"If we need to keep evidence of torture, like photographs, secret, to protect our troops..."

[WilliamPitt]

"If we need to keep evidence of torture, like photographs, secret, to protect our troops, doesn't that suggest that torture isn't a great way to keep them or us safe?"

- Josh Marshall

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/05/following_the_logic.php

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Tell it!

[Fumesucker]

2. Our government really does know best.

They are smarter than us and certainly have better, or at least more, information.

They really, really, really have our best interests at heart.

We should have faith in our government, faith is a good thing to have, why do you think politicians talk about faith all the time?

Can I get a witness, brother?

[glitch]

3. Yet another reason.

There are so many, torture is stupid and evil -- no surprise that bush/cheney would embrace it.

[damntexdem]

4. The best way to protect the troops is to prosecute those who ordered the torture.

Those who might torture U.S. troops don't need more pictures to get the idea. Prosecuting high U.S. officials, particularly an ex-prez and ex-VP, would likely get their attention, and maybe give them a different idea.

[FourScore]

19. Ditto. n/t

[soryang]

5. The purpose is to protect Cheney and other torturers from...

the American public. If the memos provoked a firestorm, the new photos will increase the clamor for prosecution. Our victims already know what we've done. It's the bamboozled and brainwashed US public that doesn't.

[pacalo]

6. Good point! I wish someone in the media would ask that question during a news conference.

[Liberation Angel]

7. Protecting Bush...

The fact is, as I see it, that the only way to protect our troops and raise Obama's and the USA's stature in the world and with those who argues that US crimes are at the heart of opposition to America is to EXPOSE the truth and prosecute the dirty bastards who ordered and encouraged such horrors.

This doesn't protect our troops, ultimately, because it protects Bush et al from prosecution for these crimes which diminishes the perception that the US is a criminal regime which does not face up to and admit the crimes of those who hijacked our country in 2000.

This protects Bush and places all of us in MORE danger.

Obama is just wrong on this.

[Bluerthanblue]

8. Yes indeed- the problem is Obama has not endorsed the use of torture-

he's the relief pitcher trying to cope with the mess bush has left. He can't undo what's been done- he can only do his best to finish out the inning honorably.

If Mr. Marshall's comment is directed toward those who think torture is EVER an acceptable technique, I heartily agree. If it's meant as condemnation of Pres. Obama, I think it misses the mark.

:hi:

[datasuspect]

9. the best way to protect the troops is to discontinue george w. bush's jihad

it was never necessary in the first place, not even afghanistan.

[ControlledDemolition]

15. The Taliban said they would hand over Bin Laden if they were given proof of his 911 involvement. n/t

[nichomachus]

26. Except that by that time -- the Taliban had no control over him

They couldn't have delivered him if they wanted to.

[Mari333]

25. amen nt

[frylock]

10. kickeroo

[azul]

11. Let's see, how did US soldiers get into this situation? How to then make them safe

if that is to be a priority?

Start an illegal war of invasion and occupation to get oil ( for oil- from none other than the Guru Greenspan) based on torture-evoked false testimony and lies that this is protecting America from religious extremists. -Put US soldiers in harm's way illegally and deceptively for a financial cause, for corporate and state interests.

Then order these soldiers in some instances to commit crimes -because the commander in chief says that his orders are supreme in war, above any other laws or restrictions.

Then deny or hide the results from the US public, so that they don't change the situation, and leave soldiers stationed around the globe in over 730 military bases to make the statement of might makes right, Americans immune from local and international laws.



This empire thing is killing us, morally and financially. Give it up now, bring most all the military home ASAP, if we really care about the welfare of these soldiers representing the USA.

How can a democracy survive if it invades countries at whim and suppresses otherwise free peoples? It can't, except in the minds of the delusional.

[Wednesdays]

12. K&R

:kick:

[ShortnFiery]

13. These photos must be OUT in PUBLIC if we are to have any semblance of JUSTICE for

those who were tortured and/or for the HONEST troops who were reassigned, suffered PTSD from the horrors seen and/or those who committed suicide.

We need to bring the PHOTOS OUT for both Our Soldiers (the vast majority of morally sound ones) and The Victims.

This is just morally WRONG on so many damn levels.

Show the PHOTOS NOW!

What? Does GOD favor the USA more so we can bury our sins?!?

[horseshoecrab]

14. K&R n/t

[canetoad]

16. You know better than this Will

but you have decided to jump on the bandwagon. Does being an activist preclude having political wisdom?

[WilliamPitt]

20. Do I?

Explain it to me. I guess I'm pretty dumb.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. Me too. I need lots of help understanding this.

'cause from the depths of my stupidity, this looks real bad.

[Ignis]

30. It's pretty clear.

You're an unwise bandwagon-jumper.

Of course, the poster neglected to make a coherent argument as to precisely why this is the case from the fact that you posted a single quote from a TPM article.

So, obviously, the terrorists have already won. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. I don't know.

Maybe because the guy who's appealing the release of the photos realizes that torture is bad and has in fact ordered it to stop?

[progressoid]

17. Any freeper worth his salt

would tell you there is a difference between torture and pictures of torture. Torture can protect us. Pictures of that torture can harm us. The problem isn't that we tortured, it's that we took pictures of it.

Sincerely, Devil's advocate.

[kentuck]

18. But it begs the question...

Would it make it more dangerous for our troops to release the photos? If so, should that be weighed in the equation?

[lonestarnot]

21. sssssh! That's a secret!

:) How's that Hairy Bastid? TC is back to spunk after costing a house payment to get his tooth pulled. :evilgrin:

[deaniac21]

22. If any of our troops or citizens are captured they will be

tortured ruthlessly. The pictures won't make any difference, AT ALL.

[DinahMoeHum]

24. This shit is gonna leak out, sooner or later. . .

As for MHO, this whole thing is like a festering boil - if you don't lance it to let the pus drain out, it's gonna cause further complications.

So it's better to lance it (show the pictures) and get this damn thing over with. We as a nation cannot and will not move forward until that happens.

:( :hurts:

[nichomachus]

27. If the pictures are that horrible, that disgusting, that incendiary

then someone really needs to be in jail.

Round up all the members of the Bush administration whose fingerprints are on this and hold them, without bail, until we get a chance to sort this out.

If they don't do that, then every other excuse is just bullshit.

[Hissyspit]

28. kick nt

[crickets]

29. K&R -nt

[defendandprotect]

31. They need to keep what they did secret so we don't rise up and hold them responsible...

[ChiciB1]

34. Of Course... Getting Us Mad & Ready To Prosecute Would Be Such A BAD

thing! Get the stuff out there, quit beating around the "BUSH/CHENEY" and kick some ASS!!

Lance the boil as another has stated, I'm sick of all the nuance from OUR Government... the one that's OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people!

I think I've heard that once or twice before, not so much lately though. Actually not in a very, very, very long time!!

JMHO

[DU GrovelBot]

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[ToolTex]

35. Who has copies of these "torture photos?"

Surely they haven't killed everyone that has gotten hold of them. They are somewhere and they will come out. Someone in the White House or the CIA must be as disgusted and disillusioned with President Obama right now as I am.

[Liberation Angel]

36. There are copies of some photos circulating on the net

if it hasn't been mentioned.

alleged photos which are of despicable torture and inhumanity

I saw one at Drudge (who seems to have no issue with publishing it) with a link to the australian publisher

For me it is very simple

these are crime scene photos

the perpetrators of the the crime are still on the loose

they are being protected by Obama and Holder imho who is failing to prosecute them

for this reason the pictures are inflammatory

they would be deflammatory (is that a word?) IF Obama jailed and prosecuted Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld

THAT is why Cheney is raising such holy hell in his own defense.

He KNOWS that prosecution is a hairbreadth away

Obama's failure to take a stand agaist torture is what is inflaming the world.

Obama has it dead wrong.

His failure to expose the whole truth and prosecute the perpetrators puts ALL of us deeper in harm's way. It FURTHER endangers our troops. It further enables real terrorists to recruit those who say we are corrupt and fail to pursue justice or hold murderers and criminals and genocidists acountable.

THAT puts our troops in deeper sh#t.

Obama is fooling himself or is being led down a primrose path by our own domestic enemies.