Did you have to be taught that torturing animals or people was wrong?

[NNN0LHI]

Or did the notion that torture was some sick shit seem to come naturally to you?

I can't remember ever being taught that torture was a fucked up thing to to to anything or anybody. I knew that without any special instruction. The discussion of torture was usually limited to serial killers and any country that was considered an enemy of America.

What are your memories on this. When did you come to the realization that torture was something limited to some very sick individuals?

Don

[hlthe2b]

1. Empathy comes as a natural deterrent to those who are not

Sociopaths...

[Echo In Light]

3. Empathy is abhorrent to those who choose not to abide their sense of it

[csziggy]

19. You are right! Humans without empathy are missing an essential component

No one ever had to teach me or my sisters not to abuse animals. We all have a lot of empathy for animals and people. In fact, I still feel guilty from when I was two years old and ran over our cat's tail with my tricycle. His tail was broken, Mom got it treated by the vet but when she unwrapped it, the end of the tail fell off. We had a burial ceremony for the end of the tail - I put flowers on the grave for years, first just for the tail and later for the cat when we buried him there, too.

[Rabrrrrrr]

2. Usually in the age 2-3 range is when normal people are able to understand this.

Of course, Republicans, being perpetually stuck at the emotional level of a 2 year old, have yet to understand this.

[depakid]

7. There are plenty of people right here on this site

who, given the appropriate incentive- have no problem whatsoever with torture and disproportionate prison sentences.

And you're right- in terms of moral development, they're stuck at stages usually associated with children and adolescents.

[NeedleCast]

4. I didn't have to be taught, but I think it is a learned behavior

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

5. No, I'm not a sociopath

[AndyA]

6. I was taught to have respect and consideration for other living things.

We usually had pets when I was growing up, mostly cats but we had a dog or two as well.

I think most people are born good. They are taught hate, and how to enjoy seeing another living thing suffer. It's a lifestyle choice they make. And they're the ones saying gay people shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else. Well...if I had to pick out a group to single out as not being equal, it would be the wacko right wingers.

Because they ain't right. They say things that don't make sense. They overlook the obvious and emphasize the idiotic. Let them suffer with second class status. They chose to be this way, after all.

[bobburgster]

14. Agreed....it was more generalized at first... respect and consideration...

and as I was growing and developing my moral compass (the real one, not the republican model) it became more specific....animals, people...physical,emotional and so on.

[JitterbugPerfume]

8. when I was a child

I saw my neighbor butcher a hog , as they joked and laughed about it . I was about six years old but I did not need anyone to tell me that this behavior was sick and that those men were without compassion or soul

I have always believed that anyone who is cruel to so called lower animals can also be cruel to people

[tularetom]

15. Kind of a generalization

I lived with my maternal grandparents while my parents were both serving in WWII. I saw my grandmother butcher many hogs when I was a kid. It's been over 60 years ago but I don't recall that she took any pleasure in it, it was simply what she needed to do so we could eat. Yet I also remember her wailing the crap out of my sister when she caught her pulling the cat's tail.

My grandma used to donate what little spare money she had to the SPCA. I can't in any way think of her as a sociopath.

[JitterbugPerfume]

21. what made them sociopaths

was the obvious glee . I watched granny kill chickens , and grandpa slaughtered animals for food but they did not take pleasure in it


The sick pleasure those men took in it is what I have remembered all of these years I am 68 , so it has been a long long time ago

[Xipe Totec]

9. It's a graduation requirement for kindergarten

[DireStrike]

No.

I feel bad if I accidentally step on an ant.

Once I killed a praying mantis, because I thought it was dangerous. I felt horrible when I learned that it was a harmless creature.

Harming animals to me seems wrong on a very deep level. They're pure innocents. If you have a problem with them, you should remove them, or if you HAVE to kill them, it should be instant and as painless as possible.

I never really thought about torturing people. I assumed it was something that happened in the dark ages that we didn't do anymore. It's not even useful... there's really no reason or excuse for it.

[tridim]

16. Yep, I'll spend 15 minutes catching a spider and putting it outside..

Instead of just smashing it.

One reason I'll never own a gun is that I know I wouldn't be able to pull the trigger if it was pointed at a human, criminal or not.

[louis-t]

10. I'll say it again, you are born with empathy.

I used to believe everyone was born with it, but after 8 years of stupiface and sicko in the WH, I'm starting to believe otherwise.

[uppityperson]

11. about 3 yrs old I was told that kicking anthills was a bad thing to do.

It was fun to have the power over another creature, but I outgrew it quickly as a child

[dgibby]

26. It's a particularly bad thing to do if it's a fire ant hill (and painful, too).!

[mikelgb]

12. there is some learning curve

as a child I would put salt on a snail and watch it die

I would never do that now

[proteus_lives]

13. When I was a pre-schooler

In my first group interactions. There were some kids (boys and girls) who liked to hurt people. I never understood why.

[lunatica]

17. When my siblings and I were very young I remember being taught to be kind to animals

My father was very careful to teach us how to treat our pets. For example, he told us never to tease animals or to try to take their food away and never, ever to shame them or punish them or hit them just to be mean. He taught us that dogs and cats understand language and they don't need to ever be hit. I'm often thankful to have had him actually teach us these things and wish everyone were taught these things.

When my older brother was a 10 or 11 years old he drew a swastika on his arm because he thought it looked cool and when my parents saw it we were treated to a very long history lesson on the Holocaust which we had never heard of. It's strange but I thought everyone knew about the Holocaust because we grew up knowing about it and we aren't Jewish. I've learned much more since, because like the rest of the world I wanted to understand how such a thing could happen. I remember in my 20s realizing that the US had a very strong potential of becoming like Hitler's Germans with just the right mix of leadership/followers, but still believing that it couldn't happen here. But that belief, that it couldn't happen here was because I assumed everyone knew about the Holocaust. But in the 60s racism was loud and ugly and so was jingoism and ignorance seemed to be something people were proud of. It really hasn't changed that much, but as we've seen in the last Administration, it just takes the right (wrong) leadership a frighteningly short time to convince the population to torture and throw people in camps. Sometimes I think we came too close to becoming a fascist state to feel that it would never happen here.

[KittyWampus]

18. Empathy is a function of the Higher Brain. Every human being has to cultivate empathy

We are born with a capacity for empathy. It has to be developed.

And a part of allowing that capacity to flourish is providing safety and security.

Those who are subject to disruption and unsafe conditions while young have a harder time with higher brain functions because their lower brain and its "fight or flight" responses get so much reinforcement.

By the way, many DU'ers will proudly preen themselves in this thread whilst oping how "empthatic" they are but empathy goes a lot deeper than sympathizing with people we deem less fortunate. It's also reaching out to grasp what drives people who would harm others like Bush and Cheney.

[NNN0LHI]

27. Not to hijack my own thread but you said ...

... "It's also reaching out to grasp what drives people who would harm others like Bush and Cheney."

That is another reason I do not believe in the death penalty for even the most heinous crimes. The people who do that kind of thing need to be studied to help find out what made them the way they are.

If we execute them we never know what drove them to do such heinous acts. I want to know the answers to these questions.

Don

[KittyWampus]

29. Don, along with empathy comes a sense of curiosity. What makes sociopaths act that way?

Why do sparks fly when you walk across a rug?
Why do those people over there dress they way they do?
What makes plants grow?

[cali]

20. you were likely taught it

in a myriad of ways. I know I was brought up with certain strong concepts that were repeated and reinforced over and over, within my family. From don't pull the cat's tail, you'll hurt kitty, to treat others as you'd like to treated.

[NNN0LHI]

28. You may be right?

I certainly won't say you are wrong.

But I am sure others have had a similar upbringing as me and who have went on to do some pretty devious things.

Don

[TwilightGardener]

22. I always felt empathy toward animals, especially those who seemed sad, injured, frightened--

I could relate to them, even as a very young child. My two boys, however, have had to be frequently taught to have empathy for animals. No, neither of them are sociopaths, just had to be encouraged to try to imagine how the cat/dog feels when you do THIS or THAT to it, or how a squirrel or bird feels when the kid across the street uses them for BB practice. I think it's often a boy thing (not to sound sexist), and maybe a cultural thing, to lack empathy. I am surrounded by rural type folks who set leg traps for foxes, etc., who swerve to HIT animals in the road rather than swerving to avoid them, who hunt like there's no such thing as supermarkets, who raise livestock and poultry where the ONLY concern for their health and well-being is from a purely economic standpoint.

[noiretextatique]

23. no...i always had a deep connection with animals

so i would never dream of hurting an animal. some of the my fondest childhood memories revolve around the various animals we card for.
rip champ and bandit.

[rateyes]

24. I'm with Gandhi on this one.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
- Mahatma Gandhi

I saw my uncle rip his son a new asshole for trying to break open a shell on a turtle. And, I mean he almost LITERALLY ripped him a new asshole. He NEVER even thought about harming another animal.

[Iggo]

25. People? No.

I totally don't remember, but I bet it's about 50/50 that I needed to be taught to not torture animals when I was a baby.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

30. When I was a little girl

about 4 or 5, I saw a man burying live kittens in a hole while he filled the hole with water.

I god damned knew it was torture and that it was wrong. I ran and got my mother who rescued the poor things and who called the SPCA to report the fucking bastard.

I think the most instruction I received was to be told that animals were to be treated with respect and kindness. This is what I have told my own children -

I haven't had to tell them not to torture their fellow humans because they are not clueless idiots.

[dysfunctional press]

31. it doesn't come 'naturally' to anyone.

we're hunter-gatherers by nature- our instinct is to kill and eat things. 'torture' itself is a concept that we learn/understand in the way in which we are raised.

[imdjh]

33. Maybe, but the first man to eat a crab was awful hungry. Why would he think it was fit to eat? nt

[dysfunctional press]

34. he may have seen birds and other animals do it?

:shrug:

ultimately, it comes down to: he was hungry.

[imdjh]

32. I grew up around hunters, though not in the same house with one

But then we didn't have any problem dropping crustaceans into boiling pots or killing chickens.

Anyway, I do remember thinking that the older boys were cruel for shooting wild birds with their BB rifles. I have never deliberately killed an animal other than a bug, a rat/mouse, chicken or seafood.

[dysfunctional press]

35. rats/mice are higher-order beings than birds...and chickens ARE birds.

why would you feel that killing them is morally superior than killing other birds?

[imdjh]

36. I never said it made sense.

There is the cruelty factor though- you don't kill rats and mice for fun, you kill them because they are destructive pests. You don't kill chickens for sport, you kill them for food. The boys I was referring to would shoot pigeons for fun.

[dysfunctional press]

37. pigeons and chipmunks can be pests as well.

when i was on my uncle's farm many many summers ago, he'd give me a pellet-gun and a .22 and pay me to go kill chipmunks and pigeons on his farm and in his woods. the .22 was mostly for the chipmunks(and pretty much turned them inside-out), because i wasn't allowed to shoot it upwards, as the bullet can carry for a mile or more. the pellet gun was no slouch, either- it was a pump-up crosman model, and could put a .22 lead pellet clean thru a 2X4.

[Gregorian]

38. It's interesting that you'd mention this.

I was working away, and had one of those flashes of inspiration. It was the realization that someone who is caught harming a pet can do jail time. Or rather how odd it is that a group can start an illegal attack against another country, torture and kill innocent people, and seem to get away with it. As if we Americans take animal cruelty more seriously than we do human cruelty. I'm infuriated by what has happened, and what seems to not be happening. Or not happening fast enough. There are people still in those prisons.

My early surroundings were peaceful. However, my father's brother (who is a Republican), tore legs off of spiders as a child. Not unlike Bush.

What a silly topic, that we engage in something so base. Republicans are forcing us into the gutter.

[sam sarrha]

39. Bush organized others to participate in putting firecrackers in frogs butts and blowing them up.. or

was that Iraq.. putting soldiers in defective vehicles and blowing them up..??:shrug: :tinfoilhat: :cry:

[ejpoeta]

40. think about it this way.....

serial killers tend to start by mutilating and harming animals. then they move up to more sinister things. if they don't get caught,they continue indefinitely until they are. these clowns who did this torture.... if they don't stop, it's crazy to think they wouldn't do it again if given the chance. unless they are stopped.

[MrSlayer]

41. Yes. I was torturing the family platypus one day......

Ripping out it's quills, sewing its feet together, dousing it with lye and bleach, all the standards. Then, out of nowhere, Jesus appeared and began to scourge me with a steel tipped whip while shouting random Duran Duran lyrics. It was quite difficult to piece together the lyrical meaning through the pain but I'm sure this was a message that torturing animals is wrong.

[timtom]

42. When I was about seven or eight, I caught a dragonfly.

Out of curiosity, I tore its wings off. I realized what I had done and began crying. I knew I would have to put the poor thing out of its misery.

I've never been cruel to animals since. I love and/or respect animals.

[Cid_B]

43. For all you Heinlein fans

This reminds me of the conversation between Jubal and Duke in regards to cannibalism.

I dont have time to rehash the whole thing but it dealt with taboos being so deeply ingrained into us that we consider them to be instictual.

This post probably only makes sense to my fellow nerds. Oh well.

______________________________________________________________

"I regard our taboo against cannibalism as an excellent idea
... because we are not civilised.'
'Huh?'
'If we didn't have a taboo so strong that you believed it
was instinct, I can think of a long list of people I wouldn't
trust with my back turned, not with the price of beef what
it is today. Eh?'"