I don't give a flying fugg about Nancy Pelosi

[malaise]

I want the war criminals in chief brought to book. Call their bluff Nancy.

Poor Cliff May is about to pop a blood vessel on GEM$NBC. Damn they're scared shitless.
The noose is tightening. Cliff May's face is blood red.

add

[ixion]

1. yeah, I'm no Pelosi fan

she's been a source of near constant disappointment.

War criminals must stand trial in the US, or face trials elsewhere in the world (like Spain).

[malaise]

2. Ditto

This is about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the other goons from the Bushco administration.
I do not intent to be sidetracked.

[Chipper Chat]

8. Hannity is absolutely giddy over the possible downfall of Pelosi

as if her leaving the Speaker's post would destroy the democratic party and the pub takeover would commence.
If she vacates, then Hello Speaker Murtha or Speaker Kuscinich. How 'ya like them apples Sean?

[The Magistrate]

11. Hannity, Sir, is Being More Delusional Than Usual

[The Magistrate]

3. Nor Does The Country, Ma'am: The Criminality Resides With the Bush Administration Solely

[malaise]

4. 100% correct Mr Magistrate

Sir :hi:

As Tweety starts out 'Spreading the blame'. That's all that's going on here.

[bobthedrummer]

9. I hope you're being funny, malaise...

:dilemma:

[malaise]

12. I want the chief suspects bobthedrummer and I am

dead serious. Whoever else is taken down in the process is gravy. I want the fugging meat - Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, the lawyers and the other goons.

[bobthedrummer]

16. I'm together with that starting at the top, Cheney/Rumsfeld/Gonzales saving Bush for special handlin

but I don't give a fugg about this party loyalty shit when all the parties are full of corruption and cronies that failed US
:fistbump:

[malaise]

36. We agree on everything then

Do not forget as Hoyer is reminding us that the Republican Congress refused to veto Bush and override the anti-torture Bill. I want the meat.
sp

[bobthedrummer]

5. You're wrong again, members of the 109th &110th Congress share in it-they failed US eom

[The Magistrate]

10. They Committed No Crime, Sir, And Are Not Responsible For The Acts Of the Criminals

Prosecuting the crime of torturing prisoners in custody is all that concerns me in this matter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Commision and Omision

read on it

[The Magistrate]

15. There Is Mortal And Venial As Well, Ma'am: What Is Your Point?

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. They have commited crimes, by commision and omision

that is the point

This should not be partisan... but but, my side... my side my ass... this is not a football game.

But count on it, prosecution my ass. The empire comes first.

All this is smoke and mirrors, pure and simple... and those who defend any of these people has no clue.

[The Magistrate]

21. They Have Committed No Crime Under Any Law, Ma'am

Members of the Bush administration, however, certainly did commit the crime, under U.S. and international law, of torturing prisoners in custody.

[bobthedrummer]

23. They failed to uphold their oath to preserve, protect and defend our Constitution collectively eom

[The Magistrate]

24. Mere Noise, Sir, And No Crime Even If It Had Substance

They behaved differently than you would prefer: unless you are King, that is no crime....

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Actually yes it is, if they KNEW torture was happenng

and they didn't do a thing to stop it, it is a cover up.

I know we want to think that it hasn't happened, but it has. It may even be aiding and abetting

You know like the driver of the get away car in a robbery, if you need an obvious example. So yes, we should have an independent prosecutor (won't happen) and a grand jury convened (won't happen) and indictments where they deserve to be given, (won't happen).

At this point we all can say there are two systems of justice in the US. The one for the little people and the one for the well connected. Not necessarily the well heeled, the well-connected.

[The Magistrate]

27. No, Ma'am: No Law States Any Such Thing

People can only be held accountable for not exercising authority they possess in a matter such as this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. You also know that you cannot use the secrecy act to hide

crimes. Something going back to the Pentagon Papers...

Just thought I'd mention this for you

Now if you excuse me, putting my country before my party takes priority in my life. If in your case cheering my team on is all that matters, then you are a good Imperial subject. I am not, I am a citizen. It is work, and at times places me at odds with the cheer leaders (on both sides of the aisle) but oh well. I take citizenship very seriously.

[The Magistrate]

39. That Was An Odd Decision, Ma'am

Worth reading in full. The circumstance was very different, of course, being a grand jury inquiry into the disclosure of the items to the public before Sen. Gravel's aide was summoned, but while it stated there could be no prosecution result from a legislator's reading classified items on the floor, it expressly stated anyone who reported what was read outside the chamber was liable to prosecution for disclosing classified information. Thus, had then Rep. Pelosi made the desired speech, anyone who retailed it to the public would have been up on charges, and without a shred of legal defense. One is irresistibly reminded of the query concerning a tree falling in the forest....

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Again are yuo a citizen or a cheerleader

and the decision stands

By the way citizens QUESTION

Subjects (and cheerleaders) follow

[The Magistrate]

41. Pretensions Of Moral Superiority, Ma'am, Will Get You Nowhere

They do not even amuse....

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Ok where did I read this meme before?????

Oh yes, Free Republic and the AOL boards back in the day.

Look in the mirror magistrate... all the ugly stuff people said about the other side and their willingness to put party before country are here now.

Again, citizens questions, subjects follow, pretty simple

And it is not moral superiority. But some of us take our citizenship far more seriously than any party or elected representative.

And yes, if they knew a crime was committed and chose to do nothing, they had an out...

It might not have been comfortable. They may have faced jail time... but people are truly tested in their mettle in situations like that. Hell in the real world where I live those who do the right thing are not even rewarded most of the time... but that is the real world... but doing the right thing has its own rewards.

They chose not to... their choice...

[The Magistrate]

45. Far Below Your Usual Standard, Ma'am

"If sainthood was common, who would revere a saint?"

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. read some on this citizenship shtickj

The government is us; we are the government, you and I.
Theodore Roosevelt

Character, in the long run, is the decisive factor in the life of an individual and of nations alike.
Theodore Roosevelt

All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
Thomas Jefferson

Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government.
Thomas Jefferson

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
Thomas Jefferson


There are more where those come from...

[The Magistrate]

49. Of No Relevance, Ma'am, To The Question At Hand, Namely Who Bears Criminal Liability

Cheney, Bush, various lesser functionaries of that administration of the Executive, do: no one else, anywhere, does.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. Yes it does, because it includes some of our people

and this is not a partisan issue

The chain of criminality goes from the top... the President of the United States, to the lowest level trooper who obeyed orders (didn't Nuremberg throw that out?)

So if you are to be a citizen, you are to demand prosecution and trials for all involved. From the top... all the way to those who obeyed orders

It matters little what letter is behind their name or what they were doing at the time.

The level of guilt is different from person to person, but this is not a partisan matter. You are making it partisan... but it is not.

Don't worry, your precious dems will be protected, with your precious Repigss, because gosh darn it we are the US... and we will not demand that what needs to be done is done... because we as a nation are rotten to the core.

So your choice is to make this a partisan matter, which you are doing, or a matter of ethics and character.

[The Magistrate]

51. Nonesense, Ma'am: No Criminal Liability Exists In the Legislature Over This

The chain of command, as you may note even from your own phrasings, does not include the Congress where acts of the Executive's organs are involved. If you do not like various Democratic members of Congress for various reasons, that is one thing, but maintaining they are criminally liable for the acts of the Bush administration is nonesense.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. What part of you cannot use the secrecy act to hide a crime

are you obtusely missing?

[The Magistrate]

53. The Part, Ma'am, That Opens Criminal Liability Under Any Known Theory Of Law

Something you have not come close to providing, any more than you have engaged the substance of the Court ruling you are brandishing in making the statement above.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Whatever, you go on telling that to yourself

and be a partisan, we are done.

For the millions who have died when good men have refused to speak...

For the millions more who have lost all when good men have refused to scream.

For the millions more that will die, because people still refuse to do what is right.

You go on.

Forgive me for not joining you in the cheering alley.

I will be at the corner, weeping... we have not learned... we humans never learn.

[bobthedrummer]

26. Spoken like a loyal Democratic Party neoliberal, but again you're wrong-get used to the "noise" eom

[The Magistrate]

29. So You Accuse Me Of Being A Democrat, Sir? The Horror....

Will it be possible for me to hold up my head in public henceforth? A DEMOCRAT!

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Actually I'd use another term, a partisan

and I would not be holding my head high on that charge, but that is just me.

This is about the law, are we a nation of laws, or a nation of hypocrites?

I know the answer, and what is staring back from that mirror is utter hypocrisy.

[bobthedrummer]

57. lol, nope, it's the neoliberal bullying part that sticks-but nice try ...

[The Magistrate]

58. Could You Define Neo-Liberal, Sir?

[bobthedrummer]

59. You

[The Magistrate]

60. Surely, Sir, You Have A List Of Policy Positions, Stands On Issues, Common To This Demon Du Jour?

"I hate flattery, especially that awkward kind you have to work to believe."

[The Magistrate]

62. So, Sir, Coming On Twenty-Four Hours, You Cannot Provide a Coherent Definition?

[malaise]

35. The issue is (as Shultz is saying)

This is their -Bushco policy
Torture was a Bush policy - who gave the orders.
I don't care who goes down with them but they are my only interest at this time.

[me b zola]

42. Here's the thing

Those who conspired and ordered the crimes are using this as a way to evade responsibility. Every mainstream news source, with very few notable exceptions, are still "debating" on their pages and airwaves if A) torture is illegal, B) if what the bush* administration ordered is torture, and C) even if it is illegal "so what" if it was done to "terrorists" or to protect Americans.

These news sources persist in acting as though there is a debate about those issues, that it is very likely that what the bush* administration has done was okay and the matter should be dropped. At the same time they are running with the "what did Nancy know and when did she know it" gop talking point. If they aren't sure and aren't going to pursue the crimes of the bush* administration, then WTF does it matter what Nancy knew and when did she know it?--except to obfuscate the issue and to divide US?

Make the goppers admit that torture occurred, that it is illegal, and that it did not keep us safer before we sacrifice someone who may or may not have been briefed on the matter after the fact.

Don't let them divide us. Don't let them hide behind smoke and mirrors.

[The Magistrate]

44. Hear Hear, Ma'am!

[malaise]

46. Absolutely correct

:hi:

[EFerrari]

17. And the 108th. They sat out the Taguba hearings with hardly a peep.

But, first things first.

[bobthedrummer]

20. Yep, yet there is a certain priority-thanks for reminding me Beth...

[spanone]

6. her knowledge or not, does not decriminalize one thing bu$h*/cheney did

[malaise]

14. It is that simple

Give me the meat - Special Prosecutor time. Cheney and his sidekick Rumsfeld are going down.

[badgolfer]

7. Pelosi and the Repugs

Pelosi is finding out that trying to play nice with Republicans is a waste of time.
They will rip her apart if she doesn't get a spine on this. She needs to open this
whole thing up with a House investigation and let the chips fall where they may.

Between Reid and Pelosi, I don't know which one lets the Repugs railroad them the most.

[spanone]

18. i haven't heard one 'pundit' ask, 'what did bu$h* know and when did he know it?'

[EFerrari]

22. It's like he never existed. Isn't that weird? n/t

[malaise]

34. Listen to Ed Shultz' OP ED

on now

[malaise]

28. 100% Correct

I will not pay attention to obfuscation and diversion at this time.

This is about the Bush Executive branch of Government. If members of Congress go down with them, so be it but I want Bushco.

[TheMachineWins]

30. Agreed, Pelosi answered all these questions years ago

It's a completely desperate move by a dying republican party to avoid being charged with war crimes which, they will be tried for anyway if the majority of Americans have any say in our so-called democracy anymore.

[Joanne98]

31. I'd forgive her if she would just put single payer on the table.

[jsamuel]

32. Just heard a clip that Obama doesn't want single payer right now.

I don't think the congress will pass something Obama doesn't want. He said it would be too big a change to up heave a sixth of the economy right now.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Annces]

55. I agree with Grovelbot n/t

[PopSixSquish]

47. Ok, For the Sake of Argument - If Nancy Pelosi Did Know...

and did what some folks here have suggested and stood on the floor of the House of Representatives and read this into the record, what would have happened?

Fall 2002 - one year from 9/11, one year from the anthrax attacks, troops on the ground in Afghanistan, the run-up to Iraq taking place...

Does anyone HONESTLY think that things would have changed?

The news about Bush/Rice and the August 6th memo and other security briefings came out and we got "Nobody thought that they would fly planes into buildings".

The news came out that Bush probably did go AWOL during his National Guard days and Dan Rather got fired.

The abuses at Abu Ghraib came out and Bush was re-elected President.

Do you want to know who is complicit in torture and war crimes? The news media who lapped up the the bullshit the Bush administration shoveled at them like a kitten with a bowl of cream.

Nancy Pelosi would have been pilloried from one end of this country to the other by the Republicans and the news media. Remember the Dixie Chicks and that comment was nothing.

I don't care about Nancy Pelosi. I want Bush and Cheney and all of the reporters who should have asked more questions and should have followed up on what they did know. I want them to do the perp walk. They are the ones who have blood on their hands.

[walldude]

56. No it wouldn't have changed anything... except...

she might have kept her soul...

This is all if what they say is true and she turned a blind eye. I will wait to hear all the facts, then the guilty can go to prison and the compliant can lose their damn jobs. Sorry, but if someone is wiling to hide something like that so they can keep their power, their position and their money then they don't need to be representing the people of America.

[malaise]

61. Good post

As expected Nancy Pelosi is the only game in town on GEM$NBC this morning.

More obfuscation.