WTF?-Boy Scouts Training to "Confront Terrorism, Illegal Immigration & Escalating Border Violence"

[kpete]

Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More



IMPERIAL, Calif. — Ten minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.

The responding officers — eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 — face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots — BAM! BAM! — fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.

“United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!” screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued.

.................

The Explorers program, a coeducational affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence — an intense ratcheting up of one of the group’s longtime missions to prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters.

more at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=2&hp

[matt819]

1. Hitler Youth - Right here in the good old USA

Kpete - Thanks for picking this up. I was about to post when I saw you got it here first.

Is anyone else reminded of Hitler Youth? Read what some of these kids have to say about what they do. Or just read about what they're doing. And then tell me that this isn't shocking.

[liberalmuse]

5. That was the first thought that popped into my head.

Then I saw your post. This is definitely shocking.

[Echo In Light]

28. Let's put on military costumes and pretend we're BAD ASS!!!

[northernlights]

36. first thing that came to mind, too

shocking, disgusting, frightening. I'm sooo glad I don't have kids. :(

[OneBlueSky]

43. exactly my thought when I saw that photo . . .

shouldn't Boy Scouts be working on things like protecting the environment or feeding the hungry or mentoring younger kids? . . . this militarization of every part of our society is a very dangerous trend, and one that should be nipped in the bud . . .

before we know it, every city and town will have their own private mercenary police force that answers to their employers' stockholders rather than to elected representatives of the people . . . it's the Blackwatering of America, and it's very scary . . .

[LooseWilly]

61. You sound like my Libertarian high school Econ teacher.

I think you've just enumerated the Ron Paul platform... and some are beginning to suspect that that's the direction in which the Republican Party will soon be heading...

First they ban gay scoutmasters... then they take up arms against the brown people... American Values, or so they'd like to tell us.

[onehandle]

2. Being discussed here ------>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3876593

[abq e streeter]

3. JUst had finished this in the Times on-line and had same reaction--Zeig Heil baby

[snooper2]

4. I don't have a problem with this...

least they are hanging out at 7-11 with their pants halfway down their ass...

[Buzz Clik]

7. For sure. Which is worse -- lazy kids or kids training to be assassins?

[snooper2]

19. Oh come on-

trained assassins- little overboard there-

[Buzz Clik]

25. Really? Bullet-proof vests? Simulated assault rifles? What do you think they're training for?

If they were simply training for border patrol, they would need only a pair of binoculars and a walkie talkie.

[Jester Messiah]

32. Yes, assassins are at least subtle.

This is more your "jackbooted thug" variety of indoctrination. Get 'em while they're young...

[Kolesar]

20. Good one

:thumbsup:

[Buzz Clik]

6. Sweet jeebus!

[leveymg]

8. "Paperzz, pleazzzz."

Now, pazz zee poizzen gazz pelletzzz . . .

[TankLV]

9. Ahhh - fucking Nazi wannabes...

ready for the "armchair video warriers" the military is promoting now...

sickening...

[msongs]

10. onward christian soldiers nt

[Echo In Light]

23. .

[polmaven]

11. My only comment is...

well....:scared:

[Joe Chi Minh]

12. Oh, gosh, they're not training them to take on the CIA, are they? Your own

home-grown suicide bombers?

[Jester Messiah]

34. About what I'd expect from the talebangelicals... [nt]

[bluescribbler]

13. No surprise here

When the Boy Scouts of America were founded, they were intended to be some sort of paramilitary or junior militia organization. They're just returning to their roots.

[knitter4democracy]

14. It all depends on the pack leader.

Our pack leaders are so out of it that there's no way they could organize anything like that, and I know our den leader would never go for that (he's a liberal).

Somehow, though, I'm not surprised.

[Canuckistanian]

15. Naturally, I assume they're getting RIGOROUS legal training as well

After all, the implications of prisoner arrest, use of deadly force, international treaties and diplomatic relations are CRUCIAL to any law enforcer.

Shooting guns at strangers is easy.

[aikoaiko]

16. In some ways, this is a return to the original purpose of Boy Scouts.

Military and LEO skills have always been a part of Scouts, but this is definitely a new extension of an old tradition.

http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/sha/origins.htm

As a hero his patronage was sought for a number of Boy's organisations; In 1900 he lent his name to the Baden-Powell League of Health and Manliness. In 1901 more 'B-P' organisations existed; The B-P Boys of Greenock, the B-P Brigade and the B-P Anti-Cigarette League #10. In 1903 he became Honorary Colonel of the Southport Cadets #11. Of interest to the beginnings of the Scout Movement is the fact that in May 1903 he accepted an invitation to become a Vice-President of the Boys Brigade #12, after he had chaired the annual demonstration at the Albert Hall. B-P was invited to review the Boys Brigade a year later at Glasgow and at Liverpool and was impressed with the numbers in the Boys Brigade (then 54,000) but felt that with a more varied programme within 20 years the number could be ten fold #13.

William Smith challenged B-P to prepare material along the lines of his popular military handbook of 1900, 'Aids to Scouting'. Apart from a report published in the Boys Brigade Gazette in June 1904 advocating the character forming qualities of scout training, nothing emerged in terms of a Boys Brigade scouting programme in that year, but invited by Dr Edmond Warre, Headmaster of Eton College, Baden-Powell gave a lecture on 'Soldiering' 24th November 1904 to an audience of Boys intending to make the army their career #14. This was followed up by a letter published in the Eton College Chronicle on the 22nd December 1904 concerning a training scheme for Boys. Baden-Powell suggested that during the Christmas holiday each of the Eton Volunteers should bring together a small squad in their town or Village, read to them books about the Knights, and teach them:-
(1) How to aim and shoot miniature rifles; (2) How to judge distance; (3) How to Scout; (4) How to drill and skirmish, take cover etc.

Members of the squad were to sign a paper containing the following:-
(1) To fear God (2) Honour the King (3) Help the weak and distressed (4) Reverence women and be kind to children; (5) Train themselves to the use of arms for defence of their country (6) sacrifice themselves, their amusements, their property, and, if necessary, their lives for the good of their fellow-countrymen. A promise was to be made; I promise on my honour, to be loyal to the King and to back up my commander in carrying out our duty in each of the above particulars. (Each member will sign his name in the space below this.)

Baden-Powell further pointed out in the letter "If two hundred volunteers carried out this idea and each trained ten boys this Christmas, we should have 2,000 retainers trained and ready to defend their country...........I shall be very glad to hear from any boy who succeeds in getting together a squad as I should like to keep a register of these. And I would gladly come and inspect the one which attains the highest strength this winter" #15

[Joe Chi Minh]

21. Deleted. Mistaken.

[aikoaiko]

22. We don't torture anymore.

;)

[Joe Chi Minh]

29. Thank you for that. It's great news. I'll delete it.

[Joe Chi Minh]

49. But, it's just occurred to me: What about the School of the Americas?

Are they still brazening that out?

[AnotherMother4Peace]

17. And right near by in Vista, CA the school board is proposing to declare a Carrie Prejean day

[Buzz Clik]

27. Cool. Send your kid to school that day with a fake lobotomy scar.

[rvablue]

55. Please tell me this is a joke....

They do realize that she has topless photos circulating on the internet, right?

One would think that these same ignoramuses would be gathering to fire a teacher if the same types of photos turned up on the web.

The hypocrisy of these morans is mind-boggling....

[AnotherMother4Peace]

59. This was on the local TV news this AM & knowing the Vista School Board, I'm sure it's true.

[Mendocino]

18. Blackwater -Jr. Division

It's going be hard to be happy with a beekeeping merit badge once you've tasted blood.

[Wednesdays]

24. Why should anybody be surprised?

The whole purpose of the Boy Scouts now is to recruit soldiers as early as possible.

I was a scout, back during the time when scouting was often seen as not much more than a "boy's camping club." I understood that the Boy Scouts were first organized in Britain and the USA on the eve of World War I, as a sort of military "pre-training." But by the time I signed up, emphasis on military-related issues had dropped off considerably. I earned merit badges in photography, music, cooking, and astronomy...and none of the leaders batted an eyelash about it. In spite of the rules saying Boy Scouts having to be "reverent," we had open discussions about religion, in which many of us openly questioned the existence of God. There were a few "hawkish" types among us, but to suggest that any of us would carry a weapon and actually shoot people would have been unthinkable. We didn't even play paintball "war games" (that came much later)...the closest we came to any war games was playing "Steal the Bacon."

Things are so different now. I retired from them just as the BSA was starting to really return to being a paramilitary outfit in the mid-1970s, probably as part of the wingnut backlash that was starting to take form at the time. They were starting to change the uniforms to the Vietnam "green beret" look (even though the scout berets were red).

It's gotten steadily right-wing since then, so much so that if I had a son I would never consider letting him join the Boy Scouts. My daughter briefly considered joining the Girl Scouts, and even there I had reservations.

After having so much fun during my time with them, sad to say I wouldn't care if the organization just died out. :(

[CRK7376]

53. This is frustrating....copied from my Latest posting

As a life-long Democrat, gun-owning, Eagle Scout, military officer and life-long member of the BSA, I have concerns with this particular Explorer Post. This one particular Explorer Post in California does not reflect what BSA or most Explorer Posts do nation-wide. Each Post is sponsored by an outside organization that the kids are interested in, many are career or specific subject oriented, and others are High Adventure encompassing hiking, climbing, white water adventures…. Stuff like that. As a youth member of several BSA Explorer Posts, I had a great time being part of a Co-Ed organization that went into depth on topics I was interested in. I participated in a Medical Explorer Post, a Native American Post and a High Adventure Post. Great fun, good leadership and adult role models who shaped me into the adult I am today…..

My local council currently has a couple of Police/Sherriff Explorer Posts. Nothing wrong with that and it does help kids find out about that particular organization in depth. Where the California Post seems to go over the top for me is with what appears to be an extreme exposure/focus on the tactical side of Law/Border Patrol Enforcement. Yes, that’s part of Law Enforcement, but it should not be the primary focus. Going to a shooting range, ok for one or two weekends over the course of a year. Learning about gun safety/marksmanship is ok, but should not be the primary focus. Teaching kids to conduct hostage rescues, room clearing stacks, takedowns etc…is over the top in my books. I would not want my children or their friends involved in this type of activity. Could they visit a police/law enforcement range and watch police rehearse their actions…sure, but only watching, not actually participating.
BSA is not a paramilitary, Hitler-Youth, or gun crazed bunch of rabid yokels. Do some units and leaders go overboard? Absolutely, and this crowd in Southern California seems to be one of them. By and large most BSA Explorer Posts are for young adults that teach/expose the kids to career options and offer a safe, controlled environment for learning or experiencing possibilities. I don’t support or condone this particular BSA Explorer Post in California that was written about, but I do support BSA and Explorer Posts otherwise.

[clear eye]

60. How 'bout giving us a little more detail on what other things they could be learning

about law enforcement or border patrol, than the shooting at people part. I know this sounds silly, but if someone from that area is reading, they might be able to get the leaders a little more grounded by giving them an alternative curriculum.

[soothsayer]

26. gawd bless the little brown shirts. Soon they'll be turning in their parents.

[rockymountaindem]

30. That seems a little extreme for kids that age

There's got to be a difference between promoting interest in law enforcement and having adolescents engage in mock police raids.

[FourScore]

31. And how is this different from the Hitler Youth program? n/t

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Doremus]

35. There was none of this nonsense in our troop 10 years ago.

But then we didn't have any foaming mouth breathers in leadership either.

I was pack leader. We had recycling drives and cleaned the high school stadium after football games. Our boys went camping and earned badges for model rocketry and other interesting hobbies. The closest we got to militarism was learning to march in a straight line for the Memorial Day parade.

A fanatical few will always exist in every endeavor. This pack should have its charter revoked until they boot out the freaks.

[brendan120678]

37. This is an Explorer Post...not a Scout Troop.

Yes, the Explorers are organized within the BSA, but they are slightly different. They exist to allow young men and women to explore areas of interest to them. I was involved in a few Explorer Posts as a Boy Scout. One was an Indian Dance & Enthusiasts group, one was a group for people interested in studying Law (sort of a Mock Trial group), and one was a Law Enforcement explorer post (similar to this one, I guess - only without the "SWAT-like" feel to it. We were trained in the use of firearms and such, and went through Police Academy-like training, but the only real "work" that we did was as auxiliary police - directing traffic during events, etc).

[nichomachus]

38. THis is really nothing new -- the military has been infiltrating middle and high schools for years

Has anyone heard of the "Young Marines?" They take kids as young as 8. The schools that sponsor these things have Marine instructors on duty in the schools -- these are public schools -- and they drill and train, go to summer camp, and wear uniforms.

I first became aware of this when I went to a local parade (totally by accident). The next thing I knew, there were these platoons of little kids marching by with their military haircuts, in camo fatigues, pants bloused into jump boots, black berets. And not just one group. There were several. I thought I was in Germany in the '30s.

[X_Digger]

42. What's wrong with JROTC / YM like programs?

What part of it do you have a problem with? After all, we are all part of the unorganized militia according to the 1903 militia act that established the national guard. The boy scouts have been teaching firearm safety and marksmanship as long as they've been around.

[nichomachus]

46. All of it -- every single bit of it -- the whole freaking thing

We should not be teaching 8-year-old kids to be junior soldiers. Period.

This has nothing to do with "gun safety" and "marksmanship." THat is a totally bullshit excuse.

[X_Digger]

50. How about discipline and physical fitness?

If obesity is such an issue with today's kids, then how does providing kids with the skills to maintain physical fitness and the discipline to do so harm them?

This isn't a military school that parents force their kids to attend- this is a voluntary program.

Is it teaching 8 year olds to wear a uniform that you don't like, teaching them to march, or teaching them not to despise the military that you really have a problem with?

[nichomachus]

51. Come on

You can teach a kid discipline and physical fitness without turning him or her into Rambo. And this is going way beyond teaching them "not to despise the military."

We should not have military drill instructors in our middle schools. Period.

Any more than we should be teaching young girls to be pole dancers -- after all it is a lucrative career option, so maybe we should prepare them for it early.

[X_Digger]

52. Come on yourself..

you really haven't said what you don't like..

And are you seriously equating military service with strippers? Really? That might explain more about your mindset than anything you've posted in this thread so far.

[Zodiak]

39. I was an Eagle Scout

Got my award in 1985.

I do not even recognize the Scouts any more. Bigotry has replaced brotherhood (the Scouts are homophobic), and apparently guns have replaced hatchets and whittling knives.

I wonder if the Scouts have a Totin' Chip for those assault pellet guns.

[nichomachus]

44. A lot has changed simce the Mormons took over the Boy Scouts n/t

[johnfunk]

40. Little Eichmanns. How charming...

'Nuff said.

[Bluenorthwest]

41. The 'California ain't what it used to be' story of the day

Good old liberal California!

[LooseWilly]

62. Ohh... we gots our rednecks here in CA.... we gots 'em aplenty...

[MagickMuffin]

45. Adding more warriors for the War on (Certain) Drugs

The training, which leaders say is not intended to be applied outside the simulated Explorer setting, can involve chasing down illegal border crossers as well as more dangerous situations that include facing down terrorists and taking out “active shooters,” like those who bring gunfire and death to college campuses. In a simulation here of a raid on a marijuana field, several Explorers were instructed on how to quiet an obstreperous lookout.

“Put him on his face and put a knee in his back,” a Border Patrol agent explained. “I guarantee that he’ll shut up.”

Just as there are soccer moms, there are Explorers dads, who attend the competitions, man the hamburger grill and donate their land for the simulated marijuana field raids. In their training, the would-be law-enforcement officers do not mess around, as revealed at a recent competition on the state fairgrounds here, where a Ferris wheel sat next to the police cars set up for a felony investigation.

In a competition in Arizona that he did not oversee, Deputy Lowenthal said, one role-player wore traditional Arab dress. “If we’re looking at 9/11 and what a Middle Eastern terrorist would be like,” he said, “then maybe your role-player would look like that. I don’t know, would you call that politically incorrect?”



They are training these kids to be bigots and racially profiling people. :cry:

[nichomachus]

47. Two words: Mission creep

The mission creep from this crap is going to be horrible,

[pink-o]

48. Well, it shouldn't be any surprise...

...in the 90s, they officially refused to allow anyone gay into their organization (but what could be more hertero than a bunch of men in khaki shorts and jewelry...er, I mean merit buttons?) Then, a couple days ago the SF chronicle reported that the scouts are closing ranks to anyone overweight! IOW, the kids who need to get out hiking and camping and doing physical exercise are now banned from scouting!

Now with this, it seems their goal is clear. A little RW paramilitary force. Keep kids ignorant and brainwash 'em young.

Someone should start an organization for youngsters that really helps the environment and disadvantaged citizens!

[old mark]

54. Sounds like a great way to get a few scouts killed. This is remarkably stupid

even for California.

mark

[krabigirl]

56. It sounds like fiction, but it's not. This is truly frightening.

:(

[paulsby]

57. they are explorers

and the youngest is 14 (one post in this thread referred to much younger kids).

i am a LEO . i work with explorers all the time. they ride in our police cars sometimes, and they ARE paramilitary, just like the police are paramilitary - uniforms, rank structure, etc.

i'm not involved in their training, but i'm pretty sure they do practice raid scenarios, car stop scenarios, etc.

[dembotoz]

58. spent a lot of time in boy scouts, had kids go thru cub scouts

When i was a kid my scout troup was sponsored by the local nike site (Milwaukee Army air defenes)
ground to air missles and such--a different kind of swoosh). For a while, our troop leader was the local cornel. It was a class act from top to bottom and i owe them lots....
And lord knows-no one has ever mistaken me for a brown shirt.

After boy scouts i went on to explorers- specailized in archery. I was always the very worst shot.
Oh well. The explorer post was run by in retropect-some very conservative men, and yet politics never seemed to seap into what we did.

a few years back, i again was involved with scouting as a parent. About 10 years ago my oldest was in a local boy scout troup for a while that was sponsored by the local american legion post. Again
i have nothing but the highest respect for the leader they had then. My son gave up scouting to
concentrate on soccer-which i was sad about at the time.

My youngest graduated from cub scouts bout a year back. His experience was different.
He had NO desire to go onto boy scouts and i did not push at all. It just was not very good.

in summary
scouting is like a lump of clay. The form it takes depends entirely on the ledership.

[Amaya]

63. america is really a fucked up country

:wtf: