Is it safe to assume that if Obama won't release the photos they are a lot worse than we imagined?

[NNN0LHI]

Poll question: Is it safe to assume that if Obama won't release the photos they are a lot worse than we imagined?

And there are pictures of Americans doing some pretty sick things to Iraqis and Afghans included in those thousands of photos who have never been prosecuted for anything?

Wouldn't these kind of be safe bets?

Because the reasons we have been given for not releasing the photos so far were designed to convince imbeciles.

[undeterred]

1. We gave him the authority to make this decision

and he's got way better judgment then most people in public office. I'm sure the photos are horrible and he is imagining US servicemen/women being on the receiving end of that treatment.

[leftofthedial]

53. We also gave king george the authority to make decisions for eight years.

That didn't make him right.

[Hippo_Tron]

75. Not really, five justices on the Supreme Court gave him the authority

[EFerrari]

81. No we didn't. He has no authority legal or otherwise to censor.

:wtf:

It's scary to read people saying this. He is the president. He is not our Official Information Filter.

[leftofthedial]

2. I don't know, but it's now an even safer bet that Obama himself is a lot worse

than we imagined.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftofthedial]

10. stop putting words in my mouth.

[cali]

14. lol.

you do little else but demonize Obama. it's your raison d'etre here. And that is not an exaggeration.

[KittyWampus]

11. Some DU'ers forget- it was BUSH/CHENEY who tortured. THEY caused the photos to happen

THEY are the ones who caused such an inflammation of sentiment in the Middle East.

THEY are the ones who endangered our troops by ordering torture.

[leftofthedial]

13. And Obama is the one doing everything in his power to ensure they get away with it.

[cali]

15. and that's why he released the torture memos

to aid and abet. logic completely eludes you, dear.

[leftofthedial]

17. he released memos because they would have leaked anyway

and because it was the least he could do.

[cali]

22. bwahahahaha.

lamer and lamer. your hate of Obama is consuming your brain cells at a rapid rate. And, yeah, you really have made it obvious that you hate him. You know, there are actually sites where your kind of "thinking" is appreciated to a greater degree.

[Buzz Clik]

25. Lame.

They would have been released anyway? Like Bush released the Reagan and Bush 41 documents?

Your despise for Obama oozes from your pores.

[leftofthedial]

32. I said "leaked," not "released."

I like Obama. I just don't trust him anymore.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. You like Obama?

In a thread yesterday you called him a war criminal.

Flip flopping on war crimes?

[Buzz Clik]

42. Some of my best friends are ...

... war criminals. :eyes:

[leftofthedial]

44. There you go making shit up again.

In a thread yesterday, YOU said I called him a war criminal. See the difference? Maybe if you played with colored children's blocks for an hour or two everyday, we could correct some of your cognitive deficiencies.

Now be a good boy and play quietly so Mama can get some work done.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. You realize that information on computers gets saved, right?

You call him a war criminal here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8405610#8405638

[leftofthedial]

50. I can see your problems are worse than we thought. We'll also have to work

on your reading and comprehension.

I said he is obstructing and helping to cover up war crimes. I'm worried that his actions may lead future investigations, tribunals, courts or what have you to seriously question his role in the entire matter. I also worry that his actions seem to be lining up with the actions of bush and cheney vis a vis covering up their crimes.

Also, unlike you, I refused yesterday to appoint myself judge and jury. That's not how the rule of law works.


Maybe you should stick to sites that have more pictures and music and fewer big words.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. You said he's a co-conspirator in covering war crimes.

If my buddy murders a prostitute, and I help him hide the body, I, as a conspirator, would also be guilty of murdering that prostitute. That's how the rule of law works.

Ergo, you alledged that Obama was a war criminal.

Funny how you chickened out of saying what punishment you think he deserved.

[leftofthedial]

57. IF you are tried and convicted.

Neither of those steps you find so easy to ignore has taken place here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. If you can hypothesize a trial and a verdict...

why not a sentencing?

[leftofthedial]

67. I have stated my opinion. He is obstructing the truth and helping to cover up war crimes.

Nothing in that includes a hypothetical anything.

Law has its own sentencing requirements. In the Nurnberg War Crimes Tribunals, for example, sentences ranged from a few years in prison to life imprisonment to death, depending on the person's role and the nature of their crimes. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the range of sentences is dependent on which court is imposing sentence as well.

Why don't you tell us what you think about war crimes? You obviously believe criticizing Obama is a much more serious offense than raping, torturing and murdering or helping rapists, torturers and murderers get away with their crimes. Let's hear it big shot. Tell us something that matters.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Yes, we know you think he's a war criminal.

But you still can't come up with what you think his punishment should be.

[leftofthedial]

69. you know no such thing.

you're a coward.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. You've stated it twice in two different threads.

"you're a coward."

I'm not the one who's too afraid to either shit or get off the pot.

[DS1]

31. You're pathetic.

[leftofthedial]

34. and you're drooling again.

[Buzz Clik]

21. Have you considered changing parties? Seriously. You need to rethink your political landscape.

[cali]

23. green, green, green, green

Cynthia McKinney, great progressive leader party is perfect for some here.

[leftofthedial]

35. Why don't you leave DU.

I think you're exhausting yourself emotionally just by being here.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. Why don't you?

You contribute nothing.

[leftofthedial]

45. The number of Recs on my threads, my number of posts,

and my over-eight-year history here indicate otherwise.

More kool aid?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. Your number of posts and length of time here prove your value?

Nonsense.

It proves something about you, but not your value.

[leftofthedial]

51. you said nothing about value, which is subjective.

You said that I "contribute nothing."

And you ignore the issue of recs, including recs on the recent threads in which YOU have contributed nothing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. The recommendations to your threads are also worthless.

And so are the people who recommend them.

[leftofthedial]

56. How did someone like you ever even find DU?

:rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. How did you?

More importantly, why do you even bother?

[Echo In Light]

58. As much as I can disagree w/some here, I don't accuse them of being "worthless."

Get over yourself

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. Your post was better when it just said "fuck you."

Still worthless though.

[Echo In Light]

64. It was terse and to the point, but needed something more

As for "worthless," keep that apt description in mind when after four yrs you're looking back at all the "change" from the fairytales you foolishly buy into.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. I'm looking forward to it.

Obama's already accomplished more in the last four months than your guy did in the last 8 years.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. Obama issued pardons?

Because that's within his power, you know.

He is president, after all. No matter how much that pisses you off.

[leftofthedial]

47. He's not a power monger. He's a politician.

It is not within his political power at this juncture.

Although the trajectory he seems to be on with regard to bush cabal war crimes could very well lead to pardons.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. Grasping at straws now?

Is that the best you can do?

[leftofthedial]

52. now you're being silly.

Although I suppose you were just silly all along.

[Coyote_Bandit]

12. He's pretty much

been what I expected. I voted for him because he was the lesser of two evils. But I would have preferred a different Dem candidate. He may have been selling hope - but I never believed he would do anything of any substance to improve my life. Hasn't happened yet and I still don't expect him to deliver anything for me.

[Buzz Clik]

20. Worse than YOU imagined? Impossible.

You should have changed your nick.

[leftofthedial]

37. You should open up a stand

and dispense worthless advice. You can set up pay pal for free.

[Buzz Clik]

43. You've been called on your rank bullshit. Get over it.

[TankLV]

30. We shall see - but at this moment in time, it looks like you're correct...

I pray that you're not, but this is - what - about a half dozen MAJOR decisions that he has made now that are just plain WRONG...

But he has surprised us in the past, so I'm still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one, too - but my well of good will and trust is being sorely tapped and the funds are about to go bankrupt...

[leftofthedial]

41. In a sense, we all have to give him the benefit of the doubt,

at least until 2012. But he is wrong on the Middle East (breaking a promise), wrong on the banking giveaway (breaking his promise to demand accountability), wrong on illegal wiretapping (breaking his promises to end the practice and to hold criminals accountable), wrong on torture (breaking promises not only about accountability, but also about transparency) and wrong on health care (breaking promises again).

Seriously, there have been so many outrageous decisions already, I think I left a few out. It's only been 110-ish days. You have more patience than I. I do not trust him. I'm an old baseball player. He's already past three strikes.

[Jennicut]

40. Hmmmm

leftofthedial I have disagreed with you on some things, agreed with you on others but I don't think that is true at all.
Obama is pretty much what I expected him to be, a pragmatic middle of the road liberal.

[leftofthedial]

62. He's been pretty much what I expected on some issues--

health care and the economy. I don't agree with him at all, but he's been pretty much what he always was.

On the US military intervention in the Middle East, on civil liberties and on war crimes, he's been rhetorically opposed to torture, but in every other way almost exactly aligned with the bush regime, which I did not expect.

[lamp_shade]

3. No... I don't believe they are worse than some imagined.

[zipplewrath]

4. Maybe than he did

I already imagine they are pretty bad, sick, and twisted. They may be worse than HE imagined.

[Buzz Clik]

6. What's really obvious is that most of the reactions by DUers are the result of non-thinking.

This board needs a clue. Desperately.

[cali]

16. there's a poweful amount of teh stupid here

[Bluerthanblue]

7. no- not unless you can only think in a very narrow

paradigm.

You might want to consider the impact that photographic images have on people. People look at a photo and attach their own personal meanings into the mix.
It takes effort to read and digest memo's- The ugly truth about the worst of what was done isn't going to be captured by the cameras lens- you can't capture the fact that the last administration twisted arms, words and logic to support doing things to other human beings and labeling it "enhanced interrogation" in a photo. You can capture the actual technique, but not the malicious, self-serving misuse of power and position that bush and his crew are guilty of.

Safe bets often aren't worth much.

The memos are the meat- they have been exposed. Why don't we put all this 'outrage' energy into pushing for prosecution?

Something constructive for a change?

[NNN0LHI]

8. I hit a nerve didn't I?

Interesting.

Don

[Bluerthanblue]

18. no- you

are simply one of many who are using this as yet another chance to display your 'righteous' 'progressive' superiority.

You use your poll to disguise what is nothing more than another chance to say - "see Obama is just an empty suit".

Nothing interesting in any of this crap on DU- nothing new either. It's been going on for years.

What frustrates me, is that I thought there were some real differences between the foolishness of repubs, and those of Dems- what I'm having to accept is that 'we' are simply a different flavor of some pretty bitter fruit.

blu~

[Buzz Clik]

24. Kinda sad, isn't it?

[Buzz Clik]

19. "Something constructive for a change?" Not around here.

People here think that because they spend their lives watching talk shows on tv and criticizing them here that they somehow have great insight and knowledge into the world of politics. Most of the posters here seldom think for more than 10 seconds before they start typing.

Unfortunately, the world is far more complicated than that.

[Fumesucker]

73. Why do you paint everyone else with your own brush?

Clearly you are projecting, I for one don't watch TV at all, so your projection is incorrect. If I do see TV it's Cartoon Channel or Boomerang way more than anything else, I honestly can't remember the last time I saw any news channel unless you count the Weather Channel.

[DS1]

9. Could it be possible that not releasing them allows them to be used as evidence in a court of law?

Just an idea. It's not like he's a law professor or anything.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. Gibbs alluded to that in the press confrence yesterday-

but who was listening?

It's much more fun, and satisfying to jump on the outrage wagon.

:shrug:

The pictures aren't going to make the case for prosecuting the bush crew- the memos are. The photos could be helpful perhaps, but it's the memos that matter, and they are already out here.

:hi:

[DS1]

27. Thanks

Nice to know I'm not the only one.

[EFerrari]

79. Are you a lawyer today? The public record is not excluded from evidence. n/t

[Buzz Clik]

28. Considering the slapdown that the Bush administration received over the same suppression of photos..

... we can pretty well assume that Obama could be using this as a mechanism to access the courts to "force" him to release ALL documents and photos. Same result, no political baggage.

But, that's a bit subtle for your average DUer.

[redqueen]

72. Yep.

I would have preferred that he'd released them.

But that would be a perfectly valid reason for him to reverse his position.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Nahhh. They're not being released to protect the troops being sent to AfPak to be killed.

The Afghans would be upset and angry if they knew that the military now killing their people also tortured Iraqis.

I'm sure that the bosses in Washington and the Pentagon know more than we mere people, (of course the reason they "know" more is that they only feed us bullshit), and are of a wiser and more noble character than the common herd and the troublemakers who question their wisdom and benevolence.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

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Donate and you'll be automatically entered into our daily contest.
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[Buzz Clik]

74. Deleted

[backscatter712]

63. From what I hear, children were sodomized in front of their parents in some of these photos.

The rumors are already flying fast and furious, and Seymour Hersh has said that this is exactly what has happened.

Hopefully, the ACLU prevails and the .gov is required to release these photos. For all the side-effects, the truth must come out, so justice may come to Bush, Cheney and their cronies for ordering these atrocities.

[KansDem]

71. Hear, Hear!!!

It's bad enough letting these child molesters go. If anybody objects to trying and imprisoning them, then ask them if they really want these monsters living next door to them.

If they aren't in prison, then they could be in our neighborhoods!

[Buzz Clik]

76. Who wouldn't want to see that!!!111 I mean, sodomized kids!

You know, you can be arrested for even looking at pictures like that, right?

Why the hell would you want them released to the public?

[Geek_Girl]

77. Because most Americans are unaware or do not believe this happened

People have got to know what are government has done in our name. And maybe there will be a major outcry to put these war criminals behind bars!

[Buzz Clik]

80. We believe it.

[KansDem]

65. I tend to believe that all the really bad photos have been destroyed by now

I mean, they've had--what?--several years to sort through them? Why would they keep the most vile photos on hand in case something like this might happen?

Besides, didn't the CIA destroy several video tapes recently? Wonder what was on them...

[spoony]

78. That might be a reasonable bet, if Obama hadn't said

that they "are not particularly sensational, especially when compared to the painful images that we remember from Abu Ghraib."

So either you're right and he's lying, or he's right and has no reason not to release them. Neither is particularly appealing.

[EFerrari]

82. He also said that it was just a few people who have also been held to account.

I'll have to run to that other forum to get the exact quote but that's what he said and it happens to be not true.

[Mari333]

83. the people of Germany didnt want to see the photos of the concentration camps either

but they were shown. and shamed. and changed.
I cannot believe how many people on here remind me of the German people with their heads in the sand.
The public needs to see them, to see what is done on our dime.
My Lai needed to be seen.
Auschwitz needed to be seen.
Bergen Belsen needed to be seen.
these need to be seen.
yes, our country committed horrendous atrocities.
yes, we need to see them . otherwise we are no better then the Nazis covering up their atrocities.

[Mike 03]

84. Based on the prior statements of people who are in a position to know such matters,

I voted that the materials are significantly worse than we have been told to expect.

[DutchLiberal]

85. Based on the twisted atrocities we have heard about in the past (60) years: YES.