Cheney supports it ... o my. Cheney did it ... o my. Pelosi knew about it ... KILL HER!

[Kablooie]

When the hell will we deal with the issue instead of tooting GOP talking points?

If Cheney does it it's not illegal or wrong.

If Pelosi knows about it she's a criminal and must go!

Once again the GOP has turned the whole thing around and put the Democrats on the defensive.

Damn they are good. Even in their current fucked up state they are better than Democrats at this politics stuff. .

[coyotespaw]

1. One of the regulars at the bar I work at

brought up the "Pelosi knew about it" talking point. I said to him, "hold on a sec, I'm going to rob the gas station across the street. Then, when the cops come after me, I'll let them know that I told you about it. Hopefully, that'll get me off the hook."
He didn't have an answer for it.

[Brandon8]

2. the correct answer then,

coyote, is that if true it completely discredits pelosi and whatever other democrats were briefed on the matter but who now say those enhanced interrogation methods were torture. if it was torture then they approved it and are liable.

[EFerrari]

4. What do you mean, if it was torture?

Of course it was torture.

And no, that doesn't make members of Congress who were briefed liable. They were prohibited from disclosing the content of their briefing.

George Bush ran a global torture program and he is being busted hard. And since Dick was the quarterback, he will also be busted hard.

This attack on Nancy is just the same cowardly thing Republicans always do when they're caught breaking the law, blame shifting. That's the only thing they're really good at. God knows, they can't run the country for shit.

[Brandon8]

21. according to the reports

and obviously everything has not yet come to light, but according to the reports no one on the commitee raised any objections. So yes it if that happened she was complicit, and if it was torture, she was complicit. Regardless of what Bush did or any one else, if Pelosi was complicit to torture that undermines her credibility in my book.

[EFerrari]

22. You mean, according to anonymous rumor?

That really isn't enough to accuse someone of something as serious as complicity with torture and murder.

[Brandon8]

23. CIA Memos

are not the same as rumor

[EFerrari]

25. Are they signed? Have they been vetted? Hasn't CIA itself said

they can't be sure those memos are accurate?

This is a big distraction from the main job: to hold the originators and implementers of Bush's global torture program to account.

[coyotespaw]

5. She had no more capacity to approve or deny approval

than did the guy I told my "plan to rob the store across the street" to. It also means that she is no more or less culpable than the person I told my plan to. The three card monte game's over, and the queen's up the asshole's sleeve.

[Raine]

7. Becareful with those RW talking points

being so new here you may not realize that's propaganda those over on another site like to come over here and spread ... wouldn't want you to get yourself a pizza now would you. :evilgrin:

[ljm2002]

10. No sir, the correct answer...

...was the one coyote gave in the first place.

Cheney et all committed crimes. Pelosi may have known, and must have suspected some of it. She was also bound by secrecy for whatever she did know about this. The political climate was corrosive for the Democrats in Congress. Now you or I may not find her inaction to be wholly admirable, but to equate it with the actions of those who ordered torture to be committed is tortured logic indeed.

[Toucano]

12. You are dead wrong.

Knowledge of a crime does not equate with culpability.

[Arkana]

17. Yeah this really doesn't take the actual TORTURERS off the hook either.

Enjoy your stay--I think it'll probably be short.

[madmom]

18. Liable for what? If a crime is committed you go after the perpetrator, IF there is

an accessory, THEN you go after them. But if you can't prove a crime how can someone be an accessory to it? Besides Nancy Pelosi gave NO orders, signed NO orders, tortured NO one!

[crikkett]

19. I remember Pelosi's actions.

.

Remember how Pelosi scorned and mocked her overwhelmingly anti-war constituency.
Remember how 'impeachment was off the table.'
Remember how we said, something is up. She's complicit somehow.
We were right.

The problem we have with Pelosi is that she was supposed to be representing us. She betrayed her district and all Democrats with her cowardice and lies.

[Caliman73]

24. Ok then that needs to be settled in the next election....

Right now, instead of helping the Republicans walk away from their crimes we need to investigate, try, and punish those who DEVISED the plan to torture, DIRECTED agents of the government and military to torture, and LIED us into war. After that is done, then we can clean house on who was complicit with the knowledge.

[crikkett]

26. She controls Congress' agenda. We're to let her continue to protect guilty Republicans and

promote their agenda? Continue to cover her tracks?

What, she's suddenly trustworthy now? She won't betray us anymore?

Why the hell do we need her? We have a fat majority in the House.

Is she gonna protect us from the terrrists or something?

[Caliman73]

27. We don't need her

Where did I say we need her? Instead of wasting our energy fighting about Pelosi we need to focus on what Cheney and Bush did. What we need to do is put pressure on all of our representatives to start investigating the people who actually planned and implemented the torture. This is a side show, a distraction and we are falling for it. I couldn't care less about Pelosi. I don't like her, never did. She is not the main problem. The torture and lies which took us to war with the Muslim world is the continuing problem. Solve that first, then we can beat each other up about which Democrat we support.

[crikkett]

29. I'm not beating anyone up. I disagree that Pelosi isn't the main problem.

For two years she controlled Congress' agenda of NOT pursuing investigations and impeachment. She *caused* what you identify as the main problem. Just look back a year and a half at the anti-Pelosi threads with 200 recs and hundreds of angry smilies... I've been waiting for the day when she's called out.

The distraction in my mind is not the attack on Pelosi, but this call for solidarity in spite of it all, these threads trying to persuade us to continue to support someone who betrayed us simply because she's a Democrat, to hold our own to a lower standard than we would hold our political opponents.

If you don't *care* about her one way or the other, then why be upset at calls for her to step down?

And again, the fact that I disagree with you does not mean I'm beating you or anyone else up. In fact, I don't think my disagreement with you will have any effect on anything except perhaps, getting myself flagged as a loudmouth who doesn't fall for distractions.

[Caliman73]

30. ok don't get all martyr with me

I am certainly not going to flag you although I do not appreciate you assigning me with emotions I am not feeling. I am not upset with people calling for Pelosi to step down. I have no loyaty for anyone who breaks the law or who doesn't do their job. Your responses to me point to "all or nothing" thinking. As I said if you have been reading, we need to investigate the major players first, then the others. Some one had an analogy that I felt was pretty valid. If someone is robbing banks and tells another person that they are going to do it or are doing it, should the police arrest the bank robber or focus on the person who was told about it and did not tell the police?

Answer that question honestly and then tell me why Pelosi should be first.

[crikkett]

32. A better analogy would be

if someone robs a bank and another person gives them refuge or helps them escape, should the police arrest the bank robber or focus on the person who is known to have harbored a fugitive?

My answer is that the police/DA should pursue justice against both.

I submit that in this case, there's enough manpower to investigate and punish both Pelosi's and Bush/Cheney's wrongdoings.

The problem may really be whether there's enough air time for cable news to cover it.

Pelosi should be first because she can still obstruct justice from her position of power.

To paraphrase Kucinich in his support of (Bush's and Cheney's) impeachment some months ago, the first priority must be to stop more harm from being done.

[DatManFromNawlins]

35. And then he would be an accessory

Funny how that works.

[Vidar]

3. That about sums it up.

[opihimoimoi]

6. No Doubt...the Bullies are good in framing, distorting, and distracting..

They may have stepped on her dick however....she is Pissed....she will fight and will fight tooth and nail....

[Optical.Catalyst]

8. The Republicans trashed the country for eight years while Bush is in office

Now we hold majorities in the House, the Senate, and we hold the Executive Branch. It is clear who the Republicans are and how they operate.

The Republicans in Congress need to be crushed and locked out of all legislation. There is no compromise with a repuke, they will use any opening they get to wound us. Our only option to save this country is expedite the demise of the Republican Party.

[malaise]

9. Ask CSpin!

It's day two of bash Nancy.

[Toucano]

11. Right on!

It's the media creating a "scandal" and ignoring an authentic one.

[Catshrink]

13. The Republicans greatest skill is diversion.

They've diverted the discussion of torture to Pelosi (what did she know, when did she know it...). And of course so much more. They're leaders are nothing but sideshows (Rush, Palin, Boner, etc. and now Miss Carrie) that become the story and the MSM forget to cover the issues.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. I think people will always be hardest on their own.

We had a hunch that Pelosi was trying to block information that would reveal she knew more than she let on. So, now that it was confirmed, people just went ballistic. She is in a position of leadership and she's blocking the truth.

The irony is, that I believe Bob Graham. Bob Graham is the original Twitter man. He writes down every mundane thing he does in a journal. It's almost obsessive compulsive behavior. So, I would judge Pelosi, based on Graham's information. Also, Graham wasn't comfortable with anything the Bushadministration was doing. His reaction was more in line with what I would expect a man of conscience would do.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. I agree with all but the first sentence of your last paragraph: "Damn they are good."

No. They are not good. They use the same playbook over and over and over. And WE KEEP FALLING FOR IT.

They are not that good.

**We** are pathetic.

How long until we stop falling for it?

[flvegan]

16. When you fumble every kick, you're always on defense.

That should be our party motto.

[Wednesdays]

20. K&R

:kick:

[and-justice-for-all]

28. OOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!

That is no shit, but leave it to the M$M to fuck it all up. They do not say shit about Dickhead, but Nancy fumbles a little and they want Salem Witch Trials.

[Iggo]

31. I knew about it. You knew about it. Kill us!!!! (n/t)

[DU GrovelBot]

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[bertman]

34. I tire of hearing the excuse put forth that Rep. Pelosi had no recourse but keep quiet about

being told that BushCo was about to use OR was using enhanced interrogation techniques. That is patently false.

She was only prevented from revealing the classified information, if any, she was given.

What she could have done, but did not do, was go public saying that she had been informed that the Bushies were about to embark upon, or had already embarked upon, an illegal and immoral foray that would bring disgrace to our nation. Of course, that simple statement of fact would have caused a firestorm of media recrimination and Republican accusations of her lack of patriotism and her treachery. But, it would also have put BushCo on notice and let the American people know that the Democratic leadership would not tolerate our nation stooping to such tactics.

Since she chose not to do anything except sit back and wait, she abdicated her responsibility to uphold the laws and the Constitution of the United States. What her motives were we may never know. What we do know is that it's come back to bite our nation in a big way.