Third-Grader Organizes Gay Marriage Rally

[Roon]

DENVER -- A Denver third-grader will be front and center at the Colorado State Capitol Saturday pushing for same sex marriage in the state.

Ethan McNamee arranged the rally as an independent class project.

He was concerned about the issue after hearing about anti-gay remarks on the playground and then learning about a same sex couple in his neighborhood that couldn't get married.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/politics/19475925/detail.html

[Forkboy]

1. And on that uplifting news of a wonderful child...

..I'm going to try to get some sleep for the first time in 60+ hours.

Thanks for sending me off on a good note. :toast:

And cheers to Ethan. :hug:

[Heidi]

2. Go, Ethan!

:thumbsup:

Recommended.

:kick:

[LARED]

3. Somehow I think 3rd graders should not

be arranging rallies around this sort of thing. This is not a proper role for 9 year olds.

[Heidi]

5. Why not? He was offended by homophobic slurs he heard on the playground.

It is my opinion that he has every right to combat those slurs by peaceful means.

[LARED]

7. I'm not talking about his rights, I believe we should let children

be children. Adults should not be propping them up to make political statements.

He has every right to be upset by school yard slurs, but staging rallies is not appropriate for 9 year olds.

[Heidi]

8. Huh. I guess I'm more concerned about his peers using homophobic slurs.

As I asked you before, why don't you think staging a rally is an appropriate activity for a nine-year-old?

[LARED]

13. Because

nine year old boys should be figuring out how to best catch frogs (or something like that) and not be involved in controversial political issues.

A third grader does not have the capacity to fully understand the implications of staging a political rally. Nor does he understand or have the capacity to fully understand the issue he is involved in. It makes a good news story, but needlessly puts a child in a position they can't understand, and have no business being involved with.

Would you be so supportive if a nine years old was staging a right to life rally? Or a rally that supported a gay marriage ban? A pro second amendment rally?

I know I would not, as those are not issues 8 or 9 year olds should be involved with. They should be doing children's stuff.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. All you are saying is that all kids should be as you wish

and as you were. When I was that age, the pursuits you mention were of no interest to me at all. People are not all alike, at any age. Some kids that age are reading complex adult materials, others are not really reading anything they are not forced to read. Some follow sports, and as adults they continue this love of playground games. Others could not care less about playing with balls and sticks, not in childhood nor later in life.
All you are saying is that you think children should be forced to conform to someone's ideal of what a child is. As if all children were the same, which they are not, any more than adults are all the same.

[LARED]

22. Are actually trying to make the case

that a 8 or 9 year old has the capacity to understand the political, social, and individual issues surrounding gay marriage, and that his rally in some way will be used as something other than a political prop?

There are reasons children are not allowed to vote, not allowed to drink, or drive, or make important decisions about others or themselves for that matter.

I'm' am not saying children should conform to my ideal of what childhood should be. I am saying adults should tell 9 year old children that staging political rallies at the state capital is not an appropriate activity for them.

[Heidi]

23. Adults' time would be better spent rooting homophobic hate speech out of Ethan's school.

Would you have suggested 50 years ago that an eight- or nine-year-old could not understand the political, social and individual issues surrounding segregation or other forms of discrimination? Do you honestly think kids don't notice this stuff?

[LARED]

28. I think kids notice those things, I don't

think they fully understand the political, social and individual issues. I don't think they have the capacity. And I don't mean the intelligence, I mean their experience.

[Heidi]

31. I noticed those things, and in my family, discrimination is kind of a legacy.

I grew up knowing that my grandparents were a mixed race couple who were treated as social outcasts in their little town and how my mom and her sisters also were treated like dirt, and that there was a time in my state when it would have been illegal for my grandparents to marry, despite the fact they loved one another and hurt no one else. Kids don't have to be aware of the full spectrum of "political, social and individual issues" that our culture faces; learning that stuff is, I suppose part of learning and growing up.

However, once a kid has witnessed hateful acts and heard hateful speech, that's a bell that can't (and probably shouldn't) be un-rung. I see absolutely no reason why Ethan shouldn't be able to express his disappointment in a marriage law that impacts the lives of gay neighbors he knows and respects.

Maybe you could spell out for the rest of us what those pressing "political, social and individual issues" that you keep referring to are exactly, because I can't think of a single political, social or individual issue that would mitigate this kid's right to act on his conscience -- or our GLBT friends' right to be married.

[LARED]

35. I agree with you, my point is that

Ethan's parents should not have allowed him to express himself by staging a rally at the State Capital. There are plenty other age appropriate ways for him to express himself.

[Are_grits_groceries]

24. I think he understands it more clearly

than most people. He isn't caught up in all the other issues. Ethan says that gay people are no different so they should be able to get married. That is it in a nutshell. It is the argument boiled down to its essence. He understands the heart, and that is enough.

[LARED]

26. And I agree with you that Ethan is correct

I don't agree that the adults should allow a nine year old to express his opinion on the matter by staging a political rally at the state capital.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. No case to be made. It is a fact that some kids

are not like you are painting them to be. I was not. I have given you specifics. Try this one on for size. When a 9 year old has already buried a few returning soldiers in their family, or already escaped from a repressive regime, fled with family under great duress, do you really think that child is the same as you and your kids, hunt'n frogs and goin' down to the general store to buy a bit of gingham for Mary Lou?
Do you think 9 year old Afghani boys are off playing hide and seek? Do you think 100% of their American couterparts are too cold and stupid to know how other children live, and see that as important?
Let me be clear again. I was politically active at that age. So were other kids I knew. There were no adults involved in our plans or in our protests. Not one. In fact, we had to keep them uninformed or they'd try to stop us. Props? How fucking dare you?
I know several 9 year olds who have gay parents. Yes. So you think they don't know about their parent's issues? Because that is hilarious.
So look, brighter kids will be as they are, even if you do not like it.

[LARED]

32. Wow how heavy are those goal posts anyway?

When I am discussing children from war torn and or repressive regimes, I'll be sure to give you a call.

Again, I don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand. My point is the little Ethan's parents should have not allowed him to plan a rally at the state Capital. It is inappropriate to toss a child into that arena. No matter how precocious they might be. There are many other ways they could have ALLOWED Ethan to express himself.

I'm sure you will disagree, but parent have a responsibility to their children. They set the rules, and the boundaries.

[Bluenorthwest]

36. You feel you have the right to dictate how others should

behave, and also how they raise their children. You missed the point, in that while you might not be talking about children from war and repression, but that does not mean those kids do not exist, just because you are not acknowleging them. Some of my schoolmates had seen hell by that age. A few had already been the brunt of other people's bigotries themselves. So while the children of your dream life are in some golden bubble, that is not the fact of real world kids.
Children who are raised to speak their own minds grow up to be adults that do not need to imply that others do not think parents have responsibilities to children just because they do not wish to keep their kids in a box as you would. That line "I'm sure you will disagree...but parents have resposibilities" is just cheap and tawdry gameplaying. Nothing I have said implies that I think parents have no resposibilities to their children. So that implication is just mud being flung by a person who is having a hard time making a point that does not hold water.
Some kids are stupid like you think they all are I guess. No matter how many older kids on their street come back in body bags, they simply can not fathom death and war. Even when they have seen it fist hand, they should not be allowed to speak about it.
You want to parent other people's kids. But guess what? You just get to complain about them here. Must be really frustrating!

[LARED]

38. You seem to have a lot of issues

unrelated to my point. Perhaps children from war torn counties or countries with repressive dictators are very concerned about the gay marriage issue. Somehow, I doubt it, but frankly, I don't know how they feel about the issue, nor is it germane to my point. Something you seem to completely miss.

You seem to also completely miss the point that I am expressing my opinion in the same way you are, so stop your bullshitting about my motives. I am not dictating to anyone how to raise their children. It’s cheap and tawdry game playing to use your words to imply that I am doing any such thing.

I simply believe Ethan's parent had better alternatives to allow him to express his views than allowing him to stage a rally at the state capital. That is not appropriate for a 9 year old. You apparently think it is appropriate. Bully for you.

Again, let me repeat myself. THIS IS MY OPINION; I AM NOT TRYING TO FORCE THIS OPINION ON ANYONE. THIS IS KNOWN AS FREE SPEECH. SOMETHING YOU SEEM TO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH. You are free to disagree with me.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. So it is your opinon

and compared to facts from my life, I do not agree at all. I don't think random people who don't know a specific child ahve any standing to speak about what is 'appropriate' for other people's kids.
My posts are there for people to read. I never said kids from war zones are concernd about 'gay marriage' as you call it. I said that such children are not seperate from the great issues of the world, and that many of them have lived through such things. Kids who have brothers and cousins being killed in a war that could draft them in just a few years are aware of that. And many back in my day wanted to stop that from happening to us.
When Bush One invaded Iraq, I was with a friend and her kid who was 10 I think. When Mom went to the bathroom, the child turned to me and asked if I knew how to build a good disguise. "What for?" I asked. He said " I'm too young right now, but I don't want them to take you or my dad or me when I get older. So we have to sneak into Canada. You could wear a fake beard."
He did not even want his Mom to know how worried he was. He was trying to become a man. He was becoming a man. He wanted to protect the men in his life and himself as well. Fake beards, but don't tell Mom till we are ready to go.
Just saying. Later when I told his folks that story, they both cried for the depth of their son's feelings. The mind of a child.

[Heidi]

17. Whether you and I like it or not, extremists use their kids for political purposes ALL THE TIME.

Did you see something in the link at the OP to indicate this child was guided or pushed by adults to organize the rally? I didn't see anything like that. What I saw was every indication this little boy was bright enough to put two and two together and come up with the cogent analysis that the homophobic slurs he heard from his peers are hurtful to people he cares about (the gay neighbors who can't marry due to Colorado's marriage laws). Perhaps you're not giving Ethan enough credit for being able to observe the world around him, draw his own conclusions and act accordingly, and that's more than can be said for fundy families I've seen _using_ children to make a statement.

[crikkett]

46. What about the little girls and boys who raise money for New Orleans or homeless puppies?

They make the news too.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. You are not the boss of that child

Nor were you the boss of me and my class when we were his age. We staged a sit in. Adults propping us up? HA! Try adults having cows trying to get us to come back to class, sputtering when given a clear list of demands, starting with administration people coming to talk to us.
We went on for hours. Men with suits had to stand and plead with wee tiny kids. We made a compromise that stands at that school until this day.
Kids are not idiots. We saw a sit in on TV, and it looked like a good way to go. It was. Adult arrogance like yours is just smug stupidity, fear of physically smaller but actually larger minds. Run! Empowered 9 year olds!

[LARED]

14. Sounds like the adminstration of the school was told how to behave

by a bunch of children. Clearly they were unfit.

That does not change the principle that children should be treated like children and not small adults.

[Heidi]

19. Administrators are not always right. Ethan's administrators enable homophobia

and homophobic hate speech. Sounds like he -- not the administrators in his school -- is the one behaving as a compassionate, responsible human being.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Oh how we alter the goal posts

So our protest worked as well as an adult one, made all by our selves, and so that means the administration was bad? How hilarious?
What would you have done with 63 kids sitting in a field refusing to move? Get the police to make sure those kids acted like kids? Use tear gas? What? Tell me.
You are saying that children should be treated like your image of what children 'ought to be' not as the individuals that they are. You want to force kids into a tight box, marked 'kid stuff'. Many, many children of that age are very aware of the lives of their age peers in other places. That knowlege makes silly games look like silly games.

[Heidi]

21. TAZERS!!! Rubber bullets!!! Batons!!!

Put those presumptious little bastids in their place. :sarcasm:

(I agree with all of your posts in this thread, Bluenorthwest. :thumbsup: )

[Bluenorthwest]

40. Thanks

I'm talking about my personal experience and actual facts. I've dealt with folks who don't like kids to have minds ever since I was a kid with a mind. It comes with the territory. They all have the same routine about control and 'what I'd allow' and all of that. I knew kids with parents like that when I was younger. I'd not change places with any of them.

[LARED]

25. No one moved any goal posts, except you

What would I have done. After explaining to the children I would simply have called every one of those kids parents explained that they need to pick up little Johnnie or Mary at school immediately because they were being suspended for a week.

No one said children ought not to be treated as individuals, no one is recommending children be forced into a tight box. What I am saying is children are not adults, they should not be treated as adults.

Parent should have authority over their children (in normal situations), schools should have authority over the activities in the school. If the kids want to protest like adults I'm ok with that as long as they are ready to take the consequence's like adults.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. Well that is pretty much how it went down

The called and threatened suspensions of 9 year olds. Then a few parents came who could not get their kids to move without force. Then a couple of other parents came who sat down with us-because we were correct- and then came the parent who knew the rules that the board and administration were breaking, rules that if enforced would have cost jobs. Yes. They lost. To a bunch of kids who drew attention to what was going on. The school called parents, it is just that not all parents rush to agree with the school. Many listen to their own kids. Some even pull out the code and go to town on our behalf, which was also, by the way, not just our interest, but as it turned out it was a shady real estate deal. A board member lost their seat for trying to do what we stopped.
Sorry you don't like how I was raised. Or how Ethan is being raised. I'd say just mind your own business, raise yours as you'd like and have done with it.

[LARED]

39. Well good for you

It worked. I will say that I think this issue we are discussing is different that what happened at your school. If the administration was breaking the rules then it is good that the children held them accountable and the parents backed the up once the facts were known.

But when a nine year old is allowed to jump in the fray of a hot national political topic with strong feelings on both sides. I just believe it not at the place for a 9 year old. Most likely nothing will come of this rally, but there are potentially serious risks in allowing this that are fine for an adult to take on, but not for a child.

[Bluenorthwest]

42. Yep. The kids were right. Our protest was good

and self directed and sucessful. Ethan is not likely to have such quick results, but that still does not mean he should not be standing up for people he cares about. Maybe adults will stand with him too, once they know the facts. He's correct in his position, as we were, and motivated by personal connnection to the issue, like we were.
He's as free as his parents wish him to be. They are his parents. So what you 'just believe' is not really important. Lots of people believe all kinds of things. They speak about what they call 'acceptable' as if not accepting it makes it vanish. Unacceptable means you can not accept it, not that it should not be. Just as you can not accept that children can protest freely and sucessfully even when given direct stories...well that one does not count, becasue it worked, and the point is that they don't work!

[Deja Q]

9. Agreed, but at the same time

Where were administrators babysitting during recess to tell the kids that slurring is not tolerated. (Doesn't matter WHY or for whom, slurring is wrong and has no place in society. Isn't a society judged by how it treats its own, or something to that effect?)

[Heidi]

11. I agree with that.

I also know that children repeat much of what they hear at home from bigoted parents. When kids hear hate speech at home, we shouldn't be surprised when they repeat it on the playground.

[The Straight Story]

27. if he was protesting gay marriage people would be agreeing with you

And saying it was his church or parents putting him up to it.

9 year old kids can only think for themselves when they agree with us :)

[LARED]

30. Thanks -

[Heidi]

34. In my case, you couldn't be more mistaken.

( :) )

[LARED]

41. So how do you explain this ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5665711&mesg_id=5666173

Perhaps you're not giving Ethan enough credit for being able to observe the world around him, draw his own conclusions and act accordingly, and that's more than can be said for fundy families I've seen _using_ children to make a statement.

As disagreeable as those attitudes may be I'm sure they think they are correct and parents that allow their children to stage rally about gay marriage are extremists.

[Heidi]

45. I don't need to explain it. There NO EVIDENCE the adults in Ethan's circle put him up to anything.

Listen, bubba, I was raised Southern Baptist in Oklahoma, Arkansas and Kentucky. I've seen extremist parents saddling three-year-olds with "pro-life" sandwich boards and sending them out to protest at family planning clincis. I'm sure they think they were correct, and if that's how they wanna be, I can live with it.

But until you can show a single shred of evidence than Ethan is being similarly manipulated, I'm just gonna consider the source, and you are the source of no evidence to the contrary. Pffffffffft.

[TexasObserver]

4. good kid

[Flubadubya]

6. Wait until the fundies get wind of this. I can just hear it now...

"See I told you those amoral homosexuals have an agenda. This is just proof of it. See, they've already recruited a third grader to do their nasty bidding. We've got to put a stop these queers!" :puke:

[Heidi]

10. He seems like a bright kid. Maybe he's in it for the toaster.

:eyes:

ETA: The fundies couldn't possibly entertain the notion that a child might have a conscience, yet on the other hand extremism's very future depends upon guilting children into believing they're sinners.

[Arkana]

43. It's sad that they're so predictable

because I'm in complete agreement with you that this will be their argument. "Them QUEERS has brainwashed an innocent child!"

EDIT: Hey! 10000 posts. How about that.

[Starry Messenger]

15. I have a lot of hope about the upcoming generations.

:thumbsup:

[Echo In Light]

18. Despite how jaded a hue the world can take on, I do too when I hear something like this

Outstanding that such a young child is already in an activist minded approach. K&R

[DU GrovelBot]

33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##

This week is our second quarter 2009 fund drive.
Donate and you'll be automatically entered into our daily contest.
New prizes daily!



No purchase or donation necessary. Void where prohibited. Click here for more information.