Michael Collins: The Big Pakistan "Con"

[autorank]

The Big "Con": Michael Collins: The Big Pakistan "Con"
"Scoop" Independent News

Michael Collins
Saturday, 09 May 2009


Three Card Nuclear Monte

Here we go again, says Michael Collins: Richard Holbrooke says the Pakistan Taliban are a threat to the "homeland," and that if they take over, they'll cook up another 9/11. And he's not the only one pushing Obama and the US into another unnecessary quagmire.

May 9, 2009 – Washington, DC (electionfraudnews.com) – A strange feeling of déjà vu arises while listening to the administration sell further U.S. military intervention in Pakistan (our Predator drones are already there).

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Michael Mullen claimed in late March that Pakistan's intelligence service has "close links with al Qaeda and the Taliban network." In fact, Mullen warned, the Pakistani intelligence service, ISI, is "offering logistical support to them (the Taliban)."

In early April, veteran foreign policy icon and special advisor to the president on Afghanistan and South Asia, Richard Holbrook, let us know what this meant. There is a fundamental difference between the Pakistan conflict and the Viet Nam war, he argued. Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Holbrook went on to say this:

"And the people who are in this area who we are fighting either pose a direct threat, having committed 9/11, having done Mumbai, having killed (Benazir) Bhutto, and they have publicly said they are going to do more of the same. That is: al Qaeda of course and their allies the Taliban." Richard Holbrooke, May 5, 2009 (Repeating April 19, 2009 statement)

Snip

Perpetual 9/11

We're experiencing an example of the enduring power 9/11 as a justification for just about anything. Military adventures that kill foreigners have the potential to create what Chalmers Johnson so eloquently described as "blowback" in his trilogy on the perils of aggressive foreign policy. We're expected to believe that our violent actions in Pakistan and Afghanistan, including robot killer aircraft, will somehow produce a different result this time. We will be "safer."

"Scoop" http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0905/S00093.htm

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X-Post of balantz's post in Editorials:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x447323

[ihavenobias]

1. Perpetual 9/11, excellent frame.

K & R

[autorank]

3. People could just reference that

Citizen: Why in the world are you doing this?

Gov. Official: Perpetual 9/11

Citizen: Oh, right, you're preventing this ... :nuke:

Gov. Official: How did you guess?

[EFerrari]

2. I vote for PNACer Richard Holbrooke being a bigger threat to America

but that's just me.

:)

[autorank]

4. Great memory, I'd forgotten, damn!

Additional PNAC Signatories

http://www.king-george.biz/wst_page5.html

Morton Halperin
Pierre Hassner
Vaclav Havel
John Herfferman
Charles Hill
Richard C. Holbrooke
James Hooper
Toomas Ilves
Martin S. Indyk
Bruce P. Jackson
Eli S. Jacobs

[EFerrari]

8. I almost threw something at the teevee last week, hearing him

justifying the Afghanistan/Pakistan budget by saying that Pakistan needs NIGHT GOGGLES and HELICOPTERS!

My teenagers came up with better stuff than that at allowance time.

lol

:hi:

[bleever]

16. And of course he's associated with the new PNAC, FPI.

"Foreign Policy Initiative", with Kristol and Kagan and other PNACers regrouping under a new brand.

[flyarm]

20. Watch out ..the big ignore button will be coming for you...tell the truth and

the treats come flying at you!!
I think of the ignore threat around here.. like the staples big red button thingy they sell ..

I see more and more of the PNAC bullshit daily..how do so many who wrote about it and bitched about it ignore it now?????

And my teenager was as good as yours at allowance time as well!!

They can only play us like fools , if we allow it. But just as raising children taught us..we have a keen sense of what is bullshit and what is real, and we have the intelligence to know the difference!! To sit quietly by when this is being perpetrated against our nation, is to be complicit.



:hi:

[EFerrari]

21. Happy Mother's Day, fly!

:hi:

[flyarm]

22. And Happy Mothers day to you as well!!

Hope you had a lovely day!!

I am a few weeks away from being a Happy Grandmother's day , and excited as can be..

Having a ball buying "pink" dresses..and hair bows and the cutest dang shoes....after a lifetime of Blue only...or drab green..

Hubby sent me TEDDY BEAR WITH GRANDMA VISOR BUT THE TEE SHIRT IS HYSTERICAL..

says..Grandma's the name
spoilin's the game!

lol..he is in deep stuff now!! And i am having a delightful time shopping!!

I am doing my darnest to help the economy!!

It's still Mothers day in your neck of the woods..So enjoy every minute of it!!

fly:toast: :party: O8)

[autorank]

44. You got that right!

We "Ignore" the obvious at our peril. Great metaphor!

This effort has already created serious negatives for us in a general
population that didn't care for is in the first place, the people of Pakistan.

The liars are revered and the truth tellers get treated like Det. Simone.

[glitch]

6. Not just you - second that vote. K & R

Shocking that anyone would let a pnaci get near them at this point.

[NashVegas]

5. Gee, DICK, A Shame You Couldn't Have Pulled That Out of Your Ass 8 Years Ago

Or when Daniel Pearl was killed.

[knowbody0]

7. you made my brain hurt on Mother's Day!

[autorank]

10. Does this help?

Happy Mother's Day!!!

[knowbody0]

14. oh you beautiful sweet man

thanks

[autorank]

48. my pleasure

:kick:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Politicians and the Pentagon have a bottomless supply of fearsome bogeyman to frighten us with.

And, milk us for every dime we earn.

[autorank]

11. They're going to set up IVs for all of us

"The depths of their insincerity are bottomless." (approx. Gore Vidal)

[Me.]

12. Did You Ever Notice

That in interviews Holbrook sounds like Cheney both in timbre of voice and manner of speaking. Funny how they are both named Dick.

[autorank]

34. Twin Dicks - Double trouble;)n/t

[autorank]

13. Thank you BuzzFlash.Com

Posted - Main Page May 11, 2009




BuzzFlash.com

[althecat]

15. I have a really bad feeling about all this too......

:kick: n r

[autorank]

18. I needed that

"In Treatment" is not on tonight. So tell me more ...

[althecat]

19. Well this doesn't look to me like a quagmire - more a debacle...

Guerilla wars are never won - and in the process of pursuing insurgents the inevitable consequence seems to be alienation of the population.

When the west stumped up $5 Billion to pay for an offensive against the Taliban I could immediately sense disaster.

We can only pray that we are wrong... however it would seem unlikely. This enemy was not defeated by the Russians now by the US and Europeans and when being attacked by its former allies the Pakistanis it would seem unlikely that it would not have an inside line on how the offensive is being pushed against it.

The Pakistanis need to make as much smoke as possible in order to show the West that they are getting their money's worth - but in the medium term the only logical conclusion to all this seems likely to be the fall of Pakistani moderates and the arming of madmen with nuclear weapons.

[bleever]

17. What do we call the post- post-9/11 mindset?

If we remain perpetual victims, then the terrorists really win.

Dude: still my hero.

:yourock:

[autorank]

31. Mutual admiration from this end as well

:patriot: and it's NO act!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

23. Ahmed Rashid is a very interesting person.

I accidentally caught one of his talks at the Nat'l Press Club about a year ago. He very quietly demolished everything that the speakers ahead of him had laid down. And he said something that drew my attention because no one was talking about it then -- and, they still aren't now. He said the most important rebel networking wasn't between the Taliban and al Qaida in Afghanistan, or even between Afghanistani rebel forces and those in Pakistan. He said in his view, it was the networking going on between rebels in the independent territories and those that worked in urban centers in Pakistan . . . .

He didn't seem to think, at the time, that there was a chance in hell that those nukes would get loose. That was last summer.

[autorank]

32. That's great. You're "knowledgeable" on ths subject.

That must have been outstanding. A real expert.

I saw an excellent article in DAWN, a Pakistani daily, on the problem that the larger society has
with this situation. There may be a page load error but here's the link. It's outstanding.
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/11-talibanisation-and-identity-crisis--06

Basically, the article talks about the revulsion they feel at the Taliban and the viciousness they
display and the anti-U.S. feelings generated by the Predator Drone attacks. There's much more and it's
a great read. If the link doesn't work now, try it later. This is the only time I've had a problem
with this site.

[EFerrari]

43. I don't know very much at all but Rashid obviously does!

Have you checked out this guy, autorank?

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/georgepacker/2008/11/kilcullen-on-af.html

Charlie Rose also has a good interview with him at his site. At bottom, he's a true believer but his grasp of effective counterinsurgency is the best.

[autorank]

37. DAWN - quote & link Pakistan's identity crisis

The writing is very good in their papers, btw.

"What becomes apparent is that the Pakistani public is faced with a hydra-headed monster, and it is unable to agree on which is the greatest of all evils. Do we, the people, react to the lack of governance at the centre and the occupation of our territories by an ideological group? Do we, as a Muslim majority, protest the perversion of Islam at the hands of violent, suicide-bombing militants? Do we, as feminists, decry the violation of women’s rights? Or do we, as humanists, focus on the plight of hundreds of thousands of internally displaced people who for too long have been written off as collateral damage? Indeed, understanding the paralysis of civil society in the face of the Taliban onslaught lies at the heart of the identity crisis that Pakistan has faced since its inception. "

DAWN.COM May 11, 2009

[truedelphi]

24. Few people outside of Serbia realize that it was Holbrooke and Armitage who

back in 1990 or 1991, went over to Serbia and let Milosevik know that he could do whatever he needed to do within his borders to handle internal problems, such as Milosevik felt he was facing with the immigration of Muslim Albanians.

Thus setting it up so that the USA could have NATO planes bomb Serbia back to the Stone Age, before the decade was over.

Oh, and we made that place radioactive with our DU weeaponry as well.

[EFerrari]

26. I never knew that. n/t

[autorank]

33. Right, I do remember that. The old "mixed signals" deal

That's before we wanted a big base in Albania, which is supposed to make us scary to those who
use some supply route. We should spend all this money on helping us be more competitive in world
trade. People would greet that with great joy and probably buy more product;)

[leftstreet]

25. K&R

[Hubert Flottz]

27. "Where there's smoke there's work!"

"Jobs is on the way, don't take off your shoes!"

Let the next PNAC induced stampede to war begin!

Shoes for industry, shoes for the dead...

Ben Dover

PS. K&R

PPS...The Gop/PNAC's final solution on the job creation problem?

PPPS...I can't go to war no more, my MOPAR jeep is broke down and the company is bankrupt!

PPPPS...Peace is Kaput!

[autorank]

36. This is a jobs bill ... forgot the credo

Can't have guns and butter but you can try.

Look what happened last time. Things were great, then we tried that in the 60's and oops!

That was the beginning of our great denial.

PS. Nice, "Ben Dover" - the prototype worker assuming the position, the only one available.

[Hubert Flottz]

39. The PNACers were on the same track that the USSR...

was on, when their country crashed and burned. McSame and his buddy Foreclosure Phil would have driven the final nail in America's coffin.

The GOP has ruined the country to the point where it's on the verge of economic collapse. The life blood has been sucked out of our country by the top 2%. If they supported the troops and the country they would pay their fair share and quit whining 24/7...

[pnutbutr]

28. weakening government

The Taliban is growing stronger while the Pakistani government gets weaker. There have been ties between the ISI and the Taliban in Pakistan for years and it's only getting worse. The use of 9/11 to instill fear is stupid but the things mentioned are happening and Pakistan as a nuclear power cannot have it's government fall to the Taliban. It would be devastating for the world to have nuclear weapons fall into the hands of the Taliban, a group that has shown it cares little for anyone or anything but itself and it's misguided goals.

[Echo In Light]

29. "Bipartisan = A larger than usual deception is being carried out against the US populace."

~ George Carlin

[autorank]

45. He was the master

Hadn't seen that one but it's perfect!

[Wednesdays]

30. K&R

:kick:

[autorank]

35. Here's how complex it gets - Indian troops in Afghanistan

The president of Pakistan gave India transit rights to Afghanistan. India will have troops there supporting U.S. efforts. This trade off by the president creates huge problems because the routes go through the area where the fighting rages. It's a good deal for India and the U.S. but it muddles things just when the Pakistani public is finding out about the murderous Taliban assaults and is ready to insist on action.

Indian Tranit Route Through Pakistan to Afghanistan
http://www.daily.pk/pakistan/pakistannews/10008-zardari-is-kind-india-should-ask-him-to-hand-over-kashmir-hunza-a-gilgit-too-.html

"Just as the tide was turning against the so-called Pakistani Taliban because of loss of public support, comes the news that Asif Zardari has signed a transit trade agreement that gives India the right to overland trade with Afghanistan and beyond – something that even Bangladesh has refused to give to India in the case of trade with Burma. That is the extent to which Zardari’s ‘My Democracy’ can go to accommodate the enemy.

"As I predicted in my article “ The Future of Pakistan" only two days ago, it is America’s plan to induct Indian troops into Afghanistan and have a shorter supply line from India to Afghanistan via Lahore and Peshawar. Clearly that would be resisted and not just by the Afghan Taliban. This transit agreement is the red rag to the bull that would expand the scope of the Civil War in Pakistan and create ‘opportunities’ for the USA. If the Pakistani political parties do not unite to oppose this agreement, the people will. That is a prospect that should be avoided. Would the armed forces rise to the occasion and save Pakistan from Asif Zardari?"

[earth mom]

38. K & R!

:kick:

[puebloknot]

40. K&R This whole theme is reminiscent of Hitler's drive for domination ...

... all over Europe. Plotting and intrigue were the order of the day in terms of stirring various regional factions to do the work of bringing down existing structures so The Reich could storm in and take over.

Here's where my mind goes with all of this: We are in trouble financially here at home. How long can we continue to fund foreign wars/occupations? Forget for a moment the legality of the whole thing. The fiscal picture screams out to anyone with two neurons firing. If we keep pouring money into the Middle East (to protect our interests there, they say), then the balance sheet says that all things domestic simply go to hell. We *can* be the next defeated Reich, the next fallen Rome. If we try, and we seem to be trying.

How can we win in Afghanistan? Short of nuking that region, how many precious American lives, not to mention the lives of those who rightly dwell in that area, are We the People willing to countenance as offerings on the alter of ... what? Delusional world dominance, that's what!

Just as 9/11 is still being used as an excuse to fight them over there because they're packing a suitcase to come over here, Hitler kept enough of his people in fear and delusion to finally, at the end, bring children and old people into his army of Aryan righteousness. Where is the money coming from for this madness? How many lives and how much money is Obama, et al. willing to put up for this ongoing debacle in Iraq and the surrounding region? We've destabilized the region. So we "stabilize" it by the use of remote murdering machines? How fallen are the mighty -- the country that sent men to die at Normandy and enjoyed the respect of the world for many years.

I live near Los Alamos. The very air here still reverberates with questions of our opening Pandora's Box with the invention of the bomb. We justified that (perhaps rightly so; perhaps not) with the fact that we were fighting an enemy that attacked us. Now we pride ourselves on a technology that allows killing with no personal moral involvement, as easy and "fun" as a video game. And the "bad guys" who disappear off the screen are living, breathing men, women, and children, who only want to live, as we all want to live.


I do not personally know who was behind 9/11, and the official story has a lot of holes. This continues to bother me, though: Deliver enough hopelessness to a population, and short of murdering them, every one, we may begin to see expanding violence through suicide bombings and perhaps nuclear "accidents" on the part of the people who were blamed for 9/11 in the first place, and "Over Here." That part of Bush's delusional Holodeck fantasy could prove to have some truth behind it.

The bigger picture is whether and when the rest of the world is going to say no to Dominator America, out of pure instinctual self-preservation. Sadly, I think that citizens of other countries will awaken (have awakened) to what American is truly about, long before our own citizenry, in general, wakes up.

A lot of brave people have marched and protested and been arrested, already, over this issue. "Hell no, we won't go" seems to be out of vogue, however, with our young people being inducted into the military for purposes they never intended to volunteer for; to wit: My daughter has a young friend, age 23, who served a tour in Iraq as part of the New Mexico National Guard. She signed up because she's poor, and wanted to pay for college. We all held our collective breath until she returned safely about a year ago. Now she's being deployed for a second term in The Green Zone. I cannot shake the vision of teenage boys and doddering old men being pinned with a medal of honor by Hitler, before he shipped them off to certain death.

Mr. Obama, this is no way to end a war. Remember? We know what you inherited. Now, you are called on to step up to the defense of the Constitution of the United States, with all its inherent danger to your person, just as my father and his comrades put their lives on the line for this country 60 years ago. America does not torture. America does not engage in foreign wars of aggression. America tends mightily to its citizens' right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (to include shelter, health care, and freedom from fear that our beloved children will be snatched from our loving arms and "disappeared" into the mists of unconstitutional foreign wars). America holds accountable those who are guilty of treason. Remember?

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."

[autorank]

42. Great stuff. Pandora's Box?

Isn't that where all those unintended consequences come from.

This region of the world not a place where many do well, including those who live there. The politics are violent and the economies are weak, long on promise but short on delivery. We have fantasies of huge inventories oil and gas, competing with the Chinese, for it all. Makes sense, they're as desperate as we are to fuel their economy. But something strange will happen, maybe planned or maybe just randomly to screw everything up. I don't think we're ready to see just how badly things will go if we stick our fingers in this nest.

Thanks for the great comment!

[truedelphi]

49. What a fabulous piece of writing. n/t

[puebloknot]

50. Thank you!!! nt

[autorank]

41. Kick

:kick:

[DemReadingDU]

46. evening kick

Appreciate all your articles, there is a lot of history that I am just now learning.

:hi:

[althecat]

47. And another

:kick:

[puebloknot]

51. Kick! This one is superb! nt

[L0oniX]

52. Kicky

[autorank]

53. Clique;)

:think:

[L0oniX]

54. Punt

[L0oniX]

55. Bewmp