What do I even say to this person?

[SmileyRose]

A co-worker, not exactly a friend, but more than a mere acquaintance - married 25 years. They had 5 kids. He made a half decent salary and she was grateful she could choose to stay home through most of it. The youngest will graduate from HS this year.

She confided to me recently that within 5 years of her marriage she realized he didn't actually love her. He'd been cheating on her the whole time. She already had 3 kids by then and since the guy was not physically or verbally abusive she had a lot of trouble finding emotional support in her family or friends to leave. Over time it got a little uglier I guess. She said he was never outright abusive but pretty dismissive and neglectful. He slowly wore her down and her self esteem is pretty much in the commode. She's more than 100# overweight, and always seems almost inappropriately grateful if anyone in the office does even the smallest thing for her.

A different woman close friend and neighbor, in a worse but somewhat similar circumstance committed suicide not long ago. One of my brothers, who's been married more than 20 years, told me as soon as the youngest turns 18 he's out. He doesn't want another woman, he just wants to stop having the life sucked out of him. As I held my co-worker on that recent Friday and she cried it all out after work I started wondering how many people stay in extreme unhappy living arrangements only because of economic dependence.

The truth is, this woman will probably never ever leave. I don't think she will be able to muster up the mental strength it takes to fight her kids, her whole family, their friends and her own low esteem to fight for her right to feel truly worthy of love and care - which would mean leaving the cheating husband. She has medical insurance through him, it's not even available where we work, and the only access she has to any mental health services is through her husband's plan - meaning he'll know.


I guess I'm posting this because the whole single payer thing is all over the DU right now. I guess I just want to remind us all of one of the reasons why universal access is so damn important. We have to stop tying the "privilege" of medical care to a job, or to marriage, or to parents or anything else. We have to be able to access it privately. We do have people in really abusive situations that do stay only because of the medical care. We have people staying in abusive employment situation because of medical care. We are sucking the life and creativity and joy out of the poor, out of the middle class who have medical care but won't if they do what true to themselves.

We have serious problems in this country and the intelligence and work ethic amongst our own people to solve it. But instead we are choosing to hold everyone hostage to their current relationships, current employers etc. Wouldn't it be better to have people working where they do for positive reasons or in relationships for positive reasons instead of "I need the medical care".

[ginnyinWI]

1. and they stay in bad jobs for health care, too.

Either we need nationalized healthcare, or it needs to get a lot less expensive--and that's not likely to happen any time soon.

Your friend does need to get that counseling, and if the husband wants to know why, it's because she needs it. Tell him she needs to find out why she gained all that weight and why she is so unhappy. He'll read between the lines.

[roguevalley]

18. poor thing. she needs to make her life for herself. Exercise, get

happy and fuck him. Go on separate vacations, read books, get a hobby. She can find her self esteem again without him even if he never leaves. :( I feel for her. It isn't easy but its doable.

[grasswire]

2. I have mixed feelings here.

On the one hand, it seems exceedingly provincial to think that we -- in the here and now, in this place -- should not have to make those hard choices that billions of people the world over must make (or even worse, do not have any choice at in the matter of desperation vs. security). Millions of people live as slaves, millions of people live as wage slaves, millions of people live in hardscrabble poverty the likes of which even the poorest American can barely comprehend. Millions elsewhere live in cruel situations, sweat shops, forced labor, and abuses of all kinds.

On the other hand, the reality is that in America the choice of living a life of quiet desperation with some security vs. taking the risk of no safety net is easier than elsewhere. There are services for women who suffer from domestic violence. There are mental health services and public health clinics. There are churches and charities and various kinds of assistance that exist only in our society.

I don't see how we will get to the kind of system we progressives/liberals want without a bigger change than we (apparently) are willing to demand.

Does that make sense?

[SmileyRose]

4. A point well taken

in that our relatively high standard of living is what gives us the luxury of even giving the very idea of emotional happiness any thought at all. And I do appreciate the point that much of the rest of the world is far too busy fighting for a crumb of half rotten food to even think about medical care, let alone happiness.

Though I do think I'll pass on mentioning that to my co-worker. (naturally)

[Stargazer99]

5. Not had to deal with the system by the sounds of it

What do you do when the Domestic Violence center become too full? Or even getting to one when one lives out in the country. Medical? Are you kidding? One of my adult children needs surgery on her knee. At times she can barely walk. There is a tumor in the knee. Oh sure she can go to the emergency room but she is already being sued by one doctor. She lives on $500 a month. Have you paid an office bill WITHOUT insurance? It is tough enough for some with insurance. Public health clinics still charge, mental health services are limited and unavailbe to those that cannot pay a small sum. That is the problem with this country...most have some health and dental care so those that don't suffer because many of you think there is a safety net. Wake up!

[grasswire]

14. you have no idea

....so please don't be judgmental. Of course not all services are available to everyone and there isn't enough to go around. It's extremely difficult and exhausting and heartbreaking for people who need help to find the resources. I fully get that. I know all the down side of it. But until the American people are ready to demand that our system be replaced with a socialized system it isn't going to get any better.

[AllentownJake]

3. My parents hated each other

From the time I was 12 till about a week before he died I never saw them be nice to each other. They slept in separate bedrooms for 15 years. They stayed married till my father died 2 years ago.


My father's way of dealing with it was to become a functional drunk, not an abusive one but an occasional embarrassing one. My mother became overweight and hate to say this on mother's day but kind of a bitch.

My mother has been a much happier and nicer person since he died. Hate to say it but its the truth.

They stayed together because my brother was autistic and divorce really wasn't an option. Its also probably the reason why they started fighting. I don't know if them staying together was for the better or the worse :shrug:

[SmileyRose]

7. We had something similar at my house

I don't know what made it go from love enough to get married in the first place to complete and utter hate on wheels but Mom turned into the bitch from hell and Dad, who depended on her for her brains and her ability to make the money stretch far enough, just shut down and took it. My sister, the oldest, said by the time she was 6 she knew they hated each other. Dad died a couple of years ago. But in my case Mom got worse instead of better. 3 of the 5 kids have pretty much cut her off. Like you, I'm not sure if them staying together was good or bad. I think it was a case of damned if they do and damned if they don't.

There seem to be more of those kinds of marriages than truly happy ones. Anyways, I don't think your parents were a rarity. Now, divorce is a little more socially acceptable and blended families seem to be more the norm.

[DCKit]

15. Yikes! And I though my family was a Greek tragedy. At least my F'd up parents divorced.

Seriously though, what do you do when three of your four siblings turn out to be just as hateful as your (my) lousy parents? I laughed my ass off when I got a note from my oldest sister lecturing me for "isolating" myself from the family. Guess I'm supposed to make myself available to whatever abuse they want to heap upon me at their convenience because it's somehow cruel of me to deprive them of the opportunity. If it's a choice between them and continued sanity, it's easy enough to just keep screening the calls.

That conswervative logic gets me every time. Oh, and don't even get me started on the projection. There's nothing quite so funny as getting lectures on religion and morals from a serial adulterer (among other things).

[annabanana]

6. I wholeheartedly agree that this is an underreported consequence

of our disgraceful health care system. The toll this kind of enslavement takes on the soul is immeasurable.

[Fuzz]

8. Believe it or not, there are men in that situation too.

[SmileyRose]

9. I do know.

I tend to communicate mostly with women so my examples are from women - but I deliberately chose the word "people" stay in abusive relationships/employment because I am fully aware men are in the same situations more often than we know.


Edit to correct my usual dropped letters......

[knitter4democracy]

10. I'm slowly getting out of a similar situation.

STBX is a narcissist, and he spent years cheating on me (didn't know until last fall). Years during which he blamed everything on me and wore me down and wore me down until I was just trying to protect the kids from his rages and absences. Honestly, the divorce was his idea (he's already engaged to the latest mistress, and our divorce isn't final yet--neither is hers). I'm not sure I ever would've left him (at least not any time soon) if he hadn't pressed the issue. I know that therapy was starting to help me find myself and my strength again, but I really meant it when I said for better or worse, to death do us part.

Honestly, the main reason I'm doing half as well as I am is my support network of friends, family, a good church, and my therapist (best one I've ever found). My lawyer gets major kudos, too. It's not easy, but ever since he moved out this last January, I've been figuring out who I am and becoming more like my old self every day.

Oh, and STBX has to pay my health costs, per the court order. Apparently, that's not unusual at all. The judge didn't even blink when my lawyer asked for it.

[Lorien]

13. I'm really glad that you have your support network. So many women don't

or even feel blamed by their family members for their husband's misdeeds, especially if the family is conservative. I have one friend in that situation right now. Her husband is an absolute bastard but her family keeps telling her that she should feel "fortunate" to have a man, and they warn her that because she's in her late 40's she will never find another (naturally I beg to differ). My guess is that you'll be doing great in a few years while your ex will be headed for divorce court again. They don't change when they change partners. His latest mistress will find that out soon enough!

[knitter4democracy]

17. My family's fairly conservative, but they're taking my side.

My dad guessed years ago that S was cheating on me, and he's been a real rock for me, as has my stepmom (someone whom I thought in a million years would be so loving or helpful).

For them, it's about the infidelity and the abuse. Even Jesus said divorce is okay when there's adultery.

[varelse]

11. K&R (nt)

[Lorien]

12. We need single payer, a far better educational system, affordable

college tuition and the ERA to allow women to become truly independent. I'm single but have lost all of my savings to health care costs that my insurance wouldn't cover, and have often worked for companies that paid women up to 40% less for the exact same work that was given to their male coworkers. I can see why women who may not have had the benefits of a top notch education would find it difficult to leave your friend's situation. Hell, sometimes I wish I had married just because I'm so damn TIRED of the fight, but my ex-fiance was just like your coworker's husband, so I suppose that I was lucky to see the reality of the situation before it was too late. I hope that she does find the strength to leave. Sadly, it's going to be rough for her either way. :-(

[SmileyRose]

16. Women do have a harder time achieving economic independence.

between the system being set up toward men and women checking off the grid for myriad reasons like raising kids and caring for elderly parents, far too many women are dependent upon someone else for the basics of life. I am unsure what to do about the whole host of issues that create that - but with the medical care issue, it seems easy enough to solve and we should.

[noiretextatique]

19. she needs to find something else to fulfill her

because he never will. church is a good way to socialize, meet new friends, and take stock of your life. if she doesn't want to see a counselor, perhaps she can talk to a minister.
perhaps she can find a walking partner who will help her get moving so she will feel better physically. also, a good cleanse, like a raw foods detox cleanse, can make you feel better in a relatively short period of time.
bottom line...she cannot change him, but she can change herself. i know that's hard to believe when you are down and depressed, but doing nothing will just ensure more of the same in the future.
it was probably a big step for her to confide in you...that's a start.