Wow. Nancy's got balls of steel. She flatly and unequivocally accused the Director of the CIA

[cherokeeprogressive]

of lying. I hope this doesn't come back to bite her in the ass, or worse. I'd be wary of ever saying that on what amounts to the world stage. That takes guts. I don't think I'd be brave enough to ever do that.

What follows is the product of nearly an hour of pausing and rewinding my TIVO to get the transcript right. Now I know why medical transcriptionists type so fast. It's correct, word for word. The only thing I did was edit out the stammering and the uhs and ums.

Reporter: Madame Speaker, just to be clear, you are accusing the CIA of lying to you in Sept. of 2002.

Pelosi: Yes, misleading the Congress of the United States. Misleading the Congress of the United States.

Reporter: ...and doing it again now as they release this list of briefings that says you were briefed on the interrogation tactics that were being used...

Pelosi: I'm quoting what the head of the CIA has said. We don't know if this information is accurate that he's talking about. What they briefed us on... and perhaps they should release the briefings, I would be very happy if they would release the briefings, and then you will see what they briefed in one time in one time and another House and Senate and the rest, and perhaps with the intense interest that this has generated because of the distraction that the Republicans want to cause with this then you can make a judgment yourself about what you think these briefings were. But I'm telling you, that they talked about interrogations that they had done and said "We want to use enhanced techniques and we have legal opinions that say that they are okay. We are not using waterboarding." That's the only mention that they were not using it. And we now know that earlier they were. So yes, I am saying that they are misleading, that the CIA was misleading the Congress and at the same time, the administration was misleading the Congress on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. To which I said, the intelligence does not support the imminent threat to which the press asked the same question you just did now. Are you accusing them of lying. I said "I'm just stating a fact".

I think this is going to be a very big story by the end of the day and I can't wait to see what the CIA has to say in response. This is going to be very interesting.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

1. And Bob Graham says they are wrong about when he was briefed. nt

[TheDebbieDee]

31. Madame Speaker has thrown down the gauntlet.

They (the repukes anfd faux snooze) will go after/start smearing members of Pelosi's family now........

[DemReadingDU]

74. Bob Graham would know when he was briefed. He kept notebooks

Graham kept notebooks of everything, every day, even what he ate.


edit to add link
5/14/09 Graham: CIA Gave Me False Information About Interrogation Briefings

In testimony that could bolster Speaker Nancy Pelosi's claim that the CIA misled her during briefings on detainee interrogations, former Senator Bob Graham insisted on Thursday that he too was kept in the dark about the use of waterboarding, and called the agency's records on these briefings "suspect."

In an interview with the Huffington Post, the former Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman said that approximately a month ago, the CIA provided him with false information about how many times and when he was briefed on enhanced interrogations.

"When this issue started to resurface I called the appropriate people in the agency and said I would like to know the dates from your records that briefings were held," Graham recalled. "And they contacted me and gave me four dates -- two in April '02 and two in September '02. Now, one of the things I do, and for which I have taken some flack, is keep a spiral notebook of what I do throughout the day. And so I went through my records and through a combination of my daily schedule, which I keep, and my notebooks, I confirmed and the CIA agreed that my notes were accurate; that three of those four dates there had been no briefing. There was only one day that I had been briefed, which was September the 27th of 2002."
more...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/14/graham-cia-gave-me-false_n_203683.html

[lamp_shade]

2. Boner is ripping her to shreds right now in a press conference.

He doesn't believe the CIA would LIE.

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. I certainly don't agree with him.

But I'd be afraid for myself, my family, and friends if I said what Nancy said in public LOL. The woman has balls.

[lamp_shade]

8. She certainly does. I have (and have always had) the greatest admiration for her.

[glinda]

80. Yes. It is the Covert Government vs. The Real Government now. Yikes!

[sinkingfeeling]

6. Is he crying yet?

[bridgit]

11. Rove came upon Boner as a vaporous visitation above his bed and told him...

he'd better get out there and start to support the OpEd Rove had coming out on the subject any minute...Boner, a proper 'lay down guy', jacked his jaw on out there and the rest is current events :) Dems had to have seen this coming. Off to work; by this afternoon I expect to see several republicans pushed into funky mud puddles...it's the only authority they respect

[belpejic]

45. Boner = Power bottom (n/t)

[polichick]

4. Good for her - maybe she was serious about this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ekPju0d6L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA240_SH20_OU01_.jpg

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. I'd avoid flying on small aircraft if I were her.

I'd only fly on large commercial aircraft that had full passenger lists in the hope that using human shields would help protect me from the spooks she just pissed off.

I'm angry that she didn't speak out way back when, just as you are. Let's be straight about that.

[The Magistrate]

13. Do You Seriously, Sir, Suggest Speaker Pelosi Be Hanged?

Can you think of any reason such an absurd and over the top statement be taken seriously?

[Ian David]

17. If she is complict in War Crimes, then she needs to be investigated and punished.

What the actual sentence is to be carried out is not up to me.

But IIRC, hanging is one of the possibilities.

[The Magistrate]

22. So You Are Serious In Suggesting Speaker Pelosi Be Hanged, then, Sir?

We can leave aside for a moment that no capital statute applies; even persons convicted at the Hague of genocide simply serve jail terms.

What is of more interest is what you conceive to be a legal theory under which any charge could be brought against Speaker Pelosi in this matter. 'Complicity' is simply a meaningless noise tossed about in discussing this matter; it has no legal significance whatever. Legal responsibility in this matter is borne solely by the leaders of the Executive in the Bush administration, and their direct subordinates. Mere knowledge, even were that knowledge proved, does not convey responsibility nor constitute a crime in itself.

[Ian David]

24. Assuming you are correct (which you usually are) ...

... What do you think should be the legal consequences in what is now, IMHO, the near certainty that Pelosi knew or should have known that War Crimes were being committed?

And what if the whole "impeachment is off the table" routine was done merely to cover her own complicity in the war crimes?

Wouldn't refusing to investigate constitute more than just KNOWLEDGE of War Crimes, but in fact make her an accessory to War Crimes?

[The Magistrate]

32. There Are No Legal Consequences, Sir, None: People Need To Get That Through Their Heads

To be an accessory to a crime, one must commit an act that advances the crime materially. Abiding by laws governing classified information does not nearly suffice. Congressional investigation is neither arrest nor trial; it stops nothing. Refraining from it cannot activate the concept of command authority, under which an official becomes responsible for the acts of subordinates who he or she has direct authority over, and whose criminal acts he or she knew of or should have known of, and did not order stopped. The Speaker of the House, let alone a minority member of a House committee, has no legal authority over any member or employee of the Executive branch, and no measurable influence, even , when the Executive is in the hands of a different political party. Even impeachment, which is not a legal enforcement of criminal statutes, since it simply removes from office rather than consigns to prison on conviction, does not constitute the necessary authority. This entire 'Pelosi is complicit' line is simply a venting of spleen; it has no legal standing, and not even any political utility in the present circumstance, since the defenders of the Bush administration are pressing it as a chosen line of defense, or rather obfuscation, in their attempt to shield the persons who actually committed the crime of torturing prisoners in custody. It is on the persons who actually committed the crime of torturing prisoners in custody that we on the left should maintain focus.

[redqueen]

35. "People Need To Get That Through Their Heads"

Oh please oh please oh please let this happen.

Trolls are having a field day around here with this crap. :banghead:

[Ian David]

47. Where can we buy spleens to throw at her? n/t

[The Magistrate]

48. To Properly Vent One's Spleen, Sir, One Makes An Incision Between The False Ribs On The Left Side

This will give it plenty of air....

[Hekate]

67. LOL. Oh my dear, dear stuffy Magistrate...

... you're funny. :rofl:

Hekate

[The Magistrate]

68. You Are Too Kind, O Goddess Of the Triune Cross-Road....

[Hekate]

69. There's a dance in the old dame yet...

;-)

[uppityperson]

83. However, Sir, those are more commonly called floating ribs

good reply

[Baby Snooks]

70. Complicity is not a crime?

It it were Tom De Lay instead of Nancy Pelosi, you would be screaming for a public hanging. But because it's Nancy Pelosi, it's okay?

What's wrong with Democrats is what's wrong with Republicans. They wave the flag and follow the Pied Piper. The Pied Piper always leads you to the river and drowns you.

[The Magistrate]

71. If It were Delay, Sir, My Unfortunate Duty Would Be To Point Out He Committed No Crime

Of course, it is possible there would be more pressing business than executing that particular duty at any given moment, but such is life....

[PassingFair]

91. How about "conspiracy"?

Is there a RICO angle here?

"The Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (commonly referred to as RICO Act or RICO) is a United States federal law that provides for extended criminal penalties and a civil cause of action for acts performed as part of an ongoing criminal organization. "

RICO offenses

Under the law, racketeering activity means:

* Any violation of state statutes against gambling, murder, kidnapping, arson, robbery, BRIBERY, EXTORTION, dealing in obscene matter, or dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in the Controlled Substances Act);
* Any act of bribery, counterfeiting, theft, embezzlement, FRAUD, dealing in obscene matter, OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE, slavery, racketeering, gambling, money laundering, commission of murder-for-hire, and several other offenses covered under the Federal criminal code (Title 18);
* Embezzlement of union funds;
* Bankruptcy or securities fraud;
* Drug trafficking;
* Money laundering and related offenses;
* Bringing in, aiding or assisting aliens in illegally entering the country (if the action was for financial gain);
* ACTS OF TERRORISM.

[merh]

15. ditto

I say investigate them all, dems & repubs & indies - CIA, congress, the admin - anyone that knew about torture, that remained silent and let it happen, that approved it, ordered it and carried it out needs to be charged and tried for their crime(s).

"off the table" - just a little ole investigation and you had enough to call for impeachment Nanc, you should have stopped this years ago.

[Winterblues]

7. Yet she voted for the IWR..

"and at the same time, the administration was misleading the Congress on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. To which I said, the intelligence does not support the imminent threat to which the press asked the same question you just did now. Are you accusing them of lying. I said" "I'm just stating a fact".


I don't get it...:shrug:

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. Neither did I. For what it's worth, it all seemed a little like a tap dance to me.

I've listened to and watched the clip over and over and still don't understand.

[Enrique]

29. false

Pelosi and the majority of dems voted against the IWR.

[Freddie Stubbs]

55. That is a lie. She voted against it:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll455.xml

[bdamomma]

10. oh crap, Nancy is going up against the CIA.

this is going to be very nasty.

[madokie]

20. I'll stick with Nancy on this

My opinion of her has grown exponentially from this

[deacon]

89. If Obama wasn't such a coward. She wouldn't be putting up with this.

HE created the fiasco by not having the guts to deal with it.

[bdamomma]

93. let her go up against the terrorist organization of the CIA.

[derby378]

14. Wow...

I honestly didn't believe she had it in her.

But let's see where this goes. Pelosi has disappointed me before.

[bdamomma]

19. well if she goes down I hope she takes a several repigs with her.

this should be interesting.

[bdamomma]

16. kick

[malaise]

18. Go Nancy

Special Prosecutor NOW

[bdamomma]

21. who was the Director of the CIA then?

[The Magistrate]

23. Tenent, Ma'am, If Recollection Serves

[sinkingfeeling]

27. Tenet was Director in 2002.

[underpants]

25. Good work thanks cherokee. I have a thread on it too. KICKING this back up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5653836&mesg_id=5653836

I know how hard the type pause play type pause play type pause play can be

[cherokeeprogressive]

59. Much appreciated. This morning I wished I had the pedal device that transcribers use to ff and rew.

I saw your thread too. We were on top of it today weren't we.

[Stinky The Clown]

26. I'm glad she's finally speaking up

I have always felt she was holding back on this issue. I'm glad to see this out there.

[Jennicut]

28. Boner thinks that no one in the CIA lies? Ha ha. Is that not what they do for a living

to get intelligence? Lie to and manipulate people?

[barbtries]

30. and back coups

and assassinate people....

[Jennicut]

34. And so on and so on. Boner's brain most be going due to the unnatural chemicals

he coats himself with to get his Day-Glo tan.

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our second quarter 2009 fund drive.
Donate and you'll be automatically entered into our daily contest.
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[southernyankeebelle]

36. ME THINKS THE REPUBLICANS PROTEST TO MUCH

SHOW US THE MEMOS. OF COURSE WE KNOW THE CIA CAN FIX THINGS THE WAY THEY WANT TO. BUT AGAIN LETS SEE THE FACTS. THE REPUBLICANS KEEP PUSHING FOR A FIGHT THAN BRING IT ON AND SHOW EVERTHING.

[DCKit]

79. And fer Chrissakes, if the CIA is going to forge documents to prove Nancy's guilt...

let's hope that they're marginally better than that tragically awful "Young Bin Laden" tape they made and released for Dick. That was beyond embarrassing. I have no doubt that intelligence agencies that pay their staff with bananas and rubber toys were scratching their heads over that one.

[ColbertWatcher]

37. Didn't someone in the CIA lie to Powell? Or, am I misremembering stuff? n/t

[blm]

46. You got it right. WH had Powell lied to so he could work on convincing Senate Dems to support IWR

and do it with his integrity on the line. Biden and Powell were really close, and BushInc used Powell to convince him and other senators that they should vote for IWR because there would be no rush to war and that it could still be avoided.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

38. OVARIES !!!!!!!!!!!! She's got ovaries!

Thank you for the transcribing.

I also like her adding the truth that the Republicans want to cause distraction

[Captain Hilts]

50. People here certainly fell for the shiny distraction. nt

[notadmblnd]

39. Did Cheney stay in Virginia to direct the CIA?

He should have gone home to Wyoming and I never understood why he stayed in town. Am I the only one seeing this?

[Autumn Colors]

40. Medical Transcriptionist here....

We use a foot pedal that automatically rewinds a little bit when you lift your foot up.

We type fast to make up for the times we have to stop and look up names of new drugs, etc.

Off topic, I know.

She'd better make it a point of staying off small planes.

[cherokeeprogressive]

60. Former Keyboarding Instructor here. 80-85 wpm corrected.

My co-worker who taught transcription typed about 130-140 wpm with ZERO errors over five minutes. Her fingers FLEW.

This morning I wished I had that pedal. I'm familiar with it, but never could get the hang of it. Give me a pedal for my right foot and all I can think of is pressing it harder LOL.

[Maccagirl]

41. She had better have proof to back up her words

to insulate herself. Boner & Co can scream all they want as long as Pelosi is smart about this (for once), PLEASE let her have thought this one through and it be air-tight or else she'll be toast.

[MadMaddie]

75. Problem for Republicans is Nancy is not the only one saying

that the CIA is lying.

This could get very interesting.

[glinda]

82. Maybe this is soooo big that they are going to have to tell the public so we have their backs.

I think the shit is going to hit the fan.

[backscatter712]

42. I got flambéd on this board for suggesting that Nancy Pelosi was improving, but she is improving.

She's taking stronger stances, she's doing a better job at keeping the House moving in a productive direction and preventing Rethug stalling tactics, and she's not tolerating bullshit.

Don't get me wrong - I have not been happy with her refusal to allow impeachment, nor her refusal to allow single payer on the table, but she is a hell of a lot better at her job than Harry Reid is at at his.

I'm sure something else will come up to make me pissed at her, but I have more respect for her than I used to.

[MadMaddie]

97. I agree with you, it appears something has changed doesn't it?

[Canuckistanian]

43. "perhaps they should release the briefings"

Does that sound like someone who's lying??

[Captain Hilts]

44. A woman doesn't need to have 'balls' to be tough. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

61. .

[Captain Hilts]

64. How non-progressive of you. Do you compliment blacks by saying "that's white of you"? nt

[rch35]

78. who doesnt? nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

87. I apologize for offending your sensibilities.

That wasn't my intent.

True apology.

[Captain Hilts]

95. Keep up the Good Fight.

Let's keep this show on the road...

Hilts

[spanone]

49. it doesn't take guts or balls if it's true.

[opihimoimoi]

51. My Take: The TRUTH rides with NANCY...Bring on the MEMOs of those meetings

the real ones...not fixed.....

Let the TRUTH emerge from her darkened closet....

[truedelphi]

52. I tried to tell you guys here on DU days ago that we should not

Assume that what the CIA was saying was true. I even defendeed Pelsois - not that I am a big fan of hers, but she shouldn't go down for something she was not complicit in.

The CIA lies - that is probably the most important part of their job. It also spies, but lying comes first.

[cherokeeprogressive]

62. And I trashed her. I was rightly smacked down for it too. I spoke too soon it seems.

Nancy, I apologize.

[EFerrari]

66. On the other hand, politicians are dedicated truth tellers.

:)

[Javaman]

53. This is the lynch pin....

that is being pulled that will start the grand cascade that become morons*, crashcart and the rest of the dopes fall.

There was another thread floating around on DU stating that the CIA may have given two briefing on the torture matter. One for the repuke fuckers and one for the Dems.

So as much as I bust on pelosi from time to time regarding her willful spinelessness on certain matters, she my be right on this one.

I'm eager to see how this turns out.

[BuyingThyme]

54. I heard that track a few times and never heard the "Yes" as above.

[cherokeeprogressive]

86. Have you read verbatim transcripts? Here's one.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2009/05/pelosi_says_cia_lied_to_congre.html

Q: Madam Speaker, just to be clear, you are accusing the CIA of lying to you in September of 2002?

Speaker Pelosi. Yes, misleading the Congress of the United States. Misleading the Congress of the United States.

[sybylla]

56. Intestinal fortitude always makes things interesting

Especially when the opposition is known for being a cluck of chickenhawk bullies. They can bluff and bluster and whine but they can't stand the heat when someone actually calls them on their BS.

I just hope she's got her game pieces all in place before making a statement like this.

Who knows. :shrug: Maybe George Tenent will come crawling out of the woodwork to stand at Cheney's side now.

[Blue Meany]

57. I think the CIA was scapegoated for the Iraq intelligence that

was fabricated by the Bush administration, and I'm guessing that a lot of the leaks in Bush's second term were payback from people within the Agency. The CIA is not an institution one generally wants as an opponent: both Nixon and Carter tried to reign in the agency and had problems as a result.

But I don't know why the CIA, as an insitution, would go after Democrats in Congress. I'm guessing the Bush administration must have left some partisans behind to muddy the water for them.

[ControlledDemolition]

77. It's ironic Bush Jnr. 'patsied' the CIA. The CIA knows a thing or two about patsies! n/t

[Born_A_Truman]

58. Well, I think it's interesting the difference in details

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/enhanced-interrogation-briefings-to-congress.pdf

The 9/4/02 briefing of Pelosi & Goss does NOT specifically mention waterboarding.

The 2/4/03 briefing of Roberts & Rockefeller does--it says "considerable detail including how the water board was used".

Why not the same details of 9/4/03?

[mmonk]

63. Nothing like a little heat for someone to get religion.

Better late than never.

[leveymg]

65. "They talked about interrogations that they had done and said . . ."We are not using waterboarding."

Okay. That's pretty unequivocal. Either the CIA lied to her, or she's lying to us. It's gotta be one or the other - there's no middle ground.

I still can't figure out why the CIA would lie to her. We were all bound to find out, sooner or later, that Abu Zubaydeh was tortured, unless they thought they'd get away with it. What happened to change that assumption? Did someone in the loop grow a spine and stand up to Cheney at a critical point? Had to be someone too powerful to silence. Who might that be?

[DemReadingDU]

73. At that time, Republicans controlled everything

They probably assumed it was going to be the permanent Republican majority, forever, so there was no need to tell any details. I think Pelosi was told the minimum.


edit: see my posting #74 above about Bob Graham
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5653913&mesg_id=5658119

[leveymg]

88. There was one US institution still powerful enough to push back - the Joint Chiefs

Larry Wilkerson has an interesting post up at WashingtonNote: www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2009/05/the_truth_about/

My investigations have revealed to me--vividly and clearly--that once the Abu Ghraib photographs were made public in the Spring of 2004, the CIA, its contractors, and everyone else involved in administering "the Cheney methods of interrogation", simply shut down. Nada. Nothing. No torture or harsh techniques were employed by any U.S. interrogator. Period. People were too frightened by what might happen to them if they continued.

What I am saying is that no torture or harsh interrogation techniques were employed by any U.S. interrogator for the entire second term of Cheney-Bush, 2005-2009. So, if we are to believe the protestations of Dick Cheney, that Obama's having shut down the "Cheney interrogation methods" will endanger the nation, what are we to say to Dick Cheney for having endangered the nation for the last four years of his vice presidency?

Wilkerson is correct here - Army intelligence took and released the photos. It was pushback against the Bush-Cheney Administration by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the last independent institution powerful enough to resist the neocons.

When no WMD were found in Iraq by May 2003, this outraged a number of ranking military and intelligence officers. They knew they had been scammed by the neocons. The JCS and CIA inititiated an investigation of criminal fraud by the White House in manipulating intelligence and the Plame outing. By 2004, the CIA and U.S. armed forces had the evidence they needed to prosecute Cheney's circle, and handed the case to Fitzgerald. The Scooter Libby, OSP-AIPAC investigations and public outrage over Abu Ghraib crippled the White House politically, and boxed them in until they left office.

The political apparatus broke down after 9/11. Congress utterly failed to check and balance an aggressive cabal intent on a wider war in the Middle East and dictatorship at home. So, the uniformed military and intelligence mandarins did what they had to - a bloodless coup. Had this not happened, we would now be at war with Iran and half the world.

- Mark

[DemReadingDU]

90. I remember reading some of your earlier postings

That were about the Joint Chiefs being outraged. Thankfully, they stood their ground and were able to get evidence against Cheney's circle. Hopefully, there are others working in the background to go after Cheney himself.

[leveymg]

96. Prosecution of Cheney has been in the works for years in DC

You can kick around most of Congress as much as you like, and some of them will just lean over and beg for more. But, don't f-ck with the Joint Chiefs and CIA and expect to get away with it. Nobody does.

[wiggs]

72. WHY IS IT NO ONE TALKS ABOUT the hundreds of CIA personnel that were

purged, moved, fired because they weren't true believers?? The Clintons were dragged over the coals because they fired a couple of WH travel agents. The Bush administration politicized the justice department and cia and....nothing. Maybe this is a good time for Pelosi to bring this up and to bring up Rove going around to various departments telling them which projects would end up getting republicans re elected.

Of course they misled congress and maybe even Bush. They were working for Cheney et al instead of for us.

[girl gone mad]

76. Funny how she grows a pair when it comes to defending herself.

She's a pushover the rest of the time.

[Beacool]

81. I believe neither one.

Both, the CIA and Nancy, are trying to cover their ass. I'm not rooting for either one, let the chips fall where they may.

:shrug:

[leftstreet]

85. +1

I agree

[deacon]

84. It's ridiculous. The one that is against torture is being harassed as the ones that support torture

aren't on a stand defending their actions and support.

This is Obama's fault. He lacked the backbone to do the right thing and call in a special prosecutor. Now we have a fiasco going on.

He's bright and smart with good intentions, but he is showing he lacks the necessary courage.

[Better Believe It]

94. She was told torture had been approved but not yet used. She did not object

She did not go public.

She has balls of steel?

I don't think so.

[bdamomma]

92. well now since the repigs are going after Nancy in this matter

she will want a committee to investigate this whole thing. It is CYA time.