I finally had a soldier say the words to me

[shadowknows69]

that he thought his friends have probably died for nothing. How hard do you suppose it has to be for a soldier to come to that realization? Very nice young man I've actually picked up and ranted with a few times. Almost tried to learn his name last night but couldn't bring myself to. Not even sure what this kid is doing in the military as he's basically a pacifist from what I glean from our conversations. He knows, and many of our troops know this is all FUBAR. I gave him the cliff notes on the PNAC. Maybe it will spread.

[havocmom]

1. Such a horrible truth for a young man to face.

But we both know he is not alone in recognizing how the neocons/PNACers used them to turn blood into gold for those that already have much more than enough.

As a people, we have a lot of work ahead, trying to get the truth out and still manage to instill enough hope that our troops and the families of the fallen do not give up on America.

Thanks again, shadow. Love your 'road reports'. You keep your chin up off the ground too, K?

peace & strength, my friend
hm

[Warpy]

2. I had that conversation with disillusioned Vietnam Vets

who came home in the late 60s ane early 70s. My response was that they didn't die for nothing. They and their buddies put their asses on the line to save the world from repressive government, that they fought to protect their buddies and some died for each other, but they didn't die for NOTHING.

The NOTHING was at the top and the criminals who lied them into fighting that war are the ones who died for nothing. Even if they're still walking around, their hearts are dead.

The same can be said for this war, too. Our military won the war, rolling over one of the better armies in that region in weeks. That they were kept there after the stated aim of deposing a dictator is not their crime, and most died to protect their buddies. That isn't NOTHING.

Again, the NOTHING is at the top, and that is where their anger belongs.

[TahitiNut]

3. Yep. I had more than 58,000 'friends' die for nothing.

Even my hopes that We The People learned something seem to be misguided. But who cares? About 1/3rd of those were 'volunteers,' right? Many of them voted for LBJ, right?

I'd love to see a DUer who spouts that kind of imbecilic shit stand at the Vietnam Veterans' Memorial with a sign that says that.

:puke:

[frogcycle]

4. my nephew was a marine captain

at least a year ago - maybe 18 months - he said he had met with friends still on active duty, and to a man they were (privately) unsupportive of the whole c-f

[sutz12]

5. MIlitary people do tend to be realists.

After all, they're the ones eating bullets on the front lines. There is no place for grand illusions in foxholes.

Why do you think Bush keeps firing the generals? It's because sooner or later, the general will interject some reality into the discussion and say something like, "That's not really possible with the resources we have." Like one of our posters have in their sig line, "Lather, Rinse, Repeat." They fired Shinseki because he said they were going in with too few troops. They just fired the current Generals because they said that 20k troops was just increasing the density of targets in the firing line. We're on what....the third or fourth set of commanders here?

Military people constantly fight an internal struggle between their training and desire to follow orders and letting the reality of a FUBAR situation make them stand up and protest. They know that when the shit hits the fan that immediate, unquestioning obedience may be the difference between life and death. But they also learn very quickly which of their superiors really give a shit about them, and which ones are looking for medals polished with their sweat and blood.

When you literally put your life on the line, and you're good enough and lucky enough to survive, your bullshit detector tends to get really, really accurate. It may take them a while sometimes, because of their training and instincts, but they will invariably come to know truth.

[bluerum]

6. I love your cabbie threads. Keep 'em coming. eom

[Hekate]

7. I hope you tell them we are trying to get them home

Take care of yourself, Shadow. And thanks for the bulletins.

Hekate

[shadowknows69]

8. Always do Hekate

to the ones I think need to hear it

[ellisonz]

9. A relevant quotation:

“And who are the young men we are asking to go into action against such solid odds. You’ve met them. You know. They are the best we have. But they are not McNamara’s sons, or Bundy’s. I doubt they’re yours. And they know they’re at the end of the pipeline. That no one cares. They Know” -- (an anonymous general to correspondent Arthur Hadley).

[tabasco]

10. As long as he did his best job to keep his buddies and civilians alive

& well then he should not feel bad at all.

Soldiers who do not conduct themselves like this in a combat zone often suffer from years of guilt.

[Kurovski]

11. K&R. Today is about putting an end to our troops being misused and abused.

[leftchick]

12. where in the hell

do the M$M dig up military wives that say we need to support their husbands and understand how they are protecting us, like I saw on NBC today? They must have to search pretty hard for them. She was from Ft. Bragg BTW.