the guy said "Why did you do that? Now there's TWO of us trapped here!" the fellow replied "I've been in this hole myself and know how to get out."

There's almost no value to my experiences whatsoever if I cannot learn from them and be better in supporting family, friends, and neighbors. There are many ways to "pay it forward" and being supportive of folks facing difficulties that I've faced would sure be one.

[seabeyond]

175. .

ya well... people like you warm my heart. you are so right on. and really this is what we are all about. thanks.

[KoKo]

116. Won't answer this poll because Admins & Mods Monitor posts...

but...NO...I would refrain from getting involved. It always comes back you when one gets involved in "spousal thingies." Just my view, though...but have some experience.

However...it's up to you...as you know.

[GliderGuider]

117. The responses confirm my belief that the human heart is a very complicated piece of business.

I've always felt that applying black and white prescriptions to matters of the heart dishonours all involved. What I would want to do in any such situation is whatever was right for that situation and the people involved. I can think of many situations in which there would be no question that I would tell, and many situations in which I definitely would not. I can think of situations in which I would want to be told, and situations in which I would not. If such flexibility causes me to be branded as a pragmatist or a moral relativist, so be it. I just know in my own heart that life is never simple.

I believe we are at our most most authentic when we respond to the actual situation in front of us, rather than applying a cookie-cutter approach that was developed somewhere else, some time previously, in some pther situation that had no resemblance to the one we are facing. It's good to have values like truth, honesty and openness. Coupled with wisdom and compassion, they serve the heart well. IMO the concept of "duty" is usually driven by the ego, and its Manichean framework more often wounds than heals -- especially where the hearts of others are concerned.

[hunter]

119. It's not "black and white" if you intervene and negotiate deftly between both parties.

The goal is transparency.

[GliderGuider]

122. "The" goal?

There is never a single goal in these situations. Intervention and negotiation is definitely an option. Is it the only desirable option, to be applied uniformly without regard to the specific situation? I rather suspect not.

[hunter]

127. I hate secrets.

Unless you are protecting someone from physical harm -- a spouse with a hot temper and a gun for example -- secrets always seem to fester into something much worse.

People I knew died of AIDS, so maybe my opinion is biased.

[GliderGuider]

153. We each do what we feel is right

My point is mainly that there isn't a single answer that is "right" for all people, in all situations, at all times. I feel uncomfortable with simplistic prescriptions, but my world consists entirely of shades of gray. Others with more definite feelings have to follow their own nature.

I would probably come down on the side of not telling more often than telling, because I start from the premise that people have an inalienable right to sort out their own shit. On a deeper level I believe strongly that in some way we "choose" the situations we get involved in, in order to learn a variety of things about life. If I interfere in someone else's life it will short-circuit that possibility (though they'd learn different lessons from my intervention, of course).

That said, if I were fairly sure that malicious intent was involved I'd intervene. And although secrecy, lying and violating someone's trust is always damaging, not all affairs involve malicious intent.

[datasuspect]

198. the human heart is simply a pump.

[GliderGuider]

212. Then morality has no foundation in the physical world either.

Morality is simply an emergent noetic cultural property that is substantiated only by mutual agreement. As such it is utterly unreal, and is open to violation without physical penalty at any time.

If the heart is just a pump, and the metaphor is therefore invalid, can you present a purely physical justification for informing or resting silent? One that is totally value-free? I used to try and do things like that, but it's a fool's errand in the face of the complexity of the human mind.

Or did I misunderstand your objection?

[InvisibleTouch]

120. Probably No. None of my business.

Gender would not make a difference in my decision. If BOTH partners were my friends, I'd definitely vote No. If only the "cheated-upon" was my friend, I guess it would depend on how close of a friend they were, how well I could gauge their reaction, and even then, I'd be cautious. For all I know, he/she knows all about it and is fine with it, or is dealing with it in their own way. They don't then need someone on the outside meddling in their lives.

[liquid diamond]

121. I voted yes.

I would want them to do the same for me. An adulterer deserves to be exposed for the fraud they are. A married couple makes a vow on their wedding day to be true to one another and they should be held accountable for breaking that vow.

WTF? Gender plays NO role! Are there people that think a man or woman should be able to get away with infidelity?

If they both were my friends it wouldn't matter.

[jmm]

123. I'd need to be pretty damn certain but I'd tell.

I don't pry into the personal lives of others so if I know somebody has made it my business. Maybe they were careless or maybe they wanted help covering up a lie but however I found out once I did I wouldn't be an accomplice.

I've been friends with cheaters and lost those "friendships" over this issue but I'm still glad I was honest.

[liquid diamond]

124. I see a lot more people here picked no

Care to explain your choice in more detail instead of terse "Mind your own business." responses.

[Iggo]

125. Yes, I would.

And yes, I have. Because once I didn't and when the friend found out that I knew, I was shit.

[Hamlette]

126. No. Been there, done that.

I knew John was cheating on Donna for a few months before she "found out." (I think she knew before I did.) He told her and at that point he made the choice for her. (3 kids, sad situation).

I've always been happy I didn't tell her. If I'd told her I would have always wondered if things might have worked out better if she didn't know. I might have been pulled into the middle of it and used as a scape goat. He's still with the new woman who I see occasionally. I would have always been uncomfortable around her. (Now I'm just smug and superior! Well, to myself).

John is my 2nd cousin and I'd always hated him. Donna was his second wife and I (and all my family) adore her. They lived across the street and we saw a lot of them. It was hard not to tell her but it is one time I kept my mouth shut and am so glad I did.

[hunter]

129. I'm a volunteer scape goat if that's what it takes.

Not a martyr, I just hate it whenever anything is held together by lies and darkness.

If I got a flashlight, I'll use it. Sorry if anyone doesn't like what they see out there, but that's what's real.

[Chovexani]

131. "Lies and darkness"

You might want to turn off "the stories", Mrs. Kravitz.

[hunter]

133. So, Samantha, which husband is this?

And what did you do with the old one?

[Hamlette]

146. I wouldn't want to be told

which is how/why I decided not to tell Donna.

I don't see how any good could come of knowing. You want to break up the marriage? Is that your decision?

Marriage is about more than sex. I've been married for 35 years. Maybe 30 years ago I would have wanted to know. But I would have left him 30 years ago if I'd known. Glad that didn't happen.

[Stinky The Clown]

128. No, it is none of my business

[Chovexani]

130. Not only no, but hell no.

It is none of my goddamn business. I have a strict policy of not getting involved in other people's relationship drama unless directly asked for my opinion or input on a situation. To me, "friend" != "crotch warden".

Also? Unless you specifically have a "please tell me if you see anything outside ___ parameters" deal with said friend, you don't know WTF is going on in their relationship. I mean, do we really need to bring up the Three's Company sitcomish situations where some nosy fuck sees a friend's SO having lunch with a stranger, they fly off the handle and tell the friend, and it turns out the stranger was a heretofore unknown family member?

My absolute favorite was back when my then girlfriend and I worked in the same office (she was hired on after I was). As far as everyone knew, we were just a geeky lesbian couple, no one knew that we were a) poly b) GF was dating a mutual friend also. A co-worker overheard my GF in the ladies' room a few times talking to her other GF on the phone, in a very obviously romantic way. Concerned co-worker came to me with this, all apologetic and offering her support. It took every ounce of self-control I had not to bust out laughing. Instead I calmly explained I appreciated her concern but that I knew she had another partner, in fact we were best friends.

Moral of the story: that tired cliche about assuming and asses applies in most aspects of life, particularly when actual asses are involved.

[EFerrari]

132. No way unless I was asked directly. Ir's not about gender but

about unleashing that kind of pain in someone's life. Anyone's life.

[hunter]

139. I don't know. The bomb is going to go off sometime.

Where do you want to be standing when it does?

Or maybe you find out it's not a bomb and you can both laugh about it. "Ha, ha, that's his skanky mistress, you haven't met?"

I don't go looking for trouble, I'm not looking to set off these bombs, I'm not policing anyone else's sex life, but maybe if I happen to light up one these bombs my skin is thick enough to soak up some of the shrapnel. I'm terrible at keeping secrets anyways. Confidences, yeah, I can keep those, I'm not ever going to tell third parties about anything I've heard in confidence, I'm not a gossip, but I am going to tell friends about things that directly concern them, and I pretty much expect the same from them.

Also, if the shit has hit the fan and it's blowing my way I'd appreciate a friend to tell me before it hits, even if there ain't nothing I can do about it but close my eyes, hold my breath, and hope for the best.

[Hello_Kitty]

137. If your friend knew your spouse was cheating would you want him/her to tell you?

I think I would so I'm going to go with yes.

[Greyhound]

138. No, it's a no-win situation.

Whichever way it goes, they'll both hate you.

Same reason I don't tell my friends when they make bad choices in relationships.

[TahitiNut]

140. This is truly fascinating.

About 140 replies, 165 votes, and 2,500 views ... but no recommendations. Bizarre.

Some folks are SURE the 'correct' answer is "No" and other are just as SURE the 'correct' answer is "Yes." Some see the complexities and some have been in the position of being the friend or the spouse. (Nobody, of course, has admitted of being the person having the extramarital affair, or even the one with whom the affair was conducted.)

(That's NOT a lament or complaint ... just an observation of DU behavior.)

:hide:

[hunter]

142. I was the "other guy" once, but I didn't know it.

Broke my heart when she told me she wasn't really divorced and she was quitting school to go back to her husband.

:cry:

If she or someone else had told me much sooner we might still be friends. Or else her religious freak husband might have killed me for touching his wife.

Sigh.

[seabeyond]

150. and very good/interesting. i did a poll would you want to know/not know. i had ONE

person admit to comitting affair and he wasnt very repentent either.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

143. Jeesh

I voted Yes - I would have to tell.

But since I have not been faced with this scenario I am going on a gut feeling here. I would hate like hell to have to tell a friend that I found out that their partner was cheating but I think I would have to do it.

I have been cheated on big time and I found out the hard way... I don't think there is any good way of finding out but I would want to know (I think....)

I have to say though- Ignorance is bliss.

I wish you had included a category "I am an idiot and have no clue what I would do"

But I think if it were my very best girlfriend, I would have to tell her - I love her so--- and I think she should know if her SO was a rat bastard.

[TahitiNut]

147. Let's hear what DU's morning crowd has to say, huh?

:kick:

[pnutbutr]

148. I would blackmail

the spouse into providing special services in exchange for not telling. I'm so f'ing evil. :evilgrin:

[ejpoeta]

149. if they both were your friends, maybe you should go give the cheating spouse the

opportunity to tell their spouse about it. If you are only friends with the one who was cheated on.... I am not sure. maybe get an idea of what they know. usually people feel something even if they are not sure what it is. I had a friend whose boyfriend was cheating on her and I didn't know anything about it, but we had friends who did, and the one guy told her after she was going to get back with her boyfriend. He said he wasn't going to say anything, but he didn't want her to get back with the guy. So... I think it really depends on the situation. I think though that your friend might be a little pissed at you if you knew and didn't say anything.

[JANdad]

151. Uhhh....HELL YES!

I can not believe some of the wamby pamby, I am afraid for ME responses on here. "I" will lose a friend...I have to ask: What kind of Friend are you if you allow said "Friend" to be placed in a position of heartbreak, humiliation and possible health issues...fuggin cowards!

[seabeyond]

155. doesnt make sense to me either. can you imagine, a friend, a dear friend, talking blissfully

about marriage, what a good mate he/she is, how wonderful it is between them and you just sittin there nodding head in agreement as you KNOW he/she fucked around on this person. and later this friend finds out all the while this was being said you KNEW that it was all a lie.

that would be an addition betrayal

i do see it as cowardly.

more interested in protecting self than being there for a friend, being a friend.

i did a poll asking would you want to know/not know. strong majority would want to know. slight majority here would not tell. really says something

[TahitiNut]

173. There certainly does seem to be a lot of strange 'self-service' in the rationales.

I'd be the last to say I'm not being self-serving in adhering to my principles to ensure a friend isn't kept ignorant. Much of my behavior is self-serving in the sense that I value my integrity - "integrity" being acting in concert with my avowed principles. Of the few thiings we have any control over in this thing called "life," it seems that adhering to our own principles and values is one of the more important. That would include keeping my word and honoring my commitments. I regard 'friendship' to be a commitment.

[GliderGuider]

191. Say you intervened to preserve your integrity

and a suicide resulted. How well would your sense of duty, honour and integrity protect you from those kinds of self-recriminations? Or do you simply disavow personal responsibility at that point?

[TahitiNut]

193. Do you REALLY think you have such power over others? ... responsibility for their reactions?

So many folks want to go "off the reservation" and ignore the terms I chose ... terms such as "friend" and "reasonably certain" and "affair." You seem to interpret the term "friend" in ways that are foreign to me. To presume heavy-handedness and extreme reactions ... and then argue that such a reaction might somehow be avoided by your INACTION ... seems to be evasive and hyper-rationalizing.

The suicide of anyone ... particularly a friend ... is tragic and awful. Under ANY circumstance, I'd lament that I might not have serve them better as a FRIEND, but I'd also know that such a tragic choice is one that people take despite the best efforts of friends and family. I say this as one who's contemplated it in the past. Believe me, in both of my experiences it became that much more devastating when I found that my 'friends' knew and didn't tell me. It compounded the sense of betrayal.

As I noted in another post, the manner in which I'd inform a friend would be with exteme caution and sensitivity, and I'd be prepared to offer whatever emotional support I could. If I KNEW my friend was emotionally inclined to such a reaction, it'd be even worse to stand back and let the eventual chips fall where they may, I believe.

YMMV ... and it obviously does. :shrug:

[GliderGuider]

194. My mileage definitely varies.

I simply can't conceive of making my need for personal integrity an absolute requirement that trumps the needs of others. That's how I interpret your position, and it seems to lack compassion.

[Swamp Rat]

160. No.

K&R

[TahitiNut]

168. Tsk, tsk.

Good to see you, my good friend. :hug: :hi:
I hope all is WONDERFUL for you!

[Swamp Rat]

179. 'Gauche'

is the word that comes to mind when contemplating injecting myself into the affairs of my friends and loved ones.

Tudo bem aqui. :D :hi: :hug:

[Karenina]

182. It depends...

:evilgrin:

:bounce:

SWAMPERKINS!!! DA BIST DU!!!

:bounce:

:loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya::loveya:

[Swamp Rat]

184. NAAAAAAAA DUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:loveya: :hug: :loveya: :hug: :loveya: Ich bin in Südamerika... ;) :loveya: :evilgrin: Wie gehts meine Liebe? :hug: :loveya:

[Karenina]

195. WOO-HOO!!!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[Swamp Rat]

196. viele Jahre macht!......

:cry: :cry: :cry: Ich hasse unsere Regierung!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

...... Tô livre aqui!!!!!!!! :woohoo:

[Orsino]

161. Whether or not it's "cheating" would depend on the relationships involved...

...but I don't think I would willingly conceal such information.

[IdaBriggs]

167. Yes. Three stories.

My husband's best friend (part 1 and 2, same story) a long time ago:

I was also friends with him, but frankly, not that close with the wife. She was 6 months pregnant with their third child when the whole group of friends went off to a camping event (Pensic War, if you know what I mean). Someone had to stay home with the kids, and she was it.

Within 24 hours, he'd picked someone up. There was no question about the sex; we were all in tents. (He'd been telling all of us for years that they had an open marriage, so we just rolled our eyes and stayed out of it.) Later, the little bimbette nattered on at the campfire about how she'd done a lot of bad things in her life, but had never slept with a married man. I bit my tongue, and glared hard. Later I talked to him about using 'protection' due to disease/his wife being pregnant and all (another friend had recently been told she had herpes, and wouldn't be able to deliver vaginally due to blindness issues, and I had a freaking nightmare about it); he told me she didn't look like the kind of person who got diseases. I kind of went off on him. 'Nuff said there.

When we got home, the wife walked past every single one of the guys, including her husband, looked me in the eyes, and asked, "Was Tim good?" I hedged, hemmed, and hawed at first with the classic: "Shouldn't you be asking him that question?" to which she nailed me with "I'm asking you, because I know you'll tell me the truth." I thought about it for a second, then told her that all I could say was I wouldn't sleep with him without protection/him getting some tests. All of my husband's friends decided to be mad at me, but my shoulders are broad, and I'm good with that. (Please keep in mind, my husband was my boyfriend when this story took place.)

The wife and he ended up working things out for a while. Later he picked up a new bimbo, and began taking her everywhere and introducing her as his girlfriend. My husband (we had married by this point) and I made a point of refusing to be with him when he had her with him, and frankly, this caused some problems with some of the 'enabler' friends. The final straw for me came at a wedding; the wife (!) was unpopular in our crowd, so the bride and groom (who socialized regularly with Tim and his mistress), invited the mistress/made the reception 'child free.' The upshot of this was the wife and kids were with hubby at the wedding, then the wife went home to take care of the kids, and the mistress was sitting on the husband's lap at the reception. I said a few unpleasant (very few!) words to the groom about publicly humiliating people, and we left.

Tim and his wife were later divorced, and his brief marriage to the mistress was quite ... educational ... or so I'm told. She cheated on him, and he walked in on it; later he kvetched to his (ex) wife about how someone could hurt someone like that -- and she just looked at him. He apologized to her. They are now on friendly terms, which is good, but the kids are terribly messed up. Sigh.

Story 2: A friend of mine at work started cheating on her husband with another co-worker. She was unhappy in her marriage, and frankly, so was the co-worker. I did my best to be supportive, but drew the line when she asked me to lie about her whereabouts. Her husband found out, and divorced her. The other couple were able to work things out.

Story 3: A very dear friend of mine cheated on her husband. She did not involve me, but told me about it. I darn near cheered -- her husband is someone I actively dislike, and I had hopes that this would give her strength to leave a miserable marriage. The affair ended, and she's still married to the Loser. As far as I know, he doesn't know, and her guilt has probably made her stay in a terribly abusive situation.

So, here is my take: marriages don't get better by bringing in other people (unless everyone is in agreement in advance, which I choose not to judge). Most 'happily married' people don't have sex with other people when they are in a committed relationship; if you are tempted to cheat, it is because your needs (emotional, social, sexual, mental, whatever) aren't getting met within your own marriage, so get your ass to counseling/work things out by COMMUNICATING. If you can't make your marriage work (and it happens), extricate yourself, THEN sleep with whoever you want, because exposing someone who trusts you to disease without their consent is despicable / amoral behavior. Furthermore, I won't help you deceive a spouse no matter who the friend is, and I choose not to knowingly socialize with liars/cheats/sneaks, although I understand people make mistakes -- just don't ask me to help you cover yours up. Yes, these things can be forgiven / people can work through them, but it isn't easy for anyone, because like alcoholism, the coping mechanism becomes its own problem, and has a tendency to mask the original issues.

Would I tell? I answered yes, but honestly, it depends on the person/situation. But if my husband was parading around town, and no one told me, I'd be PISSED. And frankly, I'd be discussing it with my friends if I saw it -- perhaps a phone call, "Say, when did you guys decide to start doing the open relationship thing? I thought you weren't into that?" along with a cell phone picture if we were at a restaurant and I saw a spouse behaving inappropriately with someone else.

I don't want to know, and if you make it my business, it means its public. Grrrr.....

Life is complicated.

[JackRiddler]

171. Depends - am I the affair?

[firehorse]

176. I was in this position once.

The night I met my friend's wife at a party, she asked me to go on a little walk outside. I did. And she introduced me to a man she was cheating on her husband with.

I hated being put in this position. And hated her for putting me in it. Looking back I think she new exactly what she was doing. The term is "gas lighting". She gas-lit me.

I chose not to tell my friend because in the end its none of my business and I resented being pulled into some kind of triangulation head game. On the other side of the equation, I also hated having to keep her stupid secret.

In a couple years they ended up splitting up, and I told him then. And I told him how I felt manipulated by his ex. My telling him had dampened our friendship as he still had a soft spot for his ex. But I had to get it off my chest. He ended up re-marrying.


firehorse

[ensho]

180. yes I have and I told her we should cut off our friendship because

it could never be the same. her husband called and offered to service me.

I thought she should know what the creep did. she was a nice person and mother.

[krabigirl]

181. Nope. None of my damn business and I don't like to meddle in peoples' private lives.

If I lost a friend over it, so be it. It is not my place to say anything...and what if my "certainty" ended up untrue?!

[yellowcanine]

183. Probably not but it depends. History is important. If someone cheats but then appears to be sorry

and are trying to be faithful I would probably let it go, assuming that they need to work it out themselves. But if someone is having serial affairs and the injured spouse seems to be clueless I would have to seriously consider telling.

[JackRiddler]

185. The term cheating carries an implicit negative assumption about the non-marital relationship

The term "cheating" is monogamist propaganda that in my experience is applied without discrimination, without regard to the details of a situation. It's a big part of the tawdry airing of private lives that passes for much of our public discourse (see Jerry Springer, etc.)

Throw out your general principles and preconceptions and start with actual observation: Who are the three (or more) people involved? What are their relationships? Do I really know? What is their milieu or set, and what do they themselves consider normal? Who am I to them? What do I actually know about the supposed "cheating"? Does my knowledge go beyond circumstantial evidence or innuendo?

Assuming I really know anything for sure, the most important question will probably be: Is someone lying to someone else? Why?

How many other lies are involved in their relationship? Not all cheating is sexual; it's also possible to promise yourself as one kind of person and, to take one extreme, later to turn into (or be revealed as) a monstrous or exploitative other. Who is hurting whom? Maybe what's going on really isn't my business? Would an intervention as an outsider actually help anyone? What are the consequences? Not just to the wife/wives, husband(s) or lover(s) I presume to help, but to children and dependents?

Can't say what exceptions may arise, but my expectation is that I'd never talk to the unwitting partner first, but instead work to persuade the wanderer to be truthful always.

[GliderGuider]

188. Excellent, thoughtful response!

I've been through a variety of unconventional relationships, and I can guarantee you that how outsiders perceived them bore little resemblance to what was actually going on inside them.
:thumbsup:

[Beaverhausen]

186. Only if I was 100% sure

Been there, done that with bad info. Not good.

Like the song says, "half of what you see and none of what you hear."

[Fireweed247]

187. Damned if you do, damned if you don't

My best friend's boyfriend was living with me and my (now) husband (against my better judgement) and he made a pass at me twice. I told him to get the freak away from me but didn't tell my best friend because I though he was just an idiot and he said something about thinking the four of us would get it on (whatever!)

So years later, he decides to come clean and tells my best friend who then blames me for not knowing I was turning him on. They both blamed me for him making a pass at me which I rejected. I was yelled at, lectured...it was ridiculous! People are messed up and I guess I should be glad that ruined our friendship.

[TahitiNut]

192. "I guess I should be glad that ruined our friendship." Indeed.

Blame-shifting like that seems to be what leads to women being forced to wear burkas. The notion that folks aren't responsible for their own behavior, even if enticed or 'seduced,' is one of the more pervasive dysfunctional attitudes. I've shared a motel room (two beds) with a friend's wife while we both attended an out-of-town seminar. I've shared a bed (to take a nap) with a friend and her daughter, dressed of course. In each instance, respectful and responsible behavior was fully understood.

Even when my libido was rip-roaring rampant, I'd never violate such a trust relationship. I just don't understand how some are 'wired' that this isn't the norm. Like anyone who's taken Abnormal Psychology in college, I've detected some seed of many/most of the discussed pathologies in myself. It's common for such students to become uncomfortable in such a class ... which is why the professors have to explain the 'balanced' vs. pathological aspect. Nonetheless, I feel almost deficient in some sense that I cannot relate to rapists or child molesters -- as though I'm missing some 'ingredient' that's overwhelming in those having pathologies. (It's difficult to explain.)

[Mayor McCheez]

190. Well first of all...

assuming both people were my friends, I would try to convince the person cheating to take some personal responsibility, and own up to it. If they refused then as a TRUE friend to the other person I feel like I would have to tell them.

I once had to tell my best friend from childhood that his girlfriend was cheating on him and that was hard to do. His initial response was calling me a liar and brushing me off for a while. Later on however, after she confessed to it, I was there for him to cry too. I didn't like having to hurt him like that, but I felt it was what a true friend should do. He has since thanked me on several occasions for my honesty.

I think if it were me I would be far more angry to find out my friend knew and did nothing to warn me than if they confronted me about it.

[hunter]

197. I wonder if there's a correlation between this YES / NO quiz and...

this one:

"I have had a sexual relationship I have hidden from my spouse or significant other." YES / NO

and / or

"I have had a sexual relationship with someone I knew was married or in a monogomous relationship and have known that this person was hiding our relationship from their spouse of significant other." YES / NO

:evilgrin: somebody had to ask...

[imdjh]

199. Yes and Yes and Yes and No and No

Yes, I have messed around with a friend's boyfriend, but I had permission. Yes, I would tell a friend if his lover was cheating on him. Yes, I make my opinion known to those who are cheating what I think about it. No, I will not lie for a friend to enable him to cheat on his partner. No I will not permit it to happen under my roof. I'm old fashioned that way.

[seabeyond]

200. messing around with a friends bf with permission isnt really cheating, lol. is it? n/t

[imdjh]

201. It really isn't. Cheating is when you break your agreement or understanding.

And besides, it was at the height of DISCO. I don't think anyone was monogamous back then.

[seabeyond]

203. wink. n/t

[woo me with science]

206. You beat me to it.

I just made the same point below. Maybe this is a good screening question to ask a potential partner...

[woo me with science]

205. I wonder how many cheaters (and potential cheaters) voted "no" and non-cheaters voted "yes"

in this poll. I suspect we'd see a pattern here.

I agree with others above who said they'd confront the cheater first and allow him or her the option of coming clean, before telling the friend.

[slackmaster]

207. I was informed yesterday that someone I've known since high school cheated on his wife of many years

He told her about it himself a few days ago, and said he wants a divorce. I found out from a couple who are dear lifelong friends.

Guess what? I no longer have any desire to see the man. We weren't close friends, but now I no longer even want to be in the same room with him. As with most people I regard as friends, their committed partners are also friends. Someone who does something that hurts a friend of mine so badly is no longer a friend of mine. If I run into him, which is likely, I'll be civil but not open to any close personal interaction. I'm done with him.

I'm sure there is more to the story, and that he probably has some kind of grievance with her. I don't know them well enough to be able to say with any certainty that she is someone who is easy to live with. The couple made several attempts to have a child together over the last 10 years or so. All failed, with great disappointment (at least to her; I'm not so sure about how he felt about it).

If you want to have intimate relations with someone other than your committed partner, the only HONORABLE way to go about it is to break off the committed relationship FIRST.

Would I have ratted him out to his wife had he not done so himself? Yes, I believe I would have. My reaction to this news confirms everything I've written up-thread.

[seabeyond]

209. doesnt it kinda just fizzle the respect you had for the person. we tend to hang around like people

i have a friend cheating with a married man. after years of friendship, now i just see here differently.

[Cleita]

208. I would inform the cheating spouse that I know that he/she is

involved in an affair and that I'm disgusted. Other than that I would consider it none of my business. Maybe they have an open marriage or maybe the other spouse knows and doesn't care.

[seabeyond]

210. if they have an open marriage, or dont care, what does it matter if you say something? n/t

[Cleita]

216. It doesn't, but if you don't know what their marriage is about,

I think it wouldn't hurt to tell the spouse what you think and if you happen to know their lover, that person as well. I wouldn't tell the cheated upon spouse though because there are too many unknown factors here that could make a bad matter, worse and as I said it's no ones business and no reason to spread what also could be gossip. Telling cheater and lover is not spreading gossip but expressing an opinion to the offenders and the fact that you know what they are doing.

[eatpraylove]

215. A friend has an obligation to their friend to report disloyalty...

I don't understand why this is even a question! If you discovered that the local mechanic was crooked and your friend happened to utilize his/her services, it would be a no-brainer. Why, in matters of the heart, does the game change? Your friend is investing her life in a marriage and literally, we ARE talking LIFE. The cheater could very easily bring home a life-shortening/ending disease. You will not destroy the marriage by revealing the infidelity. The lying, cheater dog already did that...

[LWolf]

217. "reasonably sure"

If I am certain, I may tell. I sure as hell wish someone would have said something to me, rather than having everyone discuss the situation behind my back.

"reasonably" isn't "certain," so no, not in that case.