US Soldiers, Attacked, Kill a 12-Year-Old Boy

[proud2BlibKansan]

Mosul, Iraq - American soldiers opened fire and killed a 12-year old boy after a grenade hit their convoy in Mosul on Thursday.

The boy was found with ten thousand Iraqi dinars in his hand - worth less than $9. U.S. officials said the money is evidence of a disturbing new trend.

"We have every reason to believe that insurgents are paying children to conduct these attacks or assist the attackers in some capacity, undoubtedly placing the children in harm's way," a U. S. military spokesman wrote in an email on Saturday.

But eyewitnesses said the boy, identified as Omar Musa Salih, was standing by the side of the road selling fruit juice - a common practice in Iraq - and had nothing to do with the attack.

more . . . http://www.truthout.org/051009B?n

[NNN0LHI]

1. Recommended

[pnutbutr]

2. terrible

but at the same time you have to think what it would be like to have a grenade thrown at you and what your own response would be. Sit there pondering what do I do next or take action to prevent any possible continuation of the attack.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnutbutr]

4. not apologist

Just reminding people that the soldiers are people also and you need to think of their situation as well. They don't want to be there having grenades thrown at them and just want to make it home to their families like everyone else.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnutbutr]

15. join

people join the military for numerous reasons but I doubt you will hear any of them say they joined to kill children. I almost joined in order to get free flight training. My father was sent to Vietnam and served on a patrol boat even though he joined the Coast Guard to do search and rescue which he did prior to and after his deployment. Many people today join for the training they get and money for college. I know several people who joined for that reason. Unable to pay for college, tired of working pizza delivery and wanted to get some help to improve their life situation.

[JonLP24]

16. More then that in some cases

I recall sitting at a bus stop going to apply for a job then a recruiter approached me and said 'Hey! What job do you know trains for over 300 different jobs?' without asking me what I was doing. It sure sounded good when I was desperate to find work. I also know someone who joined because he was homeless in Washington DC which isn't necessarily a safe place to be homeless.

Many choose "non-combat" jobs such as mechanic, truck-driver(me), cook, whatever. However those in those jobs sometimes find themselves in combat situations and lack the training many in infantry have to handle those situations properly.

[Shell Beau]

25. Many that join are 18.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Some are even younger than that

They can get in if they are under 18 if their parents give permission. And ROTC starts pulling them in as young as 7th or 8th grade. The recruiters started calling my house when my boys were 14.

[Xenotime]

32. Many of them have forgotten about their families...

Studies show they more like drones than human anymore. Which makes them very dangerous when the come back to the country.

[Duckhunter935]

5. Yes we all must be robots

And never bring up another point of view, just mirror each other. Shame on them for that.

[Jester Messiah]

7. It's all part of the strategy of using child soldiers

If that's indeed what the kid was. Part of the strategy of using a child soldier is the shock and horror experienced by the forces engaging the child soldier, that moment of hesitation and moral struggle that gives the child soldier the perfect opening to pull his trigger (or throw his grenade.) 12-year-old fingers can pull a trigger just as easily as 22-year-old fingers. The forces operating against us in Iraq are nothing if not pragmatic in this regard.

All the more reason, IMHO, for us to get the hell out of there. What purpose does it serve for us to remain?

[JonLP24]

9. You could be right

But not once have I seen a child soldier in Iraq. I drove semi-trucks that delivered supplies(actually escorted TCNs that had more supplies) in convoys and the majority of kids just wave. Some of them throw rocks but we just drove thru. I wasn't in infantry or anything like that so I wasn't in any firefights so I don't doubt your account at all. Just giving my perspective.

[Jester Messiah]

11. Oh, I have no idea if that's what the kid was. I was speaking hypothetically.

Our soldiers are trained to kill kids like the one in the article precisely for the reasons I mentioned, but that doesn't make it any less of a horror when it happens. In fact, it leads to innocent kids getting killed because in a war zone, how is a soldier under fire supposed to differentiate potential threats from actual ones? If there were a rock-solid guarantee that there were no child soldiers that would be one thing, but such a guarantee is a fairy tale. However, if we weren't there, it wouldn't be an issue.

Another poster said that, as the attackers in this case, we can't judge the morality of the tactic, but I disagree. One faction's immorality doesn't excuse that of another faction. It just makes both factions equally immoral. Those of us who observe should feel free, if not obligated, to call out both sides.

[JonLP24]

14. I know, sorry for that misunderstanding

I noticed in your previous post that you said If that's indeed what the kid was.

I was just giving an anecdote of what I saw but I agree such a guarantee is a fairy tale. Myself, I've been on 23 conveys(Others been on 30-35, I broke my hand 7-8 months in(can't carry a weapon w/ a broken hand) and my 1st mission we had two trucks struck my IEDs(not my truck), one mission recieving small arms fire(Our trucks were fully uparmored, the TCNs were concerned because they have no armor and drive Mercedes Semi Trucks) other then that are missions were pickup and dropoff so my experience in combat is strickly limited so I'm not refuted you one bit. We did have an attempted hijacking off a TCN truck but we scared them away so I didn't count that.

FYI, a TCN is a third-country national that comes from India, Kenya, Phillipines, wherever that do truck driving missions for the Army for little pay $500 a month. They usually go in 20-25 unarmored trucks while the Army, Air Force, Navy truck driving units escort them with 5 trucks and trailors, 3 gun truck humvees, 2 trucks in case a truck breaks down with one serving for maintenance purposes.

Like the other poster said about morally authority on this I agree with you and the poster about this. We have no business being there and we never have.

edited to add. I meant 23, my driver's badge and orders say 18 but the actual account is 23. I forgot how many actual miles.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. I have heard that same thing from a lot of Iraq vets

Thanks for adding your first hand perspective.

[Smith_3]

10. Moreover, the USA as an attacker is not in the position to argue the morality of these tactics.

[JonLP24]

6. As much as I can give a little bit a leeway considering a grenade was thrown

It is totally wrong for the military to automatically implicate the little boy as part of the attack. One witness said it was a man in his 20's and atleast 2 said the boy wasn't involved. I'm not saying it is ok at all to kill someone who is 12, I'm just saying with a grenade thrown you have to react. Other then that I can't say a whole lot because I wasn't there to have a complete opinion one way or the other.

on edit: It would be more appropriate for the military to say we are deeply sorry and should've been more careful.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

26. since it is an illegal war, and Iraq did NOTHING to us, there's no excuse

period.

People need to use their heads for more than a hatrack.

The war is illegal.

Everything we do over there is wrong, illegal.

No excuses.

[Smith_3]

8. This is nothing new. It's always part of asymmetric warfare. One of the reasons you don't get in it.

A paramilitaric force defending against an invasion of a superior army will always do what is possible to get the local civilians involved and thus making it a "people's war". This often includes, for instance, extemely brutal treatment of captees to provoke responses of the invaders against civilians. Regardless of in this particular incident the 12 year old actually threw the bomb, this type of thing was common during Vietnam. The invading side is not in the position to argue the morality or amorality of such things, since it is they who initiated the conflict.

[pnutbutr]

12. but it's not

a "peoples war" It is isolated groups trying to disrupt the US and Iraqi governments attempts to end the violence and instill stability for the people. These groups routinely kill civilians opposed to their ideology as we can see every day. The recruitment of children into war is always morally unacceptable and it's disgusting to me that anyone would try to justify it.

[Smith_3]

17. Justifiable or not, America is not in the position to lament.

[pnutbutr]

18. do you approve of

the use of children in war?

[Smith_3]

19. Do you approve the use of airstrikes in civilian areas?

[pnutbutr]

20. do you approve of

militants using civilian areas to launch attacks?

[Smith_3]

21. Don't confuse cause and effect.

Guerilla tactics are guerilla tactics. It is the only way one can confront a overwhelmingly superior military.

[pnutbutr]

22. so diplomacy

doesn't work?

[Nihil]

38. Sure as fuck didn't work to keep the US out of Iraq did it?

:eyes:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

27. The Iraqis are defending against invaders - the US

if someone invaded our country, and displaced millions of people while causing the deaths of up to a million, what would you do?

They are defending their country against illegal invaders.

[pnutbutr]

28. I wouldn't

send children to fight them. :eyes:

[Wednesdays]

23. And some people wonder why soldiers come back home as basket cases

PTSD, anyone? :cry:

Good God, everyone's a loser in this scenario. We really need to get out of there.

[JonLP24]

24. Delete

Wrong thread.

[Vidar]

29. So now we're knocking over lemonade stands.

[ConcernedCanuk]

36. Are we surprised?

.
.
.

sadly . .

no

[Vidar]

39. You are correct.

[Hubert Flottz]

30. Blame the people who sent the soldiers to invade a country

that never should have been invaded.

[cwcwmack]

31. I thought we were supposed to be OUT of Iraq by now...

taps fingers on table...

[Xenotime]

33. You need to get behind Obama and His plan.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. We need to bring the troops home sooner rather than later

How many more Iraqi kids need to die?

[NNN0LHI]

40. This kid was still in diapers when the US invaded Iraq and probably tortured and killed his parents

Think about that.

Don