Charging rent to homeless

[amyrose2712]

Imagine you’re a single mother. You’re living in a homeless shelter making barely enough at your job as a day care worker to feed your daughter and pay the bills. Now what would you do if that shelter suddenly told you in order to stay you had to pay rent? This is the reality for Princess Seyborn and hundreds of other working homeless families in New York City.

The city is starting to charge working homeless families like Seyborn to stay in the city’s publicly run shelters. Seyborn now has to pay $345 dollars a month in rent. “I tried to explain it on my best behalf,” Seyborn said. “I don’t have it and all I’m getting is pens and paper in my face saying sign here and sign here, and I refuse to sign.”

http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/05/11/charging-rent-to-homeless/

[ananda]

1. Let em live in Bushvilles.

Let em eat cake!

Heartless bureaucracy SO sucks!

[moez]

2. Well....

Princess should just get some money from the king...

[pnutbutr]

3. um

If you are living in a homeless shelter what bills do you have?

[Toucano]

6. It says they are working so,

transportation, food, cell phone. Maybe child support in some cases, childcare in other cases.

[pnutbutr]

8. If you have a job

you should be capable of paying something. Millions of people do it everyday.

[Toucano]

9. Perhaps they should.

But you asked what bills could a homeless person have as though, simply by losing a permanent residence, all other expenses vanish.

Traditionally, the concept of a shelter is not something people were required to pay for. People who could find a job, would then have a chance to save up for the deposit and rent to get their own place.

[pnutbutr]

12. and shelters

generally provide some type of food for the homeless residents. Cell phone is a luxury to a homeless person and public transportation is fairly cheap.

[Toucano]

15. In some cases, a phone may be a luxury.

What if their job is working for an agency that needs to contact them to tell them when and where to go to work today?

In some cases, it could be a necessary tool for maintaining employment and seeking employment.

The point is, I don't know every individual's circumstances, but I can imagine real scenarios so I withhold judgment.

A monthly transportation pass is $81. If you don't have the $81 at the start of the month, you end up paying per trip ($2) and it ends up being more expensive.

I don't know if there is currently a subsidy or charity that issues transportation passes at the start of the month. There was at one time.

[robinlynne]

26. If you are in a shelter you can certainly get food stamps and a bus pass.

Food stamps are much more available now, since Obama took office.

[StrictlyRockers]

42. They are not available to everyone who needs them.

I speak from personal experience. Don't believe the hype.

[robinlynne]

47. I mean now this year. food stamps are absolutley available to all low income families

now. Even if you were not eligible last year check again, you may be now. And they give you LOTS of food stamps, more than you need. So you can buy good food. My friends on food stamps are shopping twice as much as I can. 90.00 per week for a single person, for example.

[Hannah Bell]

52. a single person gets $360+ per month in food stamps, you say? link?

Apr. 1, 2009 through Sept. 30, 2009

People in Household    Maximum Monthly Allotment 
1                           $    200
 
2                           $    367
 
3                           $    526
 
4                           $    668
 
5                           $    793
 
etc.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/applicant_recipients/eligibility.htm#Resources

[robinlynne]

62. People I know. I don't get them, so no link. $90.00 per week. One single young woman.

[Hannah Bell]

66. does she eat $400 worth of food? the $ in the stimulus package were to expand

the funds available to cover the expected increase in recipients, not to double the benefit - to my knowledge.

The agency distributing the food stamps says $200 is the *maximum* monthly benefit for one.

[robinlynne]

78. It is possible that she told me 90 a week, and it is in fact biweekly. BUt I dont know why

someone would lie about that....

[Bill McBlueState]

71. your anecdote vs. government data

I'm going with the data.

[Hannah Bell]

51. no, you can't. the homeless shelter i volunteered at (capacity about 100)

got ten, count em, ten, free bus passes from the city - to distribute as it liked.

[Bill McBlueState]

70. which bill expanded food stamp funding?

The President can't just say, "Let's have more food stamps." Congress has to fund it. Did that happen? :shrug:

[robinlynne]

77. the stimulus package, I believe.

[lib2DaBone]

72. Food Stamps are NOT available. I was just denied...

living in a shelter is pure hell. Sleeping in the one set of clothes you own... then trying to go out the next day and look for work that doesn't exist.. with bus pass money you don't have while dragging along a scremaing hungry kid. Ya... this is pure heaven.

Cell phones are not a luxury. Have you tried to locate a pay phone recently? They no longer exist. (Most pay phones have been removed and the ones that remain are damaged) And DO NOT ask the shelter to use their phone... it is NOT allowed.

All the people here who are trying to paint this lifestyle as glamorous and easy.. should try living it for a few days.

Typical Republican-Christian-Fundy Bull crap.. "I got mine and to hell with you"

[ThomCat]

17. A cell phone is not a luxery if you have a child.

The day care center or school MUST have a way to reach you if there is a problem.

Also, you can't get a job if an employer can't contact you. How can you keep a job if you can't contact your employer?

Your idea that homeless people have no bills and certainly have money for rent seems to indication that you have never been homeless and have no idea what the go through. In fact, you seem to have nothing but harsh judgments for homeless people. Perhaps you should stop looking down your nose and learn a bit more about what their lives are really like?

I was homeless for a time. There are quite a few DUers who were homeless at some point in the past. You can ask and learn. There is no reason to remain deliberately clueless and hostile.

[pnutbutr]

20. what in the world

we all ever do before cell phones? I've never met a homeless person with a cell phone. I used to spend a lot of time in D.C. and on many occasions have bought homeless people meals, sat down and talked with them for an hour or so. Some were homeless by choice, others lost their jobs, had their family leave them, some were completely fucking insane but not one ever mentioned back due bills as the reason for their homelessness.

[noiretextatique]

21. hospital bills

one example of an expense that could disrupt your entire life.
and if you are sick and can't work, how can you pay any bills?

[amyrose2712]

27. My thought exactly. If i didn't have my family I could have

easily been there myself.

[noiretextatique]

30. dupe eom

[noiretextatique]

33. if i hadn't chosen the HMO plan with my employer

i'd be in a lot of debt now. if i had a PPO when i was treated for breast cancer last year, my co-pay would have been 10% instead of $10.00 per office visit. for my radiation treatment alone, the bill would have been $10,000.00 instead of $10.00 per visit. i can't even imagine what i would have owed for the surgery, ct scan, mri, and other tests...but i'd guess it would total in the $50,000.00 range. there is no way in hell i could have paid a $50,000.00 bill.
thank goodness i choose the HMO, but what about a woman just like me who chose the PPO option? it just doesn't make sense that one person pays $10.00 while another person pays $50,000.00 for the same health care.

it's a total racket that needs serious reform. the only way to achieve reform is to eliminate for-profit health care.

btw, i am doing fine now.

[ThomCat]

56. That is wonderful that you are doing well now.

:hug:

It's very nice to read good news. :)

You are right that it's absolutely wrong that two people can end up with disastrously different bills for the same health care. That is just one of the many traps built into our health care system that cause people to fall into severe debt and that keeps insurance companies wealthy as a result. :(

It would be wonderful if we could get insurance companies out of the health care industry all together. There should be no need for them. Health care should be a right. If everyone paid into one pool of money, and that pool was used to fund universal health care, then we wouldn't need to worry about the individual costs for any one person's treatment.

[noiretextatique]

81. thanks ThomCat

i agree: healthcare is a right, not a commodity. single payer is the only way to provide universal coverage. too bad we porbably won't see single payer this term.

[snooper2]

75. There are caps on out-of-pocket expenses with PPO

nt

[noiretextatique]

80. so i might have only been in debt $5k with a PPO

instead of 50K. still zero debt with my HMO, for the same exact care i would have had with the PPO.

[Seldona]

63. Same for me.

My saintly wife really took the, "In sickness and in health" thing to heart. Of course she did take five years off when I ran my own business, but that was just from official 'work.' As she had a baby at home, that doesn't count.

Whatever, without her I would be sick AND homeless. Getting better, and learning to adapt to my new physical reality. But it will still be awhile, and I will never be without pain or be the same again.

It takes a hell of a woman to stick it out through something like that.

[amyrose2712]

74. Hello. Love the avatar!

I am sorry to hear of your health problems. I am so grateful for my bf and mom and sisters. They have helped me more than they will ever know. I also don't own anything. So, I don't have much to lose financially. Many people don't have that luxury. So, Are you going to see NIN/JA on this tour. I am going 6-5. Saw some clips from the first couple of shows. I am very very excited about seeing JA with them too. Love how Trent has embraced the available technology and the changes in the music industry. I hope that he won't be able to stay away. I have seen them 4-5 times in the past couple of years. I will miss them. Hope he writes YZ2. Did you get the Tour Sampler?

[Seldona]

76. That is true about owning things.

Yes, I am going to catch at least one show on this tour. Trying to pull together a group for Bonnaroo, but that isn't panning out very well. Last show in the states, so I think it is going to be something amazing. Aren't they all?

Jane's coming back is the main reason I want to catch at least one show on the tour other than Bonnaroo. No Jane's there as of yet.

Got the tour sampler as well. I love how Trent is forcing the music business to change it's model. Maybe it's time he move on to the business side. I would love to see him make 'Year Zero: The Series.' That might be on the plate in the next couple years.

If I don't catch you around, have a great show!

[aviationpm]

64. I'm close to being in that position...

I'm well educated, was a top performer at work, and was terminated for being gay. People end up in bad places through no fault of their own. And even if it is through something that's their fault, they still deserve a safe place to live no matter what!

[EFerrari]

61. No one is ever homeless by choice.

And yeah, if your crediting rate goes to hell and you lose your home, chances are it will be very hard to get a landlord to rent to you even if you can put the money together.

Sheesh

[Donnachaidh]

39. wrong -- if they are working with kids, a cell phone is a NECESSITY.

Those can be had cheap, and minutes can be bought per month.

[Baby Snooks]

28. Maybe so....

But the amount they pay should be based on what they make less certain expenses like day care. Unless you believe day care is a luxury.

[Donnachaidh]

36. uhh, these people are homeless - probably that *rent* is for a cot

$345 is obscene, when that is what you are paying for.

What SHOULD be happening - the city should be working to FIND her a place to live, which means her own walls, her OWN bathroom, and PRIVACY.

But I'll bet dollars to donuts this mayor hasn't done diddley shit to maintain or create new low-income housing in the city. He wants to turn it into a exclusive haven for his uber-wealthy buddies. The gentrification of areas has pushed working people out.

It's sickening that the city that was built by immigrants now turns a blind eye to the suffering. No wait -- they CHARGE for the suffering -- $345 per month for a cootie-ridden cot in a homeless shelter.

[csziggy]

11. And maybe they are trying to put money aside to get back into a rental

But with first and last month's rent, utility deposits and whatever other expenses involved, it can take thousands just to get into a unit.

[ThomCat]

19. Healthcare for her child! Child care while working.

Those two expenses could easily take up the bulk of her paycheck. Food could take up the rest.

:(

[dgibby]

14. Perhaps she is trying to pay off bills she incurred before she

became homeless, or maybe she became homeless like many others because she had some major medical problem that bankrupted her. No doubt she has to pay for public transportation to get herself and her daughter to work/school. I have no idea what her bills are, but since she's working, it's obvious that she's making the effort to better her circumstances. If she didn't have to pay rent, maybe she could save enough to get out of the shelter eventually. Just a thought.

[AngryOldDem]

16. Medical bills. LOTS of medical bills.

I've also seen credit card bills, and, perhaps the strangest of all, a past-due bill from Avon for unpaid products shipped. I found that one to be the saddest I've seen: Someone trying to better her lot by selling Avon.

Bills follow you from independence into dependence. But medical bills, by far, are the biggest liabilities homeless people have.

[Blue_Tires]

40. uhhh... saving up money to move out??

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

79. Predictable.

I've never seen an anti-poor policy you didn't like.

[konnichi wa]

4. But isn't paying rent for a place to live having a home?

How is it different from someone renting an apartment?
:shrug:

[pnutbutr]

5. NYC

Can you find an apt for $345 a month?

[Raineyb]

7. You can't even get a room for $345 a month. n/t

[AllieB]

29. Or a parking space.

[konnichi wa]

32. So they get a bargain...how does it equate to homeless?

I ain't gettin' it.

[noiretextatique]

34. it doesn't equate at all

you and i both know that even paying as little as $345.00 could be a burden to a person who doesn't make much money. it doesn't matter if it's in NYC or NC.

[konnichi wa]

35. Then they should not be referred to as homeless.

It's an oxymoron.

[Hannah Bell]

53. a homeless shelter is a home? a cot in a common dorm where you're kicked out at 6 am

& not let back in until 4 pm = "home"?

& where you must carry all your belongings with you during the day?

where you're subject to random drug tests, random inspections of your belongings, where you must come in before curfew or sleep on the street, where you can only watch tv or read within specified times, where you must eat whatever you're served at the time you're told to or go hungry, where you will normally be kicked out within 60 days & not allowed back in until another 30 pass, even if still you don't have money, a job or an address?

where you & your kids will sleep head to toe with drug addicts & worse?

steaming crock of crap, yaro.

[ThomCat]

57. A cot in a shelter is not a home

especially when you get kicked out at 6am every morning and have no storage for any personal stuff.

It's just a place to sleep, and nothing more.

Charging people money for using a cot in a shelter is going to be an obstacle to getting off the street.

That will be money they CAN'T put towards a first month's rent and security deposit on a real apartment. You need to have a few thousand dollars saved up to move into a new apartment in NYC.

That will be money they CAN'T put towards the cell phone plan on a phone a prospective employer might call so they can get a good job and get off the street.

That is money the CAN'T put towards buying, maintaining and storing some nice clothing somewhere for job interviews.

Money is very scarce when you are homeless. There are a lot better uses for money if you have it so that it helps you get off the street. Paying for a cot doesn't help you get off the street. :(

[Donnachaidh]

37. are YOU willing to pay $345 a month for the use of a COT?

Bargain my ass. Unbelievably mean-spirited, yuppified bullshit.

[Raineyb]

44. I don't consider paying 345 a month for a cot in a homeless shelter a bargain

This poor woman can't afford an apartment and the city's idea of helping is to take what's left of her money after paying for child care and transportation. The city should be doing more to make housing affordable for all people instead of turing our city into an enclave where the rich live and those who work for a living are forced to live in their vehicles.

They live in a shelter because they're homeless. Asking for rent on top of it is adding insult to injury.

[Donnachaidh]

69. it's an obscenity -- it's NOT a bargain

Bloomberg should be run out on a rail for this. But New Yorkers will look the other way, because he has an in with the financial bigwigs in the city.

Karma. It's due. Long overdue.

[SOS]

13. It's more about driving the poor out of NYC

In 2007 the city barred homeless families from re-applying for shelter, even if their circumstances had worsened.
In 2008 the city barred churches from delivering emergency assistance.
Now they are charging rent for a cot in a dangerous warehouse.

Here's a photo of a NYC resident denied shelter in 2007:

[ThomCat]

31. At some point in the 90s (I forget exactly when)

they prohibited (community activist/volunteers) from distributing food to the homeless. Only food prepared in inspected and certified commercial kitchens could be served to the homeless, as if every meal came from a restaurant.

This drove a lot of volunteer kitchens and missions out of service. They couldn't afford to run like a restaurant.

It also kept a lot of volunteers off the streets because we faced arrest every time we went out to give away free sandwiches. Though, many of us went out and did it anyway and faced arrest.

[SOS]

41. I remember that well

It's a war on the poor.
In this zero sum town, we've got billionaires taking private helicopters to $30 million beach houses, while children die.

Did you know that if you are a single adult, without children, you may no longer even apply for public assistance?

[ThomCat]

55. Unless you have a disability.

I'm a single adult on public assistance.

I worked until I was physically unable to work anymore. I'm now unable to work, sometimes home-bound, partially unable to take care of myself, etc. I'm on public assistance right now temporarily while I wait for my disability benefits to start.

I'm pretty much the text book example of a person who "deserves" public assistance and yet they have given me a constant monthly problems with my public assistance, repeatedly terminating my benefits for various bureaucratic reasons and forcing me into hearings to get them restored.

:(

I've met some very amazingly kind and compassionate people in the system.

But I've also met a number of very cruel, vicious, judgmental people who will arbitrarily do things to stall or derail benefits just because they can. I've dealt with people who will deliberately make "mistakes," and do it obviously so that everyone knows it was deliberate, so that those mistakes put bureaucratic obstacles in your way or cause benefits to be terminated or less than they should be.

Unfortunately, each mean person has more power and influence over your case than dozens of kind people. You will need many of the kind people working together to repeatedly fix the damage caused by just one mean person who put a permanent error in your case. :(

The system is broken. And it has been allowed to be broken because there is a war going on against poor people. You are absolutely right.

[Hannah Bell]

54. That's *exactly* what it's about. Exactly.

[Occulus]

49. Furthermore, if they're asking her to pay rent,

dopesn't that imply certain rights under the law as a renter?

This could easily be a legal nightmare for the city...

[ThomCat]

58. Not if they consider it a "service fee" or figure out some other

legal way of considering it something other than rent.

The city has a lot of ways of screwing people, and homeless people are far more vulnerable than anyone else. :(

[Orsino]

73. Thank you.

The city will find itself losing a chunk of control over residents if they establish a landlord/tenant relationship.

[AngryOldDem]

10. It probably isn't possible under NYC's system, but one answer could be supportive housing.

Supportive housing provides a few years' safety net, which allows most singles and families enough time to become self-sufficient. Supportive housing, at least with the agency for which I work, also provides case management, which further helps to keep people on track to getting permanently housed.

And by the way, as I'm sure you all know, most shelters aren't rolling in dough these days. Many are barely keeping themselves above water. This is a huge bill the city's been stuck with, but instead of Michael Bloomberg shrugging his shoulders and saying, "What can ya do?", he should be looking for alternatives.

The working homeless should NEVER be disincented (disincentivized?) or discouraged from continuing to work to better their situations. EVER.

EDIT: To explain the concept of supportive housing: They are apartment units in neighborhoods where families can live comfortably. They are not extensions of the shelter, other than for case management, and the shelter oversees the property. The shelter/agency is, in effect, the landlord.

[noiretextatique]

22. i work for an agency that provides supportive housing

temporary and permanent. it's a great solution for a growing problem.

[louis-t]

18. My first thought was : "Cheney's in Real Estate Now?"

[Fireweed247]

23. That is absurd!!

:grr:

What is even worse?!! There are more empty houses than homeless people!
It makes no sense. Can't someone come up with a plan to turn these homes into low income(even free) housing. Trillions of dollars given away but they can't do ONE damn thing for We the People to help us out after the mess THEY created!

[Xenotime]

24. How was this allowed to happen in a progressive city like NYC?

[Donnachaidh]

38. Bloomberg.

New Yorkers are extremely schitzophrenic on this a-hole. But as long as *they* can make money while he's mayor, they (obviously) are willing to look away while the weakest among them get beaten to a pulp, with fines and fees, written to drive out the *unworthy*.

[Raineyb]

45. It wasn't any better under Ghouliani either. n/t

[Donnachaidh]

68. so? New Yorkers voted in men who would rid the city of *unworthies*.

What does that say about THEM? They certainly like to tag themselves with the title of *progressives*, but only when their own pockets are filled and the poor are invisible. The city needs a refresher course in what true progressive values are.

[JVS]

67. NYC is a city where a lot of people who have a lot of money exert their power.

[petronius]

25. I understand the thinking, but this seems counterproductive. Although

shelters are probably squeezed like everyone else in this economy, and it seems fair to ask shelter residents with incomes to chip in, I can't see how this wouldn't end up prolonging residents' stays in the shelter. Working homeless are probably the residents who are closest to being able to become self-supporting, and it seems that letting them save up enough for a deposit and an emergency fund would be the best way to help them transition. Or, if you're going to charge them rent, do it in the form of subsidized housing so they can get out of the shelter...

[gmoney]

43. $345 a month will get you a pretty nice apartment in Ohio

Nothing fancy, but a nice studio in a good neighborhood on a bus line. Probably get you a whole house in some parts of town.

Of course, you have to have first and last, pass a credit check, pay for utilities, etc.

I can't understand why people who aren't millionaires stay in NYC.

[Raineyb]

46. My family is here. I was born here. I grew up here

Millions of people who grew up here aren't millionaires. What would you have us do move to cities or states where we have no family?

[gmoney]

48. You can do as you please, of course. I just don't see how you all make it... (eom)

[ThomCat]

59. No family, no way to get there, no knowlege of the other area,

no contacts in any of services in the other area, or even knowledge of what those services are or where they are, etc.

You are right, not having family somewhere is a big reason why people wouldn't pick up and go to another state, but there are a whole lot of other very practical reasons too.

[KillCapitalism]

50. $345 is highway robbery on the homeless.

I could understand the shelter having residents mop the floors, or wash dishes at the shelter in return, or maybe $10 or $15 a month to cover some of the costs, but $345 is totally outrageous.

[ThomCat]

60. Outrageous and counterproductive.

It will drive the most needy people out onto the street. And the people who can afford it and do pay it will be kept homeless longer because they won't be able to save for a real apartment while the shelter is taking all their money. :(

[JVS]

65. If they want to collect rent, they should put the people low income housing.

For a shelter to have both rent-paying working residents and non-paying jobless residents provides a strong incentive for the facility to send the jobless away. This undermines the purpose of the shelter.