There are 2 ways in which people are controlled: 1st of all, frighten people & 2ndly demoralize them

[omega minimo]

Well if you go back it all began with democracy.

Before we had the vote, all the power's in the hand of rich people;

If you had money, you had health care, education, look after yourself when you were old;

And what democracy did was to give the poor the vote and it moved power from the marketplace to the polling station, from the wallet to the ballot;

If you can find money to kiill people, you can find money to help people;

'Think democracy is the most revolutionary thing in the world, far more revolutionary than socialist ideas or anybody else's idea;

If you have power, you use it meet the needs of you and your community;

And this idea of choice which capital talks about all the time, you've got to have a choice....

Choice depends on the freedom to choose. And if you're shackled in debt, you don't have the freedom to choose;

People in debt become hopeless and hopeless people don't vote;

They always say everyone should vote but I think if the poor in Britain or the United States turned out and voted for people who represented their interests, there would be a real democratic revolution;

So they don't want it to happen, so keeping people hopeless and pessimistic...

See, I think there are two ways in which people are controlled: First of all, frighten people and secondly demoralize them;

An educated, healthy and confident nation is harder to govern and I think there's an element in the thinking of some people: we don't want people to be educated, healthy and confident or they'll get out of control (chuckle).

The top 1% of the world's population own 80% of the world's wealth.

It's incredible that people put up with it, but they're poor, they're demoralized, they're frightened;

So therefore, they think the safest thing to do is take orders and hope for the best.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3HyK5rB9jY

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=tony+benn&aq=f

[napoleon_in_rags]

1. I have just the thing for a thread on control:

William S Burroughs on the subject:

http://eng7007.pbworks.com/BurroughsControl

Highlights:

Control needs time in which to exercise control. Because control also needs opposition or acquiescence; otherwise, it ceases to be control. I control a hypnotized subject (at least partially); I control a slave, a dog, a worker; but if I establish complete control somehow, as by implanting electrodes in the brain, then my subject is little more than a tape recorder, a camera, a robot. You don't control a tape recorder - you use it.
...
In fact, the more completely hermetic and seemingly successful a control system is, the more vulnerable it becomes. A weakness inherent in the Mayan system is that they didn't need an army to control their workers, and therefore did not need an army when they needed one to repel invaders.
....
Here the method of control is force - the possession of guns. Decontrol would be accomplished by overpowering the leaders and taking their guns. This effected, it would be advantageous to kill them at once. So once embarked on a policy of control, the leaders must continue the policy as a matter of self-preservation.
...
They may also make concessions: increase food and water rations. A concession of course means the retention of control - that is, the disposition of the food and water supplies.
...
I don't mean to suggest that control automatically defeats itself, nor that protest is therefore unnecessary. A government is never more dangerous than when embarking on a self-defeating or downright suicidal course.

[omega minimo]

2. Thank you for that info link in the Thread That Shall Not Die

:yourock:

Forgive me for saying Burroughs sounds a bit ............. oh I can't say it. :wow:

[omega minimo]

3. If you have power, you use it meet the needs of you and your community

[H2O Man]

4. Very interesting.

This is a good OP on an interesting topic. Nominated, of course.

Another way of looking at this is in terms of "authority." There are, of course, three general forms of social/political authority: charismatic; traditional; and "legal," meaning a bureaucratic, institutional form.

For sake of discussing our culture at present, we are ruled by the legal/bureaucratic/institutional form. Within this type, there are several options. In terms of social control in the sense the OP focuses on, there are two types of interest.

The first, of course, is "overt authority": "Follow the rules, or you will be punished." This type instills the fear factor that you mention. The authority convinces folks that it's a dangerous world out there, with very angry, mean enemies. But those enemies happen to have, by sheer coincidence, all the mean, angry attributes that the leaders have.

The second type, which can actually be a more effective form of social control, is "anonymous authority": "Don't you want to do/buy/act this way? Just like everyone else? 'Cause if you don't, you will be 'different'." And "different" indeed equals the shame you note.

Each of these two forms of authority allows the leaders to define some groups/individuals as "others," meaning less than human enemies of the state.

Our culture currently uses a strange combination of these two forms of authority.

[omega minimo]

5. Our culture currently uses a strange combination of these two forms of authority.

Strange indeed.

And connected by a thread of "your punishment shall be less access to do/buy/act just like everyone else."


With apologies, the OP is actually a transcript from the video link. Tony Benn in Sicko. I did not state it, assuming people would click the link. I apologize.

[omega minimo]

6. .

[hfojvt]

7. so are you afraid we are becoming demoralized?

that 1% of the world's population owns 80% of the worlds wealth is kinda mind-boggling. But that 1% would still be 70 million people. Is there any chance that I am in that top 1%? I have close to $100,000 in assets.

That's not bad considering that I am in the bottom quintile of income in the US, but probably I am more like the 17% who think they are in the top 5% of income.

But all the power has never been in the hands of the rich people. A middle class person has a moderate amount of power. As far as the happiness of my life, neither Bill Gates nor Obama has all that much control over it. There's a whole social web of job, family, friends, and such that are more important.

[omega minimo]

10. Where is the change?

The system we had prior to the election appears to be the system we'll continue to have, with many of the same players.

The public, as for example on various discussion boards, would rather chip away at each other than make something big happen, via public will and organizing power.

So we will remain divided and controlled.

"An educated, healthy and confident nation is harder to govern and I think there's an element in the thinking of some people: we don't want people to be educated, healthy and confident or they'll get out of control (chuckle).*

"So therefore, they think the safest thing to do is take orders and hope for the best."

Yes, that's discouraging.

[hfojvt]

11. most people did not vote for systemic change

my fellow Kiwanians were not ready to celebrate sinco de Mayo as Karl Marx's birthday.

There is a thread here somewhere that I kicked about demonstrations on May 30th for a public medicare option in health care reform. Otherwise I am not sure what there is for making something big happen. Does PFAW have somebody in mind for SCOTUS that we should be lobbying for?

DU's big thing still seems to be obsessing about Bush and Cheney and a desire for vengeance against them.

Not that that's not understandable, but it's kinda like trying to find the a$$hole/moron who started the latest California fire whereas I think it's sorta more important to put the fire out first and then rebuild some homes second and then try to reduce the danger of the next fire third before worrying about the quaternary priority.

[omega minimo]

12. we both recall

Watergate hearings and Nixon's imminent impeachment (he removed himself from office)
Iran Contra and Reagan/Bush's non impeachment
Monicagate and the bogus Clinton impeachment
Non elected Bush/Cheney's impeachment Off The Table

Not sure what "obsessing" and "vengeance" you're referring to.

However, the damage to the whole damn topographical map where the arsonists did their dirty work is still at risk. Being prepared " to reduce the danger of the next fire" is insufficient.

For decades we've witnessed the destruction of a nation DUE TO the lack of repercussions for the arsonists.

[Deja Q]

8. So what can you do about it?

[omega minimo]

9. One way is become healthy, educated and confident.

:thumbsup: